Is It the Government's Responsibility or the Citizens?

[21STEELERS21]

http://www.businessinsider.com/it-will-take-7-years-to-fix-job-market-2016-7

We are staring at record numbers of jobs available with unemployment already low. The big problem
which the above article addresses is that many of the unemployed aren't qualified for the available jobs.
Was it the governments responsibility to have citizens trained for these positions or was it the citizens
responsibility to prepare and get the right education?

The dirty little secret is we need a lot more immigrants in the future to keep up with the Chinese economy.

 

[madinsomniac]

Unemployment isnt a gauge of people without jobs.... Its people claiming unemployment benefits... When they run out they drop off the stats, which is why you hear about somanyjobless and the unemployment numbers are low

 

[diver]

Not everybody is suited for college. That is just a fact. In the past we had manufacturing jobs that people who didn't want to go to college could get. Around where I live there was Dana Parish Division. Huge employer, made Chevy truck bodies. Gone. There are still some things. Deka. CarTech. A lot of kids who don't have the college degree do go to those places. But losing Dana around here was huge. There are a number of other companies that were big employers that are just memories now. Anyway, I blame the government for not valuing manufacturing.

 

[hamster]

The dirty little secret is we need a lot more immigrants in the future to keep up with the Chinese economy.

Allowing third world muslim neanderthals into the country is NOT the solution.

 

[ark steel]

How could it be anything other than:

or was it the citizens responsibility to prepare and get the right education?

 

[Roy92040]

Since a lot of our traditional jobs are going overseas it would be nice if the Government got behind some job training programs. I was lucky, I went to work in a navy shipyard as an apprentice. I spent 35 years working for the Government. I don't think the Government has programs like that anymore.

 

[DBS1970]

Since a lot of our traditional jobs are going overseas it would be nice if the Government got behind some job training programs. I was lucky, I went to work in a navy shipyard as an apprentice. I spent 35 years working for the Government. I don't think the Government has programs like that anymore.

No there still are programs like that. The problem is most of the young people don't want jobs where they get their hands dirty. They want jobs that allow them to sit an an air conditioned office and not break a sweat. That's the whole point f Mike Rowe's(The guy from Dirty Jobs) foundation. Encouraging people to get vocational training for skilled trades and manufacturing jobs that still exist.

 

[MTC]

No there still are programs like that. The problem is most of the young people don't want jobs where they get their hands dirty. They want jobs that allow them to sit an an air conditioned office and not break a sweat. That's the whole point f Mike Rowe's(The guy from Dirty Jobs) foundation. Encouraging people to get vocational training for skilled trades and manufacturing jobs that still exist.

I remember hearing the mayor of ABQ on the radio last week saying the city was planning to open up programs to get unemployed people necessary skills to get a job. So yeah, I believe programs like that still exist. I'm one of those employees that go out and get my hands dirty(literally) but it's fun, fast paced, and a workout. I do have some college experience, but in todays market, I think experience should be valued over creditentials

 

[ark steel]

I have no interest in sweating at work.

 

[Sarge]

Since a lot of our traditional jobs are going overseas it would be nice if the Government got behind some job training programs. I was lucky, I went to work in a navy shipyard as an apprentice. I spent 35 years working for the Government. I don't think the Government has programs like that anymore.

Yes they do. It is called the military. I received job training that ultimately landed me the career I have now. Sure, I got a couple of vacations in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the end result was worth it.

If the government would lower the corporate tax rate a bit, some of those jobs just might come back.

 

[GRBman]

The point is that we have too many people getting secondary educations that aren't work a bucket of spit, and aren't willing to go learn a TRADE. Yes, there are a ton of positions open on job boards, but those aren't all going to be hired. Hell, PNC Bank posts a dozen or more positions a day...they aren't hiring at that rate...they are fishing for elite candidates.

As for the responsibility...the Government already provides 13 YEARS of education starting at age 5...and as Sarge said, if you want more "on the job" training the Military will actually pay you to learn those skills. It is the responsibility of the person to go out and find the education and training for a job. If you want a well-paying job, walk onto a construction job and offer yourself as a laborer or an apprentice and they will damn-near hire you on the spot. Work is brutal as hell, but in most cases they'll pay you above minimum wage...or you'll be in a union where your wages are set and your employment protected.

Then there's this, the United States of America offers more opportunity for entrepreneurs than any nation on this planet...past or present. When my grandfather returned from World War 2, he had an 8th grade education and lived in one of the poorest sections of the country (SE Alabama/NW Florida). He decided that he could probably be a plumber so he signed-on as an apprentice and quickly figured out how to price jobs and plan construction. He borrowed $30 from his dentist to pay for his plumber's license, studied in the library and passed his test. He had a truck that he used for jobs and just went around fixing **** until my uncle got home from school (7th grade)...and the two would work the afternoons. That was 1959. By 1980 my grandfather's plumbing company was valued at almost a million dollars and had just landed the contract for a large water park in Panama City Beach. By the end of the 80's, the company was worth several million and doing almost 100% of all work at the two military bases in town. He retired comfortably, not wealthy, and left a legacy for the family. (too bad the boys ran the business into the ground)...

Even still, if you want to succeed in America you can...just get off your *** and go do it.

 

[Supersteeler]

The point is that we have too many people getting secondary educations that aren't work a bucket of spit, and aren't willing to go learn a TRADE. Yes, there are a ton of positions open on job boards, but those aren't all going to be hired. Hell, PNC Bank posts a dozen or more positions a day...they aren't hiring at that rate...they are fishing for elite candidates.

As for the responsibility...the Government already provides 13 YEARS of education starting at age 5...and as Sarge said, if you want more "on the job" training the Military will actually pay you to learn those skills. It is the responsibility of the person to go out and find the education and training for a job. If you want a well-paying job, walk onto a construction job and offer yourself as a laborer or an apprentice and they will damn-near hire you on the spot. Work is brutal as hell, but in most cases they'll pay you above minimum wage...or you'll be in a union where your wages are set and your employment protected.

Then there's this, the United States of America offers more opportunity for entrepreneurs than any nation on this planet...past or present. When my grandfather returned from World War 2, he had an 8th grade education and lived in one of the poorest sections of the country (SE Alabama/NW Florida). He decided that he could probably be a plumber so he signed-on as an apprentice and quickly figured out how to price jobs and plan construction. He borrowed $30 from his dentist to pay for his plumber's license, studied in the library and passed his test. He had a truck that he used for jobs and just went around fixing **** until my uncle got home from school (7th grade)...and the two would work the afternoons. That was 1959. By 1980 my grandfather's plumbing company was valued at almost a million dollars and had just landed the contract for a large water park in Panama City Beach. By the end of the 80's, the company was worth several million and doing almost 100% of all work at the two military bases in town. He retired comfortably, not wealthy, and left a legacy for the family. (too bad the boys ran the business into the ground)...

Even still, if you want to succeed in America you can...just get off your *** and go do it.

Take it from someone who works in a school. The State Education Departments HIGHLY discourage schools from "allowing" many kids to go into learning a trade as opposed to going on the college track. In fact there are penalties in place at the State level for schools that do not send enough students to colleges. Actually for the past 15 or so years, they have been attempting to shut down all Vocational programs and forcing the Vocational kids to take college preparatory classes instead. So far schools and parents have had the good sense to tell them to **** off but it hasn't made them give up trying. EVERYONE should go to to college in the eyes of the bureaucrats.

Whenever we would have meetings with State Officials talking about this very thing I used to take great pleasure in pissing them off and it was so easy. I'd sit and listen to them ramble about how the State wants everyone to be exposed to College Prep classes and attend college to give them an opportunity to achieve their dreams. After about 20 minutes of letting them blather on, I'd raise my hand and ask something like, "Uhhhh who is going to fix my car in 10 years when it breaks down....or my refrigerator?" Worked every time.

 

[Coach]

Unemployment isnt a gauge of people without jobs.... Its people claiming unemployment benefits... When they run out they drop off the stats, which is why you hear about somanyjobless and the unemployment numbers are low

Right! The Labor rate, the percentage of people working is a better indicator. And its hit a low point under Obama.

It was 66.2% of the people working in January 2008 when he took office. Now it's 62.7. This is a huge 3.5% drop. 3.5% of the people working is approximately 7 million more people out of work.





http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

 

[SteelerFan448]

Take it from someone who works in a school. The State Education Departments HIGHLY discourage schools from "allowing" many kids to go into learning a trade as opposed to going on the college track. In fact there are penalties in place at the State level for schools that do not send enough students to colleges. Actually for the past 15 or so years, they have been attempting to shut down all Vocational programs and forcing the Vocational kids to take college preparatory classes instead. So far schools and parents have had the good sense to tell them to **** off but it hasn't made them give up trying. EVERYONE should go to to college in the eyes of the bureaucrats.

Whenever we would have meetings with State Officials talking about this very thing I used to take great pleasure in pissing them off and it was so easy. I'd sit and listen to them ramble about how the State wants everyone to be exposed to College Prep classes and attend college to give them an opportunity to achieve their dreams. After about 20 minutes of letting them blather on, I'd raise my hand and ask something like, "Uhhhh who is going to fix my car in 10 years when it breaks down....or my refrigerator?" Worked every time.

We have an opposite trend in our district by allowing more students to explore vocational training in high school and for their post-secondary education. I don't want to see all of our students go in this direction, but a nice balance will be a benefit.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/it-will-take-7-years-to-fix-job-market-2016-7

We are staring at record numbers of jobs available with unemployment already low. The big problem
which the above article addresses is that many of the unemployed aren't qualified for the available jobs.
Was it the governments responsibility to have citizens trained for these positions or was it the citizens
responsibility to prepare and get the right education?

The dirty little secret is we need a lot more immigrants in the future to keep up with the Chinese economy.

I think in many cases the job market changes too fast for the education system to keep up. That said, there is also too much of a profit squeeze on almost all companies due to taxes and regulations such that they can''t afford to do on the job training and have someone work their way up like the steel mills used to do. (I used to work in a steel mill, I know this.)
For example, in the fracking boom in western PA and eastern OH they had to import all sorts of people from Texas and Oklahoma who knew how to drill because no one here knew how to do that. So the hotels were doing a booming business but it employed relatively few natives.

 

[ark steel]

...they are fishing for elite candidates.

Are you saying my Masters in Women's Studies isn't what they are looking for?

 

[ark steel]

The point is that we have too many people getting secondary educations that aren't work a bucket of spit, and aren't willing to go learn a TRADE. Yes, there are a ton of positions open on job boards, but those aren't all going to be hired. Hell, PNC Bank posts a dozen or more positions a day...they aren't hiring at that rate...they are fishing for elite candidates.

As for the responsibility...the Government already provides 13 YEARS of education starting at age 5...and as Sarge said, if you want more "on the job" training the Military will actually pay you to learn those skills. It is the responsibility of the person to go out and find the education and training for a job. If you want a well-paying job, walk onto a construction job and offer yourself as a laborer or an apprentice and they will damn-near hire you on the spot. Work is brutal as hell, but in most cases they'll pay you above minimum wage...or you'll be in a union where your wages are set and your employment protected.

Then there's this, the United States of America offers more opportunity for entrepreneurs than any nation on this planet...past or present. When my grandfather returned from World War 2, he had an 8th grade education and lived in one of the poorest sections of the country (SE Alabama/NW Florida). He decided that he could probably be a plumber so he signed-on as an apprentice and quickly figured out how to price jobs and plan construction. USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE He borrowed $30 from his dentist to pay for his plumber's license, USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE studied in the library and USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE passed his test. USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE He had a truck that he used for jobs and just went around fixing **** until my uncle got home from school (7th grade)...and the two would work the afternoons. That was 1959. By 1980 USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE my grandfather's plumbing company was valued at almost a million dollars and USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE had just landed the contract for a large water park in Panama City Beach. By the end of the 80's, USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE the company was worth several million and doing almost 100% of all work at the two military bases in town. USING HIS WHITE PRIVILEGE He retired comfortably, not wealthy, and left a WHITE PRIVILEGE legacy for the family. (too bad the boys ran the business into the ground)...

Even still, if you want to succeed in America you can...USING WHITE PRIVILEGE just get off your *** and go do it.

I fixed this up for you.

 

[DBS1970]

Are you saying my Masters in Women's Studies isn't what they are looking for?

Yep.

While people with STEM degrees and technical educations are in demand. Wonder why that is?

 

[ark steel]

Yep.

While people with STEM degrees and technical educations are in demand. Wonder why that is?

A misogynistic patriarchal society which only keeps women and cum-catchers and punching bags?

 

[Superman]

I got your stem right here

 

[MTC]

We have an opposite trend in our district by allowing more students to explore vocational training in high school and for their post-secondary education. I don't want to see all of our students go in this direction, but a nice balance will be a benefit.

Eh, sometimes college isn't always the answer. I value education but the 13 years kids are put through should prepare them for the real world. Now college is viewed as the "end be all" along those lines. Not everyone can afford and students coming out of college don't have the experience

 

[Supersteeler]

Eh, sometimes college isn't always the answer. I value education but the 13 years kids are put through should prepare them for the real world. Now college is viewed as the "end be all" along those lines. Not everyone can afford and students coming out of college don't have the experience

Not only that but in every school I've ever been in there is always a good 30% of the kids who want absolutely nothing to do with college whatsoever. They plan to work in Dad's Auto Body Shop after high school, go in to coal mine, or land an apprenticeship as an Electrician. Last year, I had a first in my 12 years of talking to students about their careers. A kid told me that his Dad was a river barge Captain and he was going to go to work as a deck hand on the barge and work his way up to taking over as Captain when his Dad retired. That was a pretty damn interesting answer to the standard "What do you wanna do after High School" question. Hell I had him in my room for like 15 minutes afterwards just asking him questions about being on a river barge, the hierarchy of the crew and how far they travel because I knew nothing about it. I had thought by this point in my career that I had heard every career possible from kids but that was a new one.

 

[RollRed]

No there still are programs like that. The problem is most of the young people don't want jobs where they get their hands dirty. They want jobs that allow them to sit an an air conditioned office and not break a sweat. That's the whole point f Mike Rowe's(The guy from Dirty Jobs) foundation. Encouraging people to get vocational training for skilled trades and manufacturing jobs that still exist.

I agree that kids nowadays don't want to work a job that requires breaking a sweat and getting their hands dirty.... Hell a lot of them don't want to work at all. However a big reason young folks don't want to work construction or in manufacturing is because most of the time those jobs don't pay dick. When the trade unions were strong a kid could expect to make a nice living as a carpenter, an electrician, a painter, or, as in my case, a plasterer. You started out as an apprentice, which usually paid around half of whatever scale was at the time, but still had health insurance and a decent pension. Once you became a journeyman though, it was not unreasonable to expect to earn enough to live a comfortable middle class life and, as I said, retire with a pension. Now if you take a job in one of the trades, it's most likely non-union and pays $10-$12 an hour.... no benefits and of course no pension. The simple fact is that you can't survive on your own grossing $80 bucks a day and no health insurance. Who the **** wants to go into a profession where you work your *** off and make $20-$25K a year? Even if your lucky enough to work for $20 an hour, that still only works out to about $40K a year.... and that's assuming you get a ringer every week ( 40 hours ) and you work all 52 weeks of the year. Most guys in construction get laid off from time to time. Unemployment will keep your head above water as long as the lay off isn't more than a couple weeks. The ironic thing with republicans is that they're against the things that would make construction jobs more viable.... mainly strong unions that ensure a decent wage for guys working in the trades and health insurance so that if you or someone in your family gets sick your not financially ruined. They don't even want people to have unemployment insurance so that when the inevitable lay offs happen guys don't end up in the poor house. I guarantee you a guy like Trump gave most of the work on his projects to non-union contractors that pay **** wages to their carpenters,roofers, drywall finishers, etc. He has the gall to blather on and on about how the middle class has taken it on the chin over the years, blaming democrats for all of it when the truth is that it's him and others like him that have been the problem all along. Don't get me wrong, the dems are not blameless in all this, not by any stretch. But at least they support the idea of unions ( private sector), the idea of trying to do something for all of those that don't have employer provided health insurance and don't make near enough to afford it on their own... the idea of raising the minimum wage because it's ridiculous to expect a person to work an 8 hour day and gross $56 bucks when you take into consideration what **** costs in this day and age.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Eh, sometimes college isn't always the answer. I value education but the 13 years kids are put through should prepare them for the real world. Now college is viewed as the "end be all" along those lines. Not everyone can afford and students coming out of college don't have the experience

Which is why there is an effort to expose more students to vocational training during high school and to look at options for 1-2 year training programs after they graduate.

 

[madinsomniac]

Union jobs can be far shittier than non union...in the 90's when i worked at one, Local supermarkets often worked under mminum wages had to pay union dues and got nickle raises a year... We had no benefits either.. When i worked in paramutual betting, it was half unionized, and the non union side had better benefits, raises, and wages than the union positions... Its not the story you often hear, but there are plenty of bad unions out there who dont work for the people...