Highly unlikely, but would you welcome Cowher back to the Steelers?

[Idioteque]

See thats just it im not knocking Cowher for not getting a QB. Im not. I cant. Fact is l liked Kordell Stewart. So how can I knock Cowher for playing him. I've stated over and over that I loved Bill Cowher. He was the coach who turned the Steelers back into winners. I was too young for the seventies. I was 5 in 79. So I endured the 80s. Cowher turning the team around was great. But if Tomlin is responsible for his drafts why isnt Cowher responsible for not fielding a complete team.

My point and why I argue for Tomlin is the double standards I see and maybe its only me. Tomlin gets heat for everything and no credit in my opinion. The sucess he had he doesnt even get credit for. I think that is wrong.

But that's the thing. There's no double standard because Cowher did some things noticeably well. hdoes Tomlin do noticeably well? What success has HE had? What can we point to DEFINITIVELY as something Tomlin has done really well? With all due respect, I'm not talking about roundabout things like "Well, the team had a big win against Baltimore a few years ago" or "Ike Taylor rebounded from a bad 2006 to a solid 2007."

He doesn't get credit for building a roster because his roster sucks and nearly every unit is much worse than it was when he came along.

He doesn't get credit for gameplanning because gameplanning is a major part of our problem as we have no identity on offense or defense.

He doesn't get much credit for being a great postseason coach because he and his staff have been horribly outcoached in the playoffs since 2010 - and he's missed the playoffs since 2011.

He doesn't get credit for keeping the team focused or motivated because we routinely have embarrassing losses at key points in the season. And we're a mess of penalties and turnovers.

He doesn't get credit for assembling a great coaching staff because it sucks, save for LeBeau whom he inherited.

He doesn't get credit for his gameday prowess because he routinely ***** up in-game coaching.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

But that's the thing. There's no double standard because Cowher did some things noticeably well. hdoes Tomlin do noticeably well? What success has HE had? What can we point to DEFINITIVELY as something Tomlin has done really well? With all due respect, I'm not talking about roundabout things like "Well, the team had a big win against Baltimore a few years ago" or "Ike Taylor rebounded from a bad 2006 to a solid 2007."

He doesn't get credit for building a roster because his roster sucks and nearly every unit is much worse than it was when he came along.

He doesn't get credit for gameplanning because gameplanning is a major part of our problem as we have no identity on offense or defense.

He doesn't get much credit for being a great postseason coach because he and his staff have been horribly outcoached in the playoffs since 2010 - and he's missed the playoffs since 2011.

He doesn't get credit for keeping the team focused or motivated because we routinely have embarrassing losses at key points in the season. And we're a mess of penalties and turnovers.

He doesn't get credit for assembling a great coaching staff because it sucks, save for LeBeau whom he inherited.

He doesn't get credit for his gameday prowess because he routinely ***** up in-game coaching.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Idioteque again.

 

[Steeltime]

This is just idiotic. How many teams with superb talent fail to win the SB?

Tomlin was on the verge of losing the Super Bowl to a very mediocre Cardinals team. That team outplayed the Steelers the 2nd half. But for Harrison's return and Ben driving the team 88 yards in the 4th quarter, that goes down as a huge upset.

What is remarkable is that you believe Tomlin somehow showed his coaching abilities in that game. How? Why don't you explain how the Steelers outplanned and outcoached the Cardinals ... who have since fired the guy who took them to that game, by the way. (Get the point?)

Then for you to dismiss that fact that we went to another SB 2 years after- with our QB1 out for 25% of the season? I swear some of you are bandwagon fans that just starting watching sometime during 2006...

Yes, of course, calling Tomlin a crappy coach makes me bandwagon.

Dumbfuckery called ... it's holding for you on line 1.

Look- Tomlin was given a solid group of players, but that doesn't mean ****.

Talk about idiotic.

You credit Tomlin for barely scratching out a SB win against an outmatched Cardinals team? Really? And yet you have no problem ignoring the fact that Tomlin did little while Lebeau and that defense and the defensive player of the year and one of the greatest safeties to play the game took the team to the playoffs, and won SB XLIII.

As the team becomes less-and-less Cowher and more and more Tomlin, it gets worse.

Worse defense, by a long shot.
Worse run game, despite having a very good QB and a solid RB.
Worse record.
Lack of playoffs.

Tomlin's teams are undisciplined, make the same mistakes time and again, fail to game-plan, fail to adjust, are repeatedly "surprised" by things like the Patriots going no-huddle, make poor draft choices, get very little out of 1st round selection, and are getting worse, year-by-year. Given this schedule, any record below 9-7 is just #$&*ing embarrassing.

Right now, 9-7 seems to be the best case scenario. That is Tomlin's doing. This is his team. These are his losses.

 

[antdrewjosh]

From the article i posted earlier.


The fans raged against Cowher, who was criticized for his clock management, replay challenges, forcing out Donahoe, and, as the self-proclaimed voice of the people, Mark Madden, proclaimed in a column, "The Steelers stink because of bad drafting and poor coaching." He pointed out that the 1995-99 drafts produced only eight starters. "That's pitiful," he concluded.

http://pit.scout.com/story/1470510-...lers+Struggles&utm_campaign=Content+Marketing

Now who was responsible. Cause Ive been told Cowher was responsible for building the team from only a couple of pieces to a powerhouse. So who was responsible for this period of drafting that led to 98 99 2000. Dont say Donahue cause not one of you credited Donahue earlier it was all Cowher.

 

[Idioteque]

What you're doing is ripping Cowher for a 3-yr rebuilding period.

But that's not parallel to Tomlin's current rebuilding period. Cowher had proven he could build/rebuild a team. Tomlin hasn't. You want everyone to assume Tomlin can build a great roster, but without any reason to.

 

[Steeltime]

The fans raged against Cowher ... Madden pointed out that the 1995-99 drafts produced only eight starters. "That's pitiful," he concluded.

Those drafts were not what they needed to be, but the team made the playoffs 2006, made the AFCCG in 2007 with Kordell at QB, and the selection of Edwards over Kearse was Donahoe's and not Cowher's. In fact, that dispute reportedly led to the "Cowher or Donahoe" choice in terms of GM after the 1998 draft.

Further, here are the players selected in Cowher's "down drafts" (where he was drafting in the 20's the first 3 drafts):

Mark Breuner, Kordell Stewart, Brendan Stai, Jon Witman, Earle Holmes, Orpheus Roye, Chad Scott, Alan Faneca, Hines Ward, Deshea Townsend, Joey Porter and Aaron Smith.

Those drafts are, unfortunately, better than the Tomlin drafts - you know, drafts where not a single player is still on the team from the 2008 draft. Or the 2009 draft.

 

[Wingman]

From the article i posted earlier.


The fans raged against Cowher, who was criticized for his clock management, replay challenges, forcing out Donahoe, and, as the self-proclaimed voice of the people, Mark Madden, proclaimed in a column, "The Steelers stink because of bad drafting and poor coaching." He pointed out that the 1995-99 drafts produced only eight starters. "That's pitiful," he concluded.

http://pit.scout.com/story/1470510-...lers+Struggles&utm_campaign=Content+Marketing

Now who was responsible. Cause Ive been told Cowher was responsible for building the team from only a couple of pieces to a powerhouse. So who was responsible for this period of drafting that led to 98 99 2000. Dont say Donahue cause not one of you credited Donahue earlier it was all Cowher.

I believe in another post I pointed out several folks including Donahoe who were responsible in at least part for the drafts.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What you're doing is ripping Cowher for a 3-yr rebuilding period.

But that's not parallel to Tomlin's current rebuilding period. Cowher had proven he could build/rebuild a team. Tomlin hasn't. You want everyone to assume Tomlin can build a great roster, but without any reason to.

Im ripping him really. I asked a question who was responsible? These drafts led to 98 99 and 2000. And at this point he hadnt proved he could rebuild anything.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Those drafts were not what they needed to be, but the team made the playoffs 2006, made the AFCCG in 2007 with Kordell at QB, and the selection of Edwards over Kearse was Donahoe's and not Cowher's. In fact, that dispute reportedly led to the "Cowher or Donahoe" choice in terms of GM after the 1998 draft.

Further, here are the players selected in Cowher's "down drafts" (where he was drafting in the 20's the first 3 drafts):

Mark Breuner, Kordell Stewart, Brendan Stai, Jon Witman, Earle Holmes, Orpheus Roye, Chad Scott, Alan Faneca, Hines Ward, Deshea Townsend, Joey Porter and Aaron Smith.

Those drafts are, unfortunately, better than the Tomlin drafts - you know, drafts where not a single player is still on the team from the 2008 draft. Or the 2009 draft.

Would you like to avoid the question a little more?

 

[antdrewjosh]

I believe in another post I pointed out several folks including Donahoe who were responsible in at least part for the drafts.

I didnt see you come in and post anything when others said Cowher was responsible for builing those teams. Why didnt you chime in and tell them Donahue helped. No you were perfectly fine letting them attribute it all to Cowher. Now you want say Donahue had a hand in it when I post the article.

Yeah no double standards here. Like i said its me no problem. Im done.. big game tonite. Here's to a Steeler win go Steelers.

 

[Steeltime]

Would you like to avoid tye question a little more?

The question is, "Would you take Cowher over Tomlin?" Read the thread title.

I say yes. You point out issues with Cowher's drafts, and questions about his remaining with the team, based on draft selections between 1995 and 1999. You obviously raise the point to suggest that criticism of Tomlin's picks is not well-founded.

However, I point out that Cowher's "bad" drafts were for the most part better than Tomlin's "good" drafts, particularly where Tomlin has drafted 17 in 2013 and 15 this year. Those spots compare to the Steelers drafting 27 (1995), 29 (1996), 24 (1997), 26 (1998), and 13 (1999 - the Troy Edwards pick, where Cowher wanted Kearse).

Why do I have to explain this to you?

 

[Idioteque]

And at this point he hadnt proved he could rebuild anything.

Uh. Yes. Yes he had. Have you been I'm this thread yet? LOL. Check his drafts from 92-96. And check who was in charge when Bettis and Greene came aboard.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Tomlin was on the verge of losing the Super Bowl to a very mediocre Cardinals team. That team outplayed the Steelers the 2nd half. But for Harrison's return and Ben driving the team 88 yards in the 4th quarter, that goes down as a huge upset.

What is remarkable is that you believe Tomlin somehow showed his coaching abilities in that game. How? Why don't you explain how the Steelers outplanned and outcoached the Cardinals ... who have since fired the guy who took them to that game, by the way. (Get the point?)



Yes, of course, calling Tomlin a crappy coach makes me bandwagon.

Dumbfuckery called ... it's holding for you on line 1.



Talk about idiotic.

You credit Tomlin for barely scratching out a SB win against an outmatched Cardinals team? Really? And yet you have no problem ignoring the fact that Tomlin did little while Lebeau and that defense and the defensive player of the year and one of the greatest safeties to play the game took the team to the playoffs, and won SB XLIII.

As the team becomes less-and-less Cowher and more and more Tomlin, it gets worse.

Worse defense, by a long shot.
Worse run game, despite having a very good QB and a solid RB.
Worse record.
Lack of playoffs.

Tomlin's teams are undisciplined, make the same mistakes time and again, fail to game-plan, fail to adjust, are repeatedly "surprised" by things like the Patriots going no-huddle, make poor draft choices, get very little out of 1st round selection, and are getting worse, year-by-year. Given this schedule, any record below 9-7 is just #$&*ing embarrassing.

Right now, 9-7 seems to be the best case scenario. That is Tomlin's doing. This is his team. These are his losses.

I cant with some of you.

You have this knucklehead arguing that Tomlin's SB shouldnt count towards his accomplishments because "we barely won". Hahaha
I guess you could say "we barely lost" that SB against the Packers then....

Then the rest are convinced that anyone drafted by Cowher has been on autopilot. That they have been coaching themselves since 2006.

The problem with the team is the problem with many of you. Trying to hold on to that era- leaving our salary cap in shambles. Players who are on the verge of being washed up (like the one in your Avi), will eat up our salary cap for the next 3 years. That is the problem....

 

[JJ_Steel]

I cant with some of you.

You have this knucklehead arguing that Tomlin's SB shouldnt count towards his accomplishments because "we barely won". Hahaha
I guess you could say "we barely lost" that SB against the Packers then....

Then the rest are convinced that anyone drafted by Cowher has been on autopilot. That they have been coaching themselves since 2006.

The problem with the team is the problem with many of you. Trying to hold on to that era- leaving our salary cap in shambles. Players who are on the verge of being washed up (like the one in your Avi), will eat up our salary cap for the next 3 years. That is the problem....

Right, the poor drafting, terrible game planning, lack of discipline, lack of preparedness, lack of x and o acumen, terrible in game coaching and lack of adjustments is all because of salary cap problems.

 

[Steeltime]

I cant with some of you.

You have this knucklehead arguing that Tomlin's SB shouldnt count towards his accomplishments because "we barely won".

No, dumbfuck, the point is that TOMLIN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WIN.

Seriously, why don't you tell me what he added to the game to aid the Steelers?

Meanwhile, the guy who took the sad-*** Cardinals to the game, a franchise that had not done a thing for generations, was fired for having poor seasons thereafter.

Meanwhile, you continue to suggest that Tomlin is a good coach and that criticism is unfounded.

Okay. He is good AT WHAT? Name one part of the game, or roster management, or personnel usage, or half-time preparations, or personnel decisions, or in-game coaching decisions, or challenges, or clock management that he is actually, you know, GOOD at.

I'll wait. This could take a while.

 

[F83]

As a gm yes, colbert draft's started so well as did donahoe's but both colbert draft's they look like thet are about to tip over a cliff just hanging by a thread what can push them back is (shazier jones, it looks like he hit home runs with pouncey bell brown and perhaps heyward but the rest very average- below average