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Covid Vaccine

Troglodyte said:
Strange that whenever the CDC changed its guidelines, it wasn’t “the science changed” it was “they lied to us!”.
Click to expand...

Correct. Changing guidelines is vastly different than evolving science. You said it yourself. They changed "guidelines."

CDC:
Do not wear masks. Ineffective.
Wear masks now, everywhere.
Stop wearing masks.
Wear them again.
Mandate masks.
Masks had nothing to do with Covid spread.
Put the damn masks back on.

THAT is not science changing. Flip-flopping positions on guidelines is not science evolving.

Science changing or evolving would be ....I don't know...a pharma developing a true vaccine that actually prevented Covid spread and kept people from dying? That would be an evolution (an advancement) from the current "shots" we give everyone.
 
oneforthebus said:
I really don't get this line of thinking. Natural immunity may wane over time. Therefore it is essential that you get the vaccine right away cause....oh uh vaccine immunity also wanes over time.
Click to expand...

Vaccines are an incredibly important tool for protecting the vulnerable - elderly, Type 1 diabetics, those with compromised immune systems - and a tremendous advantage for all in terms of lowering the severity of the symptoms from a disease made in a Chinese lab and released on the world by China. (We need to say the last part EVERY TIME we discuss SARS-Cov2 or we will soon forget who caused this - most on the left in fact refuse to acknowledge that fact.)

However, the very effective treatment options for the Chinese flu, like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, must also be highlighted and discussed as much as the vaccine-that's-not-a-vaccine. Why are effective, safe, affordable treatment options not being touted??

Third, vaccine mandates are an affront to our rights as Americans. If you are concerned about the Chinese flu, get the vaccine and you're protected, or so we are told. Why is it your business that somebody else runs a risk? "Because they can infect me." Wait, you have the vaccine - how will they infect you? "Because the vaccine does not protect me from getting infected." Then how does forcing them to get the vaccine protect you from getting the Chinese flu, since you can both still get the Chinese flu?

Fourth, the politicization of the Chinese flu - labeling those who decline the vaccine as "anti-vaxxers" when making a decision about a non-vaccine vaccine means nothing about vaccines in general, calling those who are unvaccinated "Trumpists" when the evidence completely refutes the claim, segregating based on vaccination status, punishment for refusing the vaccine - is abhorrent. Seriously, if you cannot see the devastation wrought by these vaccine apartheid measures, you are suffering the logical fallacy known as "willful ignorance."
 
oneforthebus said:
I really don't get this line of thinking. Natural immunity may wane over time. Therefore it is essential that you get the vaccine right away cause....oh uh vaccine immunity also wanes over time.
Click to expand...

It's like now it's a race.

If both wane over time....
And hypothetically your natural immunity lasts you 36 months...
And the vaccine wanes after 4-6 months...

Ummm...nevermind.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
It's like now it's a race.

If both wane over time....
And hypothetically your natural immunity lasts you 36 months...
And the vaccine wanes after 4-6 months...

Ummm...nevermind.
Click to expand...
yOuRe JuSt TrYnA GiT ErRyOnE kIlLeD!!!!
 
madinsomniac said:
Tested cases.. you continue to utterly ignore the reality that the vast majority of cases show no symptoms so the people never get tested… or that vaccinated people do not have to be tested under many policies so cases are more likely to be missed…
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Fair enough. At it’s Delta peak, Vermont had .32 Covid deaths per 100k, Florida had 1.71. The vaccines work.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
So you're saying the vaccines don't work ESPECIALLY with the most at risk group?

Or you're saying the vaccine really just works on the young - who are not at risk from the virus?

Do you even know what your platform is anymore?
Click to expand...
So you’re saying co-morbidity was only relevant to Covid deaths BEFORE the vaccine? And you’re not anti-vax? Right?
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
It's like now it's a race.

If both wane over time....
And hypothetically your natural immunity lasts you 36 months...
And the vaccine wanes after 4-6 months...

Ummm...nevermind.
Click to expand...



It's all about control,fear and truckloads of 💰 🤑 💸 💲 🪙 💶 💰.


So many great alternatives to sticking that **** in your body, it's downright criminal the suppression I'm seeing.
 
Huh. Odd how this tidbit from a tiny nation known as "India," with a population barely over a billion people, has basically been ignored.

Remember how India was being crushed by the Delta variant? India responded not only with the vaccine - now less doses administered than the total number of people in the country, i.e., on average less than one dose per resident - but also implemented widespread Ivermectin + Doxycycline (an antibiotic) use to treat patients infected with the Chinese flu.

www.theblaze.com

Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state has been averaging only 24 cases...
www.theblaze.com www.theblaze.com

The result? India has seen a MASSIVE drop in mortality due to the Chinese flu. How low? As of October 5, 2021 a seven-day average of 255 deaths per day in a nation of more than a billion people.


ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards
www.arcgis.com www.arcgis.com

So I am interested in a possible explanation other than the widespread use of Ivermectin + Doxycycline on infected patients. Seriously, let's try and figure this out.

Because India is less densely populated than the United States? Uhh, no.

Because India has better sanitation than the United States? Yeah, no.

Because India has better healthcare than the United States? Uhh, no, no, no.

Because India has a higher number of vaccinated than the United States? Yeah, no, not even close. India has 18.6% fully vaccinated, not even a third of the total in the United States


So what gives? Seriously, why is the mortality rate in a densely populated, generally filthy nation with an incredibly low vaccination rate so low?

Other than Ivermectin + Doxycycline, I mean, since the WHO told us Ivermectin was not to be used to treat the Chinese flu.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
"The vaccines aren't waning." -- /Floggy

Vermont's Dept of Health makes you a liar, again.

Rate of new cases by vaccination status​

View attachment 6606

The vaccines wane faster than you shift positions.
Click to expand...
Again you share a graph that shows the vaccine’s effectiveness. Vermont is 68.7% vaccinated but, according to your graph, were only 18% of cases on 9/18. So… the vaccinated are 9.68 times less likely to get infected.

You clearly don’t understand science, quit trying to use it in your favor. How many times are you going to suffer the same humiliation?
 
Troglodyte said:
So you’re saying co-morbidity was only relevant to Covid deaths BEFORE the vaccine? And you’re not anti-vax? Right?
Click to expand...

LMAO...as you love to say...."strawman"

The hardest hit part of population by Covid = the elderly
The vast majority of people who die from Covid that are vaccinated = the elderly

Children are immune to Covid. The young are basically as well. It's really not that deadly for those 50 and under.

Yet growing evidence shows as the vaccines RAPIDLY wane, they do less and less and less to save the lives the vaccine was designed to save.

And now you're making excuses for the vaccines.
 
Troglodyte said:
“Science never changing” would be calling Covid “the flu”.

Strange that whenever the CDC changed its guidelines, it wasn’t “the science changed” it was “they lied to us!”.
Click to expand...
I mean ive been saying and posting things about the cdc ignoring new science on aerosol physics until the past few months … thats not even in dispute… they did it, then even after they acknowledged it they still haven’t retrofitted their mask policies or the Ro numbers to accommodate that newer science


The cdc likes to pick and choose what they focus on…

A (deeply flawed observational) study in Canada declared 4 layered cloth masks 99% effective against the Rona and got published everywhere… two weeks later using a different and more recent study from the same canadian science group, they declared non fit tested masks less than ten percent effective … but got virtually no notice from the cdc.. or National media…

Now hey, the scientist in me says this is easily resolved with a controlled test… find a water soluble particulate at the smaller end of the size of respiratory aerosols that covid is carried on… the best case is probably a misted liquid

Get two sets of glass filer holder with frits, an impinger bucket with a typical wet chemistry moisture setup… fill the first impinger with a couple hundred milliliters of water then cut a sample of mask material to sit snug in the filter holder… attach the mask sample in the filter holder to the first impinger

Connect that system to a meter box with flow meters and pressure guages and set it to replicate human inhalation rates and pressures

Attach the back of the other filter holder with a sample of a mask material in it to a misting machine with a traceable chemical in it

Set the apparatus’s neck height six feet away from each other

Mist an enclosed area for a set amount of time then analyze the water filled impinger to se the rate of breakthrough

You still would have to calculate leakage from around the mask, but thats an already known quantity

This could be repeated say 9 to ten times for each material for set timeframes… say at 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, and 3 hours to determine safety and risks for material and design specific masks…

This would be better science than the observational crap they roll with
Troglodyte said:
Fair enough. At it’s Delta peak, Vermont had .32 Covid deaths per 100k, Florida had 1.71. The vaccines work.
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I have never disputed the effectiveness of the vaccines to reduce death … I do not believe theyvreduse cases for very long and I absolutely think they can hasten the evolution of variants as their effectiveness wanes…

I worry about long term effects among younger people not at high risk

The deaths from this virus are mostly people who were going to die vaxxed or not… it wouldn’t surprise me if tge majority of vaccinated deaths from covid were people on the edge of even being allowed to get the vaccine… much like the lions share of the unvaccinated deaths are people so far gone they cannot be vaccinated… there are outliers on either side… but I've gone over all of that before
 
Troglodyte said:
Fair enough. At it’s Delta peak, Vermont had .32 Covid deaths per 100k, Florida had 1.71. The vaccines work.
Click to expand...

1633534267726.png

How are those rube, under-vaxed states first hit by Delta doing? MO, LA, AR, MS, GA, FL, Texas, etc?

Indeed Delta moved north. And now your NE states have hospitals full and rising cases and deaths among the vaxed.

The vaccines work like a charm.

The map also shows, there is no correlating vaxes and Covid so far. MN getting slammed at essentially the same vaxed rate as FL, with a younger population to boot.
 
Troglodyte said:
Again you share a graph that shows the vaccine’s effectiveness. Vermont is 68.7% vaccinated but, according to your graph, were only 18% of cases on 9/18. So… the vaccinated are 9.68 times less likely to get infected.

You clearly don’t understand science, quit trying to use it in your favor. How many times are you going to suffer the same humiliation?
Click to expand...

The debate is "vaccine effectiveness is waning." It is waning. You deny it is. Despite the State itself acknowledging...it is.

While the vaccines help, they help less over time as the graph provided by the State of VT shows. They (the State of VT) themselves used the word "alarming" in describing the trend. They note they are seeing an increase in cases and more concerning, deaths among the vaccinated. All the reports I showed you previously from the state and the NE region echo the same.

"Vaccinated Vermonters have accounted for roughly 64% of the deaths reported since July 29....unvaccinated Vermonters are still dying from Covid at a slightly higher rate than vaccinated Vermonters, by a factor of about 1.2."
Click to expand...

Odd, that statement yes? Before it was 99% of deaths are among the unvaxed. "It is a pandemic of the unvaxed!". Now...deaths in VT are almost even between the vaxed and unvaxxed.

But you, you stand alone in saying, despite the State and the media all saying it's "alarm" time and the trends are of great concern...that the vaccines are working as advertised.

In May, the vaxed were 6.4% of cases. Now they are @20% of cases.

200w.webp
 
Last edited:
Tim Steelersfan said:
View attachment 6608

How are those rube, under-vaxed states first hit by Delta doing? MO, LA, AR, MS, GA, FL, Texas, etc?

Indeed Delta moved north. And now your NE states have hospitals full and rising cases and deaths among the vaxed.

The vaccines work like a charm.

The map also shows, there is no correlating vaxes and Covid so far. MN getting slammed at essentially the same vaxed rate as FL, with a younger population to boot.
Click to expand...
yeah, but ... South Montana Community State had an outbreak in a Pygmy Dance Representation Class where everyone was vaccinated except for one person who didn't die.
/Flog
 
Steeltime said:
Huh. Odd how this tidbit from a tiny nation known as "India," with a population barely over a billion people, has basically been ignored.

Remember how India was being crushed by the Delta variant? India responded not only with the vaccine - now less doses administered than the total number of people in the country, i.e., on average less than one dose per resident - but also implemented widespread Ivermectin + Doxycycline (an antibiotic) use to treat patients infected with the Chinese flu.

www.theblaze.com

Horowitz: The unmistakable ivermectin miracle in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh might sound obscure to most Americans, but it is the most populated state in India, with urban areas that rival the most densely populated cities in the U.S. Yet, miraculously, despite housing a population of 240 million people, this northern state has been averaging only 24 cases...
www.theblaze.com www.theblaze.com

The result? India has seen a MASSIVE drop in mortality due to the Chinese flu. How low? As of October 5, 2021 a seven-day average of 255 deaths per day in a nation of more than a billion people.


ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards
www.arcgis.com www.arcgis.com

So I am interested in a possible explanation other than the widespread use of Ivermectin + Doxycycline on infected patients. Seriously, let's try and figure this out.

Because India is less densely populated than the United States? Uhh, no.

Because India has better sanitation than the United States? Yeah, no.

Because India has better healthcare than the United States? Uhh, no, no, no.

Because India has a higher number of vaccinated than the United States? Yeah, no, not even close. India has 18.6% fully vaccinated, not even a third of the total in the United States


So what gives? Seriously, why is the mortality rate in a densely populated, generally filthy nation with an incredibly low vaccination rate so low?

Other than Ivermectin + Doxycycline, I mean, since the WHO told us Ivermectin was not to be used to treat the Chinese flu.
Click to expand...

Horse paste for the win!
 

15 year-old California boy killed by Covid Vaccine…​

Posted by Kane on October 6, 2021 11:13 am

BREAKING: PRA’d Synopsis Report from Sonoma County Sheriff’s office reveals otherwise healthy 15 year old died in June from heart issues due to second Covid vaccine two days prior. Sonoma county has zero pediatric Covid deaths. Tragically, at least one vaccine related death.

Police in Sonoma County, California, are blaming Pfizer’s experimental mRNA jab for causing the sudden death of a Santa Rosa teen. The Sonoma County sheriff’s office report shows a determination was made by a medical examiner that the 15–year-old, who was found dead in his bedroom two days after his second jab, suffered “stress cardiomyopathy” and “coronary artery inflammation.”

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/15-year-old-california-boy-killed-by-covid-vaccine/
 
@Superman - I'll let you use this as you see fit.

1633535844231.png

Black Vermonters continue to have the highest cumulative Covid rate in the state, more than double the rate for white Vermonters, according to the department’s report. Asian, Hispanic and “other” Vermonters also reported elevated rates compared to white Vermonters.

They also reported the highest rate of cases within the past two weeks, according to the data. The case rate among white Vermonters is also rising, but not as fast.
Click to expand...
 
Neither the vaccine nor natural immunity are bulletproof against Covid, particularly the new strains.

Both the vaccine and some form of natural immunity help lessen your chances of catching it, getting sick or dying and spreading it to others.

Neither is foolproof, 100% guarantee for anything. You can have a breakthrough case and catch Covid fully vaccinated. You can also catch Covid having had natural immunity.

There are no guarantees, no assurances one way or another. Getting vaccinated and/or having natural immunity simply gives you a fighter's chance agains the virus.

Same with masks. Doesn't guarantee anything, simply a small measure that may slightly improve your chances of not contracting or spreading Covid. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thre are no absolutes here, one way or another. Anyone arguing right vs. wrong is simply wasting their breath.

Particularly since Covid has undergone numerous mutations over the past year and a half.

To this day, mitigation & vaccination, ideally combined with natural immunity, is the best way to lessen the spread, keep the virus from mutating and continuing to infect people.

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why this pandemic is causing so much bellyaching, navel-gazing and uncertainty. It's not that complicated, folks.
 
Tibs said:
Neither the vaccine nor natural immunity are bulletproof against Covid, particularly the new strains.

Both the vaccine and some form of natural immunity help lessen your chances of catching it, getting sick or dying and spreading it to others.

Neither is foolproof, 100% guarantee for anything. You can have a breakthrough case and catch Covid fully vaccinated. You can also catch Covid having had natural immunity.

There are no guarantees, no assurances one way or another. Getting vaccinated and/or having natural immunity simply gives you a fighter's chance agains the virus.

Same with masks. Doesn't guarantee anything, simply a small measure that may slightly improve your chances of not contracting or spreading Covid. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thre are no absolutes here, one way or another. Anyone arguing right vs. wrong is simply wasting their breath.

Particularly since Covid has undergone numerous mutations over the past year and a half.

To this day, mitigation & vaccination, ideally combined with natural immunity, is the best way to lessen the spread, keep the virus from mutating and continuing to infect people.

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why this pandemic is causing so much bellyaching, navel-gazing and uncertainty. It's not that complicated, folks.
Click to expand...
HOLY
****

Tibs saw the light

This is what we've been saying for ... checks page number ... 239.5 pages.
 
Tibs said:
To this day, mitigation & vaccination, ideally combined with natural immunity, is the best way to lessen the spread, keep the virus from mutating and continuing to infect people.
Click to expand...
200w.webp

200w.webp


Someone contact Coolie, Tibs' password has been stolen and someone else is posting as Tiblio.
 
Superman said:
the Left continues to play Covid politics

www.outkick.com

Washington State Not Mandating Vaccinations For Political Ally

Many blue states like Washington have made sweeping vaccine requirements as of late in an attempt to prove their dedication to public health. But reports
www.outkick.com www.outkick.com
Click to expand...

Of course, the healthcare workers part of a union that backed Inslee's election get an exemption DESPITE being in-home care for the elderly.

This is akin to Cuomo inserting Covid patients into nursing homes.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
LMAO...as you love to say...."strawman"

The hardest hit part of population by Covid = the elderly
The vast majority of people who die from Covid that are vaccinated = the elderly

Children are immune to Covid. The young are basically as well. It's really not that deadly for those 50 and under.

Yet growing evidence shows as the vaccines RAPIDLY wane, they do less and less and less to save the lives the vaccine was designed to save.

And now you're making excuses for the vaccines.
Click to expand...
Whatever, Tim. Keep on questioning the vaccine, celebrating whatever small victories you can. It’s really quite morbid of you.

www.smithsonianmag.com

Unvaccinated Individuals Are 11 Times More Likely to Die From Covid-19

Multiple CDC studies suggest that vaccines against Covid-19 remain highly effective against severe complications from the virus
www.smithsonianmag.com www.smithsonianmag.com
 
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