You coach. Coachable and being able to learn can be two different things. One thing that is overlooked about those Steelers teams in the 70s is how smart they were. Everyone saw Lambert out there snarling with no teeth. But he was a damn smart player. Ham. All over that team. Maybe in some cases the athletes are bigger, stronger and faster today, but I do wonder if they are as football smart. They get by on their great talent in high school and even college, but you gotta have some football smarts in the pros.
I just dont get the oline
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Plus you are not retarded, just frustrated and obstinate. Lol
Do they exist to the degree they used to? I'm not so sure. It isn't their fault as much. Look at college ball. The team comes up to the LOS, the whole team looks over to the coach for the call. It makes me crazy. They don't really have to think. I'm not sure they are developing football smarts as much in college.
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If the players are all less capable then they used to be, why haven’t the Steelers won a playoff game in almost a decade? They got routed by other dummies with capable coaches like the stains assistant and whomever thought that Bortles or Tebow should start a playoff game?
Please
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It has to be a lot on the coaches and scheme. they do not change. if we know this, my guess is opponents certainly know it
Wait a minute. I'm not saying what I am saying as some defense of Tomlin. For the love. But players have to be able to learn. It's just common sense. And maybe for whatever reason the Steelers don't have enough of those guys. The coaching hasn't been good enough, either.
It can be both, can't it?
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I get that it's preseason and the game plan was vanilla. That doesn't excuse guys from being thrown around like ragdolls and not having any response. Missing blocks and assignments is understandable - what happened last night was not. That's on the players not the coaches.
Above everything else IMO they had players with talent. Great talent.
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You do realize that it can be BOTH, right? Why even have coaches if they don’t do anything, or are responsible anything either.
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I've never understood why NFL teams limit spending on assistant coaches. I'm pulling a number out of thin air here. Let's say you budget 15 million for non HC coaches. Double it to 30. It's worth more then one extra 15 million dollar player for sure. In fact I'd strongly argue if you took Tomlins salary and paid top dollar for the assistants you could do better with a low level HC. The Assistants do the hands on teaching.
Oh, cmon. The fact is it is both. Players play. Coaches don't miss blocks and tackles. No one is absolving the coaches. All that is being said is that blaming the coaches for everything isn't the right answer either.
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Last year especially at the beginning we had a lot of free rushers coming through. There were several breakdowns by various people showing how poor the scheme was. Some of it was communication as well, but I think most of that falls on coaches. In the preseason guys are getting flat out beat. Defenses are not even scheming so it could be scary once the season starts. Hopefully they get it together very quickly
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A vanilla game plan has zero to do with an offensive lineman continually getting steam rolled. I don't give two craps about the final score on the scoreboard Saturday. I do give a crap about winning one on one battles.
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That blueprint has all ready been shown here……….. When Tomlin was first hired…… our Assistant coaches were top grade.
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The Panthers tried that last year with their “all star” coaching hires they thought they were making. Brought in Reich who was a top candidate and then paid up for senior advisors like Caldwell and Capers and spent good coin on assistants too
By mid season the situation was described as “hunger games” with all the great minds coming after each other
Not saying it has to play out like that, but a lot of leadership is about the structure of the entire staff too. Guys have to mesh well and play their roles. Too many alphas not always the answer.
But 100 do believe Tomlin takes it to the other extreme surrounding himself with guys that don’t threaten his position in the organization in any way shape or form.
A happy medium would be nice to try like adding a competent OL coach and having some good X and O coordinators.
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Pre-season or not, the outside zone blocking scheme is very intricate. It's obvious some of you don't understand it, so let me break it down for you.
Strengths:
1. focuses on attacking space rather than specific players so it adapts to different defensive alignments
2. horizontal stress on defenses to open up cutback lanes
3. Less physical demand on OL, requires more finesse and technique
4. Exploits over aggressive MLB
Weaknesses:
1. Reliance on running back vision to recognize blocks and make quick decisions to explode into the lane.
2. Communication and coordination is the keystone of the scheme. Everyone must be on the same page or it all goes wrong.
3. Boom or bust nature. There is no consistency in the scheme, there will be chunk yardage and then no gain or losses.
4. Vulnerability to DL penetrating and blowing up plays.
I tried to implement an outside zone offense one year and the HC made me change it as the OL just weren't getting it. It's difficult. I changed to a power I and pulled the guards (small o-linemen) and let the bigger backs take on backers. Simple, but it works at a High School level.
I also noticed that Smith is using the TE's to inside trap the DT/NT and Washington in particular was doing a decent job of it. This is going to take some time to develop. It doesn't help playing musical chairs with the players either. Coaches should have figured out this **** before game 2 of the pre-season.
Strengths:
1. focuses on attacking space rather than specific players so it adapts to different defensive alignments
2. horizontal stress on defenses to open up cutback lanes
3. Less physical demand on OL, requires more finesse and technique
4. Exploits over aggressive MLB
Weaknesses:
1. Reliance on running back vision to recognize blocks and make quick decisions to explode into the lane.
2. Communication and coordination is the keystone of the scheme. Everyone must be on the same page or it all goes wrong.
3. Boom or bust nature. There is no consistency in the scheme, there will be chunk yardage and then no gain or losses.
4. Vulnerability to DL penetrating and blowing up plays.
I tried to implement an outside zone offense one year and the HC made me change it as the OL just weren't getting it. It's difficult. I changed to a power I and pulled the guards (small o-linemen) and let the bigger backs take on backers. Simple, but it works at a High School level.
I also noticed that Smith is using the TE's to inside trap the DT/NT and Washington in particular was doing a decent job of it. This is going to take some time to develop. It doesn't help playing musical chairs with the players either. Coaches should have figured out this **** before game 2 of the pre-season.
That is the Steelers biggest issue. Let Jones develop at LT. Either let someone else take over at RT until Troy is healthy or bring in a vet RT. Let iron sharpen iron and develop. Stop trying to put emphasis on versatility and put more emphasis on development.
It is basic common sense. If I was the owner this is what I would demand. This is an aspect of Tomlin’s philosophy that does need to change.
Agreed. They are not doing their young players any favors. Put Jones where the hell he belongs at left, Fatanu at right, and Moore at right if Fatanu isn't healthy. If Moore can't handle right, he sits. I like Moore, I think he's a tough kid. But I don't understand what they are doing there.
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Can't say it enough.
Everyone should watch todays DK Sport Daily Shot. He talks about the investment we have made in the OL (2-1st rounders), yet not committing to them. Protecting a guy like Dan Moore instead of getting these chosen players into their position and playing them.
DK, obviously says it better than me, but I'm not the high paid reporter either. I just drive the LUXURY S10 and BT50.
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In this Steeler/Rooney/Tomlin team, accountability is frowned on, right from the very top, and it bleeds down from the head to the entire body. Don't believe me? Tell me, what draft picks are the Rooneys accountable for? Oh, that's right, only the Hall of Famers. I see. And after the fact? Got it.
My concern is this... regardless of whether I think Pat Meyers is a good OL coach or not, its indisputable that he teaches a very high technical style...
maybe, just maybe, you dont want rookies and second year guys playing all over while trying to perfect Muscle memory for one side or the other...
I just look at the run game and pass protection for The 17-19 chargers and 20-21 panthers didnt have great run game... some of those teams were bad rushing, others mediocre.. and in both cases, the run game improves a decent amount after he left.
Chargers:
2017- 24th
2018- 15th
2019- 29th
panthers:
2020- 21st
2021- 20th
He has been able to mostly have good pass blocking lines... the 2017 chargers led the league in fewest sacks and the 2021 Panthers were a hot mess giving up the fifth most sacks... his other three teams he was Ol coach on before coming here were 18th, 12th, and 10th in fewest sacks ...
So he averaged 14th in pass protection and 22nd in rushing over five years and two teams.. he also just had been fired for a season he was 20th in rushing and bottom 5 in sacks allowed...
Why is this your pick to run an oline for a Run centric team you are trying to build? Makes no sense...
maybe, just maybe, you dont want rookies and second year guys playing all over while trying to perfect Muscle memory for one side or the other...
I just look at the run game and pass protection for The 17-19 chargers and 20-21 panthers didnt have great run game... some of those teams were bad rushing, others mediocre.. and in both cases, the run game improves a decent amount after he left.
Chargers:
2017- 24th
2018- 15th
2019- 29th
panthers:
2020- 21st
2021- 20th
He has been able to mostly have good pass blocking lines... the 2017 chargers led the league in fewest sacks and the 2021 Panthers were a hot mess giving up the fifth most sacks... his other three teams he was Ol coach on before coming here were 18th, 12th, and 10th in fewest sacks ...
So he averaged 14th in pass protection and 22nd in rushing over five years and two teams.. he also just had been fired for a season he was 20th in rushing and bottom 5 in sacks allowed...
Why is this your pick to run an oline for a Run centric team you are trying to build? Makes no sense...
Why? Because a certain head coach "vibes" with him and his "yes man" ways. The megalomaniac needs yes man around him. That's what we are dealing with.
Yea, but who would be in charge of fancy, neeto quips and total lack of team discipline? Who would be in charge of "partial" ping pong privileges being taken away (only to rookies and young players). Don't you need that "cool" guy famous for "getting along with players" and fancy quips plus twirling the whistle around?
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Chris Carter had a good article in the PG about Jones today. It actually made me feel a little better about Jones as Carter highlighted the footwork and mental game were there, the physical game was a big issue with hand placement. This is where he brought up the injured elbow and he can actual hide that injury a bit playing on the left side.
Even very good tackles take time to develop and now that he's in year 2, it's time to settle Jones into his future position.
