How much did Shazier shrink? He looks 212 lbs.

[POP]

No, I am not saying it's a done deal and the end of the story...but, not only did Jones appear to be completely ineffective, again, but Shazier looks to be back at this college weight, which is a disturbing thought. If, as I have said, his extra 20 lbs of muscle he added from his football days to the combine was born of PEDs (juice and HGH) then we may have spent a mid-level first round pick on a 212 LB ILB.

He makes not a bit of difference out there. Being "fast" at ILB is meaningless if you get pushed around like feather out there. He had a TOTAL of TWO tackles yesterday. Two?

And Jones clearly can move anyone. If you want to see what a REAL OLB looks like in a 3-4, just watch Harrison. Offenses don't have to fear Jones whatsoever.

Oh and before anyone says, "They are still young, they will grow into their positions" I say take a look at the LB in Oakland, Mack. He's just a rookie and he needs no excuses; he is smashing it. He has 73 tackles and 4 sacks. He's also 6-3 and 254 lbs.
On a more positive note, Everything is coming together at the perfect time for us and the play offs, and that is my main focus, obviously. But looking into the future, if they blew it on both those draft picks, it's gonna hurt us or a very long time.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

No, I am not saying it's a done deal and the end of the story...but, not only did Jones appear to be completely ineffective, again, but Shazier looks to be back at this college weight, which is a disturbing thought. If, as I have said, his extra 20 lbs of muscle he added from his football days to the combine was born of PEDs (juice and HGH) then we may have spent a mid-level first round pick on a 212 LB ILB.

He makes not a bit of difference out there. Being "fast" at ILB is meaningless if you get pushed around like feather out there. He had a TOTAL of TWO tackles yesterday. Two?

And Jones clearly can move anyone. If you want to see what a REAL OLB looks like in a 3-4, just watch Harrison. Offenses don't have to fear Jones whatsoever.

Oh and before anyone says, "They are still young, they will grow into their positions" I say take a look at the LB in Oakland, Mack. He's just a rookie and he needs no excuses; he is smashing it. He has 73 tackles and 4 sacks. He's also 6-3 and 254 lbs.
On a more positive note, Everything is coming together at the perfect time for us and the play offs, and that is my main focus, obviously. But looking into the future, if they blew it on both those draft picks, it's gonna hurt us or a very long time.

Khalil Mack was drafted #5 overall by the Oakland Raiders. Given his draft spot and the team that he plays for, there was no doubt that he would start from day one. He was as close to a can't miss prospect as you can find, and in my dreams, I wanted him to fall, fall, fall. That said, Shazier was doing good for a rookie in this system until he ran into a couple of injuries. When he came back the team had started a rotation of Williams and Spence that was playing well and Shazier was behind the eight ball as far as meshing with the other members of the defense. Although they play different positions, the cries of "Bustamalou" concerning Troy should have taught us to have a lil patience with these first round picks. Give Shazier at least til next year before we start even whispering "bust".

Jarvis Jones, next year is your third year .... the whispers have started and are building to a crescendo.

 

[madinsomniac]

Yes I am way more leery of Jones than Shazier being a bust. Shazier was a guy whose game is all about speed... jones doesn't have the strength to beat olinemen and isn't really a speed guy... Im pretty sure somewhere TMC and others are crowing about being right about Jones, and they may well be....

 

[21STEELERS21]

Maybe Shazier takes Troy's place. Williams/Spence look good at ILB.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I am wondering though if the mentoring of Porter AND Harrison has had any impact on Howard Jones (assuming such mentoring has occurred). If there was ever a man who the coaching staff could point to and tell Howard, "See that guy over there? Well, with the proper training, motivation and desire, that could be you", it's Harrison. If I were Howard, I'd be on Harrison at every chance. Picking his brain, asking questions, watching how he prepares, the whole deal. And to have Porter available too? C'mon!

 

[blitzburghv5]

Vince Williams is starter material (or close to it) if you ask me....now way should we let this guy get away. Hes got passion, attitude and a lick to hand out.

 

[Roy92040]

Maybe Shazier takes Troy's place. Williams/Spence look good at ILB.

I've been thing the same thing.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Vince Williams is starter material (or close to it) if you ask me....now way should we let this guy get away. Hes got passion, attitude and a lick to hand out.

Possibility that if Williams, Spence and Shazier develop, they don't re-sign Timmons? Timmons will be what 30 in 2016 when his contract is up?

 

[POP]

Khalil Mack was drafted #5 overall by the Oakland Raiders. Given his draft spot and the team that he plays for, there was no doubt that he would start from day one. He was as close to a can't miss prospect as you can find, and in my dreams, I wanted him to fall, fall, fall. That said, Shazier was doing good for a rookie in this system until he ran into a couple of injuries. When he came back the team had started a rotation of Williams and Spence that was playing well and Shazier was behind the eight ball as far as meshing with the other members of the defense. Although they play different positions, the cries of "Bustamalou" concerning Troy should have taught us to have a lil patience with these first round picks. Give Shazier at least til next year before we start even whispering "bust".

Jarvis Jones, next year is your third year .... the whispers have started and are building to a crescendo.

Not totally grasping the system, and being a rookie is one thing and I won't over-react to that end of things. But did you see him play yesterday? He looked really small out there. No wonder he is so fast. There is no way he is playing at around 240 which what he is listed at. He isn't even 220. I don't think a 212 lb ILB cuts it in the NFL - not today. You don't have to be a 260 lb banger, like some teams have, but the eye test tells me Shazier is too small. He honestly doesn't look much bigger than Troy. But he might be too big to truly cover WRs, and a safety often has to.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I understand the small thing, he could definitely stand to add a lil weight, and I think his frame will allow him to add 15 Lbs or so. Didn't Farrior play at like 220 for most of his career (and that was at the Buck)? The idea of moving him to Safety is intriguing, but I have to wonder about whether it could succeed. He's played OLB/ILB ever since he was a kid. Having the speed to do something and having the training to do something are two different things. By moving Shazier to Safety, you are effectively taking your 1st round ILB draft pick and making him into a project player.

 

[scstillerfan]

Carnell played LB in college. I wonder how Shazier's speed matches up with Lake's? Hell, our safeties can't cover anyway, can't see Shazier being worse.

 

[Tibs]

They are still young, they will grow into their positions.

 

[POP]

Possibility that if Williams, Spence and Shazier develop, they don't re-sign Timmons? Timmons will be what 30 in 2016 when his contract is up?

I think Timmons is underrated, but, the general rule, is do not resign players after they hit 30, unless they are very special, or a QB. Troy, Harrison and Ward were the exceptions.

 

[POP]

I understand the small thing, he could definitely stand to add a lil weight, and I think his frame will allow him to add 15 Lbs or so. Didn't Farrior play at like 220 for most of his career (and that was at the Buck)? The idea of moving him to Safety is intriguing, but I have to wonder about whether it could succeed. He's played OLB/ILB ever since he was a kid. Having the speed to do something and having the training to do something are two different things. By moving Shazier to Safety, you are effectively taking your 1st round ILB draft pick and making him into a project player.

I think he is a true tweener. He seems too small to play LB, but he is just stalky enough to not be able to cover WRs, which, as a safety, you surely have to. He is blazing fast for a LB, but I have seen him look like he gets lost in the wash. At this point, he' s our 4th best ILB.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Nothing against Shazier, but you can get away with a guy like Williams (and now Spence) at inside linebacker when you have a player like Timmons next to him and better playmakers elsewhere.

 

[POP]

OK, so no one is addressing how he put on 20 lbs of muscle from end of season until combine. It looked very unnatural to me. If it was, and if he is no longer on anything, then it could change the entire evaluation process of what we got as a player. He looked MUCH smaller to me last game vs. what he looked like coming out of combine.

 

[Spike]

Troy looks like he weighs 240 - so it all evens out.

 

[Skott]

Vince Williams is starter material (or close to it) if you ask me....now way should we let this guy get away. Hes got passion, attitude and a lick to hand out.

And he is 100% hard as he can on every play it seems. Motor just keeps going and going. He's been an effective player for the Steelers this year, yet just doesn't seem to get the love.

 

[Skott]

OK, so no one is addressing how he put on 20 lbs of muscle from end of season until combine. It looked very unnatural to me. If it was, and if he is no longer on anything, then it could change the entire evaluation process of what we got as a player. He looked MUCH smaller to me last game vs. what he looked like coming out of combine.

He was also injured and probably wasn't able to work out as hard as it's needed to keep that muscle, etc. If you don't work out, the muscle doesn't just stay around because it likes you.

 

[Rod Farva]

Troy looks like he weighs 240 .

That's on account a his huge head.

 

[POP]

He was also injured and probably wasn't able to work out as hard as it's needed to keep that muscle, etc. If you don't work out, the muscle doesn't just stay around because it likes you.

He had a bad ankle, right? Nothing would stop him from working upper body, chest, bis, tris, lats, delts. My hunch is he knew he wasn't gonna be playing for a while so he got off PEDs - that is pure conjecture and a guess, but something made him deflate pretty radically.

According to this vid, we reached when we took him; they had him go late first to mid 2nd, 25-50 range. So far, I wouldn't disagree with this guy about what his takes were on him.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

He had a bad ankle, right? Nothing would stop him from working upper body, chest, bis, tris, lats, delts. My hunch is he knew he wasn't gonna be playing for a while so he got off PEDs - that is pure conjecture and a guess, but something made him deflate pretty radically.

According to this vid, we reached when we took him; they had him go late first to mid 2nd, 25-50 range. So far, I wouldn't disagree with this guy about what his takes were on him.

Other sites had him going mid to late first. As has been pointed out, he was definitely going to Dallas right behind us. So, I wouldn't say he was a reach, and like I said in another post, his first year isn't even behind him. It's a little early to be insinuating he's a bust.

Just for transparency, I didn't want him or any other ILB at that spot, but the draft didn't fall the way I hoped it would and my top picks (all CBs) were gone. In hindsight, if they were going to take a Buckeye, I wouldn't have minded Roby.

 

[Stryker]

Did you put him on the scale and see a drop in weight? Did you administer PEDs or watch him take them?

Plus he only had 20 snaps on D. I ain't worried yet.

 

[POP]

Did you put him on the scale and see a drop in weight? Did you administer PEDs or watch him take them?

Plus he only had 20 snaps on D. I ain't worried yet.

I have two working eyes and could plainly see he is physically smaller than he was at the combine and in the preseason. You don't have to be a psychic to see the obvious. That much muscle gain and loss is not natural unless someone goes from not lifting at all to lifting like an animal to going back to not lifting at all. I am quite sure he wa lifting weights at OSU and didn't just start right before the combine.

 

[fogdoctor]

I was not in love the with Shazier pick but he is a freak athlete. And I am sure he went on some gear - so what? Most of the NFL is on something.

As far as the Jones pick - Nobody (at least I don't) wants him to fail but he does not have the size, strength, or speed to make any impact in the NFL.