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You know, maybe it just means it's better than 4-12? You get riled up about some stupid **** man.
Highly unlikely, but would you welcome Cowher back to the Steelers?
- Thread starter In Ben We Trust
- Start date
You know, maybe it just means it's better than 4-12? You get riled up about some stupid **** man.
I
Idioteque
Guest
Well, this is **** that permeates this board. So many fans are perfectly fine with 8-8 or 9-7 and consider it just fine. Let me rephrase: they hate 8-8 or 9-7 while it's happening, but when it comes time to discuss Mike Tomlin's coaching resume, they puff up 8-8 or 9-7 as a successful season. Look at Andrew's point: I seriously doubt that last season he was puffing his Steeler Fan chest and boasting about going 8-8. I'll bet he was pissed and disappointed in what a ****** season it was. But now here is, telling us last year's 8-8 finish was actually a POSITIVE mark on Tomlin's record. Because we farted out a meaningless win to jump from 7-9 to 8-8. Poof, another season of PROOF of Tomlin's magic.
Apparently, if you finished ahead of the Browns, you met the requirement for success.
To me, 4-12 and 8-8 without the playoffs are pretty much the same thing, especially when you've got a HOF QB. 8-8 is fine here and there when the team is rebuilding. But when it's NOT rebuilding - rather running on the personnel success of the previous regime and adding no talent of its own - then it's just treading water.
I'm told what a spoiled Steeler fan I am because I thought we were wayyyyy better than the Tebow-led Broncos.. because I realize how rare it is for a HOF QB and #1 defense to miss the playoffs or get bounced consistently.. That's why **** like this bothers me. It's ESPN First Take **** at its finest. Folks like this want to point to our W-L record under Tomlin, but ignore the downward slide - started 60-28, but 19-19 since. Folks like this want to point to postseason success from 4-6 years ago, but ignore the fact that we're 0-1 in the playoffs over the last three years and counting. They think Andy Reid was AWESOME in Philly and it was a bizarre coincidence his teams choked in the big game EVERY year. If your team kinda treads water for several years, clearly things are working just fine.
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That's the thing that some people don't get or won't admit. The team incrementally improved after The Chin took over, even with substantially the same players he inherited from Noll who missed the playoffs regularly. They incrementally regressed under Cool Shades despite having a roster with a number of SB rings on it.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
Who drafted and started Jarvis Jones, Ziggy Hood, Cortez Allen, Mike Adams, Gilbert and other trash that have sucked for years ?
Who is ignoring it? Who is satisfied. 19-19 is what it is. Whats the difference between 22-26? No one said it was positive. But we do have people saying he lost the team. So did the previous coach lose the team when they struggled? The previous earned the right to stick around when he struggled despite not winning the super bowl and losing multiple championships at home. The other went to two and won one and somehow hasnt earned the right to have a downtime. How does this work? Cowher didnt win the big one but drafted better so he got to stick around. Tomlin won the big one hasnt drafted as well but he should be gone. One has a so called franchise QB and holds all responsibility for why the rest of the team sucks. The other put together great teams all except a QB and its not his fault. Does anybody else see where im going with this ****..
Mike Tomlin did and he is responsible..now who the hell drafted Kordell and started him. You're the one saying Cowher didnt win because of who his QB was. Why isnt he held responsible the same way. Thats all im asking.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
Name a single franchise QB that was ever available to the Steelers during Cowher's tenure . The list is ONE, Tom Brady, who every team passed on at least 5 times.
Tomlin has had the luxury of being gift wrapped a 24 year old franchise QB that had already won a Super Bowl, Tomlin has proceeded to **** the bed by running the team into the ground wasting Ben's prime in the process. Ben was 34-12 under Cowher, he is much worse under Tomlin, why is Tomlin not held to the higher standard ?
I
Idioteque
Guest
It's certainly debatable whether Cowher deserved to stay as long as he did.
But he had already built one hell of a contending team - immediately after becoming coach. So it was clear he could build a team.
Cowher was a LB and defensive mind, and he built a phenomenal LB corps and defense. Two of them, actually. So it was clear he had coaching chops.
He had already achieved BEYOND the modest talent level he had when he took over for Noll. He took over a team that had gone 32-34 over its previous 4 seasons and IMMEDIATELY went to the playoffs 6 straight times. So it was clear he could maximize talent and contend in an AFC packed with great talent.
Can Tomlin claim this stuff? How well do those accomplishments apply to him? How's he done at building a team from the ground up? How's he done at competing WHILE rebuilding a roster? He was hired as a defensive "guru" - how's his defense developing? He was a DB coach - how are those DBs looking?
To answer your question - and it's a fair one, however irrelevant - I'm not sure Cowher deserved to be kept on board after 2000. Hell, I know I wanted him gone in 2004. But it's irrelevant. You defend Tomlin because Cowher gets a pass - whu? Does that improve our team? I'm more interested in what Tomlin DOES and CONTRIBUTES than how fait he's treated by the fans vs. Cowher. That's wholly irrelevant to Tomlin's coaching ability.
But he had already built one hell of a contending team - immediately after becoming coach. So it was clear he could build a team.
Cowher was a LB and defensive mind, and he built a phenomenal LB corps and defense. Two of them, actually. So it was clear he had coaching chops.
He had already achieved BEYOND the modest talent level he had when he took over for Noll. He took over a team that had gone 32-34 over its previous 4 seasons and IMMEDIATELY went to the playoffs 6 straight times. So it was clear he could maximize talent and contend in an AFC packed with great talent.
Can Tomlin claim this stuff? How well do those accomplishments apply to him? How's he done at building a team from the ground up? How's he done at competing WHILE rebuilding a roster? He was hired as a defensive "guru" - how's his defense developing? He was a DB coach - how are those DBs looking?
To answer your question - and it's a fair one, however irrelevant - I'm not sure Cowher deserved to be kept on board after 2000. Hell, I know I wanted him gone in 2004. But it's irrelevant. You defend Tomlin because Cowher gets a pass - whu? Does that improve our team? I'm more interested in what Tomlin DOES and CONTRIBUTES than how fait he's treated by the fans vs. Cowher. That's wholly irrelevant to Tomlin's coaching ability.
So for 12 years no trades were proposed. I mean according to you we were one player away. Why wasnt a trade ever offered. Somebody had to be better then Kordell Stewart. Right? So no trade up no trades for a vet? Nothing?
**** the bed? So winning one and getting to another is ******** the bed. And once again please tell me what row of games that Ben has been consistently the best player on the field. I must of missed them.
**** the bed? So winning one and getting to another is ******** the bed. And once again please tell me what row of games that Ben has been consistently the best player on the field. I must of missed them.
There was talent on the team Cowher took over the cupboard was not bare. But you go ahead and run with that.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
We haven't won a playoff game in 5 years and we only won under Tomlin with Cowher's players, think Cowher's players are coming back and carrying the ******** Tomlin in the future.
Tell me genius, what trades the Steelers could have made for a franchise Q, I'll wait,
Tell me genius, what trades the Steelers could have made for a franchise Q, I'll wait,
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JJ_Steel
Guest
And I consider ******** the bed losing frequently to bottom feeding teams as Tomlin does, missing the playoffs going on 50% of the time in his tenure with a franchise QB . LOsing to Tim Tebow in a playoff game is the epitome of ******** the bed.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
When are you going to answer my question? Again, name one coaching move that is above average that Tomlin has ever made .
ANYONE cause anyone would.of been better then the.guys Cowher was stuck with that he had no responsibilty for drafting or starting. Just like any corner would of been better then wasting a pick on Archer.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
You mean the talent the greatest coach in NFL history went 32-34 with ? Yeah they were loaded.
You are beyond stupid but you cry like the ***** you are that Tomlin won a Super Bowl after taking over an 8-8 team yet you now claim Cowher took over a loaded team, too stupid for words, back to your Tomlin balls
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
The Archer pick in a nutshell defines Tomlin's stupidity. On a team with huge talent holes we draft a midget who will never be a starter and pass on better players that could be starters this year or in the future. Tomlin stupidly said you can protect a QB by acquiring weapons instead of OLinemen. He has a huge gap in football knpwledge, he is football stupid.
How about getting his team out to a 3-1(couple of plays from 4-0) in 2010 start with charlie batch and Dennis Dixon with our franchise QB. How about getting Ike Taylor back on track in 2007 after he was benched. How about.letting Joey Porter go to start James Harrison. How about letting Willie Parker know it wasnt about rushing titles when he sprouted off.
Now.i said the team was loaded?? I said the cupboard wasnt bare. Rod woodson ring a bell. Greg Lloyd. Dermonti Dawson. Carnell Lake. How about you read this and tell me there was no talent when he took over.
http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/roster/1991
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
LOL< he did not let Porter go for Harrison to start. He stupidly drafted Timmons to play OLB, he was injured and could not do the job and Harrison shockingly came in and became a star.
Again name a coaching move, strategy, personnel , etc that Tomlin has ever done above average. He is a poor in game coach, useless at in game adjustments, he is not very smart and terrible at X and Os and his motivation sucks as we always come out flat and lose to bad teams with stunning regularity. He was not qualified to be a HC at any level of football and if not for the Rooney Rule he would be a lowly assistant after the Vikings would have ford him for being an awful DC.
Again name a coaching move, strategy, personnel , etc that Tomlin has ever done above average. He is a poor in game coach, useless at in game adjustments, he is not very smart and terrible at X and Os and his motivation sucks as we always come out flat and lose to bad teams with stunning regularity. He was not qualified to be a HC at any level of football and if not for the Rooney Rule he would be a lowly assistant after the Vikings would have ford him for being an awful DC.
J
JJ_Steel
Guest
Here's another question for you.
Please explain his always ******** the bed against the Raiders, the embarrassing loss to Tampa Bay, the same to the Browns, the same to the Titans, Vikings, etc last year ? Why do we suck against the dregs of the NFL which we are quickly becoming under the clueless *******.
Please explain his always ******** the bed against the Raiders, the embarrassing loss to Tampa Bay, the same to the Browns, the same to the Titans, Vikings, etc last year ? Why do we suck against the dregs of the NFL which we are quickly becoming under the clueless *******.
"The cupboard was not bare" is a bullshit description.
The 1991 Steelers had Barry Foster, an aging and ineffective Louis Lipps, and two very, very good players in Greg Lloyd and Rod Woodson.
The team's DL was a weakness. The secondary needed help. Lloyd was the only truly good LB'er.
The 1991 Steelers went 7-9. The team went 6-10, 8-7, 5-11, 9-7, 9-7 between 1987 and 1990. That totals a record of 44-51 in the six years before Cowher took over.
The team had been to the playoffs one time in the previous seven seasons before Cowher took over. Repeat, ONE TIME IN THE SEVEN PRIOR SEASONS.
So don't act like Cowher took over a powerhouse, coming off a Super Bowl win and a great championship run 2 seasons before he came on board, and with a QB who was turning 25, and a truly gifted QB, with multiple HOF players on the roster.
Meanwhile, here is who Cowher drafted his first season as HC:
Leon Searcy, Levon Kirkland, Joel Steed in the first 3 rounds and Darren Perry later. He rebuilt the Steelers defense in one draft. The next year, he drafted Chad Brown. Andre Hastings and Kevin Henry. His 1995 Super Bowl team had the following starters (Cowher selections, additions in bold):
DE Brentson Buckner
NT Joel Steed
DE Ray Seals
OLB Kevin Greene
ILB Levon Kirkland
ILB Chad Brown
OLB Greg Lloyd
CB Carnell Lake
CB Willie Williams
FS Darren Perry
SS Myron Bell
QB Neil O'Donnell
RB Eric Pegram/Bam Morris
FB John L. Williams
TE Mark Breuner
OT John Jackson
G Brendon Stai
C Dermonti Dawson
G Tom Newberry
OT Leon Searcy
WR Andre Hastings
WR Ernie MIlls
Meanwhile, Tomlin's 2008 Super Bowl Champions featured two of his players who did anything - Lawrence Timmons and Matt Spaeth.
Seriously, Timmons and Spaeth, and Tomlin is credited with winning with that team? As if he had anything to do with it.
He did have hardy Nickerson also who was a excellent lb. with that being said Tomlin sucks and I don't know why you guys waste your time with this clown
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I
Idioteque
Guest
Yeah, there were a few pieces. And that talent-laden core was 32-34 over the previous four seasons. How'd they do under Cowher?
You're further veering this discussion toward Cowher and coming up with silly **** to credit Tomlin with. Tomlin is credited for re-making Ike a good player? Wow. He's the reason we started 3-1 without Ben? Hilarious. Of course, he's not to blame for our brainfarts and losing to **** teams, but he deserves the credit for all wins. And he said something about Willie Parker in a press conference? Wow, he truly is King of Kings.
Cowher stuck with Stewart as starting QB for what, five years, six? Not a high point of the coach's resume.
Even us Message Board Mensas knew that was a mistake about two years in.
Even us Message Board Mensas knew that was a mistake about two years in.