DRAFT 2018 - Wide Receiver Scouting Notes

[deljzc]

I like your stuff and hope you keep calling them as you see it. But every WR would benefit from playing wit Ben you say? It didn't work with Coates, or if you want to go further back with Sweed?

I do think some WR's are held back by poor QB's and you see it in scouting reports from time to time.

I'll stand that the QB situation at Norte Dame held St. Brown's 2017 production back a bit. When I watch WR's for the draft you can judge them when they are open, but the Qb badly missed with the pass.

Wallace is a good NFL player, and had a 1,000 yard season ( 2 years ago ) on the Ravens, that's not easy. A bum, that is approaching 10,000 yards gained in the NFL? You might want to reevaluate that one.

You seem to watch more video then I, but when I have seen enough of a player on film and I disagree ( Gesecki or St. Brown ), I'll say it here for the football content.

As for WR's if we trade Bryant or lose him next year a speed WR to me is the need, and that means I'm looking at those types of players in the draft. St. Brown fits the mold.

For the purpose of this tread or any other, you send me the link of a player on film and I'll write him up myself.

Is Coates lighting if up somewhere else I'm not aware of?

I didn't say Roethlisberger would make EVERY prospect great, just better. That means turn D players into C's or B's into A's. Maybe even C's into A's in the right circumstance. Who knows.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Hey now...

Wallace does not SUCK. He might not be an all-pro talent, but he has had a very serviceable career.

 

[slashsteel]

l love your work Del and Cope. Keep doing you and ignore the one microscope nickpicking fuckhead that seems to want to find fault in the process hoping he somehow makes himself look smarter. But fails miserably in the process. Coach even if you blind squirrel get lucky and are right here and there. You don't put in the work and it can be annoying seeing you put down others to have your one second of fame. Your I am right and you are wrong approach screams douchebag.

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[Stryker]

Coates kind of killed it his first few games as a starter before his injury gave him choppy steps, alligator arms, and footsteps in his ears...

And Coach, it's cool to have opinions, but no one is keeping score but you. Just state your opinions, they have nothing to do with Del's or mine. That is the difference between a discussion and a competition, and I always welcome discussions.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Deljzc,

I had Wallace a 3rd round talent with round one type of upside.....Okay, perhaps he was a bit of a one-trick pony, but paired with Ben, he could shine and nobody was catching that pony.

Wallace had a decent super bowl vs. the Packers, 89 yards, 1 TD which on that day was better than Hines Ward.

Wallace will probably wind up with 9,500-10,000+ yards for his career.

“One trick pony”....interesting you use the term CMT used to describe Wallace. Considering, your opinion of his coaching.

“decent” SB?....better than Hines? Who was a SB MVP genius? Has Wallace even made a pro bowl?

IF he makes it to 10K (and I don’t think he will unless he plays 3 more years) he will be around the 45th WR in yards.....still behind guys like Alworth, Stanley Morgan, Don Maynard and Harold Jackson. All who played decades before him.

Wallace is a good NFL player, and had a 1,000 yard season ( 2 years ago ) on the Ravens, that's not easy. A bum, that is approaching 10,000 yards gained in the NFL? You might want to reevaluate that one.

So in your reasoning a one trick pony is a good player? At one time a 1st round talent? Last 1000 yard season was 2 years ago? He’s only had three 1000 yard seasons, the other two years (2010 & 2011) in Pittsburgh, so 4 years in between and three teams later. Manny Sanders has outplayed him and will probably have more yards in his career (if Cousins is signed).

Someone else needs to do the re-evaluating.....


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[slashsteel]

Not seeing some of my favorite WRs run hummmmm.

 

[slashsteel]

oh ok they split them up in different groups..

 

[CoolieMan]

And Coolie's Houston receiver he's pimping. 1/29/18:



I absolutely love his hands Coolie. He wraps those big paws around the ball whenever he can. Two hands in front of his body, great to see. You can speak for this since I don't watch many Houston games, but from his hand positioning, it looks like he'd have very few drops.

He looks fast, but it also like it takes some time for him to reach full speed. His lateral quickness is good, but not elite. He uses his size well, and does a good job of high pointing the ball. His vert is less than Tate's, but I'd be happy with Dunbar as an option.

Cope I went back and watched several games from the last two seasons...I found one clear drop by Dunbar. I also saw his blocking was more than just "decent" as I said earlier. I found several times he put safeties on the ground on running plays his way. If he can get on a team with a solid QB, he could be a consistent producer in the NFL...hopefully someone outside the AFC North takes this kid

 

[Coach]

“One trick pony”....interesting you use the term CMT used to describe Wallace. Considering, your opinion of his coaching.

“decent” SB?....better than Hines? Who was a SB MVP genius? Has Wallace even made a pro bowl?

IF he makes it to 10K (and I don’t think he will unless he plays 3 more years) he will be around the 45th WR in yards.....still behind guys like Alworth, Stanley Morgan, Don Maynard and Harold Jackson. All who played decades before him.



So in your reasoning a one trick pony is a good player? At one time a 1st round talent? Last 1000 yard season was 2 years ago? He’s only had three 1000 yard seasons, the other two years (2010 & 2011) in Pittsburgh, so 4 years in between and three teams later. Manny Sanders has outplayed him and will probably have more yards in his career (if Cousins is signed).

Someone else needs to do the re-evaluating.....


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Wallace will likely end his career near or above 10,000 total yards. This is a very good NFL career. "A bit of a one trick pony " remark was a bone for those who didn't like him.

Wallace wasn't just a skinny deep post or go route type of guy, he offered value as a reverse runner, and in the slot with the ability to take it to the house.

Playing WR on Baltimore as a receiver is not easy these days. I think the Steelers were wise letting him walk. The Dolphins offered him way too much.

If I were to list the best 10 Steeler WR's, Wallace makes the top ten behind Brown, Ward, Stallworth, and Swann, but even or ahead of Lipps, and better than Sanders, Holmes, or Burress.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallMi00.htm

 

[Superman]

I like your stuff and hope you keep calling them as you see it. But every WR would benefit from playing wit Ben you say? It didn't work with Coates, or if you want to go further back with Sweed?

I do think some WR's are held back by poor QB's and you see it in scouting reports from time to time.

I'll stand that the QB situation at Norte Dame held St. Brown's 2017 production back a bit. When I watch WR's for the draft you can judge them when they are open, but the Qb badly missed with the pass.

Wallace is a good NFL player, and had a 1,000 yard season ( 2 years ago ) on the Ravens, that's not easy. A bum, that is approaching 10,000 yards gained in the NFL? You might want to reevaluate that one.

You seem to watch more video then I, but when I have seen enough of a player on film and I disagree ( Gesecki or St. Brown ), I'll say it here for the football content.

As for WR's if we trade Bryant or lose him next year a speed WR to me is the need, and that means I'm looking at those types of players in the draft. St. Brown fits the mold.

For the purpose of this tread or any other, you send me the link of a player on film and I'll write him up myself.

so when would you pull the trigger on St. Brown?

 

[Ike Kelly]

Wallace will likely end his career near or above 10,000 total yards. This is a very good NFL career. "A bit of a one trick pony " remark was a bone for those who didn't like him.

Wallace wasn't just a skinny deep post or go route type of guy, he offered value as a reverse runner, and in the slot with the ability to take it to the house.

Playing WR on Baltimore as a receiver is not easy these days. I think the Steelers were wise letting him walk. The Dolphins offered him way too much.

If I were to list the best 10 Steeler WR's, Wallace makes the top ten behind Brown, Ward, Stallworth, and Swann, but even or ahead of Lipps, and better than Sanders, Holmes, or Burress.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallMi00.htm

Ludicrous. You are making a statements based upon stats and not actual play impact. Lipps, Yancey and Plaxico had a greater impact for this era. Buddy Dial and Elbie Nickle different era, but better receivers all around in comparison for eras.


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[Stryker]

Ludicrous. You are making a statements based upon stats and not actual play impact. Lipps, Yancey and Plaxico had a greater impact for this era. Buddy Dial and Elbie Nickle different era, but better receivers all around in comparison for eras.


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I loved Yancy, never like Burress, Here's my top 10:

1. Brown
2. Ward
3. Stallworth
4. Swann
5. Lipps
6. Holmes
7. Yancy
8. Sanders
9. Wallace
10. Burress

 

[slashsteel]

Burress had a surprisingly low catch percentage in comparison.He deserves the low ranking. But he would have a argument on being ranked above Holmes who had a pretty short career. Perhaps the deciding factor is his SB run compared to Plax having it for the G-men on another team.

Thigpen IMO should bottom the list, he simply didn't do enough.

Also could make the argument Antonio hasn't edged out Hines, yet. Not that he won't when it is all said and done.

But Hines was a MVP of a SB and still has the better statistics, even less fumbles.

Antonio has the better catch percentage, and again one day will probably top the list when it is all said and done.

Day isnt today IMO.

 

[slashsteel]

1. Ward
2. Brown
3. Stallworth / Swann - I have a hard time edging one over the other.
5. Lipps
6. Holmes
7. Wallace
8. Burress
9. Yancy
10. Sanders

 

[Stryker]

Burress had a surprisingly love catch percentage in comparison.He deserves the low ranking. But he would have a argument on being ranked above Holmes who had a pretty short career. Perhaps the deciding factor is his SB run compared to Plax having it for the G-men on another team.

Thigpen IMO should bottom the list, he simply didn't do enough.

Also could make the argument Antonio hasn't edged out Hines, yet. Not that he won't when it is all said and done.

But Hines was a MVP of a SB and still has the better statistics, even less fumbles.

Antonio has the better catch percentage, and again one day will probably top the list when it is all said and done.

Day isnt today IMO.

I don't disagree with your assessments. For me Holmes made the plays we needed to win a SB. Burress did for the Giants, but never did here. Yancy was a monster in 95 and 97. No one could stop him. He was 2 yards shy of 1400 yards from Kordell. Next closest for Kordell was 1000 to Burress and Ward.

The reason I have Brown over Hines, is no receiver can do what AB does. Hines is one of my all time favorite players, even over AB, but when it comes to catching a football, Brown's only peer is Jerry Rice.

A couple more good years, and JuJu will make my list.

 

[Stryker]

Some WRs the Steelers have met with:

James Washington OK State



It's like watching a pitbull go out for passess. Short arms, small hands, stocky body, no elite speed, but he will fight for balls.

He adjusts really well to balls in the air. Makes adjustments that most receivers can't or don't make. His hand positioning is good, but unorthodox at times. He is a bit of a snatcher, meaning his hands aren't in position until the last moment to catch the ball. This lessens the time of his hands on the ball, so if he's bumped or defended, those balls will hit the ground. I think it also was the reason why he double caught balls. Steady hand positioning would help him make more clean catches.

Personally, watching his film, I think he benefits from his QB throwing him open. His deep ball receptions were perfect shots by Rudolph. And although he has good speed, it's the QB's arm that highlights his ability IMHO.

I could get excited about him being in the slot, but I'm not sure I like his hands enough to rely upon him catching those quick tough plays, every time. To me, this guy could go either way in the pros, he could be great, or he could be terrible. I see him as a boom or bust receiver.

 

[Stryker]

Ritchie James: Middle Tennessee State



I hate these cut-up highlights, because they don't show the entire route or all of the breaks.

This guy is the definition of a RAC receiver. Great runner, excellent wiggle, quickness, and gets skinny to split defenders for yardage. Reminds me of Randel El, the way he could get skinny and get tough yardage to convert 3rd downs. Lined up as a wildcat QB, and can handle the position. I am confident with him as a runner.

I think he'd compliment this team really well as a slot receiver. We haven't had a slippery slot player like this since El, and with JuJu/AB/Bryant, he's be an excellent compliment to their skill sets.

I'd like to see more highlights of him running routes. His hand positioning looks good, and he fights and highpoints well. He'd be a nice late round sleeper that could immediately contribute.

 

[deljzc]

Boy, I just looked at the WR rankings over at Draft Scout and I am way off on what I see vs. what the experts see. Maybe I'm way off this year.

I might not be happy with a WR pick this year if the Steelers board is similar to the "experts" but we will see.

 

[slashsteel]

Boy, I just looked at the WR rankings over at Draft Scout and I am way off on what I see vs. what the experts see. Maybe I'm way off this year.

I might not be happy with a WR pick this year if the Steelers board is similar to the "experts" but we will see.

sometimes perhaps they get too see a greater body of work or sometimes they are wrong.

shrugs, do what you do, it is appreciated regardless

 

[Slaine]

Boy, I just looked at the WR rankings over at Draft Scout and I am way off on what I see vs. what the experts see. Maybe I'm way off this year.

I might not be happy with a WR pick this year if the Steelers board is similar to the "experts" but we will see.

Well all the experts thought that the QB class last year sucked too.

 

[Stryker]

Just met with Devin Gray:



Devin has a shorter stocky frame. He's listed as 6' 177#, but looks shorter and stockier in pads. He does have speed and he does a good job of catching the football in front of his frame, even on gut throws facing the QB. I like his wiggle and it looks like he's being looked at as a late round depth WR/PR.

I didn't see enough long balls to notice a trend, but it looks like he keeps his hands, elbows in, to ensure catches over his shoulder. He jumps well when timing high throws (he needs to since he is a shorter receiver). I want to see more fight in his game, when going after contested balls, but overall could be used in the league as a second slot WR in a 4 receiver set in his first year.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Boy, I just looked at the WR rankings over at Draft Scout and I am way off on what I see vs. what the experts see. Maybe I'm way off this year.

I might not be happy with a WR pick this year if the Steelers board is similar to the "experts" but we will see.

WR and CB rankings tend to go by the numbers. It makes sense for CB because it’s so demanding athletically.

It’s very tempting to also rank WR by numbers. It seems so logical that a guy who runs really fast should be able to just run fast and catch a ball. When i used to do my own ranking, i used to get sucked into the 40 times.

Then i realized that most of the great WRs are not the fastest guys. 40 time doesn’t always translate.

now i look for 3 things
1. Hands - don’t care about anything else if they drop balls
2. Separation - either with speed or with great route running. I prefer route running because it always translates.
3. Contested Catches - i don’t care about that catch where a guy is open by 5 yards. I want to see when the DB is right there. Does the WR wait on the ball and let it get tipped away or does he aggressively fight for the ball?

If i can’t find any examples of a WR taking the ball away from a DB, then i’m generally not interested. That doesn’t always mean physicall wrestling it away. It also means adjusting your route once the ball is in air to beat the DB to the spot.

It’s amazing how many WRs just run their route and seem content that a ball hits the ground 5 yards behind them because they didn’t adjust anything. It means they are either lazy, or maybe they just don’t track that ball well so they misjudge where it will land.

 

[fogdoctor]

If Antonio Callaway had 10 more IQ points then he would probably be a top 10 pick in this draft. So far he has been nailed for pot, drug paraphernalia, credit card fraud, and accused of sexual assault (but got off because he claimed he was too high to assault anyone - not joking). His quote after this 4th screup? "I moved on from it. I’ve grown. I’ve learned from the experience."

Callaway is an Antonio Brown level talent that is his own worst enemy.