JPJ Contract

[steelhurt]

So where do you slot Benton for an extension? We just handed Herbig, who actually DID perform when he got on the field big money...JPJ is going to get paid, either this year or next, and if you "want to see more" from JPJ after a STELLAR season in a **** system (Zero TD's allowed, only 29 receptions allowed, 1 INT, 11 PD, and only 56 penalty yards. Which are top of the league numbers), what do we need to see from Benton? I just don't see it. One is a player that can literally make or break the secondary, something we've lacked for YEARS! The other is a run of the mill average DL...

Id like to see Porter have another good season before I commit the money he wants.
He needs to show me a couple things…
Keep improving on lowering the penalties and improve on his lack of ints.
Benton I read they are planning on moving him around this year. Thats a smart strategy rather than strictly play him at NT like the genius former coach did.
Benton is a young and talented DL. Benton along with Harmon, and Black are the future not Cam and the others.
I’d like to see them trade Highsmith like I’ve been wanting for months now. Use that money to sign the younger guys like Benton and possibly Porter if not this year but next.
The really horrible contract is Watt’s deal but no one will take that contract on making him pretty much untradeable at this point. If they could possibly unload Watt, I’d prefer that and keep the younger Highsmith but don’t think they can.

 

[SteelerFan448]

While there is still a few weeks before camp, and little doubt that Herbig earned his extension, it is also true that CB, or lockdown CB as JPJ performed as last season, is a far greater need for the Steelers than Edge.

The Steelers defense kinda sucks when the edge rushers aren't doing their job, by far more important for this defense.

 

[Confluence]

The Steelers defense kinda sucks when the edge rushers aren't doing their job, by far more important for this defense.

the former D, free from innovation and scheme, other than two Edge rushers trying to get either the QB or the RB

 

[SteelerFan448]

Black needs to be the NT, and yes Harmon. And they have a slew of other young DL that are just as average as Benton. They sign them every year to be back up's. I just don't see anything that Benton brings that screams LOCK HIM UP!

If Benton is several steps above their 5-8 DL and solidified as at worst an average NFL DL as opposed to being a borderline practice squad player. Black just wasn't very good last year and has a ways to go yet. Joseph-Day is probably going to get most of the NT snaps this season.

 

[bigben]

You give JPJ $30 million plus, and he very easily could digress a bit. It would be a huge f-up by the team. Paying him that kind of money means he still has to improve a good bit, as he currently is not a $30 million-plus player. Will he continue to improve? Do they take that gamble?

Personally, I think he has improved some and is in the good to very good area. He is not great. He is not a top 5 player and possibly not even top 10 and that's the gamble if you pay him $30 million.

100% spot on. Joey made big improvements to his game last year.
Looking at his career as a whole he is nowhere near the top guys in the league. I could see the Steelers wanting him to prove last year wasn't a fluke before they pay him. If he continues to show improvements this year he deserves to be paid accordingly. He just hasn't done it long enough or consistently enough to be paid like he wants to be paid.
I get it though from his perspective they just made Herbig, a backup, the highest paid backup in history. Joey has earned it more than Nick.

 

[Confluence]

100% spot on. Joey made big improvements to his game last year.
Looking at his career as a whole he is nowhere near the top guys in the league. I could see the Steelers wanting him to prove last year wasn't a fluke before they pay him. If he continues to show improvements this year he deserves to be paid accordingly. He just hasn't done it long enough or consistently enough to be paid like he wants to be paid.
I get it though from his perspective they just made Herbig, a backup, the highest paid backup in history. Joey has earned it more than Nick.

if the Steelers paid JPJ $29M for 4 years and Herbig $5M less per year, no one here would argue. Its not Lil Peezy's fault the team overpaid Herbig.

The Steelers need a shutdown CB, the first since a couple years before Haden retired, far more than another edge.

 

[SteelerFan448]

100% spot on. Joey made big improvements to his game last year.
Looking at his career as a whole he is nowhere near the top guys in the league. I could see the Steelers wanting him to prove last year wasn't a fluke before they pay him. If he continues to show improvements this year he deserves to be paid accordingly. He just hasn't done it long enough or consistently enough to be paid like he wants to be paid.
I get it though from his perspective they just made Herbig, a backup, the highest paid backup in history. Joey has earned it more than Nick.

I see a lot comparing Porter's potential deal with what Herbig got. I don't think they have anything to do with each other. Porter was always going to get paid relative to the other CBs in the league, not relative to his teammates who play a completely different position.

 

[bigben]

if the Steelers paid JPJ $29M for 4 years and Herbig $5M less per year, no one here would argue. Its not Lil Peezy's fault the team overpaid Herbig.

The Steelers need a shutdown CB, the first since a couple years before Haden retired, far more than another edge.

Herbig aside, Any CB getting near 30 million per year is widely ranked top 1-3 in the league consistently.
Joey hasn't done enough to be paid 29/yr based off 1 good season and 2 mediocre seasons in which he earned a penalty machine reputation.
If he improves his game again this year, then pay him.

 

[bigben]

I see a lot comparing Porter's potential deal with what Herbig got. I don't think they have anything to do with each other. Porter was always going to get paid relative to the other CBs in the league, not relative to his teammates who play a completely different position.

I only brought up Herbig because he was grossly overpaid for the numbers he's produced as a backup.
I could have used Metcalf as another example of poor return per dollar. He may be the most overpaid guy in the league versus his peers.
Throw in 20 Million for Pittman, Watt, Heyward, etc, adds up fast. All on older players on the back 9 of their career.

A young O-line, cheap Veteran QB and two bargain basement RB's have them drunkenly overspending on players old and young.
It's gonna be a huge mess when it comes time to pay guys at these other crucial positions.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I only brought up Herbig because he was grossly overpaid for the numbers he's produced as a backup.
I could have used Metcalf as another example of poor return per dollar. He may be the most overpaid guy in the league versus his peers.
Throw in 20 Million for Pittman, Watt, Heyward, etc, adds up fast. All on older players on the back 9 of their career.

A young O-line, cheap Veteran QB and two bargain basement RB's have them drunkenly overspending on players old and young.
It's gonna be a huge mess when it comes time to pay guys at these other crucial positions.

I can see that to an extent. However, with young, ascending players, you have to consider their growth as well as project future production. Herbig has improved every year and is trending toward developing into at least a Montez Sweat-type player--their contracts are right on par. He's the 16th-highest paid edge rusher and if he is a 7-10 sack guy, the contract will look good now and terrific by the end of the deal. Next year, the top pass rushers will be making $20 million more than Herbig and mid-tier pass rushers are going to be signing much better contracts in the near future.

The Steelers will have to do the same with Porter. He an ascending player who put up terrific production last year with his main knock being the lack of INTs. His penalties are overstated, especially since he compares very well with the top cornerbacks in the league.

I'll totally buy in with Watt--easily the worst contract on the team. DK's contract is bad given his age and historical production relative to his contract status. If Pitman and Heyward match their recent production, their contracts aren't bad. Also, the Steelers don't exactly have cap issues right now--they have a QB issue and until that gets resolved, not much else will matter.

 

[diver]

I only brought up Herbig because he was grossly overpaid for the numbers he's produced as a backup.
I could have used Metcalf as another example of poor return per dollar. He may be the most overpaid guy in the league versus his peers.
Throw in 20 Million for Pittman, Watt, Heyward, etc, adds up fast. All on older players on the back 9 of their career.

A young O-line, cheap Veteran QB and two bargain basement RB's have them drunkenly overspending on players old and young.
It's gonna be a huge mess when it comes time to pay guys at these other crucial positions.

Maybe. Qb is always the biggest salary, and they have a number of years before they have to pay huge dollars if one of these guys now, or a rookie next year that might hit. They have time to figure it out.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

I only brought up Herbig because he was grossly overpaid for the numbers he's produced as a backup.
I could have used Metcalf as another example of poor return per dollar. He may be the most overpaid guy in the league versus his peers.
Throw in 20 Million for Pittman, Watt, Heyward, etc, adds up fast. All on older players on the back 9 of their career.

A young O-line, cheap Veteran QB and two bargain basement RB's have them drunkenly overspending on players old and young.
It's gonna be a huge mess when it comes time to pay guys at these other crucial positions.

Absolutely

The other reason, besides no franchise QB here, for the reckless spending on Watt/Herbig etc. is unlike the 2010’s and earlier many of the high draft picks of the team don’t get 2nd contracts because they’re simply not good enough.

I remember when we were cap strapped every year, not because it was mismanaged but because the guys we drafted were panning out and we were always spending on those guys and sometimes having to let them go to another team for a lucrative deal bc we didn’t have the space. When is the last time we had a gut wrenching high quality player leave here?

Porter is the first high draft pick in a while to deserve a significant 2nd contract.

He’s not a top 10 CB yet tho IMO

 

[stillwright]

Absolutely

The other reason, besides no franchise QB here, for the reckless spending on Watt/Herbig etc. is unlike the 2010’s and earlier many of the high draft picks of the team don’t get 2nd contracts because they’re simply not good enough.

I remember when we were cap strapped every year, not because it was mismanaged but because the guys we drafted were panning out and we were always spending on those guys and sometimes having to let them go to another team for a lucrative deal bc we didn’t have the space. When is the last time we had a gut wrenching high quality player leave here?

Porter is the first high draft pick in a while to deserve a significant 2nd contract.

He’s not a top 10 CB yet tho IMO

Name the 10 ... 10 plus in front of him.

 

[stillwright]

I only brought up Herbig because he was grossly overpaid for the numbers he's produced as a backup.
I could have used Metcalf as another example of poor return per dollar. He may be the most overpaid guy in the league versus his peers.
Throw in 20 Million for Pittman, Watt, Heyward, etc, adds up fast. All on older players on the back 9 of their career.

A young O-line, cheap Veteran QB and two bargain basement RB's have them drunkenly overspending on players old and young.
It's gonna be a huge mess when it comes time to pay guys at these other crucial positions.

Over paying on the Vets bring in Tomlinship's.......

 

[Polambertberger]

He was raised here and his father played here and he's the best drafted cb talent since who, Woodson? I don't see them letting him go past this year, because then their leverage decreases. Yes Herbig and DK play different positions but a backup got 24 frigging mil and DK got what 30 and he's not even in the top 10 at his position, maybe not even top 15. I think he's gonna feel.slighted if he doesn't come close to 30 a year. I think he gets 28 to 29 a year but will be asking for 30 plus. That's my take

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

Name the 10 ... 10 plus in front of him.

As said earlier I’m all for him being resigned as a CB1 on that money but being top 10 in the league is different than that, and different money obviously.

Porter isn’t top 10 in passes defended or interceptions.

Surtain, Stingley, Witherspoon, McDuffie, Mitchell, Gardner, DeJean are all better IMO

To me a top 10 defensive player changes the game on a regular basis and teams half to change their gameplan because of him. Such as Watt, Big Snack, and Cam in their prime….how many times last year did JPJ do that?

You can argue teams avoided him, but I think a top 10 player does more than that. JPJ has 3 career nfl interceptions….

 

[SteelerFan448]

Porter isn’t top 10 in passes defended or interceptions.

Surtain, Stingley, Witherspoon, McDuffie, Mitchell, Gardner, DeJean are all better IMO


You can argue teams avoided him, but I think a top 10 player does more than that. JPJ has 3 career nfl interceptions….

(Regular season only)
Witherspoon has 2 INTs, McDuffie has 3 INTs, Mitchell has 0 INTs, Gardner has 3 INTs, DeJean has 2 INTs, Gonzalez has 3 INTs

2025 Passes Defended
9th Mitchell 17
10th DeJean 16
11th Stingley 15
12th Porter 14
18th Surtain 12
42nd Gonzalez 12
56th Gardner 9
86th Witherspoon, McDuffie 7

McDuffie $31 million per year
Gardner $30.1 million per year
Stingley $30 million per year

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

(Regular season only)
Witherspoon has 2 INTs, McDuffie has 3 INTs, Mitchell has 0 INTs, Gardner has 3 INTs, DeJean has 2 INTs, Gonzalez has 3 INTs

McDuffie $31 million per year
Gardner $30.1 million per year
Stingley $30 million per year

Do you think Porter is as good as McDuffie, Gardner, or Stingley?

Porter has averaged 1 INT a year for his career.

How many times did you say last year: wow, JPJ changed that game for us?

I’m not trying to bash him, I want him signed long term, but what about him deserves elite/top 10 money?

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Do you think Porter is as good as McDuffie, Gardner, or Stingley?

Porter has averaged 1 INT a year for his career.

How many times did you say last year: wow, JPJ changed that game for us?

I’m not trying to bash him, I want him signed long term, but what about him deserves elite/top 10 money?

the lack of a better one on our team.

OR

Steelers lack of ability to draft one better.

 

[Avoid_Lloyd]

the lack of a better one on our team.

OR

Steelers lack of ability to draft one better.

Thats a pretty bad reason to throw elite money at him, hopefully the settle around 20 million and cooler heads prevail

 

[Drink IRON City]

the lack of a better one on our team.

OR

Steelers lack of ability to draft one better.

Keep in mind that the new coaching staff hasn’t been here long enough for us to know what their drafting strengths are or are not.

Secondly, I think JPJ’s dad’s friendship with the Tomlin had as much to do with his being drafted as anything skilled by Tomlin.

I know and am glad we got the JPJ regardless of credit to whom.

We need to figure out how to keep him and I feel that “Franchise-tag” should only be used as a last resort.





Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

As said earlier I’m all for him being resigned as a CB1 on that money but being top 10 in the league is different than that, and different money obviously.

Porter isn’t top 10 in passes defended or interceptions.

Surtain, Stingley, Witherspoon, McDuffie, Mitchell, Gardner, DeJean are all better IMO

To me a top 10 defensive player changes the game on a regular basis and teams half to change their gameplan because of him. Such as Watt, Big Snack, and Cam in their prime….how many times last year did JPJ do that?

You can argue teams avoided him, but I think a top 10 player does more than that. JPJ has 3 career nfl interceptions….

Trent has 3 career int's in four seasons, Witherspoon.....2, Mitchell..... 4, Gardner .....3,DeJean....2. Surtain does have 12, but apparently your criteria on the intception front isn't that good. As far as passes defended. Porter is right there with them also. Go figure.

 

[Polambertberger]

OK so let's get down to brass tacks
He's pretty darn good. Part of the reason he doesn't get interceptions I believe (to his credit reasons) is for 2 reasons. One, he's the 9th targeted CB in the NFL at 11.9%. Surtain is least targeted at 10.8%. The avg target rate is a little under 15%. Two (and this plays off of being targeted less) Joey does man to man on avg around 40% of the time which is right up there with the top lock.down corners of the NFL. The avg man to man played in the NFL is 22.5% so Joey is doing man at almost 2x the rate the NFL does. When you stick to.your guy, the QB is gonna throw it less your way. And zone creates more turnovers. He's also covering the number one most of the game and I would imagine that the elite receivers are less likely to misplay the ball or run a wrong route than the avg receiver. Lastly only 2 CBs in the NFL allowed 0 TDs last year and Joey was one of them. Incidentally, Dean was one of 3 to only allow 1 including Mitchell and Surtain (to think our 1 and 2 only gave up.1 TD all of last year is exciting). How about yards allowed per coverage snap......guess who was number 2 in the NFL? Thats right Joey Baby at .6 yards allowed. Thats tied with Surtain..Lets look at CB impact ratings which takes into account YAC, completions allowed, missed tackles, qb rating allowed, incompleteness forced, run support etc......guess who was number 2 in the NFL? That's right Joey Baby. The more I think about it the more he is a shut down corner right now and here's the kicker..........he's been improving every year which means he could be scary going forward if he continues his trajectory. Did they not pay Herbig on his trajectory? Clearly they did not pay him on what he's accomplished. The dude should get paid amomg the top 5 or around there not to mention the fact that he's cut down on his penalties big time and we've been paying him 2nd round draft slot money for a few years and clearly he's been playing like a first round pick as of late. Make no mistake, if they were to redraft that year Porter would have been picked very high. I rest my case........29 mil a year