It's not possible...

[wig]

It completely defies physics.

The Grenfell Tower in in London caught fire in June. (June 14th to be precise). It burned for 2 days and 12 hours. The entire building was a conflagration. The beams MUST have softened. They MUST have. The heat MUST have reached a temperature capable of softening the struts and as we know, all high-rise steel frame buildings have a critical design flaw in them.

I cannot comprehend how this building did not fail in a symmetrical collapse as it should have been designed to do.

Clearly I need to look into this. The architect obviously ****** up.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Not all buildings are built the same. I am so sick of this bullshit. We know why they fell, the explanation is simple and and absolute. My father is an engineer from Carnegie Melon who wants to just rip people heads off with **** like this. Love you wig but this one is just bullshit and makes me furious.

 

[Superman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289

maybe if someone had parked an airplane in it.

 

[IndySteel]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289

maybe if someone had parked an airplane in it.

Loaded with jet fuel and people.

 

[Spike]

Did it have 10,000 gallons of jet fuel igniting the fire?

Did it have a massive explosion inside weakening the structural core of the building at the same time?



Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - The World Trade Center

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/

 

[wig]

Lebanon (and Supe), admittedly the Grenfell fire is different. The outer shell of the building burned and from that the insides caught on fire. I'm not willing to die on that hill.

However Lebanon, it seems your father is NOT one of the hundreds of architects or engineers who have specifically questioned the tremendously poor reporting of the "official" conspiracy failure events for the three towers.

Supe, you could indeed park a plane in the building, but your realize, those planes are essentially made of light aluminum and plastic on the outside. They don't "punch through" steel frame buildings like that. The engines and wheels certainly do, but ultimately the steel beams on the outside of the towers were much stronger than the aircraft.

But it's not worth arguing over. People choose to believe what they feel is most reasonable. That makes sense. Personally, I find it unreasonable to accept that 16 guys from a 4th world country managed to make complete buffoons out of the most advanced military and most technologically advanced country on the planet. I find it unacceptable that they either accidentally or through sheer brilliance that we can't even fathom managed to bring down 3 buildings in the the heart of our economic capital with surgical perfection allowing for a clean and speedy cleanup. I find it unreasonably inconvenient for them, that in their nearly perfect day they botched their Pentagon attack and hit a useless wing and had no more effect than wiping out the audit of lost military budget funds.

But, other folks find it unreasonable that anything else could have possibly occurred. I get it.

 

[wig]

And Spike, never use the Popular Mechanics Debunking article. It's terrible. It basically rehashes the NIST crap which is useless.

You'll note neither NIST nor Popular Mechanics deals with the core columns throughout the collapse. Those columns go from the base of the building (where they are their thickest) all the way to the top. The collapse model laughable as it is, only deals with the floors and the truss beams. It completely ignores the core columns. Where did they go?

But again, there is simply no point fellas. We can all just agree to disagree.

Sorry Spike, I misread your post. My fault.

 

[Superman]

wig, those "explosions" could have been nothing more than walls falling or floors dropping.

and when you say that "the vast majority of jet fuel is expended at that point" are you inferring that the fuel is now gone, and it's safe? **** was burning, regardless. that "light" airplane weighs nearly 400,000 pounds. and all you'd need to do - as is proven - is start the pancake effect of floors dropping onto each other for the building to fall.

 

[Spike]

I find it unreasonable to accept that 16 guys from a 4th world country managed to bring down 3 buildings

There it is, that's what this is about isn't it? Refusal to face reality.

You can't accept the facts as truth - thus the truther" is born.

Accept it, it happened. They did it.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I don't have time for to find it now but there is clear video of the floor saggin right before it collapsed. You can see the cascade effect on video. I don't understand what people think they want see here. Wig I would love to get my father on here to discuss this. Unfortunately I also know with his lack of social skills he woud also get booted in a matter of minutes.

 

[Elfiero]

Not all buildings are built the same. I am so sick of this bullshit. We know why they fell, the explanation is simple and and absolute. My father is an engineer from Carnegie Melon who wants to just rip people heads off with **** like this. Love you wig but this one is just bullshit and makes me furious.

So then you understand that AGW is real?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

So then you understand that AGW is real?

Actually it helps me understand that the bullshit science they quote on that is still infantile in its understanding of the environment. When it come to Global warming we really know nothing about the true workings because we do not have good data without manipulations and even if we did it is not over a long enough time frame or accurate enough, as we use fossil records to make the kind of conclusions being made. That would be another discussion I would love to see him have with you liberals. It would be very entertaining to see you argue science with a nuclear engineer! Problem is he can be a bigger ******* than you if that is possible.

 

[Sarge]

those planes are essentially made of light aluminum and plastic on the outside.

While aluminum itself is light weight in comparison to some other metals, the aluminum they use on aircraft skin is often made thicker so that it is stronger. Often times it is mixed with various other alloys. Also, they use neat things like steel and titanium on other parts of the plane and in the skin as well. Plastics are in their infancy, and were likely not used on the skin of the airplanes flown into the WTC.

Add in things like magnesium(which is used because it is as strong as aluminum, but lighter) that burn at a much higher temperature than steel, aluminum and jet fuel, and if ignited, it could burn through steel with relative ease. In large quantities it is hard to ignite, but if you get it going, good luck putting it out.

 

[Spike]

WTF? People are refusing to believe the planes could penetrate a building?

 

[Elfiero]

Actually it helps me understand that the bullshit science they quote on that is still infantile in its understanding of the environment. When it come to Global warming we really know nothing about the true workings because we do not have good data without manipulations and even if we did it is not over a long enough time frame or accurate enough, as we use fossil records to make the kind of conclusions being made. That would be another discussion I would love to see him have with you liberals. It would be very entertaining to see you argue science with a nuclear engineer! Problem is he can be a bigger ******* than you if that is possible.

We don't need any of those things you mentioned.

1. It's a fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

2. We have been digging up buried CO2 in the form of fossil fuels and burning then dumping it into the atmosphere for over 100 years.

3. 98% of climate scientists agree with 1 and 2 because they are known facts.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

We don't need any of those things you mentioned.

1. It's a fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

2. We have been digging up buried CO2 in the form of fossil fuels and burning then dumping it into the atmosphere for over 100 years.

3. 98% of climate scientists agree with 1 and 2 because they are known facts.

Bullshit on the 98% that is a made up lie and has been endlessly debunked.
CO2 is a natural part of our environment and its release is fueling a greening period for this planet if that trend continues much of the CO2 will be sequestered back into the environment it came from. Warming if happening will not necessarily be the disaster enviroidiots say. Again we don't have a full understanding of the ecosystems on this planet to have enough understanding to try and make the predictions that are being made and proven wrong almost daily. I don't know what the truth is on the environment anymore than the ******* scientists think they do. We could end up ******* things up even more by trying to fix a problem we don't understand and anything else is just a money grab.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steelr4evr]

wig, those "explosions" could have been nothing more than walls falling or floors dropping.

and when you say that "the vast majority of jet fuel is expended at that point" are you inferring that the fuel is now gone, and it's safe? **** was burning, regardless. that "light" airplane weighs nearly 400,000 pounds. and all you'd need to do - as is proven - is start the pancake effect of floors dropping onto each other for the building to fall.

Take 400,000 pounds traveling at hundreds of.miles an hour. That's some serious force and power delivered in a focused fashion like a bullet plus jet fuel.

 

[hamster]

 

[Elfiero]

Bullshit on the 98% that is a made up lie and has been endlessly debunked.
CO2 is a natural part of our environment and its release is fueling a greening period for this planet if that trend continues much of the CO2 will be sequestered back into the environment it came from. Warming if happening will not necessarily be the disaster enviroidiots say. Again we don't have a full understanding of the ecosystems on this planet to have enough understanding to try and make the predictions that are being made and proven wrong almost daily. I don't know what the truth is on the environment anymore than the ******* scientists think they do. We could end up ******* things up even more by trying to fix a problem we don't understand and anything else is just a money grab.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

Well the ~98 number is fact.

As far as greening the planet, yeah there is a curve there and you won't like when we come down from the peak.

When we do desertification will be in high gear and that will take away large swaths of vegetation that would convert CO2.

I've explained these things over and over to the hopeless bunch here that think this is a political issue. I thought you might be different....but you're equally hopeless.

Here is how you "think":

The idea of 911 being an inside job is ridiculous! How could our own government be united in such an evil cause, just the logistics and loyalty needed from hundreds....it's laughable!

The idea of AGW being a conspiracy? Of course it's true, never mind the loyalty needed from tens of thousands of scientists and 80 science academies around the world all united against capitalism. It's true.....because I want it to be.

 

[Elfiero]

Well the ~98 number is fact.

As far as greening the planet, yeah there is a curve there and you won't like when we come down from the peak.

When we do desertification will be in high gear and that will take away large swaths of vegetation that would convert CO2.

I've explained these things over and over to the hopeless bunch here that think this is a political issue. I thought you might be different....but you're equally hopeless.

Here is how you "think":

The idea of 911 being an inside job is ridiculous! How could our own government be united in such an evil cause, just the logistics and loyalty needed from hundreds....it's laughable!

The idea of AGW being a conspiracy? Of course it's true, never mind the loyalty needed from tens of thousands of scientists and 80 science academies around the world all united against capitalism. It's true.....because I want it to be.

Forgot the oceans reaching saturation point for CO2.....but it's ok. It's just conspiracy of facts against your type.

 

[wig]

I find it unreasonable to accept that 16 guys from a 4th world country managed to bring down 3 buildings

That's a pretty liberal paraphrase there...

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Forgot the oceans reaching saturation point for CO2.....but it's ok. It's just conspiracy of facts against your type.

You smarmy little ****, what is my type? You don't know me or what I believe. Show me this 98% fact ! Show me where this was not a numbered pulled out of someones ***.

 

[DBS1970]

It completely defies physics.

The Grenfell Tower in in London caught fire in June. (June 14th to be precise). It burned for 2 days and 12 hours. The entire building was a conflagration. The beams MUST have softened. They MUST have. The heat MUST have reached a temperature capable of softening the struts and as we know, all high-rise steel frame buildings have a critical design flaw in them.

I cannot comprehend how this building did not fail in a symmetrical collapse as it should have been designed to do.

Clearly I need to look into this. The architect obviously ****** up.

The fire started in cladding on the exterior of the building. It didn't take a hit from a heavy passenger jet that knocked fireproof insulation of off structural members and pour burning jet fuel down stair wells and elevator shafts.

 

[hamster]

I think Russia did it.

 

[Steeltime]

Supe, you could indeed park a plane in the building, but your realize, those planes are essentially made of light aluminum and plastic on the outside. They don't "punch through" steel frame buildings like that. The engines and wheels certainly do, but ultimately the steel beams on the outside of the towers were much stronger than the aircraft.

Two points:

(1) Your analysis ignores the fact that vastly softer materials can be driven through even steel in a cyclone. Here is a photo of a corn stalk that was driven into a radiator. Do you think the corn stalk was "stronger" than a truck radiator?

(2) Wig - videos showed the plane skewering the building. SHOWED IT AS IT HAPPENED:

You can see the nose seem to crumple, but the massive engines plow through the building. Know why I say that happened?

Because the damn gif shows it happening, wig. Are you suggesting that some nefarious schemers reinforced these passenger aircraft so that they could penetrate the building? And that these planes - which are weighed before takeoff, given the critical importance of fuel consumption based on weight - somehow escaped detection despite being inspected and weighed before takeoff?