Jameis Winston Going Pro

[Drink IRON City]

Unbeilvable !!!!!!!




Salute the nation

 

[jitter77]

Between the ears? As in intelligence? Or common sense? Because if you are implying the kid is lacking in intelligence, I call bull crap. He was a 4.0 H.S. student and apparently has above a 3.0 gpa at FSU (on the 3.0 list there). Now, if you are saying he lacks common sense/maturity, that's another thing and you won't get an argument from me. However, I will say that not all people are the same at 24, 27, 34, etc. that they are at 21 or 22.

Winston is definitely a polarizing figure. It will be interesting to see which side of the argument he proves right.

The guy can not speak proper english. I highly doubt his GPAs are accurate. If they are i think there is something seriously wrong with the education system. Bradshaw and Marino may not have scored well, but they are well spoken. Could you imagine winston hosting a pregame show.... Cam Newton is acceptable in interviews. I just don't see winston being very bright.

On the flip side look at manziel. He is smart well spoken, but a total moron off the field. Book smarts only take you so far.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The guy can not speak proper english. I highly doubt his GPAs are accurate. If they are i think there is something seriously wrong with the education system. Bradshaw and Marino may not have scored well, but they are well spoken. Could you imagine winston hosting a pregame show.... Cam Newton is acceptable in interviews. I just don't see winston being very bright.

On the flip side look at manziel. He is smart well spoken, but a total moron off the field. Book smarts only take you so far.

That's the point right there. "Football smarts" and "book smarts" = two different things and it is possible for a kid to be "dumber than a **** flinging monkey" on the book side and still be a great football player. The Wonderlic is not an accurate assessment of "football smarts".

 

[Troglodyte]

That's the point right there. "Football smarts" and "book smarts" = two different things and it is possible for a kid to be "dumber than a **** flinging monkey" on the book side and still be a great football player. The Wonderlic is not an accurate assessment of "football smarts".

For NFL QBs, smarts come in handy. If I were a NFL GM, I would rely on the Wonderlic for all positions. Not to evaluate football talent but to evaluate how a young man about to become very wealthy would likely handle it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

For NFL QBs, smarts come in handy. If I were a NFL GM, I would rely on the Wonderlic for all positions. Not to evaluate football talent but to evaluate how a young man about to become very wealthy would likely handle it.

They do rely on the wonderlic ... to determine if a young man is "too book smart" to play professional football. I.e. if he has interests outside of football that may interfere with him becoming exactly what they want and/or need. There's "smart" as it relates to us in the average work a day world and there's the "football smart", an ability to focus in on football to the exclusion of everything else but football, to play the game with an innate knowledge of what's going on on the field and what's required of that player at that moment. Of course more goes into being football smart than these things.

The two are not mutually exclusive, but if I'm a GM and I have to choose one or the other, I'm looking for the guy who is "football smart" over the guy who is "smart". But of course physical talent like a rocket arm and size also come into play. Interestingly enough, young Mr. Winston has not taken the Wonderlic yet, so the point is moot (or "mute" as some on here say).

 

[slashsteel]

I defend Tomlin and Colbert often, and they have done a great job (especially recently).

But I cannot and will not defend their decision to hold on to Landry. Dude is straight *** cheeks, yet is always guaranteed a roster spot.

they have done a great job lately? our secondary and pass rush disagree

 

[Troglodyte]

They do rely on the wonderlic ... to determine if a young man is "too book smart" to play professional football. I.e. if he has interests outside of football that may interfere with him becoming exactly what they want and/or need.

No. That is NOT what the Wonderlic is used for!

What GM ever said that?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

No. That is NOT what the Wonderlic is used for!

What GM ever said that?

Google some of the stories about the Rolle kid who got the Rhodes Scholarship and the questions that NFL GMs were asking about him. Hint: they questioned whether he was too smart to play football given his other interests.

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/2/12/5401774/myron-rolle-profile-florida-state-football-nfl-rhodes-scholar

Or the questions surrounding Greg McElroy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Greg-McElroy-almost-aced-the-Wonderlic-Is-he-to?urn=ncaaf-327510

http://www.scienceandsupermodels.com/2011/02/28/is-alabama-quarterback-greg-mcelroy-too-smart-for-the-nfl/

Or maybe it's just the coaches who use the Wonderlic to weed out players that might be "too smart"

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/4/11/5604444/some-nfl-coaches-might-be-scared-off-by-a-strong-wonderlic-score

In any event, I'm sure you get the point by now. That is exactly ONE of the things the Wonderlic IS used for; to weed out players that might be too smart and mark them for further evaluation.

 

[Southern Steeler]

If he can fine a cure for the cranial rectal inversion that he suffers from he might make it in the NFL. Otherwise, Vince Young part II

 

[Troglodyte]

In any event, I'm sure you get the point by now. That is exactly ONE of the things the Wonderlic IS used for; to weed out players that might be too smart and mark them for further evaluation.

I don't think I could get the point any less as it's nonsense. The Wonderlic scores for players like Rolle and McElroy are absolutely useless and unnecessary. I suppose the NFL GMs weren't convinced these guys were brilliant before they took the Wonderlic? Those guys were marginal NFL prospects and prospects like them represent less than 1% of all NFL prospects.

To suggest a good Wonderlic could be viewed as a negative for a typical NFL prospect is ridiculous.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I don't think I could get the point any less as it's nonsense. The Wonderlic scores for players like Rolle and McElroy are absolutely useless and unnecessary. I suppose the NFL GMs weren't convinced these guys were brilliant before they took the Wonderlic? Those guys were marginal NFL prospects and prospects like them represent less than 1% of all NFL prospects.

To suggest a good Wonderlic could be viewed as a negative for a typical NFL prospect is ridiculous.

Well you go on believing that guys who score extremely high on the Wonderlic aren't viewed in a suspicious or negative manner by coaches/GMs/scouts and I'll go on believing that it can and does happen; often. Of course, the original point was that there is a difference between "football smarts" and "book smarts" and no matter what a guy scores on the Wonderlic, if he has "football smarts" and physical skills, he'll be drafted. A guy like Winston, who has shown "football smarts" and has great physical skills will be drafted high in the first round.

What he does with that opportunity, and not his Wonderlic score, will determine who he is as a pro. Just ask Marino and Bradshaw.

Just an interesting note: There is a student run organization at Harvard (one would assume very smart kids who use "proper" English). These kids did an analysis of the correlation between Wonderlic score and performance as a professional QB. Their conclusion:

It’s unclear whether intellectual proficiency isn’t as important for quarterback as we might think, or that the Wonderlic isn’t very good at measuring it; regardless, it’s very clear that the Wonderlic isn’t, and shouldn’t be considered, a good predictor of quarterback performance. At the end of the day, scouts are better off watching tape, pro days, and the combine rather than reading test scores.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2014/04/wondering-about-the-wonderlic-does-it-predict-quarterback-performance/

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

they have done a great job lately? our secondary and pass rush disagree

Our All Pro draft picks and division championship disagree with your assessment also

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

You never understood the hype of Cutler but you're in love with Winston? Cutler came from Vanderbilt and had no one else on the team. Winston has played with serious talent his two years at FSU, including a first round WR which he sorely missed this year. Just look at both their final seasons, and tell me how it is that Winston's stats destroy Cutlers

Cutler - 59.1%, 3073 yards, 6.7 ypa, 21 TD's 9 INTS.
Winston - 65.3%, 3907 yards, 8.4 ypa, 25 TD's 18 INTS.

18 INTs at the college level is HORRIBLE! Winston is going pro because his numbers decreased A TON in his second season. His third season would almost be guaranteed to continue that trend with his habits. He's a big strong QB, but he makes bad decisions both on AND off the field. You take his first read away and he forces balls. He's a major project with an attitude issue. He's no where near 2 times the prospect that Mariota is. You call it a gimmick offense, but it sets up plays very well. It gets Defenses to commit to stopping one thing, and opens up another. They throw screen passes to entice the D up, as soon as they come up they hit them over the top. It's not much different from our offense in that sense. Mariota has holes too, he's gotta learn to play under center, but he can read the defense, and he doesn't force throws. He's smart with the ball, has a good arm, he's accurate, he's got good size and athleticism. I'll take Mariota over Winston every single time.
.

Wow. Where do I start.

So Cutler's best year is on par with Winston's worst?! lol. In fact, Cutler only threw for over 3k once in his FOUR years at Vandy

As a redshirt freshman, Winston had:

4057 Yards, 65% comp, 10 P/A, 40 TD's, 10 Ints.

Those numbers absolutely blow Cutler's best year out of the water. Not even a damn comparison. I agree the INT's were up significantly the 2nd year and he did force the ball often, but his receiving core was largely comprised of freshman and his coach even mentioned that many of the picks were bad route's by the WR's.

Additionally- are you claiming that he is going pro because he is afraid of a down hill trend?!? Have you not seen what happened to Gurley or Lattimore?! Why in the hell would he risk injury when he is most likely going in the top 10? You make a very tenuous argument here.

I get it- you like Marcus. He's a great guy. But how can you claim that he is good at 'reading' a defense? In what world are we praising QB's for throwing screen passes?! He is a gimmick QB that could be successful, he just needs work and time (a Project). Much more work than Winston.

 

[black and gold apex]

Another stupid kid that will be given the bank with his suspect character. The NFL is flawed with their talk of wanting to change the image, this guy will add to shaking of heads by the fans.

 

[insaniti]

Wow. Where do I start.

So Cutler's best year is on par with Winston's worst?! lol. In fact, Cutler only threw for over 3k once in his FOUR years at Vandy

As a redshirt freshman, Winston had:

4057 Yards, 65% comp, 10 P/A, 40 TD's, 10 Ints.

Those numbers absolutely blow Cutler's best year out of the water. Not even a damn comparison. I agree the INT's were up significantly the 2nd year and he did force the ball often, but his receiving core was largely comprised of freshman and his coach even mentioned that many of the picks were bad route's by the WR's.

Additionally- are you claiming that he is going pro because he is afraid of a down hill trend?!? Have you not seen what happened to Gurley or Lattimore?! Why in the hell would he risk injury when he is most likely going in the top 10? You make a very tenuous argument here.

I get it- you like Marcus. He's a great guy. But how can you claim that he is good at 'reading' a defense? In what world are we praising QB's for throwing screen passes?! He is a gimmick QB that could be successful, he just needs work and time (a Project). Much more work than Winston.

Take Winstons first year all you want, there was film on him in his second year, and wr's running the wrong route has nothing to do with his bad decision making. If he's anything as a prospect, it's Byron Leftwich. A downward trend costs people money when it comes to draft position, so yes I think that has a lot to do with it.

Once again on the Cutler front, Cutler NEVER had the talent Winston had at FSU, EVER. He went to freaking Vanderbilt. I'm not praising Cutler, I'm bringing Winston back down to earth.

Apparently you don't watch a lot of Oregon games. They throw screen passes, they also throw deep, and quite often. For someone who only throws screen passes, his YPA are pretty high (10.10 for the season). Their screen games allow them to suck the defenses in and hit them over the top. Mariota has a very effective pump fake, much like Ben's that really draws reactions from defenders.

 

[fogdoctor]

I don't doubt Winston's physical skills but does he has the mental toughness to be an NFL QB? IMO he is JaMarcus Russell and will not have the ability to get through all the INTs, dumb plays, and losing he is going to do when he goes high in the draft and starts right away.

Mariota, on the other hand, is much more difficult to project. He will measure out at 6'4", 225-230lbs, run a 4.5, throw darts, etc. If he could sit a year or two he would be a good NFL QB. But he will go high, have to play right away, in an offense he not suited to run, and then suck. Unless he goes to a team that runs the Kelly option, he is not an NFL QB.

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

I would draft him just to have some entertainment in the locker room....

 

[Steelr4evr]

.....he'd look great in Browns uniform.

 

[Troglodyte]

Well you go on believing that guys who score extremely high on the Wonderlic aren't viewed in a suspicious or negative manner by coaches/GMs/scouts and I'll go on believing that it can and does happen; often.

So forget the arrest for shoplifting, accusation of sexual assault, and standing on a table screaming obscenities, it a high Wonderlic that could raise suspicion or negativity regarding Winston.

I find that absurd.

 

[Omar10213245]

I don't doubt Winston's physical skills but does he has the mental toughness to be an NFL QB? IMO he is JaMarcus Russell and will not have the ability to get through all the INTs, dumb plays, and losing he is going to do when he goes high in the draft and starts right away.

Mariota, on the other hand, is much more difficult to project. He will measure out at 6'4", 225-230lbs, run a 4.5, throw darts, etc. If he could sit a year or two he would be a good NFL QB. But he will go high, have to play right away, in an offense he not suited to run, and then suck. Unless he goes to a team that runs the Kelly option, he is not an NFL QB.

Mariota's gonna suck dick as a pro starter, I've seen his type too many times. Would MUCH rather have Winston, who will excel on the field

 

[SteelBuckeye]

So forget the arrest for shoplifting, accusation of sexual assault, and standing on a table screaming obscenities, it a high Wonderlic that could raise suspicion or negativity regarding Winston.

I find that absurd.

Changing the parameters of your own argument.It's as disingenuous as cherry picking a portion of a statement and leaving out the majority. Anyway, it wasn't me who brought up the Wonderlic. And it wasn't me who said he would score low and that would drop his draft status.

Of course there are character concerns. And of course a whole lot will be made of them. In the end, it won't matter. They'll interview him at the combine and bring him in for meetings. He'll have been coached to say the right things by the p.r. firm his agent has undoubtedly already hired. And, he'll still go in the top 10 of the draft (possibly top FIVE). As shown by players like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell, it only takes one team to fall in love with a guy. A guy like Winston who has the physical talent, has experience in a pro-style offense (under center) and who has played at a high level in a power five conference ... some team will fall in love with him. He's not Johnny Manziel who was/is short, with a suspect arm, and enjoyed is college success operating from a spread that kept him in the shotgun.

You may not like it. You may not agree with it. But Winston will be a high first round draft pick. Even if, as you suspect, his Wonderlic is low and even with his character concerns. Just be glad that the Steelers won't be the team drafting him if it truly bothers you so much.

 

[Troglodyte]

Changing the parameters of your own argument.It's as disingenuous as cherry picking a portion of a statement and leaving out the majority.

You may not like it. You may not agree with it. But Winston will be a high first round draft pick. Even if, as you suspect, his Wonderlic is low and even with his character concerns. Just be glad that the Steelers won't be the team drafting him if it truly bothers you so much.

I'm addressing what I find absurd: your contention that scoring high on the Wonderlic could be viewed as suspicious or negative.

A high Wonderlic would help Winston, it wouldn't be yet another red flag. You're saying it could be and often is.

They coach these players on how to answer questions, I don't believe for a second they would advise them to not score too high on the Wonderlic. You're saying they should.

 

[jitter77]

Back when marino and bradshaw played football was different. Today scouts / coaches have so many more tools and technology available. I think the game is much more cerebral than it was back then. If you can't study film and learn / memorize concepts well as a Qb you will fail. You need to be able to retain and process info quickly. If you are not somewhat intelligent i think this would be much more difficult.
Some guys do not test well or apply themselves in school. My one friend carried a C average in highschool, went to IUP partyed too much, and flunked out. He transferred to Saint Vincent ended up getting a masters degree in special ed teaching. Winston may be a genius......but i highly doubt it

 

[slashsteel]

Our All Pro draft picks and division championship disagree with your assessment also

our lack of playoff wins disagree with your disagree