Jackson Released

[Ike Kelly]

The Jackson trade was bad, but Flores was leaving for a promotion not matter what. OC>whatever title he had here as well as a quicker path bad to a head coaching job.

Already pointed out the trade was minuscule in risk. As Stryker pointed out all picks were voided and PIT only sacrificed about $2 mil in salary which is the average RFA tender, a blip on the total salary cap structuring. Omar can free up plenty of cap space easily with how TJ, Minkha, & DJ extensions were done. Extensions with Heyward and maybe Trubisky will add even more room, some pundits say up to $20-30 mil in cap space.

Flores is predicting his next HC landing spot. It may not be in WAS either. If the team sells, new ownership will probably clean house in the front office. Plus he's suing Goodell and the League too, so while he may have some ownership backing he definitely has others who won’t.

 

[slashsteel]

Already pointed out the trade was minuscule in risk. As Stryker pointed out all picks were voided and PIT only sacrificed about $2 mil in salary which is the average RFA tender, a blip on the total salary cap structuring. Omar can free up plenty of cap space easily with how TJ, Minkha, & DJ extensions were done. Extensions with Heyward and maybe Trubisky will add even more room, some pundits say up to $20-30 mil in cap space.

Flores is predicting his next HC landing spot. It may not be in WAS either. If the team sells, new ownership will probably clean house in the front office. Plus he's suing Goodell and the League too, so while he may have some ownership backing he definitely has others who won’t.

Would have been nice to see what he could have done in Pittsburgh. Maybe in a few years the team can revisit the opportunity.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Already pointed out the trade was minuscule in risk. As Stryker pointed out all picks were voided and PIT only sacrificed about $2 mil in salary which is the average RFA tender, a blip on the total salary cap structuring. Omar can free up plenty of cap space easily with how TJ, Minkha, & DJ extensions were done. Extensions with Heyward and maybe Trubisky will add even more room, some pundits say up to $20-30 mil in cap space.

Flores is predicting his next HC landing spot. It may not be in WAS either. If the team sells, new ownership will probably clean house in the front office. Plus he's suing Goodell and the League too, so while he may have some ownership backing he definitely has others who won’t.

Small risk or big risk, the trade was did not make much sense. A minimal as it was, it was still wasted cap space and an overall poor job by the Steelers in evaluating Jackson's health.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Small risk or big risk, the trade was did not make much sense. A minimal as it was, it was still wasted cap space and an overall poor job by the Steelers in evaluating Jackson's health.

Poor job in evaluating Jackson’s health? Back injuries are a notoriously difficult to treat if they are subjective in nature (non-structural). Self reported tolerances are provided by the product (player). That’s the game you play with free agency. Was it Colbert’s fault that Ladarius Green and the Chargers medical staff failed to provide the “self reported headaches” the player was having before the trade, which led to ending his career? Hell no. Did he report it to the league offices? Probably, but we will never know.

Jackson wanted out of WAS and would have done anything to get out. WAS wanted Jackson out of there and did everything they could (like paying the majority of his prorated salary, including the entire bonuses due up until the trade) to get him out of there.

It happens all….the….time. Which is one of the reasons why PIT chooses not to dab frequently too much into FA. They work with their home grown players primarily.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Poor job in evaluating Jackson’s health? Back injuries are a notoriously difficult to treat if they are subjective in nature (non-structural). Self reported tolerances are provided by the product (player). That’s the game you play with free agency. Was it Colbert’s fault that Ladarius Green and the Chargers medical staff failed to provide the “self reported headaches” the player was having before the trade, which led to ending his career? Hell no. Did he report it to the league offices? Probably, but we will never know.

Jackson wanted out of WAS and would have done anything to get out. WAS wanted Jackson out of there and did everything they could (like paying the majority of his prorated salary, including the entire bonuses due up until the trade) to get him out of there.

It happens all….the….time. Which is one of the reasons why PIT chooses not to dab frequently too much into FA. They work with their home grown players primarily.

Spot on about back injuries. They're always bad so you don't take on a player with a back injury.

 

[stillwright]

It will come down to if he is healthy or not.

I’m not a team doctor or trainer and I’m sure they have a way better handle on his health future.

There will not be a second offer unless they feel he is totally healthy and ready to play ….

There will be no risk reward offer, if he is signed, he will be expected to compete.


Salute the nation

Maybe they should have simply went this route the first go round.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Maybe they should have simply went this route the first go round.

Fully agree, but it was a 50/50 shot and failed.


Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

Fully agree, but it was a 50/50 shot and failed.


Salute the nation

They made the trade with Jackson unable to pass a physical. How was that 50/50? He was healthy and was a scratch the final week. I wonder how healthy he actually was. So if he is deemed healthy with 3 or 4 weeks left. Does he play a big role in our defense? Doubtful. Horrible transaction that just wasted cap space. Now if he had another year on his contract it might have been worth the trade. I wonder who orchestrated this trade. How it all came about. An injured CB ......an the injury is their back. Smh

 

[Drink IRON City]

They made the trade with Jackson unable to pass a physical. How was that 50/50? He was healthy and was a scratch the final week. I wonder how healthy he actually was. So if he is deemed healthy with 3 or 4 weeks left. Does he play a big role in our defense? Doubtful. Horrible transaction that just wasted cap space. Now if he had another year on his contract it might have been worth the trade. I wonder who orchestrated this trade. How it all came about. An injured CB ......an the injury is their back. Smh

I think I can’t give you exact percentages but I’d say the STEELERS took the flyer in thinking he was going to be healthy enough to play at some point during the season. It didn’t pan out and the 50/50 would be indicative in their thinking.


Salute the nation

 

[Confluence]

Player contracts and cap room have NO impact on coaches/assistant salaries. Their contracts are non-inclusive to the salary cap. The trade was a very low risk for PIT. They only sacrificed about 2x the minimum yearly salary of a vested player.

I understand that coaches salaries are not related to the cap, but the money wasted on WJIII still cost the "tight" Steelers. If they had that cash back, they would have more cap room and could have used that to increase pay to others, like Flores.

 

[madinsomniac]

The trade was simply a gamble that if we made the playoffs and Witherspoon wasn’t recovered from his injuries we added another starter level DB

I understand why they did it but it was basically calling a raise chasing a flush on the river… not a great bet…

 

[Ike Kelly]

They made the trade with Jackson unable to pass a physical. How was that 50/50? He was healthy and was a scratch the final week. I wonder how healthy he actually was. So if he is deemed healthy with 3 or 4 weeks left. Does he play a big role in our defense? Doubtful. Horrible transaction that just wasted cap space. Now if he had another year on his contract it might have been worth the trade. I wonder who orchestrated this trade. How it all came about. An injured CB ......a the injury is their back. Smh

Huh? WJIII was traded on 11/1. He was then placed on IR on 11/12. His first availability would have occurred on week 17. He never was reactivated. All this talk about carryover and cap space is practically irrelevant. His salary cap cost was less than the RFA average. The cap calculation only uses the top 51 player cap charges. So WJIII salary didn’t impact any cap space and I’m not even sure the carry over would count either since he wasn’t a rostered player. A review of the CBA is needed to answer that.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I understand that coaches salaries are not related to the cap, but the money wasted on WJIII still cost the "tight" Steelers. If they had that cash back, they would have more cap room and could have used that to increase pay to others, like Flores.

Increase pay to whom? When? In last quarter of the season? What FA would have been signed that late in the year? Besides PIT had $6+ mil in cap space at the time. They weren't that “tight” of cap space.

Flores was not staying with a pay increase. To have a greater chance at a HC position once more, he needs to be a coordinator again. Something Rivera considered heavily as he and Tomlin are good friends. He wasn’t going to be a DC at PIT in 2023. It’s possible he could have been named Asst HC by Tomlin, but I don’t think he would have done it so quick after Coach Mitch had retired. So Flores opted to do what he thought was best for his future.

 

[madinsomniac]

Huh? WJIII was traded on 11/1. He was then placed on IR on 11/12. His first availability would have occurred on week 17. He never was reactivated. All this talk about carryover and cap space is practically irrelevant. His salary cap cost was less than the RFA average. The cap calculation only uses the top 51 player cap charges. So WJIII salary didn’t impact any cap space and I’m not even sure the carry over would count either since he wasn’t a rostered player. A review of the CBA is needed to answer that.

The rule of 51 only applies to the offseason… during the season all the players salaries not on the practice squad count towards it… including the IR guys… if jj watt goes on IR, we don’t get that money as cap relief like the NHL does ….

Yes we lost a little under 3 million dollars in rollover money with this trade… it was a gamble that came about because Witherspoon had lingering injuries all season… had he not gone on IR it would have cost us less because we wouldn’t have replaced him on the active roster with another player’s salary

 

[Ike Kelly]

The rule of 51 only applies to the offseason… during the season all the players salaries not on the practice squad count towards it… including the IR guys… if jj watt goes on IR, we don’t get that money as cap relief like the NHL does ….

Yes we lost a little under 3 million dollars in rollover money with this trade… it was a gamble that came about because Witherspoon had lingering injuries all season… had he not gone on IR it would have cost us less because we wouldn’t have replaced him on the active roster with another player’s salary

Thanks for clarifying insomniac, that totally slipped past me. The point I was trying to make was PIT still had cap roll over, which included after all the player incentives, and bonuses were paid out. Fortunately, Pierre was available to bail out Witherspoon‘s injury or we were going to be very thin on border corners.

 

[slashsteel]

The rule of 51 only applies to the offseason… during the season all the players salaries not on the practice squad count towards it… including the IR guys… if jj watt goes on IR, we don’t get that money as cap relief like the NHL does ….

Yes we lost a little under 3 million dollars in rollover money with this trade… it was a gamble that came about because Witherspoon had lingering injuries all season… had he not gone on IR it would have cost us less because we wouldn’t have replaced him on the active roster with another player’s salary

Yeah for me had there not been an injury question mark, I wouldn't have blinked. But there was.... I know they loved the guy pre-draft but I prefer to take on players in trades with less injury concerns.

 

[Confluence]

Increase pay to whom? When? In last quarter of the season? What FA would have been signed that late in the year? Besides PIT had $6+ mil in cap space at the time. They weren't that “tight” of cap space.

Flores was not staying with a pay increase. To have a greater chance at a HC position once more, he needs to be a coordinator again. Something Rivera considered heavily as he and Tomlin are good friends. He wasn’t going to be a DC at PIT in 2023. It’s possible he could have been named Asst HC by Tomlin, but I don’t think he would have done it so quick after Coach Mitch had retired. So Flores opted to do what he thought was best for his future.

When you are near the margin, the money matters more.

My point was general not specific, but now I will make a specific point:
The Steelers could have offered Sutton $3M more, over 3 years, including at least $3M more gteed, if they had not paid WJIII.
Maybe that gets him signed so that CB is of less need. Now it is the largest draft need, and OL slips into the next round.

 

[Ike Kelly]

When you are near the margin, the money matters more.

My point was general not specific, but now I will make a specific point:
The Steelers could have offered Sutton $3M more, over 3 years, including at least $3M more gteed, if they had not paid WJIII.
Maybe that gets him signed so that CB is of less need. Now it is the largest draft need, and OL slips into the next round.

Sure, that’s plausible and probably they did. Restructuring a contract would have allowed that. I hypothesize that PIT wanted less guaranteed $ and a 4 year deal so the “guaranteed“ was a resigning bonus to allow more flexibility to restructure for future bonuses on the $ throughout the contract. Obviously, Sutton‘s agent sold him on the 3 year contract (which is starting to become more common) because the cap is going to keep going up for the foreseeable future. If he stays healthy and productive he’s got another nice contract coming, which will be his last big one.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Sure, that’s plausible and probably they did. Restructuring a contract would have allowed that. I hypothesize that PIT wanted less guaranteed $ and a 4 year deal so the “guaranteed“ was a resigning bonus to allow more flexibility to restructure for future bonuses on the $ throughout the contract. Obviously, Sutton‘s agent sold him on the 3 year contract (which is starting to become more common) because the cap is going to keep going up for the foreseeable future. If he stays healthy and productive he’s got another nice contract coming, which will be his last big one.

Thanks Ike and I get this


Proven over and over……….. It’s all about the money.

I don’t blame any player for getting the most they can and strategizing for their future pay out.


Salute the nation

 

[Fiji Mariner]

DIC it’s ALL about the money

Now somebody cut Stephon his 4.75 million so we can finally be done with his dead money…damn sucks to STILL be paying him

 

[Drink IRON City]

DIC it’s ALL about the money

Now somebody cut Stephon his 4.75 million so we can finally be done with his dead money…damn sucks to STILL be paying him

Aren’t we clear of his cap ramifications? The new fiscal / NFL year starts 12 noon Wednesday .


Salute the nation

 

[Litos]

Sure, that’s plausible and probably they did. Restructuring a contract would have allowed that. I hypothesize that PIT wanted less guaranteed $ and a 4 year deal so the “guaranteed“ was a resigning bonus to allow more flexibility to restructure for future bonuses on the $ throughout the contract. Obviously, Sutton‘s agent sold him on the 3 year contract (which is starting to become more common) because the cap is going to keep going up for the foreseeable future. If he stays healthy and productive he’s got another nice contract coming, which will be his last big one.

Maybe the Steelers wanted 4 years if they were paying that much avg salary

 

[Drink IRON City]

Maybe they should have simply went this route the first go round.

They did, that’s why they signed him, in hopes of him being available with-in the season.

I hear what you are saying and hind-sight can be 20/20. I think they did what they did under the circumstances they did it in.

It didn’t work, plain and simple but they felt it was worth the risk.


Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

They did, that’s why they signed him, in hopes of him being available with-in the season.

I hear what you are saying and hind-sight can be 20/20. I think they did what they did under the circumstances they did it in.

It didn’t work, plain and simple but they felt it was worth the risk.


Salute the nation

They traded for an injured player hoping he would get healthy to play at some point. Really? He was supposed to be a healthy scratch the last week of the season. Do you think at any point he would have played any role in our defense if he was deemed healthy say with 5 weeks left? maybe 6 weeks? Being deemed healthy and actually healthy are two different things. He had an injured back. It was simply a horrible move knowing he was injured. Simply wasted $$$. At no point was he going to play any role on our team coming here with an injured back.

 

[madinsomniac]

Aren’t we clear of his cap ramifications? The new fiscal / NFL year starts 12 noon Wednesday .


Salute the nation

Nope because we pushed half of his hit into this year…