greenleader
Registered
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2017
- Messages
- 86
- Reaction score
- 68
- Points
- 18
If I sucked as bad as Tomlin they wouldn't have to fire me, I'd quit on my own
Fire Tomlin.
- Thread starter Coach
- Start date
Very simple, you ******* dress Cam, Tuitt, alualu, Hargrave, McCullers, Walton. You rotate them as you see fit, but there better be at least 3 on the field at all times, and Bostic doesn't see the field unless of Injury or short yardage.
Williams needs to come off in passing downs as well.
Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
It never is a one game problem Cope. It is a trend.
When are you going to get on the guy needs to be replaced bandwagon?
You haven't seen enough failure in enough areas yet?
Bostic sees a lot of play against running teams. Which would mean he gets little to no paying time if it is my play.
Colbert I know isn't talked about much, but there isn't much attractive with his off-season. From free agents to the draft.To his lack of moves into the season.
He deserves some criticism.
How he was covering Kennan Allen on the most important play of the game is beyond stupid.
Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
And do you want a guy as a HC that isn't smart enough to know that defensively the scheme needs changed? Like others I am not convinced that D mess isn't his baby.
That goes back to a long time discussion of his lack of in game adjustments.
Which is one of the biggest reasons I want him gone.
The fact anyone ever thought that was smart is what gets me, you should never have to make an adjustment to stop covering a #1 WR with a LB, that should never happen to begin with. I don't remember AB, Wallace, Holmes, Ward ever being covered by a LB, I'm sure it happens from time to time, but like 60% of his targets came with a LB on him.
Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
I've come here to see if he's been fired yet. . .
Especially slow ILBers on number one WRs.
It's because I watch a lot of football. Not just the Steelers. The NFL is not college ball. You can't have an Alabama taking all the top talent, leaving most games played with Alabama starting the game on 3rd base. You've got 32 teams competing for talent, that is distributed as equally as possible.
Then you have the great game of football that succumbs to many environmental factors: Weather, penalties, turnovers, injuries, can change the potential of any game on a dime. It is a game, and perfection was only attained once. In 72'.
There were some great personnel moves made earlier this year that turned the losing streak around. That needs done again.
I am also aware that Tomlin deserves blame in losses. It comes with being a head coach. Success and failure are the hallmarks of their record, and winning games is the ultimate goal.
I also am not so myopic to state that he is the only problem.
I get that. But when do you identify that a coaching change is needed?
What do you need to see for Cope to sour on this head coach?
He obviously isn't the only problem, but I would feel comfy to say he is not correcting the problems that are correctable. In game as well as in practice.
the way I see it, this season has become a cluster and the season will not end good, even if they sneak into the PO. They will get bounced early, again. Next year will be his "put up or shut up(gone)" year. He will make some changes in the off-season by replacing Butler and/or Smith, but it has to be SB or Bust for him. Ten years since he's sniffed a SB is long enough.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 4,757
- Reaction score
- 2,715
- Points
- 113
Cope - agreed that Tomlin isn't the only problem. But I think it becomes clearer by the week that he is one of the problems. And when he oversees everything else, and can be identified as a problem, I think that's the first problem that needs to be addressed. Most of the other problems with this team should be in suspended judgment until we see what a new HC can do. I mean, Artie Burns being useless was an obvious problem and sitting him made the defense instantly better. But right now it's difficult to identify any obvious personnel moves the team can make that would give them that kind of boost. To me, we need to see what this team can do with better scheming.
I could maybe get on board if the argument is that the entire secondary lacks playmaking ability. But you can't replace the entire secondary overnight, unfortunately. And again, when an entire unit exhibits the same flaws (not just this year, but every year) I just can't help but think they too could benefit from a new scheme and better position coaching and coordinating (sorry Scrap, love ya but your unit is horrific)
I could maybe get on board if the argument is that the entire secondary lacks playmaking ability. But you can't replace the entire secondary overnight, unfortunately. And again, when an entire unit exhibits the same flaws (not just this year, but every year) I just can't help but think they too could benefit from a new scheme and better position coaching and coordinating (sorry Scrap, love ya but your unit is horrific)
I'm with you at recognizing trends over time, but you have to be careful that you have your trends correct. There is a problem with fans at times. During wins, they fail to recognize the things that went wrong. During losses, they fail to credit the things that were done right. A lot of times, fans even like make problems that don't necessarily have to do with coaching, when a lot can be attributed to gameplay variables. A player fumbles, and all the sudden, the coaching staff doesn't teach ball security. You know, the BS arguments that fly out of ***** after a loss.
This past game, your offensive game plan worked very well. We had a rookie RB on the field, who's skillset is that of a pass catching matchup problems if defended by a front 7 player. The result was nearly a 100yd combined game from his first start. That was a big part of the game plan, and it worked well. JuJu is also the go to guy on offense. He's going to make the big catches to keep the chains moving and score points. Great to have both AB and JuJu in that regard. So why doesn't the coach get kudos for that? It's because the game was lost.
Special teams return teams are dogshit. Our punt coverage team has regressed significantly, and even our kick coverage, that used to pin KOs inside the 10 is now not stopping returns to the 30/40 range. That i'd put on ST coach. So if no improvement in ST before the end of the year, and he should be fired.
Defense is the same way. Defense started terrible, we had a couple injuries, but it improved and was doing well for 2mos. Then a weakness was found by spreading them out, and now everyone is exploiting it. 3 games now. It this team continues to not recognize how other teams are attacking them, and fail to scheme appropriately, That is on the coaching staff. Problem is, I think the problem right now is with personnel. We have all these new safeties, and we never play all of them. I'd be fine at this point, attempting to put Dangerfield, and Marcus Allen at the 'ILB' spots on passing downs, because it's not working with Fort/Williams/Bostic.
Most of that is on Butler, but I will blame Tomlin for standing by Butler. There was a cry to fire the DC last season, and if he can't right the ship this year, and they lose out on the playoffs because of it, Tomlin does deserve to be looked at for his decision of keeping Butler.
Also there is how much of that D is on Tomlin in comparison. That can only be known internally.
First I always enjoy your conversations, because a lot of what you say makes sense, not that I agree with you every time. But I do a good amount of time to different degrees.
The thing is with these coaches they have rotated in assistants with the same degree of fail. As you point to Tomlin standing by Butler as a fault, it intertwines IMO with his lack of decision making. The type of in game decision making that will win you games.When it matters the most.
If new problems arise and the end result isn't good enough, eventually IMO you have to look at who is dishing out those decisions.
I think Ben is the type of talent that will mask issues, because he is just that damn good.
But we see even with other teams, you need a damn good decision maker, even with a top QB.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,973
- Reaction score
- 1,266
- Points
- 113
We all know the Rooney’s are not going to fire Tomlin. Whether that’s a good thing or bad thing doesn’t really matter what matters is winning. It’s important if you’re a long term coach like Tomlin you stay on top of the game. To stay on top you must innovate and scout then scout some more. Coach Noll was greatest but the thing was he didn’t do was stay on top of the game. He was incredibly innovative on offense and defense, combining Paul browns power running game with Sid Gilman innovative passing schemes... was the first to use the two tightend formations that joes Gibbs used as a base offense. On defense his innovations on the penn state 4-4 defense became the basis for the “steel curtain” the “Tampa 2” and Seattle’s “legion of boom”. But in the end, our enemies knew our schemes better than our never ending roster of “young” players. Young because we had didn’t scout well and had a never ending revolving roster. How did Noll go from drafting John stallworth to weggie Thompson?
The game has changed and much of that change was brought on by Noll and the Steelers, but he didn’t change with or more importantly, drive that change. When you are the best, teams throw all their resources into beating you. Which is smart, as they say in Boston, beat the Steelers and you’ll beat the rest. And beat the Steelers is what New England has been doing. What have we been doing? We changing? We driving the change? On offense the innovation of using the running back in either the backfield or the slot or wide like a number 2 wr was made popular by Steelers, many teams like the saints have copied what Steelers were doing. Steelers take advantage? They fired the coach that came up with the innovation and refused to pay the player they built the offense around! On defense the Steelers are a disaster. Teams know every fault in the steeler defense and exploit it. The Steelers have relied on outside linebackers blitzing for a pass rush for several decades. New England is so dialed into what the Steelers do, they know the defense better than the young secondary players the Steelers trot out every year in a useless effort to “stop Brady”. When the Steelers play the patriots this weekend they will be facing another rookie safety for the uptenth time. And the results will be the same. Tomlin needs to decide if he really wants to coach and I mean really coach, put in the time, hire the staff, a real staff and not a bunch of college buddy’s like he has now, and get a strategy for putting Steelers back on top. If he doesnt, let the Rooney’s off the hook and resign... if he stays he needs to be reborn and get on top of whats going on in football. On defense it’s still about getting to the qb but also with rpo’s it’s about containing the qb and the run game. You aren’t going to do it with a two man defensive l8be or linebackers covering the slot receivers. Go steeeellllerssss!
The game has changed and much of that change was brought on by Noll and the Steelers, but he didn’t change with or more importantly, drive that change. When you are the best, teams throw all their resources into beating you. Which is smart, as they say in Boston, beat the Steelers and you’ll beat the rest. And beat the Steelers is what New England has been doing. What have we been doing? We changing? We driving the change? On offense the innovation of using the running back in either the backfield or the slot or wide like a number 2 wr was made popular by Steelers, many teams like the saints have copied what Steelers were doing. Steelers take advantage? They fired the coach that came up with the innovation and refused to pay the player they built the offense around! On defense the Steelers are a disaster. Teams know every fault in the steeler defense and exploit it. The Steelers have relied on outside linebackers blitzing for a pass rush for several decades. New England is so dialed into what the Steelers do, they know the defense better than the young secondary players the Steelers trot out every year in a useless effort to “stop Brady”. When the Steelers play the patriots this weekend they will be facing another rookie safety for the uptenth time. And the results will be the same. Tomlin needs to decide if he really wants to coach and I mean really coach, put in the time, hire the staff, a real staff and not a bunch of college buddy’s like he has now, and get a strategy for putting Steelers back on top. If he doesnt, let the Rooney’s off the hook and resign... if he stays he needs to be reborn and get on top of whats going on in football. On defense it’s still about getting to the qb but also with rpo’s it’s about containing the qb and the run game. You aren’t going to do it with a two man defensive l8be or linebackers covering the slot receivers. Go steeeellllerssss!
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 35,695
- Reaction score
- 40,405
- Points
- 113
- Location
- between $2 short & ten buck two
Cope / slash / stuntmanmike.............. ALL great write ups and thank you for the time and effort. I understand and agree with a lot that has been said. Tomlin's package as is is VERY OLD and out dated by 7-12 years. I also think that talent "scouting" has dropped a long ways from the Coach Noll era. I don't know who is in charge of scouting but it seems we miss a little to much and I realize the slot we pick in is low due to our placement yearly and continuously. I guess they don't make DAN ROONEYs as often as this team needs because with his departure the scouting has slipped. Frustration is a big part of negativity directed towards CMVLT but a long part of that is earned over his career of subpar. Vs. talent as to placement or longevity within the play offs. I don't think we travel far and possibly will draft pick the highest we've picked in awhile this year. I'm on the TOMLIN replacement wagon but also realize he isn't going anywhere till his extention is over. He will absorb the negativity so to speak and deflect it via smoke and mirrors.
Salute the nation
Salute the nation
Tonight on Jerry Dulac's show with Tim Benz, Jerry said firing Butler would be almost pointless unless Tomlin decides to give up his part in the defense.
He said ever since the lost the Patriots in the AFCC, Tomlin has been very much involved in what the defense is doing. He goes on to say Tomlin is as responsible as Butler is.
He said ever since the lost the Patriots in the AFCC, Tomlin has been very much involved in what the defense is doing. He goes on to say Tomlin is as responsible as Butler is.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 6,581
- Reaction score
- 4,342
- Points
- 113
This is honestly what I’d do with Tomlin. Take him into my office and say it’s super bowl or bust. No more excuses just get it done. I think that’s fair.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2014
- Messages
- 2,841
- Reaction score
- 5,887
- Points
- 113
Someone explain to me how we can take a timeout and look more confused than we did BEFORE we took the T.O.
No ****, I've been saying this since Lebeaus final season that Tomlin was too involved in the defense, here we are 4 seasons later, same ****
Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app
All of you dumbasses fail to realize that a 3 game spin will not be tolerated by Mike Tomlin. Can you imagine the can of whoop *** waiting for the Patriots???
Lol.
Love the sarcasm.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
Whatever the reason it isn't Tomlin's fault.
Ben's not in the game= Tomlin didn't really keep him out... Ben didn't try hard enough to get back in!!
Defense covering #1 WRs with LBs= That's on the DC, Tomlin isn't responsible for that!!
DBs drafted can't defend the pass= That's on ******* Colbert. Tomlin doesn't draft players he's just the HC
LBs suck and can't cover= That's Porters fault he sucks! Tomlin needs to fire him!
Steelers have on the wrong cleats= That's on the equipment people and the players! Tomlin doesn't do shoes!!
Steelers are 0-9 on their last challenges= Tomlin doesn't have a VIDEO GUY in the booth!! He doesn't have a good look at the play!!
Steelers have lost 3 games in a row= Every coach has issues and nobody is perfect! Tomlin is still great but his DC, LBs coach and STs coach needs to be fired!!
Just remember it isn't Tomlin's fault. After the season they will fire the DC and probably a few others. Tomlin will be back and nothing will change. It's always "Well next year if this keeps up he will be on the hotseat!!"... yea right. Go back and look at the threads from the Jags playoff game last year. JUST ONE MORE YEAR!!... yea same **** different year.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2014
- Messages
- 7,399
- Reaction score
- 10,262
- Points
- 113
I suggest Mikey unleash hell after returning from the lab this week.
Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app