Is It the Government's Responsibility or the Citizens?

[Steeltime]

I agree that kids nowadays don't want to work a job that requires breaking a sweat and getting their hands dirty.... Hell a lot of them don't want to work at all. However a big reason young folks don't want to work construction or in manufacturing is because most of the time those jobs don't pay dick.

You want to know why that is?

It is an absolute, inarguable, proven point that illegals dominate construction and manufacturing jobs and drove the wages into the toilet.

 

[Stoney]

Allowing third world muslim neanderthals into the country is NOT the solution.

Exactly. The Syrian rebels thats our politicians are backing just posted a video of themselves beheading a 12 year old boy, are these the ******* savages we're letting into our country? I mean, these are the supposed moderates, right?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Exactly. The Syrian rebels thats our politicians are backing just posted a video of themselves beheading a 12 year old boy, are these the ******* savages we're letting into our country? I mean, these are the supposed moderates, right?

"How'd you like to be running a presidential campaign dependent on Muslims not acting up again between now and Nov. 8? It's getting awfully hard for the media to keep being indignant about Trump's proposed Muslim ban, as long as Muslims keep blowing things up and shooting people." -- Ann Coulter

 

[RollRed]

You want to know why that is?

It is an absolute, inarguable, proven point that illegals dominate construction and manufacturing jobs and drove the wages into the toilet.

They wouldn't come here if the American contractors didn't hire them. They are just trying to escape a ****** life for something a little better.... It's the ******* that hire them that deserve the lions share of the blame.

 

[Stoney]

They wouldn't come here if the American contractors didn't hire them. They are just trying to escape a ****** life for something a little better.... It's the ******* that hire them that deserve the lions share of the blame.

Whatever.

Thats like blaming the drug addict instead of the drug dealer, or the john instead of the prostitute. There is a lot of illegal **** I could do that'd make my life better, but I don't do it.... because its illegal.

 

[DBS1970]

They wouldn't come here if the American contractors didn't hire them. They are just trying to escape a ****** life for something a little better.... It's the ******* that hire them that deserve the lions share of the blame.

That's true.

But the unions strong arming employers into paying wages that the market won't support or what began the vicious cycle.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Liberals do not recognize personal accountability amongst their constituents. It is always someone else's fault.

You could literally show a picture of them breaking the law and liberals would blame someone else..wait..

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Whatever.

Thats like blaming the drug addict instead of the drug dealer, or the john instead of the prostitute. There is a lot of illegal **** I could do that'd make my life better, but I don't do it.... because its illegal.

Ha, Ha! I know exactly what you mean, but it would only last for a short time before you were on the local news.

 

[RollRed]

Liberals do not recognize personal accountability amongst their constituents. It is always someone else's fault.

You could literally show a picture of them breaking the law and liberals would blame someone else..wait..

So if I can get a picture of some guy paying a bunch of Guatamalens 8 bucks an hour cash under the table, that would make it real for you. Who benefits more in this scenario.... the undocumented worker making 60 bucks a day or the contractor that just cut his labor costs by 100 percent when you factor in everything. Of course the consensus here is that the dirt poor guy hopping a fence, hoping he can find that $60 a day job is the one who deserves the most blame. Again, they wouldn't be coming here if they didn't already know there was going to be somebody willing to hire them.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

They wouldn't come here if the American contractors didn't hire them. They are just trying to escape a ****** life for something a little better.... It's the ******* that hire them that deserve the lions share of the blame.

Bullshit. There is no single point of blame to this problem, but there is a major culprit and it is illegal immigration. Followed by the employers, but that's economics: "Hey, I can hire this guy for $7/hour to do the same job that I used to pay Bill to do for $12/hour?" No brainer. Its' the Unions. It's the economy. On and on.

For you to point this back to the companies is Liberal and foolish. Companies are going to follow dollars. That's how capitalism works and should work. Our economy and economics were set up and built to support higher wages to American workers. As illegal immigration skyrocketed, and illegals became a large, lower cost, skilled workforce, companies in a capitalist market pursued those cost savings to improve their bottom line and to beat their competitors.

Real life analogy. I work in the high-tech industry (software/hardware). My first job was with a large telecommunications company in their Federal division selling million dollar contracts and the like to the Navy back in 1991-1993. At the time, we worked a standard work-day, usually out by 6 or 6:30, meeting our objectives. I was on the company softball team, two games/week at 7PM. At least a night a week we were at happy hour by 7. It was a fairly standard 9 to 6 gig.

In the late 90s, the dot.com revolution happened. Millionaires were being made in a year or two of work at start-up technology companies. And the college kids entering the market saw this. And said, "Hey, if I can work 12-14 hour days for 5-10 years at a couple start-ups, I can retire by 30 or 35 years old. I'll do it." And they did. All of a sudden the workforce dynamics changed. These young kids starting staying very late. And rising in the corporate ranks quickly. And changing the expectations. Meetings at 6:30PM became expected. Working through lunch expected. Evening technology events, expected. Offices taffed sometimes until 8 or 9PM at night.

Now, in my industry, it is the norm. I get phone calls regularly at 8PM or later. I'm asked to work in all day training sessions on Saturdays and sometimes Sundays at conventions. We'll have 7:30 breakfast meetings, work all day, down to mandatory dinners at night that sometimes end at 10:30. 7:30-10:30PM work days. No one bats an eye.

Those college kids coming into the workforce then, combined with a fast paced, get rich quick era of the dot.coms led to dynamics that changed the expectations of work effort and hours in this industry that is now the standard.

Really, it's not a different story than the impact all of the illegal immigrants have had on our labor force.

I'll make one more case. Say for 20 years you've been paying your local electric company $200/month for your electric service. A proud, American Electric Company. But, all of a sudden, you were given the option to buy your power from Mexican Electric Utilities that had been given the right to sell their electric power to you in Southern California. Dozens of them were flooding your mailbox with offers to switch, guarantees of same up time and quality service, for $125/month. At some point in time, you'd switch. And you'd be a liar to tell me otherwise. The problem there isn't you choosing to funnel your dollars to the Mexican Electric company, just like it's not the American companies' fault for hiring lower cost skilled labor. It's sensible. The problem is those Mexican companies being allowed to undercut the American utilities.

No different than illegal immigration.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

They wouldn't come here if the American contractors didn't hire them. They are just trying to escape a ****** life for something a little better.... It's the ******* that hire them that deserve the lions share of the blame.

But then how big of an enforcement arm of the government do you want to check up on every employer every week? I've owned a small business for 21 years in a line of work where a lot of people work under the table and we dutifully fill out an I-9 form for everyone we hire. Granted I am not in a hotbed of illegal immigration (or job growth), but I have never had an immigration agent or anyone else ever stop in and ask to see our records. In two weeks the company will be sold and it won't be my problem anyway.

 

[MTC]

Not only that but in every school I've ever been in there is always a good 30% of the kids who want absolutely nothing to do with college whatsoever. They plan to work in Dad's Auto Body Shop after high school, go in to coal mine, or land an apprenticeship as an Electrician. Last year, I had a first in my 12 years of talking to students about their careers. A kid told me that his Dad was a river barge Captain and he was going to go to work as a deck hand on the barge and work his way up to taking over as Captain when his Dad retired. That was a pretty damn interesting answer to the standard "What do you wanna do after High School" question. Hell I had him in my room for like 15 minutes afterwards just asking him questions about being on a river barge, the hierarchy of the crew and how far they travel because I knew nothing about it. I had thought by this point in my career that I had heard every career possible from kids but that was a new one.

Some kids know what they want and good for them. If I could go back I wouldn't have done college. UGA was fun, but I ended up back home in NM. Result--I co-own two franchise rental car agencies, meet people from all over the world, work under the sun, developed social skills that I never learned nor really established in college. The fast pace etc. But like that kid you talked too, I got into the business cause my uncle owned one franchise location. When I came back into town I started off just a service agent, to which I am today. But now a lot more communication with distribution, training new employees. I've watched this company grow

So kudos to that kid, cause he probably knew the in's/out's and what it took to advance in that career

 

[RollRed]

It's a tough situation for people like myself. Unions used to enable those with a skilled trade like carpenter, plasterer such as myself, electrician, etc. to earn a modest middle class living. Now we're told we've priced ourselves out of the market. Most trade union wage scales are in the $25-$28 per hour range which equates to around $50K a year which is slightly lower than the median income in the U.S. A carpenter, plasterer, painter, etc. with years of experience is considered greedy because he thinks he deserves a lower middle class living for the work that he does. Our skills have been devalued to the point that just making enough to afford the necessities is a challenge. Many of us would be willing to pull up stakes and learn new skills that are of more value today. The problem is that now that many like myself do not have the resources to go back to school to aquire these new skills. Another problem is our age. When we were young we worked our *** off gathering the skills and experience we thought would enable us to have a decent quality of life, perfectly happy knowing we'd never be rich but certainly able to live a quiet middle class life. Now you find yourself closer to 50 than 40 and in a position where you are basically starting over. Perhaps it isn't the job of the government to retrain people, but the simple truth is that if they don't, there's a lot of folks that will never get that training they need because every dime is needed just to survive.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's a tough situation for people like myself. Unions used to enable those with a skilled trade like carpenter, plasterer such as myself, electrician, etc. to earn a modest middle class living. Now we're told we've priced ourselves out of the market. Most trade union wage scales are in the $25-$28 per hour range which equates to around $50K a year which is slightly lower than the median income in the U.S. A carpenter, plasterer, painter, etc. with years of experience is considered greedy because he thinks he deserves a lower middle class living for the work that he does. Our skills have been devalued to the point that just making enough to afford the necessities is a challenge. Many of us would be willing to pull up stakes and learn new skills that are of more value today. The problem is that now that many like myself do not have the resources to go back to school to aquire these new skills. Another problem is our age. When we were young we worked our *** off gathering the skills and experience we thought would enable us to have a decent quality of life, perfectly happy knowing we'd never be rich but certainly able to live a quiet middle class life. Now you find yourself closer to 50 than 40 and in a position where you are basically starting over. Perhaps it isn't the job of the government to retrain people, but the simple truth is that if they don't, there's a lot of folks that will never get that training they need because every dime is needed just to survive.

That's why I went back to school at the age of 52 on my own dime to become a funeral director. When I was laid up at home for five months in 2012 with not much to do except post on Steeler Nation, I had a lot of time to think and I went looking for new careers. I figured in the Obamunism economy it was better to do something where you need to be licensed or certified, something not everyone can do (or wants to ), and something where I don't have to compete with people who work under the table like I do now, and I came up with funeral director. I decided I don't like what I do now, it will never pay enough, and have a marketable skill so I can move to Florida like I should have done in 1983 when I had the chance.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

That's why I went back to school at the age of 52 on my own dime to become a funeral director. When I was laid up at home for five months in 2012 with not much to do except post on Steeler Nation, I had a lot of time to think and I went looking for new careers. I figured in the Obamunism economy it was better to do something where you need to be licensed or certified, something not everyone can do (or wants to ), and something where I don't have to compete with people who work under the table like I do now, and I came up with funeral director. I decided I don't like what I do now, it will never pay enough, and have a marketable skill so I can move to Florida like I should have done in 1983 when I had the chance.

If you don't have a marketable skill, you're basically screwed. Back in the dark ages when I was trying to sort out my life, I started in college majoring in industrial management, couldn't stand it and got out. Within 5 years of graduation there wasn't any industry in this country to manage anyway.
Changed to chemistry, but was still lost as what to do with it. Had a high school buddy that worked as a clerk in a local community pharmacy. The owner drove Corvettes..... At 19 years old that sealed the deal for me and will keep me employed until I choose not to work anymore.
Point is you need to find a vocation that not anyone can do.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

If you don't have a marketable skill, you're basically screwed.

I have an MBA but a lot of people have MBA's.

Point is you need to find a vocation that not anyone can do.

Which is why although I have a bachelors degree in economics and an MBA I went back to school for a two-year associates degree so I could earn a better living. Sometimes life is funny that way.
I will admit that I am the poster boy for poor career decisions. Hopefully the funeral director path is a good one because I'm running out of time.

 

[Steeltime]

Hopefully the funeral director path is a good one because I'm running out of time.

I think you made a mistake. This death thing is a passing fad.

 

[MTC]

If you don't have a marketable skill, you're basically screwed. Back in the dark ages when I was trying to sort out my life, I started in college majoring in industrial management, couldn't stand it and got out. Within 5 years of graduation there wasn't any industry in this country to manage anyway.
Changed to chemistry, but was still lost as what to do with it. Had a high school buddy that worked as a clerk in a local community pharmacy. The owner drove Corvettes..... At 19 years old that sealed the deal for me and will keep me employed until I choose not to work anymore.
Point is you need to find a vocation that not anyone can do.

This^^^

When I was at UGA I started off with majoring in criminal justice, which got quiete boring by the end of my freshman year. Sophmore year I change majors to software engineering, always had a interest in coding, deployments and using different softwares to get tasks running, but the workload was crazy and burnt me out on school by winter break. I toughed out the semester until summer vacation, and told myself I'll come back after a year. I go back home to ABQ. Not really looking for a job, but just to kinda get away from what I was used to for a couple of years. Meet my parents, find out my aunt married a top of the line rental car guy, they needed a service agent, so I said to myself "I'll ask what they need and work for the summer"----the job got fun getting to test out the current cars on the market, meeting various people, got to meet some of the cast of breaking bad, reporting vehicle issues to distribution, and again communicating. It became fun and challenge. After that I stayed in ABQ, got promoted up to help co-own the store, a year later, get approved for a second franchise location. It's been a blast so far. I still do have an interest in engineering and may go back someday. But I think the biggest thing is because I got to determine which position I wanted to work in for being co-owner I chose to be outside around the vehicles. Point being is---it's possible to make it. It may not be your dream job, but there is always something if you put work into it

 

[SteelerSask2]

I love this place. Capitalism is king. Until it exports my bloated truck body insert five rivets union job somewhere else at a cheaper rate. Anyone who thinks they don't need to have a beyond grade 12 education in 2016 should try to get a job at fantasyland. You don't necessarily need an ariy fairy useless liberal arts education. But you better get a useful degree in a marketable field or an equally useful trade in a modern economy workforce. Or you are as ****** useless as anyone on welfare.

 

[ark steel]

I was recently told that there are only about 4k people in the US that can do my job. Averge age is somewhere around 60is. Lots of opportunity for young folks with a brain and, more importantly, lack of personality. Takes a lot of effort, though.

Oddly, at conventions, there always seems to be a booth for outsourcing to India.

 

[MTC]

I love this place. Capitalism is king. Until it exports my bloated truck body insert five rivets union job somewhere else at a cheaper rate. Anyone who thinks they don't need to have a beyond grade 12 education in 2016 should try to get a job at fantasyland. You don't necessarily need an ariy fairy useless liberal arts education. But you better get a useful degree in a marketable field or an equally useful trade in a modern economy workforce. Or you are as ****** useless as anyone on welfare.

I'd go with a modern economy workforce trade. Too many people go into college with no true intentions other than to have a degree. No knock on college. If you know what you want to do for a career, and know your college courses then do it. But a job that has competition, social interraction, a understanding of current trends, solutions and basic computer skills should be enough to develop skills over time. How many kids understand that though? Everyone wants to be an entertainer these days

 

[SteelerSask2]

Degrees are for defined professions. Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, Nurses, Accountants etc. I'm telling my own kid when the time comes, you get one shot at the money we've set aside, so you better use it smart. You can take Art History as an elective to meet girls for one semester, but if you want a degree in that **** you better be prepared to be unemployed. Trade fit for the modern economy is pretty safe bet. Most kids don't want to work anymore though. Computers have made us all soft. Kids think sitting in front of one for a living is great.

 

[Steelin]

I was fifteen and one of my friends was a computer programmer. Computers filled large rooms at that time. He convinced me that with my math abilities computer programming would be a good field for me. I graduated with a 2 year degree in 1983. It took me a while to find a job in my field (the 80's sucked around here for jobs, interest on anything and just about everything else). I love my job and unless we're sent back to the stone age I think I will be able to be employable.

 

[SteelerSask2]

It's not that I think computers are bad per say. And there are certainly a huge majority of industries that rely upon them and people to maintain them. I just think it is sad what has happened to the work ethic and most peoples ability to do even the simplest of repairs and fixes on their own property.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I have an MBA but a lot of people have MBA's.


Which is why although I have a bachelors degree in economics and an MBA I went back to school for a two-year associates degree so I could earn a better living. Sometimes life is funny that way.
I will admit that I am the poster boy for poor career decisions. Hopefully the funeral director path is a good one because I'm running out of time.

I guess you would have to look at competition in your particular area, but demographics are definitely on your side. I just couldn't possibly do that job myself. But good on all those who can as it is certainly a very important service.