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Does Israel have a right to exist? Whats your solution?

Wow... Steel Vanguard.

You have gone completely off the reservation. You sound like me talking about Michael Vick. If you yell "****" enough, it does make you feel better... I know from experience.
 
Wow... Steel Vanguard.

You have gone completely off the reservation. You sound like me talking about Michael Vick. If you yell "****" enough, it does make you feel better... I know from experience.

I love everybody. I mean that ****. I love everybody.

"We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalianable rights, among them Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" That is America's Creed.

"Separate is INHERENTLY unequal". That is America's Policy.

That we would support an Apartheid state is abhorrent. It is an affront to all that we hold dear. I got no truck with Jewish people. But Zionism is NOT Judaism. Zionism is a hateful ideology, no different than Jihadism or Nazism.

What's more frustrating to me is that this is AN ENTIRELY FIXABLE PROBLEM. A single Unified Holy Land could bring peace and stability to the world. We could see the end of global Jihad in our lifetimes. But for reasons I honestly do not understand, people insist on defending the modern Nazi government in Israel. Yes, integrating that country would come at a cost. But in the long term it would be better not just for the Jewish people, but for the world.
 
One of my best friends is an Israeli Jewish immigrant to the U.S.

I don't want to get into this, but I am going to print it out and see what he says.

Personally, I don't think Israel is a modern Nazi state. I never thought about the legal ramifications of the creation of Israel, but after WWII and the holocaust and how small the land that was handed over to them was (and how much was left for Sunni and Shia muslims), I'm pretty much okay with it. And how Jerusalem has been open to both sects (not a capital of either). I don't see much wrong in that either.

The current state of Israeli / Islam conflict has nothing to do with the "state", only the representation of Jews as an equal in the region, which Islam does not and will never except. We can argue over that until the cows come home, but that is really what is comes down to.
 
One of my best friends is an Israeli Jewish immigrant to the U.S.

I don't want to get into this, but I am going to print it out and see what he says.

Personally, I don't think Israel is a modern Nazi state. I never thought about the legal ramifications of the creation of Israel, but after WWII and the holocaust and how small the land that was handed over to them was (and how much was left for Sunni and Shia muslims), I'm pretty much okay with it. And how Jerusalem has been open to both sects (not a capital of either). I don't see much wrong in that either.

The current state of Israeli / Islam conflict has nothing to do with the "state", only the representation of Jews as an equal in the region, which Islam does not and will never except. We can argue over that until the cows come home, but that is really what is comes down to.

You are, again, dodging the issue.

Who has the right to take YOUR HOME from YOU? Who? The UN?

Every person in this thread has ducked and dodged the issue of ethnic cleansing. You won't touch it, but none of you deny that it happened. THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION PEOPLE. Forced from their homes at gunpoint for no other reason than because they were not Jews.

I want you to SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE CONDONING. 750,000 of your neighbors and you, rounded up and forced to leave your neighborhood under threat of death. Never allowed to return EVER. And the reason? You were born the wrong color. This is the Israel that you support. This is the conflict that they started, and my Brothers In Green have had to die for. Aparthied. Race prejudice. Ethnic Cleansing.

You can hide from the truth, but it never changes the reality on the ground. "I'm fine with it". Really? I'm not fine with ethnic cleansing.
 
You are, again, dodging the issue.

Who has the right to take YOUR HOME from YOU? Who? The UN?

Every person in this thread has ducked and dodged the issue of ethnic cleansing. You won't touch it, but none of you deny that it happened. THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION PEOPLE. Forced from their homes at gunpoint for no other reason than because they were not Jews.

I want you to SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE CONDONING. 750,000 of your neighbors and you, rounded up and forced to leave your neighborhood under threat of death. Never allowed to return EVER. And the reason? You were born the wrong color. This is the Israel that you support. This is the conflict that they started, and my Brothers In Green have had to die for. Aparthied. Race prejudice. Ethnic Cleansing.

You can hide from the truth, but it never changes the reality on the ground. "I'm fine with it". Really? I'm not fine with ethnic cleansing.

I think you are over simplifying things.

The dual occupancy ideal only exists if Muslims allow it, which they do not. You contend the conflict STARTED with the Israeli state, while I contend the conflict started with the idea of co-existence (on equal terms) of Jews and Muslims, which is certainly not ethnic cleansing.
 
Once a Jew hater, always a Jew hater. Don't waste your time.

I think the Jews have been way too nice to the palestinian terrorists - time for their right wing to stand up and fight fire with fire after 3000 years


"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts."

This was the religious opinion issued one week ago by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a long-established religious institute attended by students and soldiers in the Israeli settlements of the West Bank.

Rosen asserted that there is evidence in the Torah to justify this stand. Rosen, an authority able to issue religious opinions for Jews, wrote that Palestinians are like the nation of Amalekites that attacked the Israelite tribes on their way to Jerusalem after they had fled from Egypt under the leadership of Moses. He wrote that the Lord sent down in the Torah a ruling that allowed the Jews to kill the Amalekites, and that this ruling is known in Jewish jurisprudence.

"Annihilate the Amalekites from the beginning to the end. Kill them and wrest them from their possessions. Show them no mercy. Kill continuously, one after the other. Leave no child, plant, or tree. Kill their beasts, from camels to donkeys."

Rosen adds that the Amalekites are not a particular race or religion, but rather all those who hate the Jews for religious or national motives. Rosen goes as far as saying that the "Amalekites will remain as long as there are Jews. In every age Amalekites will surface from other races to attack the Jews, and thus the war against them must be global." He urges application of the "Amalekites ruling" and says that the Jews must undertake to implement it in all eras because it is a "divine commandment".


**** yeah - they want a Holy War - bring it!
 
You are, again, dodging the issue.

Who has the right to take YOUR HOME from YOU? Who? The UN?

Every person in this thread has ducked and dodged the issue of ethnic cleansing. You won't touch it, but none of you deny that it happened. THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION PEOPLE. Forced from their homes at gunpoint for no other reason than because they were not Jews.

I want you to SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE CONDONING. 750,000 of your neighbors and you, rounded up and forced to leave your neighborhood under threat of death. Never allowed to return EVER. And the reason? You were born the wrong color. This is the Israel that you support. This is the conflict that they started, and my Brothers In Green have had to die for. Aparthied. Race prejudice. Ethnic Cleansing.

You can hide from the truth, but it never changes the reality on the ground. "I'm fine with it". Really? I'm not fine with ethnic cleansing.

You keep leaving out the fact that just 10 years or so earlier that the Arabs had been killing the Jews that had always lived there at the Direction of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler. The other thing I find odd is that you assert the UN had no power to create Israel but it has the power to desolve Israel.
 
I think you are over simplifying things.

The dual occupancy ideal only exists if Muslims allow it, which they do not. You contend the conflict STARTED with the Israeli state, while I contend the conflict started with the idea of co-existence (on equal terms) of Jews and Muslims, which is certainly not ethnic cleansing.

"Dual occupancy" has never been offered by the Israelis, so that statement is moot. The Zionists NEVER proposed sharing Palestine in any egalitarian manner. Not once EVER. Either you don't know your history, or you just made that up. Israel could very easily have repatriated the banished Palestinians after the war. They refused. When asked why, they said "because Israel would lose it's Jewishness". That's straight up race hate. And you're defending it.

You simply don't understand the history. I see that now. You keep claiming, over and over, that the Israelis never planned the ethnic holocaust, it's just happened by accident. This is factually untrue. When the UN was debating the Partition Plan, the ******* British of all people, warned that the Zionist demand for racial segregation would cause a generations long conflict.

What you are claiming happened, NEVER HAPPENED. The Zionist movement was always a supremacist movement. If they had wanted to live in a "shared occupancy", they would never have called for the land to be Partitioned in the first place. I can't tell if you are sketchy on the details or if you're just making up Israel's history in your head as you go along. But you're making historical claims about Israel that are factually inaccurate.

You keep leaving out the fact that just 10 years or so earlier that the Arabs had been killing the Jews that had always lived there at the Direction of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler. The other thing I find odd is that you assert the UN had no power to create Israel but it has the power to desolve Israel.

There were tribal clashes and killing on BOTH SIDES. Don't believe the hype, pre-Israel Zionists did their fair share of killing. It was nothing compared to the wars that followed.
 
When did this "chance for peace" happen?
I already told you. In 2000 under President Clinton.

You'd be wrong. Germany was very safe for Jews after WW2. It was that way thanks to our reconstruction efforts. And the Palestinians have every right to go home. Why should they not be allowed to return to their homeland? You still haven't answered that question. Ethnic cleansing is a crime. You keep ducking it, over and over. If it was you, and they took your house, you'd just leave? Go live in Mexico somewhere and forget all about home? I seriously doubt it. I know I would lock load and go get some. But that's just the little voice in my head from Fort Benning telling me to fight for what's right.
Hey, that's that one world government that Liberals want. How'd that work out for you?

I'm still waiting for one of you to explain why the Zionists had the right to ethnically cleanse Palestinians from their homeland and force them onto reservations. You all seem eager to avoid that question.
I did, you just don't like the answer. The "Palestinian homeland" consisted more of what is Jordan than what is Israel. Take it up with the Jordanians.

Yes and no. Yes there is a substantial Arab minority in Israel proper. No, they do not want to live in Zionist controlled Israel, and whoever told you that, LIED. The Israeli government has been in a panic about the growing Arab population because it is known that they will abolish the Jewish state as soon as they become the Majority. It's called the Demographic Time Bomb, and it's well documented.
So then don't worry about it. The Jooz will be driven into the sea in a few years.
 
That we would support an Apartheid state is abhorrent

You keep saying they're an apartheid state and I keep pointing out that Arabs live and work and vote and are represented by government there but you just ignore it. I can't really go much further with this. Yes, I know how the Palestinians view it and you have swallowed that view completely and are not open to even listening to anything else. There's plenty of violence and brutality and blame to go around but there is never going to be a peaceful solution when you have a portion of one side that wants to exterminate the other...and surprise, it's not the Israelis who want that, it's the Islamists.

And again, this dispute didn't start in 1948, there have been Arab and Jewish people there arguing over it since Biblical times. It's not like Jews marched in there one day out of the blue and took over.

I don't know why you are so blind to any facts that don't support Palestinians,generally you tend to take a fairly balanced view of a lot of things. On this you are incredibly biased.
 
Prove what wrong. You made a nonsensical statement. You say anti-semitism is a Liberal trait, but that most Jewish people are Liberal. That doesn't make any damn sense.

I repeat my assertion that you're trolling.

You know how to use Google right? It is common knowledge that the bashers of Israel and Zionism are mainly leftists. You're a moron if you can't distinguish who the pro- Israeli and pro- Hamas/Iran people are anytime a conflict arises.
You must also understand that many Jews residing here don't give a **** about Israel. Many believe that Israel does not have a right to exist,

Like blacks, the majority of Jews vote Democrat. Jews however will openly admit to being liberal than blacks.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jews+are+liberal

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/98-prominent-hollywood-jews-back-814855
 
Three Israelis murdered in Istanbul attack

Three Israelis were killed Saturday in a suicide bombing on a major shopping street in Istanbul, Turkish media report. At least one other person, an Iranian national, was also killed.

Israel on Saturday sent two planes to Turkey to bring home its wounded citizens, according to Magen David Adom.

No group has yet claimed responsibility for the explosion but pro-government newspapers blamed it on ISIS

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/209600#.Vu2r4PkrLIU

------------------------------

Let Putin nuke Turkey too



Turkish official: 'I wish wounded Israeli tourists were dead'

Irem Aktas, a member of Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party, posted a tweet today, reading "I wish that the wounded Israeli tourists were dead."

She deleted the account shortly after posting it, but not in time to prevent a strong backlash over her lack of sympathy.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/209600#.Vu2r4PkrLIU
 
"Palestine" is a sov proxy - nothing more. It has never existed beyond being a Roman administrative designation to piss off Jews, and in the last 50 years as a front against the West. This is born out in the words of a PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein who on March 31, 1977, told the Dutch newspaper Trouw "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

This is further in evidence in the words of Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc. "In 1972, the Kremlin decided to turn the whole Islamic world against Israel and the U.S. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov told me, a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on America than could a few millions. We needed to instill a Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon of the emotions into a terrorist bloodbath against Israel and its main supporter, the United States. No one within the American/Zionist sphere of influence should any longer feel safe."

Since the link is dead, here is an entire article on the matter...

August 24, 2006 6:55 A.M.
Russian Footprints
What does Moscow have to do with the recent war in Lebanon?
By Ion Mihai Pacepa

The Kremlin may be the main winner in the Lebanon war. Israel has been attacked with Soviet Kalashnikovs and Katyushas, Russian Fajr-1 and Fajr-3 rockets, Russian AT-5 Spandrel antitank missiles and Kornet antitank rockets. Russia’s outmoded weapons are now all the rage with terrorists everywhere in the world, and the bad guys know exactly where to get them. The weapons cases abandoned by Hezbollah were marked: “Customer: Ministry of Defense of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia.”

Today’s international terrorism was conceived at the Lubyanka, the headquarters of the KGB, in the aftermath of the1967 Six-Day War in the Middle East. I witnessed its birth in my other life, as a Communist general. Israel humiliated Egypt and Syria, whose bellicose governments were being run by Soviet razvedka (Russian for “foreign intelligence”) advisers, whereupon the Kremlin decided to arm Israel’s enemy neighbors, the Palestinians, and draw them into a terrorist war against Israel.
General Aleksandr Sakharovsky, who created Communist Romania’s intelligence structure and then rose to head up all of Soviet Russia’s foreign intelligence, often lectured me: “In today’s world, when nuclear arms have made military force obsolete, terrorism should become our main weapon.”

Between 1968 and 1978, when I broke with Communism, the security forces of Romania alone sent two cargo planes full of military goodies every week to Palestinian terrorists in Lebanon. Since the fall of Communism the East German Stasi archives have revealed that, in 1983 alone, its foreign intelligence service sent $1,877,600 worth of AK-47 ammunition to Lebanon. According to Vaclav Havel, Communist Czechoslovakia shipped 1,000 tons of the odorless explosive Semtex-H (which can’t be detected by sniffer dogs) to Islamic terrorists — enough for 150 years.

The terrorist war per se came into action at the end of 1968, when the KGB transformed airplane hijacking — that weapon of choice for September 11, 2001 — into an instrument of terror. In 1969 alone there were 82 hijackings of planes worldwide, carried out by the KGB-financed PLO. In 1971, when I was visiting Sakharovsky at his Lubyanka office, he called my attention to a sea of red flags pinned onto a world map hanging on the wall. Each flag represented a captured plane. “Airplane hijacking is my own invention,” he claimed.

The political “success” occasioned by hijacking Israeli airplanes prompted the KGB’s 13th Department, known in our intelligence jargon as the “Department for Wet Affairs” (wet being a euphemism for bloody), to expand into organizing “public executions” of Jews in airports, train stations, and other public places. In 1969 Dr. George Habash, a KGB puppet, explained: “Killing one Jew far away from the field of battle is more effective than killing a hundred Jews on the field of battle, because it attracts more attention.”

By the end of the 1960s, the KGB was deeply involved in mass terrorism against Jews, carried out by various Palestinian client organizations. Here are some terrorist actions for which the KGB took credit while I was still in Romania: November 1969, armed attack on the El Al office in Athens, leaving 1 dead and 14 wounded; May 30, 1972, Ben Gurion Airport attack, leaving 22 dead and 76 wounded; December 1974, Tel Aviv movie theater bomb, leaving 2 dead and 66 wounded; March 1975, attack on a Tel Aviv hotel, leaving 25 dead and 6 wounded; May 1975, Jerusalem bomb, leaving 1 dead and 3 wounded; July 4, 1975, bomb in Zion Square, Jerusalem, leaving 15 dead and 62 wounded; April 1978, Brussels airport attack, leaving 12 wounded; May 1978, attack on an El Al plane in Paris, leaving 12 wounded.

In 1971, the KGB launched operation Tayfun (Russian for “typhoon”), aimed at destabilizing Western Europe. The Baader-Meinhof, the Red Army Faction (RAF), and other KGB-sponsored Marxist organizations unleashed a wave of anti-American terrorism that shook Western Europe. Richard Welsh, the CIA station chief in Athens, was shot to death in Greece on December 23, 1975. General Alexander Haig, commander of NATO in Brussels was injured in a bomb attack that damaged his armored Mercedes beyond repair in June 1979. General Frederick J. Kroesen, commander of U.S. forces in Europe, barely survived a rocket attack in September 1981. Alfred Herrhausen, the pro-American chairman of Deutsche Bank, was killed during a grenade attack in November 1989. Hans Neusel, a pro-American state secretary in the West Germaninterior ministry, was wounded during an assassination attempt in July 1990.

In 1972, the Kremlin decided to turn the whole Islamic world against Israel and the U.S. As KGB chairman Yury Andropov told me, a billion adversaries could inflict far greater damage on America than could a few millions. We needed to instill a Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon of the emotions into a terrorist bloodbath against Israel and its main supporter, the United States. No one within the American/Zionist sphere of influence should any longer feel safe.

According to Andropov, the Islamic world was a waiting petri dish in which we could nurture a virulent strain of America-hatred, grown from the bacterium of Marxist-Leninist thought. Islamic anti-Semitism ran deep. The Muslims had a taste for nationalism, jingoism, and victimology. Their illiterate, oppressed mobs could be whipped up to a fever pitch.

Terrorism and violence against Israel and her master, American Zionism, would flow naturally from the Muslims’ religious fervor, Andropov sermonized. We had only to keep repeating our themes — that the United States and Israel were “fascist, imperial-Zionist countries” bankrolled by rich Jews. Islam was obsessed with preventing the infidels’ occupation of its territory, and it would be highly receptive to our characterization of the U.S. Congress as a rapacious Zionist body aiming to turn the world into a Jewish fiefdom.

The codename of this operation was “SIG” (Sionistskiye Gosudarstva, or “Zionist Governments”), and was within my Romanian service’s “sphere of influence,” for it embraced Libya, Lebanon, and Syria. SIG was a large party/state operation. We created joint ventures to build hospitals, houses, and roads in these countries, and there we sent thousands of doctors, engineers, technicians, professors, and even dance instructors. All had the task of portraying the United States as an arrogant and haughty Jewish fiefdom financed by Jewish money and run by Jewish politicians, whose aim was to subordinate the entire Islamic world.

In the mid 1970s, the KGB ordered my service, the DIE — along with other East European sister services — to scour the country for trusted party activists belonging to various Islamic ethnic groups, train them in disinformation and terrorist operations, and infiltrate them into the countries of our “sphere of influence.” Their task was to export a rabid, demented hatred for American Zionism by manipulating the ancestral abhorrence for Jews felt by the people in that part of the world. Before

I left Romania for good, in 1978, my DIE had dispatched around 500 such undercover agents to Islamic countries. According to a rough estimate received from Moscow, by 1978 the whole Soviet-bloc intelligence community had sent some 4,000 such agents of influence into the Islamic world.

In the mid-1970s we also started showering the Islamic world with an Arabic translation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a tsarist Russian forgery that had been used by Hitler as the foundation for his anti-Semitic philosophy. We also disseminated a KGB-fabricated “documentary” paper in Arabic alleging that Israel and its main supporter, the United States, were Zionist countries dedicated to converting the Islamic world into a Jewish colony.

We in the Soviet bloc tried to conquer minds, because we knew we could not win any military battles. It is hard to say what exactly are the lasting effects of operation SIG. But the cumulative effect of disseminating hundreds of thousands of Protocols in the Islamic world and portraying Israel and the United States as Islam’s deadly enemies was surely not constructive.

Post-Soviet Russia has been transformed in unprecedented ways, but the widely popular belief that the nefarious Soviet legacy was rooted out at the end of the Cold War the same way that Nazism was rooted out with the conclusion of World War II, is not yet correct.

In the 1950s, when I was chief of Romania’s foreign intelligence station in West Germany, I witnessed how Hitler’s Third Reich had been demolished, its war criminals put on trial, its military and police forces disbanded, and the Nazis removed from public office. None of these things has happened in the former Soviet Union. No individual has been put on trial, although the Soviet Union’s Communist regime killed over a hundred million people. Most Soviet institutions have been left in place, having simply been given new names, and are now run by many of the same people who guided the Communist state. In 2000, former officers of the KGB and the Soviet Red Army took over the Kremlin and Russia’s government.

Germany would have never become a democracy with Gestapo and SS officers running the show.

On September 11, 2001, President Vladimir Putin became the first leader of a foreign country to express sympathy to President George W. Bush for what he called “these terrible tragedies of the terrorist attacks.” Soon, however, Putin began moving his country back into the terrorist business. In March 2002, he quietly reinstituted sales of weapons to Iran’s terrorist dictator, Ayatollah Khamenei, and engaged Russia in the construction of a 1,000-megawatt nuclear reactor at Bushehr, with a uranium conversion facility able to produce fissile material for nuclear weapons. Hundreds of Russian technicians also started helping the government of Iran to develop the Shahab-4 missile, with a range of over 1,250 miles, which can carry a nuclear or germ warhead anywhere in the Middle East and Europe.

Iran’s current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, had already announced that nothing could stop his country from building nuclear weapons, and he stated that Israel was a “disgraceful stain [on] the Islamic world” that would be eliminated. During World War II, 405,399 Americans died to eradicate Nazism and its anti-Semitic terrorism. Now we are facing Islamic fascism and nuclear anti-Semitic terrorism. The United Nations can offer no hope. It has not yet even been able to define terrorism.

A proverb says that one fire drives out another. The Kremlin may be our best hope. In May 2002, the NATO foreign ministers approved a partnership with Russia, the alliance’s former enemy. The rest of the world said that the Cold War was over and done with. Kaput. Now Russia wants to be admitted to the World Trade Organization. For that to happen, the Kremlin should be firmly told first to get out of the terrorism business.

We should also help the Russians realize that it is in their own interest to make President Ahmadinejad renounce nuclear weapons. He is an unpredictable tyrant who may also consider Russia an enemy at some point in time. “If Iran gets weapons of mass destruction, deliverable by a missile, that’s going to be a problem,” President Bush correctly stated. “That’s going to be a problem for all of us, including Russia.”

–Lt. General Ion Mihai Pacepa is the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc. His book Red Horizons has been republished in 27 countries.
 
Always playing the victim card


Pro-Palestine Students Can’t Take the BDS Heat

Pro-Palestinian activists at Harvard are showing great hypocrisy, freaking out over a loss of funds which they deem as “censorship of free speech.”I guess they’ve forgotten about their favorite tactic: boycott, divestment, and sanctions.

Milbank, an international law firm, had pledged $1 million to Harvard Law School’s student groups and conferences, which was to be donated over a five year period. They changed their minds, however, upon the discovery that some $2,000 were allocated to Pro-Palestine student groups, like Harvard’s Justice for Palestine.

The event which sparked the Harvard controversy was about “suppression of Palestinian advocacy rights in the United States.”

Instead of understanding that Milibank also has a right to free speech - which includes where it donates its money - the Palestinian students are invoking another one of their favorite activism tactics, the victim card.

“We are also disappointed, though not particularly surprised, that at Harvard Law School, too, there exists such an exception to free speech when it comes to Palestine,” a letter to the Harvard Law Record states.

The firm, quite understandably, has zero interest in associating with the radical political leanings.

When Pro-Palestinian students find themselves at odds with another’s ideas, they jump to BDS tactics. We’ve seen this time and time again over issues such as Israeli sovereignty. These student activists need to decide if they like capitalism, where every dollar represents a vote for a product or idea, or if they don’t. Quite frankly, they have the right to hold whatever political and economic philosophies they want, but at least they should be consistent. As the old saying goes, they’re getting a taste of their own medicine.


http://townhall.com/columnists/laur...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=
 
I already told you. In 2000 under President Clinton.

So you and I aren't even talking about the same thing. You suggesting using a band aid to treat a severed limb.

Hey, that's that one world government that Liberals want. How'd that work out for you?

You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again: If it was you and your family forcibly removed from your home because of the color of your skin and the god that you worship, WOULD YOU FIGHT? Keep dodging this question, and I'll just keep asking it until you do.

I did, you just don't like the answer. The "Palestinian homeland" consisted more of what is Jordan than what is Israel. Take it up with the Jordanians.

Factually untrue, although I recognize this as AIPAC propaganda. More than 700,000 Palestinians were forcibly removed from what is now Israel proper. So either you're ill informed, or you're intentionally obfuscating.

So then don't worry about it. The Jooz will be driven into the sea in a few years.

This is a bad outcome. A peaceful Holy Land is better for the world. Killing or displacing the Israelis will not make the world a better place and will only continue the schism between the Arab world and the West. We should be trying to heal the infected wound, not hack off the arm for expediency. Palestinians and Israelis can live in one country and get along. The fact that there are over a million Arabs living inside Israel proves this. Why you oppose ending the conflict is beyond me.

You keep saying they're an apartheid state and I keep pointing out that Arabs live and work and vote and are represented by government there but you just ignore it. I can't really go much further with this.

I fully acknowledge it. At the end of the 1948 ethnic purge, about 1% of Israel's remaining population was still Arab. This was NOT INTENTIONAL. Several years later the Israelis granted them full citizenship, but did so grudgingly. Which is to say the western powers dragged them to it kicking and screaming. Birth rates then became a problem: Arab families grow faster. That's why the original 1% has now become 20%.

Yes, I know how the Palestinians view it and you have swallowed that view completely and are not open to even listening to anything else. There's plenty of violence and brutality and blame to go around but there is never going to be a peaceful solution when you have a portion of one side that wants to exterminate the other...and surprise, it's not the Israelis who want that, it's the Islamists.

You are refusing to acknowledge that 700,000 were forcibly expelled from their homes, never allowed to return, because they were born the wrong color and worship the wrong god. Even the Israelis themselves acknowledge that fact. Why can't you? Racial segregation and ethnic cleansing are crimes. The only justice that exists is to return the Palestinians to their homeland. NOTHING LESS THAT WHAT YOU WOULD DEMAND FOR YOURSELF. You want to kill radical Islam? Great. So do I. It starts with the Palestinian Right of Return and healing this rift.

You can't kill an idea with bombs and bullets.

And again, this dispute didn't start in 1948, there have been Arab and Jewish people there arguing over it since Biblical times. It's not like Jews marched in there one day out of the blue and took over.

This is the Zionist propaganda lie. The reason they promote this lie is so people like you will continue to believe that the problem is not fixable, and either support Israeli Apartheid or tolerate it as the lesser of two evils. But the fact of the matter is, Jewish people lived in relative peace for LONG PERIODS under Islamic rule. Read about Saladin. Read about the Ottoman Empire, which was largely welcoming to the Jews when Christian whites in Europe were massacring Jews during the Pogroms and Catholic Inquisition.

It's not your fault that the media has lied to you. But at some point, you've got to look at things from the other side. I've read your posts in other threads. You are one of the few genuinely reasoned voices on this board. I beseech you to consider the Palestinians position more thoroughly.

I don't know why you are so blind to any facts that don't support Palestinians,generally you tend to take a fairly balanced view of a lot of things. On this you are incredibly biased.

The PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah have done horrific things in the name of the Palestinian cause. I do not support, nor excuse the use of violence against civilians by these groups. Nor do I support or excuse the firing of rockets into Israel by militants. In fact, I think the reason that we haven't seen the dissolution of the Israeli Apartheid Regime is because the intelligentsia within the region has been killed of, and replaced with strong men who are unreasonable opportunists. Had their been a Ghandi, and MLK, a Mandela of the Palestinian cause they could have shamed the world into restoring the Palestinian homeland. Instead, by killing the way they do, the Palestinian leadership has fed into the racist Zionist narrative that Arabs and Muslims are simply too dangerous to make peace with.

I see both sides clearly. But at the end of the day, the only way to support Israel is to support ethnic cleansing and segregationist Apartheid. And that's fundamentally un-American.

You know how to use Google right? It is common knowledge that the bashers of Israel and Zionism are mainly leftists.

Ron said "hate Jews". My point was simply that being anti-Israel does not make a person anti-Jew. Zionism is not Judaism. Zionist is a racist, supremacist political movement that uses Judaism as it's mascot. Calling Zionism the same as Judaism is like saying that the KKK is the same as Christianity because the KKK uses Christianity as their mascot.

You must also understand that many Jews residing here don't give a **** about Israel. Many believe that Israel does not have a right to exist,

No Apartheid state has the "right to exist". At the very least, they should get no support from the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
 
So you and I aren't even talking about the same thing. You suggesting using a band aid to treat a severed limb.
Again, 95%. Arafat chose to take nothing instead.

You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask it again: If it was you and your family forcibly removed from your home because of the color of your skin and the god that you worship, WOULD YOU FIGHT? Keep dodging this question, and I'll just keep asking it until you do.
it depends. They're still in the same ******* neighborhood and in 1948 there wasn't much there. If the UN wanted to move me to the next county I probably wouldn't ***** about it. But again, that ship has sailed.

Factually untrue, although I recognize this as AIPAC propaganda. More than 700,000 Palestinians were forcibly removed from what is now Israel proper. So either you're ill informed, or you're intentionally obfuscating.
As mentioned, a whole lot of them live peacefully among the Israelis.

A peaceful Holy Land is better for the world. Killing or displacing the Israelis will not make the world a better place and will only continue the schism between the Arab world and the West. We should be trying to heal the infected wound, not hack off the arm for expediency. Palestinians and Israelis can live in one country and get along. The fact that there are over a million Arabs living inside Israel proves this. Why you oppose ending the conflict is beyond me.
I'd love to end the conflict. Take it up with the Muzzies whose answer to all their problems is every Jew and Christian dead.
 
Again, 95%. Arafat chose to take nothing instead.

There are lot of things wrong with this statement, but since that's the media's narrative I understand your ignorance here. It would take an involved understanding the peace agreement to catch you up here, and I'm sure you don't want to read all that ****. Bottom line, the Palestinians were being asked to eat a **** sandwich and call it gravy. They declined. But explaining why would take several pages, and you'd have to learn a hell of alot more about the history, geography and infrastructure of these areas to understand.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that I don't really feel like typing all that ****.

it depends. They're still in the same ******* neighborhood and in 1948 there wasn't much there. If the UN wanted to move me to the next county I probably wouldn't ***** about it. But again, that ship has sailed.

First, I call bullshit. No you wouldn't.

Second, and more importantly, that ain't what happened. The Palestinians were forced off of viable, irrigated farmlands and into baron internment camps. That's not "the next county". It's out of your home and into hell. I seriously doubt you'd go for that deal. And if it was because you were a white christian (or whatever you are), you'd be incensed. All the outrage I see you personally direct at the "muzzies", you would go apeshit if some other group did to you what the Zionists did to the Palestinians. You'd be the first guy out there with an RPG and a Red Dawn bandana.

As mentioned, a whole lot of them live peacefully among the Israelis.

None of them do. The 700,000 are the ones driven out. The 1.6 million in Israel proper are the small number that remained. I'm am genuinely shocked that you don't know this. Your lack of understanding of the conflict does however explain the ridiculous and un-American position you've taken on the issue though.

Granted, CAMERA, AIPAC and the ADL have done a smashing job of propagandizing and warping the facts. But it seems to me that if you have such a strong opinion of the situation, you shouldn't be so horrendously ill informed.

I'd love to end the conflict. Take it up with the Muzzies whose answer to all their problems is every Jew and Christian dead.

I take it up with the people who started it, the Israelis. I take it up with the people who perpetuate it, the Israelis. I take it up with the only group that could end the conflict tomorrow if they abolished Apartheid and denounced racism: THE ISRAELIS.
 
"muzzies"

Its 'muzloids' SV. Try to keep up.

Hey, I have a question. Why do not their beloved Arab brethren take up for them? What, with all that land they could share. If it were in their nature to share.
 
Granted, CAMERA, AIPAC and the ADL have done a smashing job of propagandizing and warping the facts. But it seems to me that if you have such a strong opinion of the situation, you shouldn't be so horrendously ill informed.
Well there is the fact that I hate the primitive goat-raping pedophile Muslims. If Israel were to get pissed off enough to annihilate all of them I'd give a golf clap and sleep very well that night.
 
I have no interest in trying to educate anyone on the history of Israel, or the history of capitalism, or the history of socialism, etc. - **** it, call it nationalism and vote for Trump.
 
Well there is the fact that I hate the primitive goat-raping pedophile Muslims. If Israel were to get pissed off enough to annihilate all of them I'd give a golf clap and sleep very well that night.

Well you certainly exemplify the adage that ignorance breeds hatred.

It really is too bad. More unnecessary conflict, war, pain and death will ensue because so many willfully ignorant people like you can't be bothered to learn about the issues. It's too bad because you're a smart guy who could make a positive difference if you wanted to. But you've given in to the selfish path of least resistance.
 
Well you certainly exemplify the adage that ignorance breeds hatred.

It really is too bad. More unnecessary conflict, war, pain and death will ensue because so many willfully ignorant people like you can't be bothered to learn about the issues. It's too bad because you're a smart guy who could make a positive difference if you wanted to. But you've given in to the selfish path of least resistance.

And you don't think the Muslims being ignorant breeds THEIR hatred? Typical Liberal. When they take over they're coming for your kind first.

I turned 38 that day. What a nightmare it was. The UN is a corrupt sham.

My 41st birthday. Back at ya. :beer:
 
Steel Vanguard has set up an argument that is conditional on him being right and knowing the truth, and if you don't agree with him, you are wrong. And any dissenting opinions are the result of the great Zionist propaganda machine. I am right, and you are wrong. I have information to prove it. Yours is biased and lies.

The truth is, the Muslim world will not allow Muslims lands to be reclaimed by others. It doesn't fit their narrative of declaring supremacy over the world. Sure, they will allow Christians and Jews to coexist in dhimmitude, but the rest will meet with the sword. These are universal teachings in Islam. This is the singular reason they won't allow Israel to exist. This scenario is being played out wherever the Muslim world borders on the kuffar. What does the Boko Haram movement have to do with Israel? Zero. What does the Al Shabab movement have to do with Israel? Nothing. What does the Abu Sayyaff movement have to do with Israel? Nothing.

Israel is a challenge to Islamic supremacy. This is why Iran, which has little skin in the Palestinian game, has sworn to destroy it. Notice how the Sunnis and Shia are competitors except when it comes to Israel.

This is not to say that the Israelis are innocent, and without blood on their hands. But when you are constantly threatened, **** happens. These conflicts could have been worked out if their were two sides willing to negotiate. But , since the beginning, there has only been one. The other will only settle for death.
 
The problem is no one is fighting terrorists or an army. It is fighting a mindset / religion. Armies can be destroyed, but trying to destroy Isis or Al-queda is near impossible. There are always people waiting in the wings. Nothing will change unless both Israel and other countries educate the young. That would involve Muslims teaching to respect others even if they don't agree. All these Muslims who are supposedly against Islamic terror need to make a stand. It is the only way things will change. They have been fighting over there long before we were even a country. No amount of political BS will stop it.
 
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