Kenny

[BLITZ]

Anyone who watched the victory over the Ravens would be a fool to think that game was anything but a fluke. I hate the Ravens as much as anyone but they gift wrapped us that game with all the dropped passes.
Also
I don't think this team would have a single victory without TJ Watt. He has everything to do with this team winning, Kenny hasn't won us ****, Its not kenny putting the team on his back, its TJ. Its been TJ for years now.
If this much isn't obvious you are delusional
put Mitch in I think you get more or less the same results as Pickett.

Devils advocate would say if they were not paying TJ 30M a year, then they could afford a better oline. He is a huge asset to this team and I would not change a thing, but he takes up a **** ton of cap space so he should be a major difference maker

 

[wig]

It's completely unfair and unrealistic to think KP or any QB we might have drafted would be in the same conversation as Big Ben. BB is the best Steelers QB ever (yes, I also watched TB play) and a 1st ballot HOFer. Ben should currently be considered in the top 10 or, at worst, top 15 QB's to have ever played the game.

Statistically, he is.
Eye-test wise... He is.

If the cheats hadn't... Well cheated for 10+ years, he would have likely dominated the league during his career, and that's WITH a coach who can't plan his way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[wig]

Brady
Marino
Favre
Manning
Brees
Then we get into the Roethlisberger conversation imp. Top 5 no. Top 10 yes.

Brady is disqualified in my opinion due to the cheating.

Favre was good but not better than Ben.

Marino was exceptional, will give you that. Probably the best pure passer I've ever seen.

Manning was the most technically perfect QB I've ever seen.

Brees was also exceptional.

Although I hated him, Elway was one of the biggest "heart" guys I've ever seen play.

 

[wig]

Let me try! LOL

I'd find it difficult to boot someone off and stick Ben amongst the top 5 in this guys list.
Ben aint even in the top 10 according to this guy.

I could put him in the top 10 though.
I'd boot Moon off.

Ben does make honorable mention tho.

This guy ****** up big time. Bradshaw didn't even make honorable mention.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/ranking-top-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/

Moon was amazing, and seriously under-rated.

 

[Hypocycloids]

Moon was amazing, and seriously under-rated.

Well then Ben can't be top 10.

 

[wig]

Manning won 2 SB's with 2 different teams, if I'm not mistaken in commanding fashion. Ben on the other hand was sub-par vs. Seattle.
Against GB I blame mostly Mendenhall and Ben to a smaller extent.

Ben never choked in the playoffs?
Did we beat Mannings Colts in the playoffs or was it simply a case of Manning choking?

Thank God for Ben in that game... phew!!! The fumble. The Bus must be still thanking him. I remember the story about Ben promising The Bus a Super Bowl if he stuck around one more year. That may have gone through Ben's mind causing his adrenalin to shoot up enabling him to trip up that DB. LOL

Manning was great during all but the last year or two of his career, but his SB win in Denver was WAY less Manning and WAY more Miller.

Similarly, Ben had 1 decent year after his major arm injury and after that, he was good, but not nearly the same.

Fact is, some of his best work was under Arians & the Todd.

Unfortunately, one was going to get him killed and he hated the other.

 

[wig]

Well then Ben can't be top 10.

Already took 2 other guys off the list.

I'm not going to try to make up some ******* list of best-evers, because as mentioned earlier, eras have changed and frankly, my serious football viewing began in the O'Donnell years, so there's a metric ****-ton of football I can't personally compare.

But anyone who can't recognize that Ben Roethlisberger was a generational talent, worthy of recognition among the best ever to play the position, regardless of a few "spots on the list" is either subjective, or just wrong.

In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[wig]

Manning was gifted his second ring in Denver, he was shot at that point.
Manning was one of the best regular season QB's ever, he was a choke artist in the playoffs though. Ben had his number, Brady really had his number.
Mendenhall lost us that game 100%
Ben was always clutch in the big games, putting up 40+ against Bortles, you can blame the Defense for that one

Mendenhall lost us that game 100%

In fairness, Mendenhall got blown up due to a completely whiff Johnson whiff on that play. I hated that fumble as much as anyone, but I truly believe that if Whiff blocks ONE of those guys coming through untouched or if Mendenhall somehow holds on to the ball, AND if the Steelers had managed to score on that drive and take the lead that they would have broken the Packer's spirit and won the game.

But... That's why it's the greatest game on Earth.

 

[Hypocycloids]

Already took 2 other guys off the list.

I'm not going to try to make up some ******* list of best-evers, because as mentioned earlier, eras have changed and frankly, my serious football viewing began in the O'Donnell years, so there's a metric ****-ton of football I can't personally compare.

But anyone who can't recognize that Ben Roethlisberger was a generational talent, worthy of recognition among the best ever to play the position, regardless of a few "spots on the list" is either subjective, or just wrong.

In my humble opinion, of course.

I anticipated you would. lol
I'm sure everyone recognizes Ben being a generational talent worthy of recognition. Regardless of what number is next to him, ranking hm among the best is recognition. Recognition has never been the issue.
Earlier in the thread I posted a bunch of links from various sites that ranked the greatest QB's of all time.
Ben couldn't break the top 10 in any of them. I don't think anyone on the planet would rank him among the 10 greatest of all time.

Now if we want to rank him among the best in his era, that is a different story.

Going back to that top 10 GOAT list I posted, I'd boot Joe Montana, Young, Marino, and Staubach off.
Plenty of room for Ben to be among the top 5 or 10 best to play!... in his era.

In Pittsburgh's hearts (at least in my heart) Ben is #1. He gave the city 2 more Super Bowls after having to put up with 20yrs of subpar QB play.

 

[slashsteel]

I anticipated you would. lol
I'm sure everyone recognizes Ben being a generational talent worthy of recognition. Regardless of what number is next to him, ranking hm among the best is recognition. Recognition has never been the issue.
Earlier in the thread I posted a bunch of links from various sites that ranked the greatest QB's of all time.
Ben couldn't break the top 10 in any of them. I don't think anyone on the planet would rank him among the 10 greatest of all time.

Now if we want to rank him among the best in his era, that is a different story.

Going back to that top 10 GOAT list I posted, I'd boot Joe Montana, Young, Marino, and Staubach off.
Plenty of room for Ben to be among the top 5 or 10 best to play!... in his era.

In Pittsburgh's hearts (at least in my heart) Ben is #1. He gave the city 2 more Super Bowls after having to put up with 20yrs of subpar QB play.

To be fair none of those lists are any better than our personal opinion. I always personally think highly of come from behind victories and SB victories/appearances. Ben ranks high in both categories and was held back from greater stats due to ongoing cheating.

Most of those so called experts are judging BigBen in part due to his off the field incidents.Opinion but mine...

For me he should be entrenched in the top 5.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Brady is disqualified in my opinion due to the cheating.

Favre was good but not better than Ben.

Marino was exceptional, will give you that. Probably the best pure passer I've ever seen.

Manning was the most technically perfect QB I've ever seen.

Brees was also exceptional.

Although I hated him, Elway was one of the biggest "heart" guys I've ever seen play.

SORRY, Ben had bigger heart than Elway. Ben’s come from behind wins shows that and Elway got a lot of help from the media.


Salute the nation

 

[bigben]

The Steelers records with and without Watt speaks for themselves, but I don't think Trubisky brings the Steelers back in 4th quarter against the Rams or Ravens. I could be wrong, though.

How often did Ben carry the team on his back early in his career? He often won the same way you criticize Kenny for now.

Not saying Kenny will ever be close to the player Ben was as he had much higher passer rating early on than Kenny, but Ben was in a much better offense early in his career and wasn't asked to throw nearly as much as Kenny is.

Ben lost 3 games in his first 2 seasons as the starter, not even the same universe.
I think the team is just as good maybe better with Mitch, maybe not, but the fact that its close tells you what you need to know about Kenny.

 

[bigben]

Mendenhall lost us that game 100%

In fairness, Mendenhall got blown up due to a completely whiff Johnson whiff on that play. I hated that fumble as much as anyone, but I truly believe that if Whiff blocks ONE of those guys coming through untouched or if Mendenhall somehow holds on to the ball, AND if the Steelers had managed to score on that drive and take the lead that they would have broken the Packer's spirit and won the game.

But... That's why it's the greatest game on Earth.

I agree but you can't cough it up there no matter what.

 

[slashsteel]

Ben lost 3 games in his first 2 seasons as the starter, not even the same universe.
I think the team is just as good maybe better with Mitch, maybe not, but the fact that its close tells you what you need to know about Kenny.

I agree with some of what you say but as far as a close performance we have to pump the breaks. Albeit in limited play Mitch is at 60 percent completion for a 3.6 average. Kenny is at 60.9 with a 6.6 average. Almost double.

I think Kenny has clearly separated himself from Mitch and that red nosed third stringer.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Brady is disqualified in my opinion due to the cheating.

Favre was good but not better than Ben.

Marino was exceptional, will give you that. Probably the best pure passer I've ever seen.

Manning was the most technically perfect QB I've ever seen.

Brees was also exceptional.

Although I hated him, Elway was one of the biggest "heart" guys I've ever seen play.

Brady went down to TB and immediately won another ring with those guys, no cheating. You can't completely disqualify Brady for all his rings with "only cheating." Hoodie ain't doing nothing sans Brady now. And if we are gonna include non-ring winning QBs then about Fouts? He was amazing. How about Moon even with all those wasted years playing in Canada? I didn't hate Elway, how could I? He drove the spike right through Cleveland's heart with "the drive." You can't hate him after doing that.

 

[madinsomniac]

Brady went down to TB and immediately won another ring with those guys, no cheating. You can't completely disqualify Brady for all his rings with "only cheating." Hoodie ain't doing nothing sans Brady now. And if we are gonna include non-ring winning QBs then about Fouts? He was amazing. How about Moon even with all those wasted years playing in Canada? I didn't hate Elway, how could I? He drove the spike right through Cleveland's heart with "the drive." You can't hate him after doing that.

Brady, after he was 35, was a designer steroid monster. He remains the only dude to ever grow significant arm strength during his mid 30’s… and attributes it to diet… which is not how things work in the real world…

 

[BLITZ]

Lot of great QBs that you can argue are in the top 10 of all time.

I can 100% say that Ben fit the Steelers more so than any other QB. He was perfect for the Steel City. Hard nosed, tough to bring down, best pump fake in the history of football. came up with miricle plays when things broke down.

we were blessed to have him for as long as we did. there will never be another like him.

 

[slashsteel]

Brady went down to TB and immediately won another ring with those guys, no cheating. You can't completely disqualify Brady for all his rings with "only cheating." Hoodie ain't doing nothing sans Brady now. And if we are gonna include non-ring winning QBs then about Fouts? He was amazing. How about Moon even with all those wasted years playing in Canada? I didn't hate Elway, how could I? He drove the spike right through Cleveland's heart with "the drive." You can't hate him after doing that.

No we can't discount all of them. But without knowing the level of cheating with evidence destroyed we can presume that a significant amount of those rings didn't come honestly. Some sports would ban their *** and throw away the key. In the NFL you get raises.

 

[slashsteel]

Brady, after he was 35, was a designer steroid monster. He remains the only dude to ever grow significant arm strength during his mid 30’s… and attributes it to diet… which is not how things work in the real world…

Yep I almost forgot about that.

 

[Hypocycloids]

To be fair none of those lists are any better than our personal opinion. I always personally think highly of come from behind victories and SB victories/appearances. Ben ranks high in both categories and was held back from greater stats due to ongoing cheating.

Most of those so called experts are judging BigBen in part due to his off the field incidents.Opinion but mine...

For me he should be entrenched in the top 5.

Opinions absolutely. Football is not an exact science, therefore every QB ranking that exists is based on opinions. There are so many factors involved that can influence or sway one's conclusion.
The sticking point for me is that there is apparently no one outside of Pittsburgh who is of the opinion that Ben belongs in the top 5.

In turn, the consensus among all these QB ranking folks is that Brady is #1. If you don't agree then most likely you're from Pittsburgh.

But hey, we can agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that!

Here is something pretty cool.
Pro Football Reference lists, not ranks the 25 greatest QB's of all time.

In alphabetical order.

PFR is strictly a stats/records site.

If they ranked 1-25 then it would be of someone's opinion, and they're not into that.

The only place you'll find Bradshaw ahead of Brady!

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/pfr-blog/2023/02/top-25-quarterbacks-of-all-time/

 

[wig]

Brady went down to TB and immediately won another ring with those guys, no cheating. You can't completely disqualify Brady for all his rings with "only cheating." Hoodie ain't doing nothing sans Brady now. And if we are gonna include non-ring winning QBs then about Fouts? He was amazing. How about Moon even with all those wasted years playing in Canada? I didn't hate Elway, how could I? He drove the spike right through Cleveland's heart with "the drive." You can't hate him after doing that.

With 2 of the best receivers in the entire league forcing defenses to pick their poison.

He had a stacked frickin' team, and a brilliant OC in Arians. But I will begrudgingly admit he played as well as a 16 or 17 year vet could.

 

[wig]

I didn't say how Elway had MORE heart than Ben. I just said "I respect Elway's heart."