Thanks for all the feedback on Lewan - I'd pretty much ignored him as a Steeler target because of the background problems from college. If other teams are seeing this as well then maybe the phones will start ringing at 15 after all if he is there.
Interesting two round mock draft
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Well, since the Steelers sent a full contingent to Michigan (including Munchak), I thought I would dig a little on Lewan. I have read the police report about the rape incident and if I were vetting Lewan, it would bother me. While I am not a judge or jury, from what I have read, I certainly think that the kicker took advantage of a woman who was drinking and said no. And, in the reports, Lewan was warned by police about threatening the victim. While he stated he never said that to the girl (made that statement at the combine), the police certainly thought he said enough to prompt them to tell him to stop or they would press charges, so I think he said something.
Now, this is when he was a college freshman. We are talking 17. Certainly old enough to know better, but we all do some dumb **** at that age. I think he got the whole Bros before Hos thing in his head and thought he was protecting his buddy. Bad decision any way you slice it. Dumb. Dumber than dumb.
But, do you condemn him because of something he did at 17? Dunno. I do think this last incident in a non-starter though. He faces 3 misdemeanor assault charges, states he was breaking it up. Funny that the guys who were struck state they were kicked by others and hit by others, but managed to only identify Taylor Lewan. And, it was OSU fans in Ann Arbor. Surveillance video shows little, not enough evidence in the video. Might see these charges dismissed or plead down. Did not appear to be any significant injury. Again, I think this is being blown up a little....and the earlier issue with the young woman certainly rubs me worse than this one. In fact, that is the only issue I have with him (off the field).
Still, will the Rooneys want to field questions about a guy involved in a potential rape case? Could be the deal breaker there......
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NFL's leading tackler voted AP's top defensive rookie
Updated: January 4, 2008, 6:21 PM ET
NEW YORK -- One NFL scout called linebacker Patrick Willis "a beast." And that was before Willis won The Associated Press 2007 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award.
Willis' dominant performance could have been overlooked because his San Francisco 49ers went 5-11 in a mediocre division. Instead, his league-leading 174 tackles and presence all over the field made him a runaway winner and the fifth straight linebacker to take the honor.
Willis earned 48 votes Friday from a nationwide panel of 50 media members who regularly cover the NFL. Only Carolina linebacker Jon Beason, with two, also received votes.
"It's confirmation of what you've been doing as an individual," Willis said. "From an individual perspective, it would be good for people that doubted, or didn't know if you could be a No. 1 draft pick, or if you could come into the league and do well because of your size or where you might have played ball at ... and show them that if you put your mind to it, you're capable of anything."
Willis certainly looked capable of just about anything as he did just about everything in 2007. The 11th overall draft pick from Mississippi was a dynamic presence from the first practice with the 49ers, and by season's end, opponents were scheming to avoid him.
It didn't work very often, witness his total tackles and four sacks and his ability to disrupt the opposition. He made 11 tackles in the season opener and had at least 10 in 10 games. His high was 20 against Tampa Bay, when Willis also had two sacks.
"The good Lord has blessed me with skills that are uncommon, but are just something that I do naturally," he said. "I also know I couldn't do it by myself, without help from my fellow linebackers or that D-line. Knowing that, I just stay humble. Whether it's in the movies or whether it's in real life, you see guys that got bigheaded, and they're in for a rude awakening."
Willis is the third 49ers player to win the award, joining tackle Dana Stubblefield (1993) and cornerback Bruce Taylor (1970).
He also continued the run of linebackers earning the honor. The previous four were: DeMeco Ryans of Houston, Shawne Merriman of San Diego, Jonathan Vilma of the New York Jets, and Terrell Suggs of Baltimore.
Updated: January 4, 2008, 6:21 PM ET
NEW YORK -- One NFL scout called linebacker Patrick Willis "a beast." And that was before Willis won The Associated Press 2007 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award.
Willis' dominant performance could have been overlooked because his San Francisco 49ers went 5-11 in a mediocre division. Instead, his league-leading 174 tackles and presence all over the field made him a runaway winner and the fifth straight linebacker to take the honor.
Willis earned 48 votes Friday from a nationwide panel of 50 media members who regularly cover the NFL. Only Carolina linebacker Jon Beason, with two, also received votes.
"It's confirmation of what you've been doing as an individual," Willis said. "From an individual perspective, it would be good for people that doubted, or didn't know if you could be a No. 1 draft pick, or if you could come into the league and do well because of your size or where you might have played ball at ... and show them that if you put your mind to it, you're capable of anything."
Willis certainly looked capable of just about anything as he did just about everything in 2007. The 11th overall draft pick from Mississippi was a dynamic presence from the first practice with the 49ers, and by season's end, opponents were scheming to avoid him.
It didn't work very often, witness his total tackles and four sacks and his ability to disrupt the opposition. He made 11 tackles in the season opener and had at least 10 in 10 games. His high was 20 against Tampa Bay, when Willis also had two sacks.
"The good Lord has blessed me with skills that are uncommon, but are just something that I do naturally," he said. "I also know I couldn't do it by myself, without help from my fellow linebackers or that D-line. Knowing that, I just stay humble. Whether it's in the movies or whether it's in real life, you see guys that got bigheaded, and they're in for a rude awakening."
Willis is the third 49ers player to win the award, joining tackle Dana Stubblefield (1993) and cornerback Bruce Taylor (1970).
He also continued the run of linebackers earning the honor. The previous four were: DeMeco Ryans of Houston, Shawne Merriman of San Diego, Jonathan Vilma of the New York Jets, and Terrell Suggs of Baltimore.
Some good points here. I think that it all depends on their attitude to a top talent that they may be able to draft at 15 (assuming that they are thinking that way). I don't think that they will bend their standards for him but I think that they will put that incident under the microscope and make damn sure that they are comfortable with it if they do decide to keep him on their board.
Personally I don't nail a guy for something he did when he was 17 - as long as they are certain that he is no longer that dumb as rocks 17 year old in attitude and outlook. Has he grown up? Was he a team captain? Would his buddies show up as character witnesses and are they the local biker gang or the local priest?
We'll see what happens in two weeks but LT is THE position on offense after QB and we haven't really had a legit one since Marvel.
Do we trade up for him...?
Thanks for making the point loud and clear Super Dave.
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IMO, intimidating a girl who accused your buddy of rape is not something you overlook. It's not kid stuff. It's not public intoxication. It's not shoplifting. It shows a serious lack of understanding and/or appreciation for what rape is. I'm not saying Lewan did or didn't do this, but like TMC said, the cops saw it fit to warn him for it.
If you were about to hire a guy, then found out he used to torture and kill neighborhood pets when he was a kid, would you think twice? After all, he was just a kid. Would you ignore all of the psychology behind that? And all of the links between **** like that and violent behavior as an adult? **** that noise. If I'm running a team and I believe the cops' warning was legit, he's probably off my board entirely.
If you were about to hire a guy, then found out he used to torture and kill neighborhood pets when he was a kid, would you think twice? After all, he was just a kid. Would you ignore all of the psychology behind that? And all of the links between **** like that and violent behavior as an adult? **** that noise. If I'm running a team and I believe the cops' warning was legit, he's probably off my board entirely.
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Well, I can say this, there is no doubt to me that the warning was legit. I read the report where the campus police instructed him to not have contact with the young woman.
http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/um-police-report.html
Here is the thing, the kicker, who as Lewan's roommate, contends it was completely consensual. I am sure that Lewan heard his side and ONLY his side. I have little doubt that at 17, he put enough thought into it to hear both sides of the story and his roommate probably gave him some story about how she was trying to ruin him, because he made the comment in his police interview about how this could affect his career at UofM. In fact, the alleged victim stated he made two statements to her (as in the transcript). The first was a comment to the effect that she had not been "smooshed like that" before.....which kind of gives the feel that it was a hit and run for the guy. His second comment was the rape deal, which sounds like he is escalating to get her to back off his friend.
Again, not defending the guy, it is beyond ****** what he did to back his buddy, but I can see how a 17-year old can be that immature. Maybe it is just me and maybe I was immature at that age, but I can easily state that I have done much worse with my friends than threaten someone to get them to keep quiet. And, I do not think I am some psychopath.
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I get that, but man.. a scared girl who may have just been raped? Again, NOT claiming that rape took place OR that a real threat took place. But I don't touch it with a ten-foot pole. I move on to the next guy. No one can convince me that Andrew Luck, let alone Taylor "Need Ya to Chip This Guy for Me" Lewan, is worth walking that tightrope.
Rape doesn't just mean you like to **** too much and get carried away. It means you're violent and OK with being a sheer ******* criminal and you liken women to the spider at the bottom of your shoe. Anyone who performs, condones, supports, or makes excuses for the act is off my draft board and out of my life. I realize the slippery slope involved, but there are too many football players out there for me to (a) assume you're worth the trouble and (b) be OK with you threatening a potential rape victim.
I don't think that Ben or Kobe Bryant were guilty of rape. But if they or any of their buddies threatened their accuser, I'd say **** them, too.
Campus Police. Threatening a victim of a crime is a crime so is threatening a witness. I am a little bit suspect of the whole thing. I do not have any information on the incident or series of incidents but the way it has been handled makes me think this maybe a lot less substance than it is touted as having. It would be one thing if it was not consensual prior to or during, but many times the deed becomes non consensual the next day and little miss round heels wants compensated or now has issues with it or is shocked that she was only miss right now not miss right.
It is a horse of a different color if she was taken by force or drugged but baring those types of things the decision she was raped well after the fact does not hold water for me. Again not saying that is the case here but there seems to be a lot of things like this showing up on colleges today.
It is a horse of a different color if she was taken by force or drugged but baring those types of things the decision she was raped well after the fact does not hold water for me. Again not saying that is the case here but there seems to be a lot of things like this showing up on colleges today.
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I always felt that way, too. Still do, to an extent. Then I saw the chain of command just say, "**** it!" on Jameis Winston and X number of high school rape accusations involving football players go the same way. I'm starting to believe that good ol' boys get the benefit of the doubt as long as they play football.
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I just don't want an offensive linemen in the first. I'll live with it if that's the pick but it'snot my want at all.
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I hear what your saying but if it is the best option then I am good with it. Let's say Dennard, Gilbert, Evans and Ebron are gone when we pick and we can't trade down then I am good with Lewan. I think this draft is deep at CB, WR and TE that we can get a guy later in the draft and going Lewan wouldn't bother me, for the record if this happens I am all for trading down and looking at Fuller, Beckham, Mosley, Benjamin or Shazier.
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Well, I read his and her police reports and statements. Not trying to diminish what happened, but this is not a pushed her down in the park and raped her type deal. They knew each other. The day prior, at a party, he kisses her and she admitted to her ex-boyfriend that she initially kissed him back before breaking it off.
They run into each other at a frat party the next night. Drinking involved, she admits to 4 beers and some shots. So, she was probably a little more than tipsy, so was he. So, while still rape, falls more into the date rape category. Apparently, they went to the bathroom and he followed her into the stall (a little too eerie already). She is wearing compression leggins/shorts, he pulls them down, she say no and pulls them up (her story). He states it is consensual. They walk across the hall and into the bedroom, where he takes her pants down and has sex with her. She contends she stated no. Oral sex involved as well. Again, she states she did not consent. As soon as he is done, she hurries out. She runs into a friend outside her dorm and is distraught. She collapses, crying, hysterical according to the SOBER friend. Friends statement says she has never seen someone so distraught and was actually worried about her physical health she was so hysterical.
So, I have little doubt she was stating no. Not from the interviews from the two involved, but from those SOBER people that witnessed the reaction. I think she told him no and he pressed on, did the deed thinking nothing would happen, then goes with the consensual story. The thing is, I think he sits with Lewan in his room, whining and complaining about how she was all into it, how she is some kind of ***** wanting to ruin his life, how since he is not dating her and not wanting a relationship, she is out to get him. I think he believes in his world he did nothing wrong and this is going to flat out ruin him. I think Lewan buys his story. They have roomed together and became friends. He is young and just buys it. So, he tries to help his friend by shooting off his mouth.
Again, dumb? Absolutely. Flat out stupid. But, I have done some pretty dumb **** for my friends at that age.......
They run into each other at a frat party the next night. Drinking involved, she admits to 4 beers and some shots. So, she was probably a little more than tipsy, so was he. So, while still rape, falls more into the date rape category. Apparently, they went to the bathroom and he followed her into the stall (a little too eerie already). She is wearing compression leggins/shorts, he pulls them down, she say no and pulls them up (her story). He states it is consensual. They walk across the hall and into the bedroom, where he takes her pants down and has sex with her. She contends she stated no. Oral sex involved as well. Again, she states she did not consent. As soon as he is done, she hurries out. She runs into a friend outside her dorm and is distraught. She collapses, crying, hysterical according to the SOBER friend. Friends statement says she has never seen someone so distraught and was actually worried about her physical health she was so hysterical.
So, I have little doubt she was stating no. Not from the interviews from the two involved, but from those SOBER people that witnessed the reaction. I think she told him no and he pressed on, did the deed thinking nothing would happen, then goes with the consensual story. The thing is, I think he sits with Lewan in his room, whining and complaining about how she was all into it, how she is some kind of ***** wanting to ruin his life, how since he is not dating her and not wanting a relationship, she is out to get him. I think he believes in his world he did nothing wrong and this is going to flat out ruin him. I think Lewan buys his story. They have roomed together and became friends. He is young and just buys it. So, he tries to help his friend by shooting off his mouth.
Again, dumb? Absolutely. Flat out stupid. But, I have done some pretty dumb **** for my friends at that age.......
I dont think anyone here is suggesting that Lewan's actions were correct, nor validating them in any way. Pointing out that he was a 17 year old kid is just a fact. His threatening to rape the girl could be true, or may not be. We know she said that he threatened to. We do NOT know that he did say that.
Ideally, someone else takes this sideshow before we pick. He just screams "Raiders" to me.
With all that information, I'd rather have a tad-less LT in Kou. At least we can assume he's got a little more integrity.
Ideally, someone else takes this sideshow before we pick. He just screams "Raiders" to me.
With all that information, I'd rather have a tad-less LT in Kou. At least we can assume he's got a little more integrity.
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Kou has a higher ceiling than Lewan IMO
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I agree. May be better value. Moses should be considered too. The thing with Kou, Miami is said to be walking around with a big boner for him. So, not like we could slide down and nab him in the 20s, which I would prefer......and, not sure I have him higher than a guy like Fuller/Verrett and I think I can move down into the 20s and get one of them.
So, it all depends on how bad you want the player and how big of a gambler you think you are.....
IMO, we can get by with Beachum another season. As said previously, he got the job done last year. He's not an ideal LT, but he does the job.
I'd bluff my *** into trading down. In fact, I'd almost be ok with trading down into the 2nd and picking up a few extra picks. Outside a handful of guys, the talent level seems fairly level.
I'd bluff my *** into trading down. In fact, I'd almost be ok with trading down into the 2nd and picking up a few extra picks. Outside a handful of guys, the talent level seems fairly level.
http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/6035/kiper-on-cb-dennard-hes-a-steeler
Give me Dennard damn it
Give me Dennard damn it
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If we were to deal into the late 1st/early 2nd, we could be looking at a haul like:
Ra'Shede Hageman / Kyle Fuller / Jace Amaro
Marcus Smith
Antonio Richardson
Donte Moncrief
Shane Skov
You can't convince me that's not a better haul than staying at #15 and getting the same quality of guys, minus two.
Ra'Shede Hageman / Kyle Fuller / Jace Amaro
Marcus Smith
Antonio Richardson
Donte Moncrief
Shane Skov
You can't convince me that's not a better haul than staying at #15 and getting the same quality of guys, minus two.
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I am not a big fan of Richardson and think he is a RT, so he does not interest me. IIRC, Skov did not crack 5 flat in his forty. I'll pass on him completely.
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I've wanted to trade down since they beat the clowns and cemented an 8-8 season. The only way I wouldn't is if a true stud is there. Someone high on their board that slides. Other than that I'd trade down in a heartbeat.
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It's a ****** year to be looking for an ILB in the draft.
Get well soon Sean Spence.
Get well soon Sean Spence.
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I agree but it is not as bad as we think there are some guys I and all come with some questions... speed, coverage and health:
Borland, Zumwalt, Smallwood, Skov, Jackson, Morris and Lattimore. I did not like what I saw with Bullough, he is slow and can't shed a block.
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