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Freiermuth – “See yinz Monday night”

Henry is a good example of wheels run off. Not his injury. I don't know specifics of him. But he absorbs probably 15 huge collisions a game. His functional career will not last the same as his peers guarenteed.
So you think a lineman sustains concussion every game because they have close quarter head collisions? Ok.
 
Yes I do have head injury management in football. And I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that clearing protocol does not equal being healed. It simply does not. His brain is still in a more vulnerable state than if he had not taken the first or the second. There is no scan, xray or test that can be administered on his brain to measure healing. Just risk reward. So explain to me the reward here.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
Henry is a good example of wheels run off. Not his injury. I don't know specifics of him. But he absorbs probably 15 huge collisions a game. His functional career will not last the same as his peers guarenteed.
So you think a lineman sustains concussion every game because they have close quarter head collisions? Ok.
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Yes! That has been discussed...the fact that lineman take concussion type hits and sub concussive hits every game. There has some talk over the last few years (at least at the lower levels of football) about not allowing lineman into 3 point stances anymore to eliminate some of those head collisions.

What is the functional career of many running backs regardless? The special ones make it to the hall of fame. To get those numbers, they were certainly used a lot. They got lucky. To me it is more about that then use, one way or another.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
Yes I do have head injury management in football. And I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that clearing protocol does not equal being healed. It simply does not. His brain is still in a more vulnerable state than if he had not taken the first or the second. There is no scan, xray or test that can be administered on his brain to measure healing. Just risk reward. So explain to me the reward here.
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That's fine. Then they need to change protocols across the board. I am simply going with the protocols as they stand.

Whats the reward? Is that even a proper question? What is the reward if you sit him and next year, first game, he takes another one? I'm not looking at reward or not. If he's cleared, he plays. It is his job.
 
Point 1. Concussion like and sub Concussion blows are not concussions. If they were every player would have CTE on the line. It's like the boxer who moved well and took minimum punishment for that sport versus the brain scrambled.
Point 2. I listened to an expert in the field of Concussion management and a neurologist speak for two hours in my training. A horse racing vet is not really acting as a vet and a doctor associated with a team or league isn't really acting as a doctor. Cause they would tell you as a physician that none of this is a good idea. They are there for risk management and assessment.
Point 3. That doctor would tell Tomlin and the player that he passed the baseline and the protocol. Now the risk assessment and decision falls on the 24 year old player and the 50 year old coach who has to decide whether it is worth it. He would 100% say that he is at greater risk of getting the third concussion if he plays and greater risk of sustaining a serious head injury than if he hadn't sustained the other two. Those are simply indisputable medical facts.
Your comparison to next year is ****** laughable dude. And based on really no real facts or knowledge. Yes they could all sustain a career ending head injury at any time. But there are levels. And is this biscuit worth the risk it.
Oh and the thing the neurologist said that is most closely makes the point here. He made an analogy between concussions and bank withdrawals. No one knows what the account balance is because that is dependent upon the individual. But a withdrawl is still a deficit. So it better not be for nothing. His point was teaching tackling and blocking in practice not meat grinding kids with okie. But I think it is on point here.
 
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diver said:
I'm sorry. That is pure speculation. You cannot show any of those injuries were due to overuse.
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My opinion is yes, fatigue doe and can create better oportunity to get injured. Wear down is a common problem with every player but when you increase to the load the faster the wear down, 101.

How about the covid year, 3 games in (i think) 12 days, massive injury acummilation due to that wear down and no recovery.

Yes my opinion is overused player become more injury prone, pretty simple.



Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
My opinion is yes, fatigue doe and can create better oportunity to get injured. Wear down is a common problem with every player but when you increase to the load the faster the wear down, 101.

How about the covid year, 3 games in (i think) 12 days, massive injury acummilation due to that wear down and no recovery.

Yes my opinion is overused player become more injury prone, pretty simple.



Salute the nation
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To me load management only pertains to the running back position. So Harris is like third in the league in carries plus all of his catches and let me tell you blitz pickup ain't no walk in the park either. So you put a guy like this with all these touches it's just math and it catches up. It really has too. I've always said running backs should have different rookie contract rules because of coaches like Tomlin.
Probably the best example was the year they had Bell and Blount. Everyone including Blount thought this was gonna be a one two punch where Bell would use his finess and Blount his brute force. That was everyone but Tomlin. And can anyone tell me who ended up with a ring on their finger that season.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
To me load management only pertains to the running back position. So Harris is like third in the league in carries plus all of his catches and let me tell you blitz pickup ain't no walk in the park either. So you put a guy like this with all these touches it's just math and it catches up. It really has too. I've always said running backs should have different rookie contract rules because of coaches like Tomlin.
Probably the best example was the year they had Bell and Blount. Everyone including Blount thought this was gonna be a one two punch where Bell would use his finess and Blount his brute force. That was everyone but Tomlin. And can anyone tell me who ended up with a ring on their finger that season.
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I hear you SteelerSask2 on the RB position and agree that is the most visusl. I used the three games in 12 days to show the extra load is volitile to all positions. It's the recouperation time that is vital. RBs are the easiest to see and count useage against. But take the OL or DL and instead of a week to recouperate you give them less and less days between games and you get injury chances that increase.

We are both saying the same thing essentually just in different ways. Thanks for the good input and your insight into your training seminars.



Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
I hear you SteelerSask2 on the RB position and agree that is the most visusl. I used the three games in 12 days to show the extra load is volitile to all positions. It's the recouperation time that is vital. RBs are the easiest to see and count useage against. But take the OL or DL and instead of a week to recouperate you give them less and less days between games and you get injury chances that increase.

We are both saying the same thing essentually just in different ways. Thanks for the good input and your insight into your training seminars.



Salute the nation
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We are definitely not at any disagreement just different issues. When Harris was drafted (which I called and under the circumstances of trying to push chips in I agreed with). Others maintained with Tomlin coaching they would get four years out of him at best. That seems very prescient now.
Friermuth is risk management which is different but again Tomlin is clearly on the wrong side of. This is young player with a ton of future. I did not see the first concussion closely and assume it was fairly minor. The second was a huge one two impact. A third in the span of 8 weeks would just be ridiculous in my mind and would put his long term career in jeopardy.
 
On to more important things… Muth going for over 100 yards and 2 TD’s in Ben’s final home game!! You can’t stop him but only hope to contain him.
 
I had to get away a bit and upon reflection I am even more sure your argument is completely asinine.

I can only use your words. You used the word reward previously. Therefore, if the Steelers were 11-4 and a legit shot to win a championship, would you play him? I can only assume by your use of the word reward you would play him. So it really isn't about all that written word above as it pertains to concussions and player safety. Which makes you a ******* hypocrite as well.

You dislike Tomlin so much you have lost all objectivity.
 
Let's take 4 teams in different situations and pretend Muth is on those teams. In what scenario does he play, again IF CLEARED. I am in no way saying he should play if not cleared.

The Jets, who are completely out of it. Would you play him?

The Steelers, who are not out of it but do not have a real shot. We have our answer here.

How about the Eagles? A young team, play9ing well, in contention, but probably not a realistic chance to win it. Does he play here?

The Packers. A true shot to win it, fighting for home field. Does he play?

You are opening up a lot of cans of worms here, especially if the guy is ******* cleared. Do you want teams sitting guys and throwing games for draft position because they claim injuries or potential injuries?
 
No that is exactly what it is. Tomlin in this situation is paid to assess risk versus reward. Cause the only thing you are right about is that they are paid to play. So he got medical clearance but that clearance doesn't say he is healthy to play and at the same risk of a serious head injury as say Dionte Johnson. Now he as the head football coach decides along with the player if this risk is worth the reward. I would say no it is certainly not in this situation. But it is a sliding scale based upon team outcome possibilities. That is certainly a reality of this sport.
 
He is medically cleared on the Packers he is integral and I'm coaching. He plays. Beyond a person cause they are all people he is an asset that you are unnecessarily riskg.
 
Drink IRON City said:
My opinion is yes, fatigue doe and can create better oportunity to get injured. Wear down is a common problem with every player but when you increase to the load the faster the wear down, 101.

How about the covid year, 3 games in (i think) 12 days, massive injury acummilation due to that wear down and no recovery.

Yes my opinion is overused player become more injury prone, pretty simple.



Salute the nation
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Yeah, but here is the thing. If the NFL or the players union really gave a ****, and it wasn't all about money for all sides, they would eliminate Thursday night games and cut the season back to 14 games.

Everybody hides behind all this stuff but the actions tell a different story.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
He is medically cleared on the Packers he is integral and I'm coaching. He plays. Beyond a person cause they are all people he is an asset that you are unnecessarily riskg.
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If he is at risk he is at risk regardless of the situation the team is in. If player safety is paramount he doesn't play in any scenario.
 
You are allowing your dislike for Tomlin to cloud your common sense. You are trying to cover that up by spouting off knowledge about concussions, which I have no doubt you possess. But it is a completely hypocritical position to play him in certain scenarios and not others, IF CLEARED. Because then it is really no longer about player safety.
 
I never once said it was about some high horse player safety issues. I said it was about dumb risk management from post one. Let me ask you this simple question. His symptoms persist two more days than they did. He is not cleared to play. The Steelers are mathematically eliminated this weekend. He clears in week 18 (which medically makes him miniscule more protected against further injury). Would you play him week 18 against the Ravens. Tap dance that one.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
I never once said it was about some high horse player safety issues. I said it was about dumb risk management from post one. Let me ask you this simple question. His symptoms persist two more days than they did. He is not cleared to play. The Steelers are mathematically eliminated this weekend. He clears in week 18 (which medically makes him miniscule more protected against further injury). Would you play him week 18 against the Ravens. Tap dance that one.
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I don't have to tap dance anything. If cleared, he plays.
 
if you go down that road, what is to stop teams from claiming injury to more important players just playing 2nd and 3rd string players or practice squad guys if they are out of it? Are you comfortable with that and all the pandora's boxes that could open?
 
Teams routinely hold out players in week 17- 18 to prevent injury. Do you seriously believe anyone would question holding thus kid out on two conkies in 5 weeks?
 
SteelerSask2 said:
Teams routinely hold out players in week 17- 18 to prevent injury. Do you seriously believe anyone would question holding thus kid out on two conkies in 5 weeks?
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I know that. But you are talking about holding the kid IF CLEARED out of an important game in which if they win they still have a chance for the playoffs. This whole thread started with that scenario. Really all for some rip on Tomlin and at this point we don't know anything yet. The damn game is 4 days away. You are building something up to be mad at Tomlin about and we have no idea how it will play out.
 
Playoffs. Playoffs are you ******* kidding me. Let's say hypothetically they got in. Who the **** is this team beating. I assume you have watched this team. They cannot run. They cannot stop the run and they haven't scored a TD in the first half of the last 5 weeks. Wake the **** up.
 
If a player is cleared to play by medical professionals he should play. These are paid professionals, they know the risk.
 
I think if they are clear to play, play. If not keep him out. If there is a concern on top of that retire or don't play the sport. It comes with known risks. They know the risks. Just the nature of the game. There is protocols in place more strict than ever before. My take on it...
 
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