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Kinda hard to picture much better linebackers

Troglodyte said:
I really hope Holcomb is able to return to form. I was pleasantly surprised at how good he was.
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Imagine Holcomb returning to form, the addition of Queen and then sprinkle in rookie Wilson....our ILB unit could go from a weakness to a power center. Now if we just could upgrade the DL somehow, some way.
 
steelhurt said:
The best coordinators do matter.
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Not when your HC constantly interferes with a "pee-your-pants" mentality. Tomlin thinks you can win a Super Bowl playing on his 12-10 manner of trying to win: doomed failure.
 
BLITZ said:
Those were great days to be a Steeler fan
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Back in the days when the team played with balls: Woodson, Lake, Lloyd, Greene, Kirkland, Brown, Seals, Steed, Perry. Opponents knew they had to play a football game going up against that force.
 
Stewey said:
If any one city should have a sports bar named The Linebacker it should be absolutely, positively be Pittsburgh dammit!!!
Some aspiring businessmen should take note, because others have missed the boat!

Linebacker.jpg
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At the time, I thought “Woodson’s” was pretty good name……………..


Salute the nation
 
Oh, and don’t forget Jerome’s establishment………….


Salute the nation
 
SteelerFan448 said:
It feels like the entire Steelers defense does this to generate pressure and as a result the run defense suffers. To me it feels more of a scheme/philosophy as the defense will risk making a mistake on a run play for the reward of getting a sack or a TFL.
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Agree, if he is crashing someone else should be containing there
 
Litos said:
Agree, if he is crashing someone else should be containing there
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That was one of the things the DL used to do so well, basically so the playmakers could make plays. Now the Steelers want their DL generating pressure as well, which is why we haven't seen a true NT since Tomlin has been here. In fact, I wouldn't say any of their DL are run stopping specialists and we often see the backups have some element of a pass rush as a priority over the run stoppers.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
That was one of the things the DL used to do so well, basically so the playmakers could make plays. Now the Steelers want their DL generating pressure as well, which is why we haven't seen a true NT since Tomlin has been here. In fact, I wouldn't say any of their DL are run stopping specialists and we often see the backups have some element of a pass rush as a priority over the run stoppers.
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I've been saying it for years: Tomlin doesn't understand and/or appreciate the true spirit of a 3-4 D. He totally misses the true NT concept.
 
Greg Lloyd said:
I've been saying it for years: Tomlin doesn't understand and/or appreciate the true spirit of a 3-4 D. He totally misses the true NT concept.
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Coach Tomlin started his "tweek" even while the great Dick L. was here. It seemed as though Dick leaving was well because of the Tomlin interjecting to much of the Tomlin "play not to lose" defense.

Just open thinking aloud, If Dick L. was to have predicted where this "D" was headed, he would have predicted it to be where it is now. Thus he chose to leave.

The Tide has turned in the Steelers front office. You can see it in the approach currently taken by the GMs.

You can also see the change from the ownership as well in their vocal input, but more importantly in signing off on the visual changes being made.

Coach Tomlin no longer runs the show, lesser power, and that is on public display.


Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
Coach Tomlin started his "tweek" even while the great Dick L. was here. It seemed as though Dick leaving was well because of the Tomlin interjecting to much of the Tomlin "play not to lose" defense.

Just open thinking aloud, If Dick L. was to have predicted where this "D" was headed, he would have predicted it to be where it is now. Thus he chose to leave.

The Tide has turned in the Steelers front office. You can see it in the approach currently taken by the GMs.

You can also see the change from the ownership as well in their vocal input, but more importantly in signing off on the visual changes being made.

Coach Tomlin no longer runs the show, lesser power, and that is on public display.


Salute the nation
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I tend to agree with the assessment above, and all I can say is "Thank God." I made a post right around the signings of Queen, Wilson and Fields and the subsequent trading of Kenny asking "What has changed Art Rooney's disposition?" Even as recently as a month or two before those transactions, Rooney went on record basically saying things were the same and not changing with his allegiance to Kenny. Art said that he "still believed in Kenny" which was the music of doom for the franchise as far as I was concerned.

But then something changed. And that change also followed into the draft with very unTomlin-like picks: THREE OLmen taken, two in the 1st two rounds? Tomlin had lost power, and it was about freakin' time. Along with the notable FA signings/trades, it also had been revealed that it was Tomlin, all along, who wanted to keep Canada and the entire team was rebelling against the decision. Tomlin stood alone in the moronic stance of defending Canada's position as OC. Oh sure, the team tried to set it up as a Shades' decision, but make no mistake, Rooney had called for Canada's firing, not Tomlin.

Regardless, Tomlin's infantile mental prowess capacities have been demoted, and the team can only improve because of it.
 
Greg Lloyd said:
I tend to agree with the assessment above, and all I can say is "Thank God." I made a post right around the signings of Queen, Wilson and Fields and the subsequent trading of Kenny asking "What has changed Art Rooney's disposition?" Even as recently as a month or two before those transactions, Rooney went on record basically saying things were the same and not changing with his allegiance to Kenny. Art said that he "still believed in Kenny" which was the music of doom for the franchise as far as I was concerned.

But then something changed. And that change also followed into the draft with very unTomlin-like picks: THREE OLmen taken, two in the 1st two rounds? Tomlin had lost power, and it was about freakin' time. Along with the notable FA signings/trades, it also had been revealed that it was Tomlin, all along, who wanted to keep Canada and the entire team was rebelling against the decision. Tomlin stood alone in the moronic stance of defending Canada's position as OC. Oh sure, the team tried to set it up as a Shades' decision, but make no mistake, Rooney had called for Canada's firing, not Tomlin.

Regardless, Tomlin's infantile mental prowess capacities have been demoted, and the team can only improve because of it.
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Blah, blah, blah……..Coach (Jr.) diarrhea of the mouth condition seems to have relapsed. The monotonous droning of how you hate Tomlin carries like the aroma of manure on the pasture. Three OL picked (two back to back 1st/2nd the third in the 4th) are very unTomlin like picks? PIT hasn’t picked OL three times in the first 119 picks in over 30 years. That predates Tomlin, Colbert, and Cowher. But it does reinforce one thing, you are either a moron or just plain ignorant.
 
Drink IRON City said:
Coach Tomlin started his "tweek" even while the great Dick L. was here. It seemed as though Dick leaving was well because of the Tomlin interjecting to much of the Tomlin "play not to lose" defense.

Just open thinking aloud, If Dick L. was to have predicted where this "D" was headed, he would have predicted it to be where it is now. Thus he chose to leave.

The Tide has turned in the Steelers front office. You can see it in the approach currently taken by the GMs.

You can also see the change from the ownership as well in their vocal input, but more importantly in signing off on the visual changes being made.

Coach Tomlin no longer runs the show, lesser power, and that is on public display.


Salute the nation
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Drink, you know yourself that Coach LeBeau couldn’t stand the league’s favoritism towards offenses. I personally went to one of his seminars regarding the change in defenses (when he was coaching for TEN before he retired), he commented then that game being played (then) was set up showcase QBs, WR’s and to an extent TEs. Promoting greater limitations on defenses (under the guise of player safety). This was back in 2016! Who are the faces of the league now? There are no defensive players on par with QBs, WR or TEs now. Hell, they can’t even get the DPOY right because the minutiae of statistics is geared to opinions now.

The only change I’ve seen is Art2 being more louder, and that’s because he may be ready to start bringing his son (Dan) in to start transitioning to taking over day to day ops, just like Mr. Rooney did.

There is absolutely no pressure from any minority owner because they have no power period. Influence? Yes, Thomas Tull is tight with the Rooney’s, and helped with getting Acrisure as a sponsor. John Stallworth, who is a minority owner, and still part of the old guard (Joe Greene, Mel Blount, and until recently Franco) that‘s always present. Those guys are always there to remind the new blood, players and organization members on how Mr. Rooney and Chief expected things to get done. Remember things weren’t always smooth when Mr. Rooney ran things (Chuck being sued by a player, Bam Morris getting caught with all those drugs, Chin and Donohoe going at it).

Omar has been more aggressive because our cap situation has so much more flexibility now. The cap formula was never, I mean NEVER, flexible. Why? Because PIT doesn’t have a $20-25 mil charge being used on a QB anymore. Omar was with Colbert since 2002, and worked the cap and player contracts for Kevin, so he understands better than any other GM how to work the cap finances.
 
Ike Kelly said:
Blah, blah, blah……..Coach (Jr.) diarrhea of the mouth condition seems to have relapsed. The monotonous droning of how you hate Tomlin carries like the aroma of manure on the pasture. Three OL picked (two back to back 1st/2nd the third in the 4th) are very unTomlin like picks? PIT hasn’t picked OL three times in the first 119 picks in over 30 years. That predates Tomlin, Colbert, and Cowher. But it does reinforce one thing, you are either a moron or just plain ignorant.
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"Blah, blah, blah" Tomlin apologist says what? Living in delusions must be fun.
 
Ike Kelly said:
Drink, you know yourself that Coach LeBeau couldn’t stand the league’s favoritism towards offenses. I personally went to one of his seminars regarding the change in defenses (when he was coaching for TEN before he retired), he commented then that game being played (then) was set up showcase QBs, WR’s and to an extent TEs. Promoting greater limitations on defenses (under the guise of player safety). This was back in 2016! Who are the faces of the league now? There are no defensive players on par with QBs, WR or TEs now. Hell, they can’t even get the DPOY right because the minutiae of statistics is geared to opinions now.

The only change I’ve seen is Art2 being more louder, and that’s because he may be ready to start bringing his son (Dan) in to start transitioning to taking over day to day ops, just like Mr. Rooney did.

There is absolutely no pressure from any minority owner because they have no power period. Influence? Yes, Thomas Tull is tight with the Rooney’s, and helped with getting Acrisure as a sponsor. John Stallworth, who is a minority owner, and still part of the old guard (Joe Greene, Mel Blount, and until recently Franco) that‘s always present. Those guys are always there to remind the new blood, players and organization members on how Mr. Rooney and Chief expected things to get done. Remember things weren’t always smooth when Mr. Rooney ran things (Chuck being sued by a player, Bam Morris getting caught with all those drugs, Chin and Donohoe going at it).

Omar has been more aggressive because our cap situation has so much more flexibility now. The cap formula was never, I mean NEVER, flexible. Why? Because PIT doesn’t have a $20-25 mil charge being used on a QB anymore. Omar was with Colbert since 2002, and worked the cap and player contracts for Kevin, so he understands better than any other GM how to work the cap finances.
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Ike, your post(s) are always well thought and rounded out, thank you for all the great ones along the way !!!

The change can be seen and I’m excited for what is happening along the way. I know that the trenches is the meat and potato’s of the team, so addressing them has been long needed. Upgrades are taking place.

Back when Dick L. Was here I shared near the same sentiments as his along the way and how the tide was turning on the game. The game use to be a 3 phase game with all being nearly equal in rules for parity. Today’s game have vastly shifted towards the offense and one could see that coming from a mile away. STs was made near pointless until this new return rule may grant a little breath back into that phase, we will see. The Defense keeps going deeper and deeper in the quick-sand, and as you stated, all in favor of “player safety”.

How much further can the product go before it reaches the tipping point of non-watchable to some of us purists who actually remember the game of football (not gambling or fantasy). Some have reached that point. Myself, due to the love of the game and the exposure of the STEELERS to me in my most influential part of growing up, will be a little longer.

Thanks again Ike


Salute the nation
 
Greg Lloyd said:
"Blah, blah, blah" Tomlin apologist says what? Living in delusions must be fun.
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I’m no apologist, I know he has flaws, but he is considered one of the best coaches in the league. Wins games more than just about anyone not named Andy Reid. Yeah, his playoff record is frustrating, but PIT is along with only four or five other coaches, sans the cheater, that routinely gets to the playoffs. There are maybe two or three other HC’s who just as good as Tomlin, but none of them, including Andy has a better winning percentage. But it takes more than a HC to get to the dance.

And oh, you should know all about living in delusions, your acumen on football knowledge shows it.

Greg Lloyd said:
No one say anything about not advancing past 7th-grade education, please.
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Interesting, I figured you at least made it past middle school. But I’m not surprised, we always knew Coach got his GED in his late twenties. Your grade school prose is characteristically strikingly familiar, so either you are Coach, or have DNA from him. Regardless, you provide much needed comedy to the board with your asinine opinions.
 
Drink IRON City said:
Ike, your post(s) are always well thought and rounded out, thank you for all the great ones along the way !!!

The change can be seen and I’m excited for what is happening along the way. I know that the trenches is the meat and potato’s of the team, so addressing them has been long needed. Upgrades are taking place.

Back when Dick L. Was here I shared near the same sentiments as his along the way and how the tide was turning on the game. The game use to be a 3 phase game with all being nearly equal in rules for parity. Today’s game have vastly shifted towards the offense and one could see that coming from a mile away. STs was made near pointless until this new return rule may grant a little breath back into that phase, we will see. The Defense keeps going deeper and deeper in the quick-sand, and as you stated, all in favor of “player safety”.

How much further can the product go before it reaches the tipping point of non-watchable to some of us purists who actually remember the game of football (not gambling or fantasy). Some have reached that point. Myself, due to the love of the game and the exposure of the STEELERS to me in my most influential part of growing up, will be a little longer.

Thanks again Ike


Salute the nation
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Thanks Drink, I appreciate the kudos. Most of us on here are puritan football fans, and love PIT. But there are others with agendas that has nothing to do with being a fan. You’ve been giving most of us rides in your S-10 since Justin was a young poster on this board, so you’ve seen/heard all the gripes.

I know you of all posters on here knew how Coach LeBeau absolutely detested the rule changes. He was even more disgusted about the favoritism that occurred ON the field towards certain players and teams, by officials. He defended every one of his defensive players when warranted.

Interesting factoid brought from that seminar, another individual asked Coach LB why do not Head Coaches preface during their pregame discussion with officials what to look for with players who get away with all the holding or illegal push offs, etc on both sides of the ball. Shockingly, he said Coaches not only prepare weekly reports to the league office of missed calls by officials with game tape documenting it, but a few hours before the actual game, coaches sit with the Head Official and advise which “player” to keep an eye on because their tendencies (Most of the time it’s OL and defensive players who go for knees or heads). So the officials are made aware. The problem is, the League Office wants points scored, because that’s what fans want. You know that is horseshit, and true fans like tight defensive games just as much as 600 yards of offense games. But the commish wants more fireworks and high scores.

How much farther than the game can go? You are seeing it now. 7x7 football in some High School division Classes, because schools and districts are getting sued from injuries. So the 7x7 way promotes skill positions only football, which means less talent growing for lineman in college and more spread offenses starting early. Why do we keep seeing all this “Play Flag Football“ stuff? Promoting it to kids (although it’s a good idea for girls) and it’s now in the unwatchable ProBowl. But there is a grass roots growing with some former coaches and players to get back to physical fundamental football starting at the college level. The problem is NIL is handicapping it.
 
BLITZ said:
Kirkland very underrated. Huge man who ran fast
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100% agree, until he became a LARGER than huge man, at the end.

At the time, he was one of my more favorite players. Huge man with amazing speed.


Salute the nation
 
When DL was here we still had alot of the same problems. LeBeau believed in not letting the big play beat you. He relied on pressure and hoping the other team would make a mistake. One main difference is we were able to stop the run. We also had studs on the DL that were team players and very responsible defensively. I'm sure DL coaching played some role in that. We were also more talented in the secondary. I do think teams were catching onto the 3-4 zone blitz scheme then Tomlin started interjecting his basic tampa 2 and then things started to fall apart. DL was a great coach, but his scheme started to go stale and he was too stubborn to really change. I would still take DL over Tomlin, but with today's rules i still think our defense would have some issues
 
jitter77 said:
When DL was here we still had alot of the same problems. LeBeau believed in not letting the big play beat you. He relied on pressure and hoping the other team would make a mistake. One main difference is we were able to stop the run. We also had studs on the DL that were team players and very responsible defensively. I'm sure DL coaching played some role in that. We were also more talented in the secondary. I do think teams were catching onto the 3-4 zone blitz scheme then Tomlin started interjecting his basic tampa 2 and then things started to fall apart. DL was a great coach, but his scheme started to go stale and he was too stubborn to really change. I would still take DL over Tomlin, but with today's rules i still think our defense would have some issues
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Interesting comment regarding Coach LeBeau. He definitely was all in with his Zone Blitz creation. His mantra for the secondary was “keep it in front of you” and “tackle the catch”. When he had a fantastic athletes to use (Rod and Troy) he‘d let those players freelance. The front seven, stop the run - force the pass, let the LBs make plays behind the LOS and off ball. His defensive philosophy was heavily impacted by Goodell’s rule changes.
 
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