Greece

[Confluence]

I agree with this. They told Greece 5 years ago to clean up corruption, fix their tax code, get more people back to work and stop the stupid handouts. They sat on their hands, did nothing and expect other countries to keep picking up the tab.

Cut 'em loose. Let them print their own money and go back to the Drachma. Keep the door open that once they get their issues solved, then can come back into the Euro if they want to.

I know people want to bad mouth the U.S. but we aren't CLOSE to the lax and free handouts and entitlement attitudes of Greece. And I don't think we'll ever be that way.

Wrong.

The per capita government debt in Greece is half of that in the US.

What say you of the largesse of the US government???

 

[Confluence]

This picture is missing private sector debt. Seriously, who would have loaned any Greek citizens much of anything over the past several years? Not many financial institutions, which is why the Europeans and IMF backed the Greek government and central bank.....

AND

Even when you just calculate the net public debt per capita, the average US citizen has TWICE the GOVERNMENT debt that the average Greek citizen does.


http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock


It is all about the perceived ability to repay. In essence, global financial leaders are saying to Greece: you are lousy debt slaves.

What does that say of Americans (or Canadians) with twice the amount of Government debt per capita? Noodle on that for a bit.....

DEL,

Read this /\

 

[deljzc]

I consider their debt more when it's per GDP and GNP. Not per capita.

Also, when you look at that map, every major economy is in the same boat. China's debt is growing faster than ours. It goes in cycles. It's bad right now. I'm not in favor of our debt being as bad as it is, but every economist from both side of the aisle in 2008 said it would take government spending (and lots of it) to fix the economy after the bank bubble burst. I think the US is on the road to recovery. Most indicators right now are positive. Maybe not as positive as "projected" or as positive as the republicans think it should be. But positive. My company (in construction) is 10 times better now than 2-3 years ago. We're hiring as fast as we can find drug free, able body people. And everything I hear in our industry is the same. Employment is up. Job growth is up. Wages are starting to tick up (wages always lag employment stats).

I want a higher minimum wage. I want better tax code. I want less federal government spending. I think it's starting to come around. The first Clinton wasn't a crazy tax-and-spend democrat and I'm not convinced Hillary is going to come in and be Obama II.

Tons and tons of problems. But it's not Greece's problems. It's not tax evasion on a rampant scale. It's not the sheer amount of laziness and 25% unemployment (we're at 5.5%). I don't know who's responsible, Greeks, Government or Banks but they are all in trouble and are going down in flames. Germany doesn't want them in the Euro anymore.

 

[Chiba]

With debt it almost always depends on who you owe the money to.

If the government debt is owed to the people of that country, I don't see a problem with it.

If the money is borrowed from overseas, eventually you are going to have to pay it back. (or default and say "we're not slaves, please give us more money")

Just my 2c (or 10% of the Greek GDP)

 

[DBS1970]

Food for thought: the amount of German debt forgiven after they destroyed Europe would be $1.3 trillion in current dollars, while Greek debt today is just $363 billion. Germany brought their own debt crisis on themselves, while Greece's was mainly created by the big banks.

How is that? The banks forced Greece to base its economy on tourism and forced its people to have no work ethic?

 

[Spike]

So much for that vote - they just caved for more austerity and another bailout


Greece requests 3-year bailout, promises reforms

“Greece officially submitted a request for a three-year loan facility from the European Stability Mechanism also promising to implement tax reform, and pension measures”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/live/2015/jul/08/greece-battles-to-avoid-grexit-live

 

[Spike]

Athens accepts harsh austerity as bailout deal nears

The Greek government capitulated on Thursday to demands from its creditors for severe austerity measures in return for a modest debt write-off

Athens is understood to have put forward a package of reforms and public spending cuts worth €13bn (£9.3bn) to secure a third bailout from creditors that could raise $50bn and allow it to stay inside the currency union.

"The irony has not been lost on anyone - even though governing MPs are making light of it - that after the Greeks’ resounding rejection of further biting austerity at the weekend, prime minister Alexis Tsipras has with lightning speed now agreed to put his name to the most punitive austerity package any government has been asked to implement during the five years of economic crisis in Greece."

http://www.theguardian.com/business...accepts-harsh-austerity-as-bailout-deal-nears

 

[Ron Burgundy]

"The irony has not been lost on anyone - even though governing MPs are making light of it - that after the Greeks’ resounding rejection of further biting austerity at the weekend, prime minister Alexis Tsipras has with lightning speed now agreed to put his name to the most punitive austerity package any government has been asked to implement during the five years of economic crisis in Greece."

That isn't what the people voted for when they elected Tsipras. This ought to be good. He'll be lucky not to end up like Mussolini.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Posted on FB yesterday by a relatively Liberal friend of mine who recently moved to Ireland. Her hubby works for the gubmint and got transferred there.

Dear European Leaders - as a new resident to the EU, I'm as concern as anyone with the current financial crisis and the long term stability of the Euro. I realize as an American that I may not always understand your European ways, but given the current talks about lack of growth and austerity and all, I just have to ask - is it typical for companies to advertise things and then not have them available when someone tries to order or purchase them and practically beg said company to take their money? See, in the U.S., we call that COMMERCE. Little children running lemonade stands do it. Some companies don't seem to have that concept down here yet. They advertise, but either don't have the product, can't get it to you, or don't have a way of collecting the money. It's rather baffling.
Thankfully, there's Amazon. They seem to sell everything and ship it anywhere.
Yours sincerely,
XXXXXX

 

[Spike]

That isn't what the people voted for when they elected Tsipras. This ought to be good. He'll be lucky not to end up like Mussolini.

maybe a few will want his head, the rest will just blame Germany


Greeks react to new bailout package with resignation, relief

ATHENS — Greeks who voted against harsh austerity measures just last weekend accepted the government's about-face on a new bailout plan with resignation Friday, saying it's better than the economic misery they've been living with for the past few weeks.

"It seems disgusting that the government would change its perspective so quickly," said Nikos Tochovitis, 34, a worker in the maritime industry. "But we're like hostages. We have to agree with whatever the European Union decides. We cannot go on as we are."

"Syriza campaigned saying they were different than other parties, but we can see they lie and manipulate like the others," said Elina Tassi, 33, a retail store worker. "The best case for us now is that they don't get us kicked out of the European Union and that our lives can return to normal."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/07/10/greece-bailout-reaction/29973469/

 

[IndySteel]

.......................

 

[Spike]

Here we go - clashes between left wing protestors and left wing government police

Protests in Athens turn violent

twitter reports

Motolov cocktails have been let off, and the police are now tear-gassing the crowd

http://www.theguardian.com/business...s-tsipras-live#block-55a6a386e4b07f297df302b9

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The Leftys and Commies in Greece are wrong but what Germany and most of the rest of Europe wants to do won't work either.

 

[SteelChip]

View attachment 1584

 

[Tibs]

Happy to report our trip to Crete was fantastic, had a great time with the fam. We stayed in Agos Nikolaus, a quiet little town about an hour and a half from Heraklion. No sign of the trouble that's plaguing the rest of Greece. I guess all the tourist Euros are keeping the place afloat. Shops were well-stocked, restaurants & bars were in full swing. Service was above the line, really friendly people. Plus the lovely beaches, crystal clear water et al, I'd definitely go back.

Looks like the mayhem is about to commence, at least in Greece proper. Nationwide strike was announced as of tonight, and we already see the onset of rioting in Athens. Now that we're back on the continent, I can sit back and watch it all burn. Quite a shame, hope they figure out a way out of this...

 

[Spike]

Looks like you just missed the fun

did you bring me back my gold?

 

[deljzc]

When riots were happening in Ferguson was the whole United States some kind of war ghetto?

I'm sure this isn't representative of most of Greece. Not sure what's next for the country, but it sounds like this hurdle has been taken. We'll see what happens because of this in 3-5 years.

 

[Stewey]

When riots were happening in Ferguson was the whole United States some kind of war ghetto?

I'm sure this isn't representative of most of Greece. Not sure what's next for the country, but it sounds like this hurdle has been taken. We'll see what happens because of this in 3-5 years.

Another thought provoking post from dj.....I thought to myself wtf?

 

[xjx]

Greece will forever be in debt, in bad shape with European creditors and angry that that are having pensions (social security) cut, as well as any other social programs. It's hard to tighten the belt after you got fat and lazy (greek people). But they produce nothing as a country. THere is no way out for them.

 

[IndySteel]

**** Greece.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

**** Greece.

Saw that coming.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Greece will forever be in debt, in bad shape with European creditors and angry that that are having pensions (social security) cut, as well as any other social programs. It's hard to tighten the belt after you got fat and lazy (greek people). But they produce nothing as a country. THere is no way out for them.

The way out is to create jobs and employment and make it a business-friendly country and attract businesses and produce things, but that's a foreign concept to them.