I felt my CONservative friends here are in need of watching this

[Elfiero]

No I am not. Don't give me that crap. YOU posted a quote in which Lennon says, basically, love should never be questioned. Now you want to try to say what Lennon meant. How the heck do you know? And don't tell me things will never be tolerated. How do you know that as well? As I said, my grandparents simply could not conceive of the things that were being tolerated by society in their later years. We have no idea what 50 years from now will look like.

For some reason, I will never forget an interview Richard Chamberlain gave sometime in the early 1990s, I think. Maybe earlier. He was doing some mini-series. The guy was the king of mini-series. Anyway, he talked about the fact that somewhere, in older times (it may have been Japan, was there a mini-series Shogun or something?) that older men routinely had young boy lovers. He felt this was fine. Again, he used the term "love."

I guess what I am trying to say is how can it be a strawman argument when there are people(like the daughter with the father, Richard Chamberlain) who have tried to advance the argument?

You seem to confuse love with sex, which is quite common for the average Christian. They seem to be obsessed with it. My words on Lennon are an opinion having read a lot of the things he said and none of them indicating that he was a deviant.

Your grandparents lived at a time when black people could not eat a restaurant where white people ate, or numerous other examples. They grew up at a time when the authority of the church and intentions of the state were never questioned. That they would be shocked by people finally being allowed to exercise their rights as American citizens comes as no surprise.

Our morality is evolving and as we have become aware that it is subjective as opposed to being objectively given by some lawgiver in the sky it has allowed us to fight against slavery, exploitation of children, women being treated as property, etc. All these things approved of and defended by Christians citing the bible as their 'moral authority' Thanks to secular humanism we are starting to actually see the dream of the founders realized.

All I can say on Richard Chamberlain is if he said that then he is a sick SOB. We will never (as long as we truly uphold human rights as a country) go back to exploiting/abusing children, animals, etc.

As someone else said the issue concerns consenting adults.

 

[diver]

I do not quite understand how, if I do not agree with a lifestyle, I hate something. I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, however, I have always shown any homosexual I have known or come in contact with the utmost respect, like I would anybody. Heck, my one uncle, after over 20 years of marriage and 3 kids came home one day and told his family he was gay. The extended family, without question overwhelmingly those evil conservatives, never ostracized him or his partner in any way.

 

[Elfiero]

That's your exceedingly narrow worldview, not my own.

No..no. You see you can't correct the social problems created by the past without funding certain programs by the government to start and accelerate that process. You either are or your not.

It's not a world view, it's reality.

 

[Vader]

For those of you discussing the nature of homosexuality; all the legit research points to the belief that science has held for the past ~25 years, that it's genetic.

Because it's so hard to isolate the genes though is why there is still some doubt,but the latest research reinforces that idea.

Sorry bible thumpers maybe the Koch brothers can find some researchers they can pay off to 'find' what you want them to find.

So they haven't done it but you know it's genetic? Talk about faith....

 

[diver]

You seem to confuse love with sex, which is quite common for the average Christian. They seem to be obsessed with it. My words on Lennon are an opinion having read a lot of the things he said and none of them indicating that he was a deviant.

Your grandparents lived at a time when black people could not eat a restaurant where white people ate, or numerous other examples. They grew up at a time when the authority of the church and intentions of the state were never questioned. That they would be shocked by people finally being allowed to exercise their rights as American citizens comes as no surprise.

Our morality is evolving and as we have become aware that it is subjective as opposed to being objectively given by some lawgiver in the sky it has allowed us to fight against slavery, exploitation of children, women being treated as property, etc. All these things approved of and defended by Christians citing the bible as their 'moral authority' Thanks to secular humanism we are starting to actually see the dream of the founders realized.

All I can say on Richard Chamberlain is if he said that then he is a sick SOB. We will never (as long as we truly uphold human rights as a country) go back to exploiting/abusing children, animals, etc.

As someone else said the issue concerns consenting adults.

Again, I am not confusing anything. I did not try to hide some type of deviant behavior by calling it "love." The daughter with the father did that. Richard Chamberlain did that. I am simple trying to caution that it is conceivable that the 'love" excuse could be used to justify certain things. Believe me, I would have never connected the two either if someone else hadn't done it.

 

[Troglodyte]

Ask your grandparents if they could envision a day in which homosexuality would have been seen as "love."

I am sorry. This will offend people, but I just don't care. I don't believe homosexuality is right. .

My grandmother, who would be 91 if she were still alive, had a brother who was gay. They were the best of friends and would vacation with him and his partner (both army veterans with strong beliefs in civil service, btw). I think she could have envisioned it.

She also had a sister who was (legally) married to a physically abusive alcoholic.

I don't think homosexuality is normal, but I don't care, it's other peoples sex.

The GOP's reluctance to get over this (along with marijuana) I fear will be the reason we won't have a fiscally conservative president for the foreseeable future.

The grandmas and grandpas who elected Reagan and the Bushes are mostly dead. There's no future in anti-gay politics.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

No..no. You see you can't correct the social problems created by the past without funding certain programs by the government to start and accelerate that process. You either are or your not.

It's not a world view, it's reality.

According to you. That is such a arrogant view. The type of view you attribute to right wingers. You make blanket statements claiming infallibility but use facts that's are not facts but theories or are outright lies. I am not one to attribute infallibility to either sides dogma, and am not blindly loyal to Science or Religon. YOu just completely discount one side and don't leave any room to be wrong in your beliefs. Isn't that what you criticize about the Right?

 

[diver]

My grandmother, who would be 91 if she were still alive, had a brother who was gay. They were the best of friends and would vacation with him and his partner (both army veterans with strong beliefs in civil service, btw). I think she could have envisioned it.

She also had a sister who was (legally) married to a physically abusive alcoholic.

I don't think homosexuality is normal, but I don't care, it's other peoples sex.

The GOP's reluctance to get over this (along with marijuana) I fear will be the reason we won't have a fiscally conservative president for the foreseeable future.

The grandmas and grandpas who elected Reagan and the Bushes are mostly dead. There's no future in anti-gay politics.

My grandmother died at 99. She had a gay son, my uncle. She was very accepting. However, she never discussed it, either, which led me to believe that while being accepting, as we all have been, she never quite understood it.

I don't really care either. However, I feel I have the right to disagree with something. I am not running around doing anything that would harm gay people, and as long as I respect them, I have the right to disagree.

What are the anti-gay politics? I don't quite understand how a party that refuses to condemn what is being done to gays and women in Islamic countries is considered the champion of gays and women, and the party that condemns it, isn't.

Let's let the marijuana thing play out a bit. The Governor of Colorado has stated he thinks legalizing it has been a mistake. I don't remember the context of why he said that, but he did say he feels it was a mistake. Maybe the Repubs are not that far off with their opposition to that one.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

That's your exceedingly narrow worldview, not my own.

Don't you know that all Conservatives hate all gay people? Get with the program. You're not holding up your end of the stereotype.

 

[oneforthebus]

No..no. You see you can't correct the social problems created by the past without funding certain programs by the government to start and accelerate that process. You either are or your not.

It's not a world view, it's reality.

Show me where a government program has "corrected the social problems created by the past." Ultimately, it is liberty and self-determination that have corrected most of the world's social problems. Not more government.

 

[Elfiero]

Show me where a government program has "corrected the social problems created by the past." Ultimately, it is liberty and self-determination that have corrected most of the world's social problems. Not more government.

I'll give you one example out of millions, I bet your a Ben Carson fan? Am I wrong?

1. raised by a single mother
2. raised in public housing
3. fed with food stamps.
4. supported with welfare wasnt-dependent-on-government
5. kept healthy with medicaid…
6. educated in public schools
7. got eyeglasses from state agency
8. benefited from affirmative action to enter college
9. used federal loans and Pell grants in undergrad school
10. benefited from affirmative action to enter medical school
11. med school paid for with grant from USPHS*
12. said: “The disintegration of the family unit and the welfare state are enslaving African-Americans and ruining their futures.”

Ben Carson's mother had a 3rd grade education.....what historical situation do you think caused her to be in that situation? Ben Carson would have ended up dropping out of school and working menial jobs(if not incarcerated or a bum) if it hadn't been for those programs.

Liberty and self-determination are meaningless without food security,health, and education. Carson sadly now is a graduate of that CONservative school of "F*** You I got mine!" Disgusting.

 

[Booted]

Don't you know that all Conservatives hate all gay people? Get with the program. You're not holding up your end of the stereotype.

The rest of us are just gonna have to hate a little extra to hold up onefor's end of the deal. It's gonna be tough. I don't know if I could hate any more than I already do but, I'll give it a shot.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I'll give you one example out of millions, I bet your a Ben Carson fan? Am I wrong?

1. raised by a single mother
2. raised in public housing
3. fed with food stamps.
4. supported with welfare wasnt-dependent-on-government
5. kept healthy with medicaid…
6. educated in public schools
7. got eyeglasses from state agency
8. benefited from affirmative action to enter college
9. used federal loans and Pell grants in undergrad school
10. benefited from affirmative action to enter medical school
11. med school paid for with grant from USPHS*
12. said: “The disintegration of the family unit and the welfare state are enslaving African-Americans and ruining their futures.”

Ben Carson's mother had a 3rd grade education.....what historical situation do you think caused her to be in that situation? Ben Carson would have ended up dropping out of school and working menial jobs(if not incarcerated or a bum) if it hadn't been for those programs.

Liberty and self-determination are meaningless without food security,health, and education. Carson sadly now is a graduate of that CONservative school of "F*** You I got mine!" Disgusting.

Like a typical Libtard...if he's black and conservative, he may as well be white, will be defiled, and considered an Uncle Tom. Every black conservative ever has been attacked by your Conservative party. If he's black and Liberal, well he can get away with murder.

Racism on stage.

 

[Elfiero]

Like a typical Libtard...if he's black and conservative, he may as well be white, will be defiled, and considered an Uncle Tom. Every black conservative ever has been attacked by your Conservative party. If he's black and Liberal, well he can get away with murder.

Racism on stage.

What does race have to do with the man being a hypocrite?

 

[diver]

If all of that was the reason, we would have most kids coming out of that situation with college degrees and being productive members of society. We don't. Why not?

 

[bmoritz]

Once again, you are getting mixed up with the perception of gays in Hollywood, the media, etc vs. real people. It in no way resembles what average gay people deal with in normal reality. It's not glitz and glamor like it is on the movie screen and at Hollywood premieres. For a whole lot of them it stinks....badly and takes years and years to become comfortable with the person they are. That is a hell of a charade to go through 20 years of therapy and 4 suicide attempts just to get attention.

For every flamboyant gay guy strutting his **** at a fashion show or the red carpet, there are 10,000 who are hiding every feeling and every thought they have from everyone close to them out of shame and fear.

No, I'm not mixing up anything. I am talking about gays in real life, that I've seen with my own eyes. Some are very nice, down to Earth people. Many are militant in their homosexuality, and expect to have their *** kissed just for being gay. What you're talking about was probably the norm 20 years ago, NOT ANYMORE! They are now a "special" class that is elevated by society above everybody else.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

What does race have to do with the man being a hypocrite?

Because one man's success story doesn't make the programs mentioned a winner. There are thousands of "bootstrap" stories out there, but I'm sure you'd dismiss them as anectdotal. Our bloated government wastes and robs. Dr. Carson just might be able to look past his story to see the overall effect of government reliance on the rest of his race. Just a thought.

 

[Supersteeler]

No, I'm not mixing up anything. I am talking about gays in real life, that I've seen with my own eyes. Some are very nice, down to Earth people. Many are militant in their homosexuality, and expect to have their *** kissed just for being gay. What you're talking about was probably the norm 20 years ago, NOT ANYMORE! They are now a "special" class that is elevated by society above everybody else.

Either you live in a VERY different area from all the places I have ever lived or you are seeing things that aren't there. If you are talking about the radical gay pride parades they have out in California, then sure I can see how that could be classified as militant gays throwing it in your face. That isn't everyday life. That is a public display by the most loud, in your face gay people around and is specifically designed to get a reaction and be controversial. Not one gay person I have ever come in contact with ever marched around the office or outside in the street demanding stuff and wanting to be treated differently than everyone else. They go to school/work, go shopping, go out for dinner, spend time with a significant other.....the same things that anyone else does. Where do you come in contact with these militant, annoying, "I'm better than you are, so give me special privileges" gay people? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[SteelChip]

There's been a migration of sorts from California to Texas. It seems some of the left leaners even want to flee the oppressive State gov't and it's taxes. As a result Texas had to print up a translation index for the transplants so they could fully understand what Texans was a talkin' 'bout.

The next to the last is the one most misunderstood by the left....

 

[oneforthebus]

I'll give you one example out of millions, I bet your a Ben Carson fan? Am I wrong?

1. raised by a single mother
2. raised in public housing
3. fed with food stamps.
4. supported with welfare wasnt-dependent-on-government
5. kept healthy with medicaid…
6. educated in public schools
7. got eyeglasses from state agency
8. benefited from affirmative action to enter college
9. used federal loans and Pell grants in undergrad school
10. benefited from affirmative action to enter medical school
11. med school paid for with grant from USPHS*
12. said: “The disintegration of the family unit and the welfare state are enslaving African-Americans and ruining their futures.”

Ben Carson's mother had a 3rd grade education.....what historical situation do you think caused her to be in that situation? Ben Carson would have ended up dropping out of school and working menial jobs(if not incarcerated or a bum) if it hadn't been for those programs.

Liberty and self-determination are meaningless without food security,health, and education. Carson sadly now is a graduate of that CONservative school of "F*** You I got mine!" Disgusting.

I didn't say give me an example of one person government programs helped, obviously they help some and some need them. I said give me an example of a SOCIAL PROBLEM government programs have corrected. If Ben Carson could do all that because of all of those government programs, why can't so many others? Why is it despite the fact that we are spending more on welfare programs right now since the depression, poverty is actually up?

 

[ark steel]

I didn't say give me an example of one person government programs helped, obviously they help some and some need them. I said give me an example of a SOCIAL PROBLEM government programs have corrected. If Ben Carson could do all that because of all of those government programs, why can't so many others? Why is it despite the fact that we are spending more on welfare programs right now since the depression, poverty is actually up?

Elfie aint big on critical thinking. If it ain't copying/pasting other people's thoughts, he doesn't have anything. I don't know why you people still respond to that fool.

 

[Troglodyte]

What are the anti-gay politics? I don't quite understand how a party that refuses to condemn what is being done to gays and women in Islamic countries is considered the champion of gays and women, and the party that condemns it, isn't.

Let's let the marijuana thing play out a bit. The Governor of Colorado has stated he thinks legalizing it has been a mistake. I don't remember the context of why he said that, but he did say he feels it was a mistake. Maybe the Repubs are not that far off with their opposition to that one.

I think it's a big reach that the dems don't condemn what ISIS is doing. Regardless, socially liberal American voters care more about candidates stance on gay rights than ISIS.

I'm sure there were a lot of people 20 years ago that said Las Vegas and Atlantic City were mistakes, it didn't stop the recent proliferation of casinos.

There's a very strong argument that alcohol should be illegal, but it's not what the majority of voters want.

 

[Troglodyte]

Why is it despite the fact that we are spending more on welfare programs right now since the depression, poverty is actually up?

Isn't welfare spending spending on the impoverished? Isn't what you are saying kinda like saying "We're spending more on defense right now since WWII, why is the number of wars we're involved in up?"

 

[oneforthebus]

Isn't welfare spending spending on the impoverished? Isn't what you are saying kinda like saying "We're spending more on defense right now since WWII, why is the number of wars we're involved in up?"

The point is that government programs have never and will never eliminate poverty. In fact they can create a cycle of government dependence and reward behaviors that encourage poverty rather than alleviate it.

We have all this aid for higher education, the result being that higher education has become so ridiculously expensive that normal working people cannot afford to pay for it without aid. We have all of these subsidies for having children, the result being that irresponsible procreation has exploded (despite birth control and abortion being more widely available and cheaper than ever). We have "free" or heavily subsidized healthcare that is driving down the full time employment and wages that could ultimately lift people out of poverty. These programs aren't fixing social problems, they are exacerbating them.

 

[ark steel]

Isn't welfare spending spending on the impoverished? Isn't what you are saying kinda like saying "We're spending more on defense right now since WWII, why is the number of wars we're involved in up?"

That is a terrible analogy.