Drop algebra to improve graduation rate

[hamster]

Must be a bunch of dumb ************* in those countries, with their dumbed-down "free" higher education.

Allowing millions of third world neanderthals to immigrate to your country, where you are going to go broke supporting them, and they are still going to hate you....is not only dumb, but suicidal. The free education did not serve them well.

 

[Supersteeler]

Civics and critical thinking are far more important.

Most people never use algebra. Calculators and computers do the math for most people.

But, of course, the Religious Right would never allow critical thinking to be taught in school. You can't have the sheep questioning the Shepard.

What sort of critical thinking do you feel should be allowed to be taught and currently isn't? Not sure I follow.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

What sort of critical thinking do you feel should be allowed to be taught and currently isn't? Not sure I follow.

I think it would be some bullshit curiculum that ends up teaching how global warming is real, God is not, and socialism is good.

 

[Supersteeler]

I think it would be some bullshit curiculum that ends up teaching how global warming is real, God is not, and socialism is good.

I was wondering if that was where he was going, but then I thought hey, maybe it's something that would actually be beneficial to students lol. Just figured I'd ask. It would be pointless to teach that stuff in high school since they'll get all that in college. I did 20 years ago, I can't imagine the amount they will get dumped on them in this era.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I was wondering if that was where he was going, but then I thought hey, maybe it's something that would actually be beneficial to students lol. Just figured I'd ask. It would be pointless to teach that stuff in high school since they'll get all that in college. I did 20 years ago, I can't imagine the amount they will get dumped on them in this era.

I agree that reintroducing classic liberal arts would be a bonus. I remember when Latin was required in high school to get into most colleges. I guess that was too hard and not utilitarian enough.. Some classic philosophy and rhetoric would be good as well. Along with that would be logic. I think these people don't realize what they are really asking for. This is not easy stuff either.

 

[ark steel]

Mathematics is critical thinking.

Which, unsurprisingly, is missed by SV.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Mathematics is critical thinking.

Math is empirical logic, and the basis for scientific analysis. But it is not cognitive critical thinking, which is what I was referring to. Algebra teaches the use of formulas, and that's useful. But it would be put to better use as part of another class, rather than as a discipline in and of itself.

What sort of critical thinking do you feel should be allowed to be taught and currently isn't? Not sure I follow.

You could start with the Classical Fallacies. Young people are much smarter than we give them credit for. We spend a lot of time cramming facts and figures into their heads, but not much time teaching them how to use that information.

Which, unsurprisingly, is missed by SV.

So much stinging butturt. You want some Preparation H for that, son?

 

[Supersteeler]

The troubling reality is that all schools with the exception of upper class districts have had to cut staff and programs to the point that there is no way to offer that stuff. My school has cut all work programs, every language except Spanish, Home Economics, all Business and Accounting classes not to mention that all Clubs have been discontinued because there is no one to run them. We have a couple Computer classes, Band, Choir, and Woodshop. That's basically it for electives. We have just enough staff to teach the core classes plus those few extras.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

The troubling reality is that all schools with the exception of upper class districts have had to cut staff and programs to the point that there is no way to offer that stuff. My school has cut all work programs, every language except Spanish, Home Economics, all Business and Accounting classes not to mention that all Clubs have been discontinued because there is no one to run them. We have a couple Computer classes, Band, Choir, and Woodshop. That's basically it for electives. We have just enough staff to teach the core classes plus those few extras.

The economics of education are troubling, especially given how much money is poured in at the top that never reaches the student at the bottom.

Administrators are massively overpaid, teacher's unions have hijacked the process forcing us to keep "tenured" teachers that are garbage AND pay their welfare pensions forever. So much money is wasted on programs that don't work and we haven't even discussed the states that have no income tax and how that effects their school systems. In California, property taxes are used as a weapon so that the money only goes from the rich homes to the schools in the rich neighborhoods. The poor neighborhoods and the housing projects get a tiny fraction of the funding, and the schools suffer mightily as a result.

School choice would break up the monopoly to a point, but then you'd have a whole new conflict on your hands with busing. Wealthy people have a **** fit when poor kids are sent to their schools, and a voucher program would send literally millions of poor kids to upper middle class schools, ******* up the test scores, grade point averages, and probably the safety of the rich kids.

There are no easy solutions.

 

[Supersteeler]

School choice would break up the monopoly to a point, but then you'd have a whole new conflict on your hands with busing. Wealthy people have a **** fit when poor kids are sent to their schools, and a voucher program would send literally millions of poor kids to upper middle class schools, ******* up the test scores, grade point averages, and probably the safety of the rich kids.

There are no easy solutions.

Not to mention the schools these students are leaving that are already on the verge of going under financially will be decimated further, since schools are funded per student.

 

[Yinzerlyn]

I struggled with math my entire life. I would have been happier had I NOT had to take any math in HS. HOWEVER.......if we never take a class that challenges us or makes us think on a different level,we really will be dumbed down. That being said- I don't think that kids in a SpEd class should be forced to take Algebra and the higher math. They should learn the basics and that is it. It creates a culture of failure if kids who can't grasp simple math are forced to take a class that is obviously beyond their level and they can't pass it.

 

[jitter77]

There are a lot of things we learn that are not needed. Do kids really need to memorize the capitals of all the states or all the past presidents? I could memorize a list of 50 things on the way to school where others would take weeks to do it. My GFs son has ADHD really bad along with other problems, and he had to memorize all that at 9 years old. It took every night for a couple of weeks for him to get it, but he did get it and got them all right. It is nothing more than a memorization test though. I think he world have been better off spending that time learning other stuff.
As for the math the way they teach stuff now a days is messed up. I was a math minor in college and I have trouble helping out grade school math because half the time I don't know what they are trying to accomplish. You have to draw these boxes and put this number here and that number there and add this and that up it is ridiculous. The old fashioned way worked fine.
My friend is a teacher who works with troubled / handicapped kids. Between political correctness and lack of discipline it's no wonder we are falling behind. In his class he has kids that can't even spell their name and others who are just show slow learners. Not sure how either group is supposed to benefit from that.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Algebra teaches the use of formulas, and that's useful. But it would be put to better use as part of another class, rather than as a discipline in and of itself.

No, a common core approach to algebra would not work. Really stupid comment.

 

[jitter77]

No, a common core approach to algebra would not work. Really stupid comment.

Yeah I tried to turn a differential equations test into an essay once did not work out for me.
I had a poetry final then right after the math final. I planned on studying in between. I think we had 3 hours for the final then I had an extra hour. Well the damn poetry final took almost the full 4 hours so I had like 15 minutes of study time for the math. Some of the problems I would start, but I would get stuck because I forgot formulas and what not. I would explain what I wanted to do and what steps I would take, but I said I forgot how to actually do them. I think I ended up with a low C which I was happy with considering how things went.

 

[Rod Farva]

a voucher program would send literally millions of poor kids to upper middle class schools, ******* up the test scores, grade point averages, and probably the safety of the rich kids.

There are no easy solutions.

Very elitist/racist of you to note.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So much stinging butturt. You want some Preparation H for that, son?

Tell me this ain't Elfie. The self love is high with this one.

Oh waiter, IP check please!

 

[Steeltime]

Math is empirical logic, and the basis for scientific analysis. But it is not cognitive critical thinking, which is what I was referring to. Algebra teaches the use of formulas, and that's useful. But it would be put to better use as part of another class, rather than as a discipline in and of itself.

Incorrect. Algebra teaches the student how to formulate equations, how to solve them, and how to analyze them. Even one small example proves the point: Multiple variable equations.

2x * 4y = 1000
x/y = 5

Solve for x so x = 5y

10y * 4y = 1000

Therefore, 40y[squared] = 1000
y[squared] = 25
y = square root of 25 = 5

Having solved for y, solve for x

2x * 4*5 = 1000
2x * 20 = 1000
2x = 1000/20
2x = 20
x = 50/2
x = 25

The solution is y = 5, x = 25. Let's test it out.

2x * 4y = 1000
2*25 x 4*5 =1000
50 x 20 = 1000

Yep. Algebra taught me to create formulae, run the formulae, test the formulae and derive the correct answer.

 

[Coach]

Can't make this stuff up.



from - http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...s-algebra-is-too-hard-schools-should-drop-it/

He continues -

Yes, because we want kids to have the same kind of reasoning skills that you do, ya moron. Listen professor, the problem is with your teaching profession. You idiots keep dicking around with proven teaching techniques. And how about you poly sci majors refrain from public discourse about "difficult" STEM curriculum. Personally, I'd like some difficult curriculum required for an education degree because there are amazingly stupid people out there trying to teach our kids.

There is no doubt many students struggle. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with lack of family support and the lifestyle of the student.

Those who can't succeed in the pre-college courses should be guided down to more of a general level of education.

Those who can't graduate can get their GED's.

 

[Max Power]

There is no doubt many students struggle. Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with lack of family support and the lifestyle of the student.

Those who can't succeed in the pre-college courses should be guided down to more of a general level of education.

Those who can't graduate can get their GED's.

Likely these are kids that don't leave their video games. Stupid? Not really, just lazy. They are completely computer literate and probably could navigate circles around book students. They just don't care to take the effort.

 

[Coach]

Likely these are kids that don't leave their video games. Stupid? Not really, just lazy. They are completely computer literate and probably could navigate circles around book students. They just don't care to take the effort.

I agree, and part of the reason is the culture of their family. The *****-cat like treatment kids gets these days has hit a tipping point where they expect things handed to them. Oh, and they are fat and lack ethics. When I was in elementary school, there was one fat child in a classroom of 25. These days there are several. When I was a child, maybe there was one trouble maker per class room, and on his baddest day, he had a pocket knife. These days that kid would be off the radar.

Its a mess.

 

[warriors42]

The thing is, to graduate from either a community college or a university you need pre-cal Algebra/Trig. How are you going to pass these classes without Algebra. You have to be able to FOIL, Factor and do long division with exponents, where else are you going to learn this if not in Algebra? Hey here's an idea, lets stop teaching math period, that way we can do away with computers and science..

 

[deljzc]

I know you guys don't agree and there are many things about Common Core I don't like.

But teaching math is not one of them. I guarantee if you guys give the method of teaching math per Common Core a generation, you will see rising ability to handle Algebra come 8th-9th grade.

Math is built in foundations. Blocks on top of blocks on top of blocks. When kids run into a so-called "wall" that is Algebra, that means the blocks taught before it are not working. It's not algebra's fault, it's what we are teaching kids in 3rd through 7th grades that is the problem.

I think common core math is better. I'm watching my 1st and 3rd grader be taught a much better and effective way to build the proper foundation for higher level math and I constantly push them to understand the fundamentals rather than "memorize" anything.

There are many things about Common Core I don't like mostly involving standardized tests and changing curriculum to match the tests, but the changes they've made to teaching math in 1st - 5th grades vs. what I did are a VAST improvement.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

The thing is, to graduate from either a community college or a university you need pre-cal Algebra/Trig. How are you going to pass these classes without Algebra. You have to be able to FOIL, Factor and do long division with exponents, where else are you going to learn this if not in Algebra? Hey here's an idea, lets stop teaching math period, that way we can do away with computers and science..

A better question is: why do you need it? WTF does an pre-law major need with trigonometry? It's a waste of time to learn something you'll never use again, and won't retain anyway.

Higher math is useless to the majority of people and the majority of professions. We have computers for that. This is not the "dumbing down" of education, it's the streamlining of education. As I stated earlier in the thread, much more useful things like civics and critical thinking are being overlooked in favor of useless rote memorization of disciplines that serve no day to day function for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[Supersteeler]

The thing is, to graduate from either a community college or a university you need pre-cal Algebra/Trig.

You do? Is this a recent thing? I never had anything above Algebra II in high school, never even had Geometry. The highest Math course I had to take in College was Statistics which was way easier than Algebra. I didn't even have to take any higher level Math in Grad school. If you are a MATH related major in college you have to have those high level Math classes. If you are a non Math related major you only need to take the basic Math courses required and take the high level courses in your subject area. I was a Psychology major with a double minor in Sociology and History. Math was an almost non existent part of the coursework related to my field....which was one of the reasons I chose that field.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I know you guys don't agree and there are many things about Common Core I don't like.

But teaching math is not one of them. I guarantee if you guys give the method of teaching math per Common Core a generation, you will see rising ability to handle Algebra come 8th-9th grade.

Math is built in foundations. Blocks on top of blocks on top of blocks. When kids run into a so-called "wall" that is Algebra, that means the blocks taught before it are not working. It's not algebra's fault, it's what we are teaching kids in 3rd through 7th grades that is the problem.

I think common core math is better. I'm watching my 1st and 3rd grader be taught a much better and effective way to build the proper foundation for higher level math and I constantly push them to understand the fundamentals rather than "memorize" anything.

There are many things about Common Core I don't like mostly involving standardized tests and changing curriculum to match the tests, but the changes they've made to teaching math in 1st - 5th grades vs. what I did are a VAST improvement.

Math is one of the worse aspects of common core. Watching my kids come up in it has been almost frustrating enough to go private, but we know what needs to be stressed and have been mitigating the damage. Not having them stress about some of the incredibly stupid homework they are given either. I've had numerous meetings with teachers on this stupid ****, and they are just stupid. You and I just disagree on this.