And that is how viruses have always been
Covid Vaccine
- Thread starter jitter77
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so are you against mandates? yes or no
not really… perfect vaccines actually fight off infection before it is transmit-able.. and don’t wear off for years if at all, thus effectively ending the illness for all real purposes… yeah animal reserves and mutations can sometimes bring them back, but you can for the most part eradicate them…
The issue is that these vaccines are rushed and imperfect… they don’t totally stop transmission in everyone or virtually everyone… and vaccinated people thinking they are safe are potentially transmitting it unknowingly because they feel like they are safe and rarely get tested with symptoms or contact…
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The flu is Clark Kent, Covid is Supermen
He has said why he got the vax. Earlier this year, he cared enough about the welfare of his older relatives he was visiting, so he got it reluctantly. He also said he was concerned about the effects of the vax. But took the risks for family.
You're obtuse intentionally.
Dance and prance son.
You made the specific claim that Trump did NOT tout Remdesiver as a potential therapeutic for Covid prior to getting Covid.
Once again, for the billionth time on this board, you have been proven wrong.
A sharp drop in flu cases during COVID-19 pandemic
Precautions taken to fight the COVID-19 pandemic, including wearing masks and distancing, are likely the major reason for a steep decline of flu cases in the U.S., according to experts. The Centers…www.hsph.harvard.edu
Amazing, is that not? I mean, we have been battling the flu documented since the late 1800s. All of the advancement of medicine and science has done nothing to eradicate it. It has plagued mankind for 140 years. 3 years ago, 80,000+ Americans died from the flu.
Then, in one year, it disappears. Quite literally gone. Because...masking and social distancing.
You really are that stupid.
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just think. These 2 selfish people were risking the lives of many unvaccinated people they contacted. And the vaccinated people.
The correct answer to the flu “disappearing” is again how we determine cases and deaths…
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC
CDC calculates estimates of disease burden in the United States using surveillance data and modeling to adjust for sources of under-detection. Burden estimates for the 2018-2019 season found here.
Here is a cdc report on the 18-19 flu estimates… notice tge end part where they talk about death certificates not being available so they used modeling to estimate numbers. They always do that with cases… if you look up lab confirmed cases and compare it against estimates its thousands of lab confirmed compared to millions of estimated cases
They aren’t hyping estimate cases for covid, which is nearing or over 200 million cases in the us by now…
But deaths they are using a ridiculous assumption that literally converts all of the flu deaths that don’t have a negative covid test and positive flu test to covid… tamping down flu deaths and exaggerating (covid) deaths… this is pretty standard for pandemics…
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Cute Tibs...
I believe the root cause of the hesitancy is that the jab has been proven it isnt a "vaccine".
I believe the root cause of the hesitancy is that the jab has been proven it isnt a "vaccine".
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The CDC knows that masks have little to no effect on flu transmission even in medical settings. That was settled science until Covid 1984, and the reason why there were never any mask mandates virtually anywhere -- even in the the worst years of the flu.
I support every one of those vaccines… and am only encouraging more less experimental covid vaccines to be used rather than the types we have illogically backed. The term antivaxer is being intentionally misused here. A covid vaccine is absolutely a great thing, but many of us want to simply diversify to minimize horrible long term illnesses potentially being uniformly distributed through the population…
If this was just a flu shot converted to covid, i’d already have it done
That, and Tiblio and the Left continue to make the broad brush assumptions.
Like, you're a Conservative, you're a racist.
You're a Conservative, you're all of the 'phobes (Islamaphobe, homophobe, etc)
If you object to these unproven, non-tested, experimental mRNA vaxes, you are an anti-vaxer in general.
Despite the majority of those opposing THESE supposed vaccines being people who have all gotten their other necessary vaccines.
We aren't any more anti-vaxxers than we are racists.
It's just the division that the Government and the media sows flowing down to their lemmings who follow the playbook strictly.
If Novavax was available, I'd get mine tomorrow.
They want to divide. Thus they label.
In less than 6 months CDC Director Rochelle Walensky goes from saying:
March 29, 2021: Vaccinated people don’t get sick
August 19: The Vaccinated face hospitalization and death if they don’t get a booster
March 29, 2021: Vaccinated people don’t get sick
August 19: The Vaccinated face hospitalization and death if they don’t get a booster
Karl Denninger again. Sound words.
Well, Duh. This Is Why It Was Stupid*
I warned everyone.
Now even CNN is on it, although they (like SAGE) think we're smarter than nature -- and evolution.
In a word: Duh.
I know I've been banging on this drum since Covid-19 started but it is no-less important today, especially in the context of holding people accountable for killing several hundred thousand Americans and the economic destruction they brought upon the nation.
To be sterilizing a vaccine must prevent infection. Since you never get infected you never replicate the virus and thus do not shed it. If you do not shed it the potential path of the viral life-cycle for that particular infection ends with you and thus you cannot pass on or cause a mutation. You are sterile against that disease; from the point of view of the virus you are a lifeless rock. Among commonly-used sterilizing vaccines are MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), Varicella (chicken pox), OPV (oral polio) and others. The only time that such a vaccine fails is when you do not build immunity (such as due to immune compromise.) This is extremely rare and the protection from such vaccines tends to be either decades-long or lifetime.
A vaccine that is not sterilizing permits the virus to infect you and replicate and as a result you can infect others. Technically it is not a vaccine at all (which by definition prevents infection); it is a prophylactic therapy. Such a "vaccine" instead acts to reduce or eliminate symptomatic disease. You don't know you're sick and you don't get sick. You don't go to the hospital and you don't die. Unfortunately since you don't know you're sick but are infected and the virus is both replicating in you and shedding you are more-likely to spread the infection to others. All of the current Covid jabs are in this category and so is, for that matter IPV (injected polio vaccine -- the original Salk discovery.)
During the original vaccine trials in the summer and fall of 2020 they deliberately did not test any of the recipients for asymptomatic infections. Only a person who developed a significant illness was tested. This has continued post roll-out with the CDC specifying that a close contact of a known case who was vaccinated did not need to quarantine or be tested until and unless they became symptomatic. They knew damn well, in other words, that the jabs were not sterilizing but did not want that data up for public debate because then those who have read history would be likely to make the connection to the present day and thus they did their level best to hide it. That has now blown up in their face with it being conclusively known that jabbed people in fact not only get infected but spread the virus to others.
The problem with non-sterilizing vaccines is simply this: There is no safe means of mass-use of non-sterilizing vaccines so long as transmission within the community does or is likely to exist.
Ever.
There are no exceptions.
This was known to public health officials and virologists seventy years ago and is why the United States used both IPV (injected polio vaccine) and OPV (oral polio vaccine) in sequence for polio until the 1990s. OPV produced sterilizing immunity but IPV did not. OPV had a very small (but non-zero, about 1 in a million) risk of causing polio because it was a codon-deoptimized live virus which, on rare occasion, would mutate back to its virulent form in the human body. So to mitigate that risk you got IPV first in the US (to prevent systemic infection; this was non-sterilizing), then OPV which is sterilizing -- that is, it prevents not only getting sick from polio but also replicating and shedding the virus, thus giving it to others along with preventing the promotion of mutations that WILL eventually escape the vaccine.
Had we done with polio what we're doing now with Covid -- IPV (non-sterilizing) use only with virus circulating in the United States -- it is very likely the virus would have mutated, escaped the vaccine and killed millions in America. Every single so-called expert knows damn well why we didn't do that with polio and how dangerous it is to attempt it. Indeed where polio still circulates but money is scarce they use OPV only (which is sterilizing) and accept the risk of the rare but possible active case it can cause for this exact reason.
Again: This is not a "new idea"; it was in fact the only rational path of action and known decades ago, forming the very basis of our polio vaccination strategy. This combination strategy was necessary for polio but not for measles, for example, as the measles vaccine is sterilizing.
ONLY A STERILIZING VACCINE IS SAFE TO USE ON A MASS POPULATION BASIS WHEN A PARTICULAR PATHOGEN IS CIRCULATING IN THE ENVIRONMENT.
THIS IS NOT THEORY -- IT IS DECADES-OLD KNOWN MEDICAL FACT.
In addition natural infection with Covid-19 is sterilizing. Being infected and recovering conserves the nasal and respiratory mucosal response which is where the virus enters the body. Natural infection also conveys both "N" (nucleocapsid) and "S" (spike) antibody knowledge and T-cell recognition but the "N" knowledge is much stronger as coronaviruses have evolved to evade the immune system with the "S" portion through millions of years. This is why they can infect you in the first place. The "S" portion undergoes mutation at a quite-rapid rate while the "N" portion is conserved. It was thus expected that prior infection would lead to durable (years to decades) of resistance and indeed that's exactly what we have found thus far. Indeed in a small study it was found that this recognition extended to the bone marrow in a large percentage of cases and in those people is likely to confer decades-long if not lifetime protection. This is not true for "S" induced immunity as it wanes rapidly and, far worse that is where the mutation is taking place and thus where escape risk lies.
More in the link:
Well, Duh. This Is Why It Was Stupid*
I warned everyone.
Now even CNN is on it, although they (like SAGE) think we're smarter than nature -- and evolution.
In a word: Duh.
I know I've been banging on this drum since Covid-19 started but it is no-less important today, especially in the context of holding people accountable for killing several hundred thousand Americans and the economic destruction they brought upon the nation.
To be sterilizing a vaccine must prevent infection. Since you never get infected you never replicate the virus and thus do not shed it. If you do not shed it the potential path of the viral life-cycle for that particular infection ends with you and thus you cannot pass on or cause a mutation. You are sterile against that disease; from the point of view of the virus you are a lifeless rock. Among commonly-used sterilizing vaccines are MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), Varicella (chicken pox), OPV (oral polio) and others. The only time that such a vaccine fails is when you do not build immunity (such as due to immune compromise.) This is extremely rare and the protection from such vaccines tends to be either decades-long or lifetime.
A vaccine that is not sterilizing permits the virus to infect you and replicate and as a result you can infect others. Technically it is not a vaccine at all (which by definition prevents infection); it is a prophylactic therapy. Such a "vaccine" instead acts to reduce or eliminate symptomatic disease. You don't know you're sick and you don't get sick. You don't go to the hospital and you don't die. Unfortunately since you don't know you're sick but are infected and the virus is both replicating in you and shedding you are more-likely to spread the infection to others. All of the current Covid jabs are in this category and so is, for that matter IPV (injected polio vaccine -- the original Salk discovery.)
During the original vaccine trials in the summer and fall of 2020 they deliberately did not test any of the recipients for asymptomatic infections. Only a person who developed a significant illness was tested. This has continued post roll-out with the CDC specifying that a close contact of a known case who was vaccinated did not need to quarantine or be tested until and unless they became symptomatic. They knew damn well, in other words, that the jabs were not sterilizing but did not want that data up for public debate because then those who have read history would be likely to make the connection to the present day and thus they did their level best to hide it. That has now blown up in their face with it being conclusively known that jabbed people in fact not only get infected but spread the virus to others.
The problem with non-sterilizing vaccines is simply this: There is no safe means of mass-use of non-sterilizing vaccines so long as transmission within the community does or is likely to exist.
Ever.
There are no exceptions.
This was known to public health officials and virologists seventy years ago and is why the United States used both IPV (injected polio vaccine) and OPV (oral polio vaccine) in sequence for polio until the 1990s. OPV produced sterilizing immunity but IPV did not. OPV had a very small (but non-zero, about 1 in a million) risk of causing polio because it was a codon-deoptimized live virus which, on rare occasion, would mutate back to its virulent form in the human body. So to mitigate that risk you got IPV first in the US (to prevent systemic infection; this was non-sterilizing), then OPV which is sterilizing -- that is, it prevents not only getting sick from polio but also replicating and shedding the virus, thus giving it to others along with preventing the promotion of mutations that WILL eventually escape the vaccine.
Had we done with polio what we're doing now with Covid -- IPV (non-sterilizing) use only with virus circulating in the United States -- it is very likely the virus would have mutated, escaped the vaccine and killed millions in America. Every single so-called expert knows damn well why we didn't do that with polio and how dangerous it is to attempt it. Indeed where polio still circulates but money is scarce they use OPV only (which is sterilizing) and accept the risk of the rare but possible active case it can cause for this exact reason.
Again: This is not a "new idea"; it was in fact the only rational path of action and known decades ago, forming the very basis of our polio vaccination strategy. This combination strategy was necessary for polio but not for measles, for example, as the measles vaccine is sterilizing.
ONLY A STERILIZING VACCINE IS SAFE TO USE ON A MASS POPULATION BASIS WHEN A PARTICULAR PATHOGEN IS CIRCULATING IN THE ENVIRONMENT.
THIS IS NOT THEORY -- IT IS DECADES-OLD KNOWN MEDICAL FACT.
In addition natural infection with Covid-19 is sterilizing. Being infected and recovering conserves the nasal and respiratory mucosal response which is where the virus enters the body. Natural infection also conveys both "N" (nucleocapsid) and "S" (spike) antibody knowledge and T-cell recognition but the "N" knowledge is much stronger as coronaviruses have evolved to evade the immune system with the "S" portion through millions of years. This is why they can infect you in the first place. The "S" portion undergoes mutation at a quite-rapid rate while the "N" portion is conserved. It was thus expected that prior infection would lead to durable (years to decades) of resistance and indeed that's exactly what we have found thus far. Indeed in a small study it was found that this recognition extended to the bone marrow in a large percentage of cases and in those people is likely to confer decades-long if not lifetime protection. This is not true for "S" induced immunity as it wanes rapidly and, far worse that is where the mutation is taking place and thus where escape risk lies.
More in the link:
Well, Duh. This Is Why It Was Stupid
I warned everyone.Now even CNN is on it, although they (like SAGE) think we're smarter than nature -- and evolution.They write that some variants that have emerged over the past few months 'show a reduced susceptibility to vaccine-acquired immunity, though none appears to escape entirely.'But t
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Yep same here. I'm not sticking that mrna bullshit in me to **** up my own perfectly awesome immune system. Not going to happen. I don't do flu shots either. Don't need them.
I'll take the novavax.
The anti vax label is silly. I've had all of my vaccines.
So Congress and their staff are exempt from the mandate, because Pelosi says it should be a personal decision, but Navy Seals, likely the most fit and healthy humans on earth, face a dishonorable discharge if they don't get it.
Explain how this isn't a biased, political power grab?
Explain how this isn't a biased, political power grab?
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Im sure there are multiple groups taking advantage of the situation, but i still won’t believe that any of the vaccines are something completely scifi like tracking or mind control nonsense… I simply think that big pharma companies are doing what they do best… buying politicians to make a huge profit… which is scarier to me than the other two because these companies have been known to utterly disregard people’s welfare to make a buck as often as they need to…
If there were any of the second gen vaxes approved yet I’d just say the early unproven vaxes were a necessary evil for the older population, but now its getting obvious pfizer and the others are pushing an agenda with visions of billions dancing in their heads
If there were any of the second gen vaxes approved yet I’d just say the early unproven vaxes were a necessary evil for the older population, but now its getting obvious pfizer and the others are pushing an agenda with visions of billions dancing in their heads
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It's horseshit. It clearly shows what this is all about. Power&control. Make the peasants bend to your will. You are BELOW these people.
You will do as we tell you or we will **** your life up and we have the power to do it.
It damn sure isn't about protecting people. If they wanted to help everyone they'd all resign.
For mutations of viruses isn’t that just something like allergies? They are not fully eradicated but are not as severe if caught.
I feel covid is nothing more than the common cold. It’s the media portrayal of it that has people in a frenzy
Nah its more severe than a typical cold or flu but it isn’t as severe as the Spanish flu much less actual Sars or ebola or any of the really scary stuff… its definitely super contagious so it will probably burn itself out as soon as people quit doing lockdowns..
If the flu death rate is going to be .002% this is at .006% or so, but unlike most flus it affects virtually nobody under 20 severely, and really few people under 45. Its very bad for the extremely elderly and ill because its almost impossible to know who has it, so its easy to spread to people who usually are sheltered from illnesses that might affect their o2 intake
Gotcha