Game Balls, Game Goats & FU's...........week 4 vs Vikings.....

[Fiji Mariner]

Doesn't that define a good coach by an important measure? I would kill to have a manager for the Pirates that could coach bad teams to more wins than losses. Considering the lack of money they will spend it is the only way they will have a shot.

Tomlin may not be the coach many want for this team, but I don't think anyone can argue he isn't a great coach at knowing how to win more than he loses overall.

Many can and do argue that he isn’t great.

I perceive he has done less with more than several
Other coaches would’ve done in his situation.

Is he above average? Sure
Great? Highly unlikely imho

Great coaches don’t have franchise QBs and loaded rosters and barely squeak out 1 SB in two decades and go a decade without a singular playoff win.

Is he a good regular season coach? Sure
Maybe even approaching great regular season HC depending on how you assess the talent he has had.

Is he mediocre in the playoffs? No
He’d have to win some games to reach mediocre status.
Currently he is below average trending towards suck/abject failure.

Just ask yourself this question…
What would Marvin have done?
Seriously you put Marvin Lewis in Mike’s situation I think there would be at least equal or possibly better results. Likely very similar tbh

Is Marvin Lewis great?
We’ll never know cuz he spent his career in a dumpster fire where Mike enjoyed the confines of the most stable seat in the NFL.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Many can and do argue that he isn’t great.

I perceive he has done less with more than several
Other coaches would’ve done in his situation.

Is he above average? Sure
Great? Highly unlikely imho

Great coaches don’t have franchise QBs and loaded rosters and barely squeak out 1 SB in two decades and go a decade without a singular playoff win.

Is he a good regular season coach? Sure
Maybe even approaching great regular season HC depending on how you assess the talent he has had.

Is he mediocre in the playoffs? No
He’d have to win some games to reach mediocre status.
Currently he is below average trending towards suck/abject failure.

Just ask yourself this question…
What would Marvin have done?
Seriously you put Marvin Lewis in Mike’s situation I think there would be at least equal or possibly better results. Likely very similar tbh

Is Marvin Lewis great?
We’ll never know cuz he spent his career in a dumpster fire where Mike enjoyed the confines of the most stable seat in the NFL.

Great post Fiji, appreciate yaz !!!

Keep in mind that coach Tomlin is being paid like one of the best.

I believe he is 4th highest paid in the nfl.

Are we getting the results that we are paying for.

****-off to those who want to say it’s not my money, ONLY an imbecile
would think I’’m actually referring to my money.

Rooney feels we are getting the value invested, by the ahead of the means of the NFL.

Eventually that catches up with yaz, and we are seeing some “speak out”, but not enough for change.




Salute the nation

 

[Confluence]

It is a positive, mostly, as far as coaching ability is concerned, and they haven't all been against inferior teams. Quite a few of those are against the Ravens. Yes, some are because of losing bigger leads but he still held those leads. He is 15-1 since 2019 with second half lead. I don't think the issues is holding back in the playoffs, he has coached aggressively in the past in the playoffs with more talented teams, it is simply not having the better team and being outmanned.

which specific playoff games in the past decade or so match your description of his aggressive coaching in the playoffs?

 

[Drink IRON City]

which specific playoff games in the past decade or so match your description of his aggressive coaching in the playoffs?

Didn't Cleveland beat us with their head coach absent ?

I too am curious as to what game this aggressive play off game coaching was taking place ??? Anything more than 3 years ago are way past today's consideration of making any difference in the coaching style being used.



Salute the nation

 

[Punxsutawney]

I don’t buy he has had less talented teams if so that is on him too he signs off on it. But still he is X and O deficient. Which is why he can initially put a game plan together but if it calls for adjustments ruhroh. He sits back and hopes the talent prevails.

The Steelers have had several defenses rank fairly high in numerous categories during the regular season only to get completely undressed in the playoffs.

Tomlin's schemes tend to depend too much on the defensive front, particularly Watt and Heyward, dominating. If they're merely human for a half or entire game, the defense tends to get destroyed.

With the exception of a season or two, the secondary has generally been bad since the Cowher-era DBs began retiring over a decade ago.

They have been blitzing more this year, but a lot of the innovation the Steelers were known for in terms of pressures and coverages under Cowher and Lebeau is long gone.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

which specific playoff games in the past decade or so match your description of his aggressive coaching in the playoffs?

Up until the Jags game and even in the Jags game were pretty aggressive on offense. Even in the Browns game we were pretty aggressive on offense. Without Ben he has been very conservative on offense. Against the Broncos we were missing A LOT of pieces, and he was less aggressive and frankly Ben sucked in that one.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Up until the Jags game and even in the Jags game were pretty aggressive on offense. Even in the Browns game we were pretty aggressive on offense. Without Ben he has been very conservative on offense. Against the Broncos we were missing A LOT of pieces, and he was less aggressive and frankly Ben sucked in that one.

The biggest issue with Tomlin's teams in the playoffs has been the defense.

Seriously, over the past six playoff games, I'm not sure if any other team in league history has been so bad defensively over such a span.

It seems kind of inexplicable given the Steelers have had two HOF-caliber players up front in Watt and Heyward.

Those two deserve their share of the blame for disappearing in those games, but a team cannot rely strictly on its four man rush to win games all the time, especially in the playoffs when the OLs are generally good and preparing extra hard to take certain players away.

Sometimes, you need to win with coverage or blitzing.

Tomlin and Austin do seem to at least be trying to be more creative and diverse with their pressures this season after the sack numbers dropped off last year. I give them that.

 

[Confluence]

Up until the Jags game and even in the Jags game were pretty aggressive on offense. Even in the Browns game we were pretty aggressive on offense. Without Ben he has been very conservative on offense. Against the Broncos we were missing A LOT of pieces, and he was less aggressive and frankly Ben sucked in that one.

With all due respect, SIL, being down a lot to a team without a coach does not qualify the Steelers as "pretty aggressive". They sure weren't to start that stains game.
Against the Jags, they were down 14 at half. The furious 4Q 21 points was typical Ben. In each of the first and third quarters, when the game plan and halftime adjustments show, the Steelers got blanked.
Against the Rats last year, no aggression, clearly.
Against the Bungles in that last win, thank heaven for Peezy's directed aggression when he was able to talk PacMan into displaying his abject selfish stupidity. But that wasn't Tomlin either.

It's very difficult to find a PO game under Tomlin where you could credit him or his staff with better coaching than the opponents, like they clearly exhibited this past week until Mike went Turtleball with an 18 point lead.

 

[kursaki]

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Its true

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The biggest issue with Tomlin's teams in the playoffs has been the defense.

Seriously, over the past six playoff games, I'm not sure if any other team in league history has been so bad defensively over such a span.

It seems kind of inexplicable given the Steelers have had two HOF-caliber players up front in Watt and Heyward.

Those two deserve their share of the blame for disappearing in those games, but a team cannot rely strictly on its four man rush to win games all the time, especially in the playoffs when the OLs are generally good and preparing extra hard to take certain players away.

Sometimes, you need to win with coverage or blitzing.

Tomlin and Austin do seem to at least be trying to be more creative and diverse with their pressures this season after the sack numbers dropped off last year. I give them that.

Great post

Also inexplicable for the highest paid D and a defensive guru like Mike to always get their ***** handed to them in the playoffs. His overpaid underachievers are on pace to set historic records with their points allowed/playoff futility.

The offense hasn’t been great either, but damn…his defense has just been sucking out loud.

 

[Drink IRON City]

It can’t be Tom Lin because it’s always Ben’s fault………………. ****


Ireland told the story of the last decade. turtle Ball / conservative / all came into play once the lead was there.

No foot on the gas to the very end. No guaranteed win until having to fight for their life in a game that should have been out of reach.

Go back to the playoff games and you see even a more magnified version of turtle ball conservative.

Some want to blame Ben, ****, if it wasn’t for Ben the devastation would have been even worse.

I think the Tebow threw an unbelievable low number of passes in that PO game and the defense couldn’t stop him. That wasn’t just missing the “Ryan”, that was ****-ty game planing and turtle ball play by a tomlin defense.




Salute the nation

 

[Slaine]

Depending on the year you’ll have a different most dangerous NFL city, but you can always count on a decent bit of crime in ATL, CHI, NO, WAS keeping them in the running for the title. Major cities like NY and LA can always factor in too…**** Peezy got shot in Denver…freakin’ Denver

Not sure what Dublin’s crime rate is like for comparison purposes.

Dublin has got much worse of late.

And my experience of visiting the States in the past 15 years on football trips has been almost entirely positive (including all of the ones mentioned above). We have generally stayed in reasonable downtown places but I'm not sure I ever remember feeling unsafe.

Skylar Thompson had his phone stolen, so I think it was probably just an opportunistic thing that could have happened anywhere in any big city.

 

[jitter77]

As of last July he was 98-61-2 in one loss games. That puts him as the best current coach in the league and one of the best ever in one score games. His ability to win one score games well above the mean could be a factor in lopsided playoff losses as this ability to win more close games than stats says he should helps him get less than championship caliber teams into the playoffs where they then get trounced. It also contributes to lower draft picks which negatively impact the quality of the roster. So, you could at one of his biggest strengths is actually his Achilles heel?

The problem is the assumption that the steelers roster is poor and Tomlin is elevating them. IMO we usually have a talented roster that is held back by coaching. When we had Ben we had to do how many 4th Q comebacks because the team was stuck in mud 75% of the game. Even with Pickett he was leading the league in 4th Q rating and was up there with 4th Q comebacks as well. Last week will go down as a one score game when it shouldn't have been close. The defense is living off turnovers which is not sustainable. We continue to deploy poor schemes just look at our playoff loss to Baltimore last year. I feel like a new coach would certainly address the Oline issues and not handicap the offense in general.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The problem is the assumption that the steelers roster is poor and Tomlin is elevating them. IMO we usually have a talented roster that is held back by coaching. When we had Ben we had to do how many 4th Q comebacks because the team was stuck in mud 75% of the game. Even with Pickett he was leading the league in 4th Q rating and was up there with 4th Q comebacks as well. Last week will go down as a one score game when it shouldn't have been close. The defense is living off turnovers which is not sustainable. We continue to deploy poor schemes just look at our playoff loss to Baltimore last year. I feel like a new coach would certainly address the Oline issues and not handicap the offense in general.

Excellent post jitter77, thank you.


I’ve said for many a years that the team wins in spite of the Tomlin. The system that he has employed for ever has been the downfall once the Cowher players started leaving. ROETHLISBERGER has covered a lot of “stink”, but with him gone the system has shown more clearly that it doesn’t work.

Clearly this team could be in the midst of some positive change, how far that change is willing to go is yet to be determine.



Salute the nation

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Dublin has got much worse of late.

And my experience of visiting the States in the past 15 years on football trips has been almost entirely positive (including all of the ones mentioned above). We have generally stayed in reasonable downtown places but I'm not sure I ever remember feeling unsafe.

Skylar Thompson had his phone stolen, so I think it was probably just an opportunistic thing that could have happened anywhere in any big city.

If you stayed in ATL, CHI or WAS and felt safe either your eyes weren’t open or ya don’t know what to look for.

It is partly more area specific but if ya feel safe in those towns ya just don’t know what ya don’t know…and there is a certain comfort in that

 

[Fiji Mariner]

The problem is the assumption that the steelers roster is poor and Tomlin is elevating them. IMO we usually have a talented roster that is held back by coaching. When we had Ben we had to do how many 4th Q comebacks because the team was stuck in mud 75% of the game. Even with Pickett he was leading the league in 4th Q rating and was up there with 4th Q comebacks as well. Last week will go down as a one score game when it shouldn't have been close. The defense is living off turnovers which is not sustainable. We continue to deploy poor schemes just look at our playoff loss to Baltimore last year. I feel like a new coach would certainly address the Oline issues and not handicap the offense in general.

Absolutely ^^^^^

All of this

You just uncorked a can of truths

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

The problem is the assumption that the steelers roster is poor and Tomlin is elevating them. IMO we usually have a talented roster that is held back by coaching. When we had Ben we had to do how many 4th Q comebacks because the team was stuck in mud 75% of the game. Even with Pickett he was leading the league in 4th Q rating and was up there with 4th Q comebacks as well. Last week will go down as a one score game when it shouldn't have been close. The defense is living off turnovers which is not sustainable. We continue to deploy poor schemes just look at our playoff loss to Baltimore last year. I feel like a new coach would certainly address the Oline issues and not handicap the offense in general.

It has been talented; it hasn't been deep and has been hit extremely hard in cluster injuries at very inopportune times. Again, I see your points on individual games, but the statistics are undeniable about his ability to win close games at a higher rate than any other coach presently and historically he is in the top 3 or 4. Honestly, I don't his schemes lost us the game against the Ravens last year. We were simply beat by a better team in that one. Same with the Bills and Chiefs games. Others are a different story but those 3 we had little top no chance scheme or not.

 

[SteelerFan448]

It has been talented; it hasn't been deep and has been hit extremely hard in cluster injuries at very inopportune times. Again, I see your points on individual games, but the statistics are undeniable about his ability to win close games at a higher rate than any other coach presently and historically he is in the top 3 or 4. Honestly, I don't his schemes lost us the game against the Ravens last year. We were simply beat by a better team in that one. Same with the Bills and Chiefs games. Others are a different story but those 3 we had little top no chance scheme or not.

The Steelers were going to lose either way. They were completely embarrassed because of the defensive game plan.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

The Steelers were going to lose either way. They were completely embarrassed because of the defensive game plan.

I disagree with the second half. I don't think the scheme was going to make a difference we were going to lose. And this is Mr. optimism speaking. I think that was the case the last 3 playoff appearances. We got in with inferior teams and gout trounced by better teams, scheme or not.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Its true

Thanks.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

It has been talented; it hasn't been deep and has been hit extremely hard in cluster injuries at very inopportune times. Again, I see your points on individual games, but the statistics are undeniable about his ability to win close games at a higher rate than any other coach presently and historically he is in the top 3 or 4. Honestly, I don't his schemes lost us the game against the Ravens last year. We were simply beat by a better team in that one. Same with the Bills and Chiefs games. Others are a different story but those 3 we had little top no chance scheme or not.

Bills we certainly had a chance
Mason was hot and killing it
Until Mike put the chains on him and the team

The Ravens, are you kidding me?!?!
We’ve owned those chumps
Until Mike opened a can of asinine game plan tryna fix what wasn’t broken by turning his best defensive player into Jarvis Jones

GTFOH- that Ravens gameplan was abysmal and we definitely had more than a punchers chance in both of the games if Mike doesn’t bounce down the stairs without his helmet on before coming up with his “game plans”

The Chiefs were definitely more talented and it would’ve taken a great coaching performance to level the field…all of us except a rare few realize Mike is NEVER going to come in with a great coaching performance in the playoffs…so yes vs the Chiefs we were basically dead man walking.

 

[topseed]

Sadly, Wilson was tackling to far down field. Grant it, he had a great game and a career defining tackle, but still seems to be a little down field to be considered a run stuffer. He can improve in my opinion.

So I did a little research in regards to your points here. These are the 13 tackles which Wilson made:

1) 6-yard pass
2) -2 run (solo)
3) 0 run
4) 17 pass to Jefferson
5) 7 pass (solo)
6) 29 pass to Jefferson (solo)
7) -4 pass (solo)
8) 2 run (solo)
9) 1 run
10) 5 run (solo)
11) 18 pass to Jefferson (solo)
12) 7 pass
13) 81 pass (solo)

He was involved in 5 tackles against the run, with a long of 5 yards and an average of 1.2 YPC. 4 tackles were on passes with gains of 7 yards or less, averaging 4 per catch. 3 were double-digit pass gains to Justin Jefferson, arguably the best wideout in the world. 2 of those were solo. Seems to me that might be more of a schematics issue than a Payton Wilson issue. And of course, the phenomenal play he made to possibly save the game running down Addison from behind.

In summation, Wilson played the run very well, and outside of Jefferson, also contained the short passing game proficiently. So you may want to re-think your stance. about his run-stuffing ability and where he made most of his tackles.

 

[Drink IRON City]

So I did a little research in regards to your points here. These are the 13 tackles which Wilson made:

1) 6-yard pass
2) -2 run (solo)
3) 0 run
4) 17 pass to Jefferson
5) 7 pass (solo)
6) 29 pass to Jefferson (solo)
7) -4 pass (solo)
8) 2 run (solo)
9) 1 run
10) 5 run (solo)
11) 18 pass to Jefferson (solo)
12) 7 pass
13) 81 pass (solo)

He was involved in 5 tackles against the run, with a long of 5 yards and an average of 1.2 YPC. 4 tackles were on passes with gains of 7 yards or less, averaging 4 per catch. 3 were double-digit pass gains to Justin Jefferson, arguably the best wideout in the world. 2 of those were solo. Seems to me that might be more of a schematics issue than a Payton Wilson issue. And of course, the phenomenal play he made to possibly save the game running down Addison from behind.

In summation, Wilson played the run very well, and outside of Jefferson, also contained the short passing game proficiently. So you may want to re-think your stance. about his run-stuffing ability and where he made most of his tackles.

Thanks topseed, that is some great information / break down. My misconception I’m sure was shared by others, but I will have a different eye on him now.

thanks for all you great post(s) along the way.



Salute the nation

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Bills we certainly had a chance
Mason was hot and killing it
Until Mike put the chains on him and the team

The Ravens, are you kidding me?!?!
We’ve owned those chumps
Until Mike opened a can of asinine game plan tryna fix what wasn’t broken by turning his best defensive player into Jarvis Jones

GTFOH- that Ravens gameplan was abysmal and we definitely had more than a punchers chance in both of the games if Mike doesn’t bounce down the stairs without his helmet on before coming up with his “game plans”

The Chiefs were definitely more talented and it would’ve taken a great coaching performance to level the field…all of us except a rare few realize Mike is NEVER going to come in with a great coaching performance in the playoffs…so yes vs the Chiefs we were basically dead man walking.

Have to strenuously disagree on the Ravens. We split with them when healthy and they were hurting. They were firing on all cylinders and we were firing on a single cylinder.

 

[jitter77]

Bills we certainly had a chance
Mason was hot and killing it
Until Mike put the chains on him and the team

The Ravens, are you kidding me?!?!
We’ve owned those chumps
Until Mike opened a can of asinine game plan tryna fix what wasn’t broken by turning his best defensive player into Jarvis Jones

GTFOH- that Ravens gameplan was abysmal and we definitely had more than a punchers chance in both of the games if Mike doesn’t bounce down the stairs without his helmet on before coming up with his “game plans”

The Chiefs were definitely more talented and it would’ve taken a great coaching performance to level the field…all of us except a rare few realize Mike is NEVER going to come in with a great coaching performance in the playoffs…so yes vs the Chiefs we were basically dead man walking.

I agree with everything but the chiefs. Their D was great last year but very little talent on offense besides mahomes. Kelce was not the same guy and their other WRs were inconsistent at best.