Kinda hard to picture much better linebackers

[SteelerSask2]

Id have to ses what the contract would be but I'm figuring it would be cap friendly. He is replacing Golden not Highsmith here.

 

[Litos]

It’s interesting to see the very future of football happening. Olympics have approved flag football as an official sport as of 2028 In Los Angeles. I’ve read articles saying NFL players and The NFL organizations would like participation . Will we see TJ yelling one Mississippi,two Mississippi….then rush the QB trying to take his flag? Good Lord.

It’s quite obvious that the NFL would love to expand Globally In the future. And are tweaking the rules to promote more offense,as they see it as more entertainment. I believe their all important quest for player safety is also a quest to stay out of the courtroom.

American youth and high school participants continue to shrink. I would venture to say mostly because of the fear of head trauma?Who will feed the nonstop vacuum of college/university teams? It’s an industry. And it’s all about money,money ,money.
As most industry is.

This is not me saying money is a dirty word. Far from it. The NFL as successful as it is can’t just stand still.

97% of NFL players are American Born.
The NBA had 125 international players from 40 countries playing on opening night 2023.
The NHL is a huge mixture of international players. Canadians make up 42%…..Americans 29%.
MLB…..now stands at 30% of players from international countries.

It shall be interesting. The infrastructure of pretty well all of the major sports of the world is fairly global. Obviously soccer is played everywhere. Basketball is played pretty well everywhere. Baseball is in big percentage of the world. Hockey…..North America and Europe. Golf? Pretty well everywhere. And then we have American football. All American and Canadian schools/towns/cities have kids playing football. The rest of the world…..percentage is very small.

They must see this as a huge opportunity. Can you imagine a Mexican born QB leading his team to a SB,with mvp honors. The Jersey sales,Tv viewing/streaming(the future) would be through the roof.

But what makes american football great is the strategy behind the violence, you need both parts for the huge success, but if you take out the violence then what's left? The strategy per se isn't the sexy part

 

[topseed]

Well, Longevity is the common denominator for winning organizations. KC, BUF, LAR, SF, BAL and until recently SEA (I don’t count NWE because of Belicheat) follow this rule. Yet only three of those teams have a championship. PHI has one, but fired the coach, his replacement while winning games, was on the bubble in keeping his job last year from Lurie.

I think every fan wants their team to win the Lombardi every year, but with the exception of KC, it’s just not feasible. The same teams that make the playoffs have stable organizations. Injuries, have a huge impact nowadays, and unless you have depth, you fall behind quick. There are also circumstances that occur that disrupts a team‘s motor (the COVID schedule debacle, cost us at least a higher seed in the playoffs), but players play the game, and coaches coach. That 2020 playoff game, you think 5 turnovers would have occurred had they not played the wildcard? Were those 5 T/Os on coaching? Or maybe the players on the field. The following year, KC (rather Mahomes) had our number. Nothing to be ashamed of. Last January Mason Rudolph led offense had us in the game on the road until late in the 4th. Only a great QB for another perennial playoff team (BUF) made plays to close out the game.

Regardless, Art2 has made it known to the coaches and football ops staff, team needs to be better in all areas. Players, scheme, coaches, talent evaluation, team management, etc. Cowher went though this several times, I think the organization can duplicate success even in this different era of the League.

So I guess you couldn't come up with another NFL head coach in this century who still has their job after not winning a postseason game in seven years. I'm not even talking about winning the Lombardi, I'm talking about a first-round playoff game.

You can continue to make excuses for Tomlin if you'd like, but in each of the 4 playoff contests the Steelers have managed to get to in the last 7 seasons, they've trailed by at least 3 touchdowns at some point in the game. And in 3 of those, it's been 21-0, despite Pittsburgh having records of 13-3 and 12-4 in 2 of those campaigns. To me, that doesn't appear like a head coach who has his team adequately prepared to play in the postseason. Players come and go, but the constant has been Tomlin.

 

[Punxsutawney]

You can continue to make excuses for Tomlin if you'd like, but in each of the 4 playoff contests the Steelers have managed to get to in the last 7 seasons, they've trailed by at least 3 touchdowns at some point in the game. And in 3 of those, it's been 21-0, despite Pittsburgh having records of 13-3 and 12-4 in 2 of those campaigns. To me, that doesn't appear like a head coach who has his team adequately prepared to play in the postseason. Players come and go, but the constant has been Tomlin.

Yeah, the "you cannot win the Superbowl every year " strawman constructed in defense of Tomlin gets weaker with each additional season in which the Steelers do not even get close.

A mere playoff win almost feels worthy of a parade in downtown Pittsburgh at this point. Sad, I know.

 

[Ike Kelly]

So I guess you couldn't come up with another NFL head coach in this century who still has their job after not winning a postseason game in seven years. I'm not even talking about winning the Lombardi, I'm talking about a first-round playoff game.

You can continue to make excuses for Tomlin if you'd like, but in each of the 4 playoff contests the Steelers have managed to get to in the last 7 seasons, they've trailed by at least 3 touchdowns at some point in the game. And in 3 of those, it's been 21-0, despite Pittsburgh having records of 13-3 and 12-4 in 2 of those campaigns. To me, that doesn't appear like a head coach who has his team adequately prepared to play in the postseason. Players come and go, but the constant has been Tomlin.

Naming a coach this century who survives without winning a playoff game in seven years? C’mon Topseed, you know PIT walks to their own drum regarding coaching. Stability is their MO, which brings success more than instant change. There are the McCarthy’s, Payton’s and the Pedersons, and they’ve haven't done anything since their last Super Bowl appearance. Mike Vrabel is a fine coach, who probably gets TEN a championship, but the owner doesn‘t give him a chance. League ownerships with “win now at any cost” or change will occur are the majority now. Looking for that Sean McVay hire (Who is starting on year 3 without a playoff win)

I am not a Tomlin apologist. I‘ve commented before, Tomlin has his flaws. Every coach does. But he still brings a focus that promotes winning games. I thought the Canada hire was a mistake when it happened, such a terrible hire for a twilight Ben. But I’ve seen worse with Cowher (Sherman, Gilbride) and man those years were excruciating. Canada was close if not worse, just because he didn’t communicate with players. I fault Tomlin for not removing him sooner, but there was a rookie QB set to be the franchise replacement for Ben so he had to chose to start over offensively or bring along the rookie. Hindsight is 20/20 on that decision. However, I have to agree to disagree that Tomlin doesn’t have his teams prepared. He does. Sure, he needs a replay guy, but the rules change every year regarding what is reviewable, so what does it matter? Coaches don’t execute the plays on the field, players do. Thats why they get the $$$. Sometimes you have to give credit to the opponent as well. With the exception of Canada, Tomlin asserts the coaches pretty well to provide game plans to help the players be successful on the field and win games. That’s all we or I can ask for. Otherwise, you have this franchise turning into the NYJ, MIN, LVR, WAS or the worse DAL. I personally know ATL, CAR, TEN, WAS, CHI, DEN and LAC fans who all would kill to have Tomlin as their HC. Even with his playoff history the last seven years.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Naming a coach this century who survives without winning a playoff game in seven years? C’mon Topseed, you know PIT walks to their own drum regarding coaching. Stability is their MO, which brings success more than instant change. There are the McCarthy’s, Payton’s and the Pedersons, and they’ve haven't done anything since their last Super Bowl appearance. Mike Vrabel is a fine coach, who probably gets TEN a championship, but the owner doesn‘t give him a chance. League ownerships with “win now at any cost” or change will occur are the majority now. Looking for that Sean McVay hire (Who is starting on year 3 without a playoff win)

I am not a Tomlin apologist. I‘ve commented before, Tomlin has his flaws. Every coach does. But he still brings a focus that promotes winning games. I thought the Canada hire was a mistake when it happened, such a terrible hire for a twilight Ben. But I’ve seen worse with Cowher (Sherman, Gilbride) and man those years were excruciating. Canada was close if not worse, just because he didn’t communicate with players. I fault Tomlin for not removing him sooner, but there was a rookie QB set to be the franchise replacement for Ben so he had to chose to start over offensively or bring along the rookie. Hindsight is 20/20 on that decision. However, I have to agree to disagree that Tomlin doesn’t have his teams prepared. He does. Sure, he needs a replay guy, but the rules change every year regarding what is reviewable, so what does it matter? Coaches don’t execute the plays on the field, players do. Thats why they get the $$$. Sometimes you have to give credit to the opponent as well. With the exception of Canada, Tomlin asserts the coaches pretty well to provide game plans to help the players be successful on the field and win games. That’s all we or I can ask for. Otherwise, you have this franchise turning into the NYJ, MIN, LVR, WAS or the worse DAL. I personally know ATL, CAR, TEN, WAS, CHI, DEN and LAC fans who all would kill to have Tomlin as their HC. Even with his playoff history the last seven years.

So at what point do you get tired of the lack of post season success and demand a change? Another seven years?

At that point, Tomlin will have been coaching the Steelers longer than Noll, and Noll had arguably more post season success in the so-called "dark days" of the 1980s than Tomlin has had over the past decade.

He's already been coaching longer than Cowher, and Cowher was just a year removed from winning a Super Bowl when he left, while Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since the final days of the Obama administration.

Regardless of how competent one believes a coach to be, it is not unreasonable to assume that every coach has an expiration date with a given team.

I can see Tomlin going somewhere else and maybe winning a Super bowl in an ideal situation like he came into after Cowher, but I feel pretty confident in saying he'll never win in Pittsburgh again.

There are definitely benefits to continuity when it comes to the head coach, but when it has yielded no real progress toward a championship for such an extended period, you're basically just having continuity for the sake of continuity and nothing else.

It's reaching the point where it's seeming senseless to keep putting the same man in charge year after year and expecting a different result.

We've been watching the same movie on repeat for a long time now, and though there is no guarantee another coach would be better, it is pretty much a certainty what we're going to get from Tomlin at this point.

Average, often frustrating football throughout the regular season in which if they're fortunate enough to sneak into the playoffs, will conclude with experiencing a nice curb stomping in January.

 

[topseed]

Naming a coach this century who survives without winning a playoff game in seven years? C’mon Topseed, you know PIT walks to their own drum regarding coaching. Stability is their MO, which brings success more than instant change. There are the McCarthy’s, Payton’s and the Pedersons, and they’ve haven't done anything since their last Super Bowl appearance. Mike Vrabel is a fine coach, who probably gets TEN a championship, but the owner doesn‘t give him a chance. League ownerships with “win now at any cost” or change will occur are the majority now. Looking for that Sean McVay hire (Who is starting on year 3 without a playoff win)

Yes, the whole The Steelers have only had three head coaches since 1969! theme has been in vogue for a while now, hasn't it? But what success has it brought in the last 10 years? It's starting to lose its luster at this point. It done lost it for good in 2017 for me.

McCarthy got fired mid-season in the second year following two playoff wins in 2016, and he won a postseason game in 2022.
Payton won three playoff games in his last five years with the Saints, and is now in Denver.
Pederson won a Super Bowl in 2017, got fired three years later, and added another playoff win in 2022.

So all three of those guys either got fired or moved on, spent a year out of football, and still have had more postseason success than Tomlin in the last seven years. Vrabel won two playoff games in 2019. And you're going to bring McVay, a head coach who just won the Super Bowl in 2021, into this conversation because he's 0-1 in the postseason in the last two years? C'mon, man.

I am not a Tomlin apologist. I‘ve commented before, Tomlin has his flaws. Every coach does. But he still brings a focus that promotes winning games. I thought the Canada hire was a mistake when it happened, such a terrible hire for a twilight Ben. But I’ve seen worse with Cowher (Sherman, Gilbride) and man those years were excruciating. Canada was close if not worse, just because he didn’t communicate with players. I fault Tomlin for not removing him sooner, but there was a rookie QB set to be the franchise replacement for Ben so he had to chose to start over offensively or bring along the rookie. Hindsight is 20/20 on that decision. However, I have to agree to disagree that Tomlin doesn’t have his teams prepared. He does. Sure, he needs a replay guy, but the rules change every year regarding what is reviewable, so what does it matter? Coaches don’t execute the plays on the field, players do. Thats why they get the $$$. Sometimes you have to give credit to the opponent as well. With the exception of Canada, Tomlin asserts the coaches pretty well to provide game plans to help the players be successful on the field and win games. That’s all we or I can ask for. Otherwise, you have this franchise turning into the NYJ, MIN, LVR, WAS or the worse DAL. I personally know ATL, CAR, TEN, WAS, CHI, DEN and LAC fans who all would kill to have Tomlin as their HC. Even with his playoff history the last seven years.

Tomlin brings a focus that promotes winning games...just not in the postseason, where it really matters. If you can't admit that falling behind by 21 points or more in each and every one of four playoff games since 2017 might have something to do with a lack of preparation, then yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

And Tomlin doesn't get the $$$?
lol
The gentleman makes $12.5 million per year, which is currently more than all but 4 players on the team.

 

[Ike Kelly]

So at what point do you get tired of the lack of post season success and demand a change? Another seven years?

At that point, Tomlin will have been coaching the Steelers longer than Noll, and Noll had arguably more post season success in the so-called "dark days" of the 1980s than Tomlin has had over the past decade.

He's already been coaching longer than Cowher, and Cowher was just a year removed from winning a Super Bowl when he left, while Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since the final days of the Obama administration.

Regardless of how competent one believes a coach to be, it is not unreasonable to assume that every coach has an expiration date with a given team.

I can see Tomlin going somewhere else and maybe winning a Super bowl in an ideal situation like he came into after Cowher, but I feel pretty confident in saying he'll never win in Pittsburgh again.

There are definitely benefits to continuity when it comes to the head coach, but when it has yielded no real progress toward a championship for such an extended period, you're basically just having continuity for the sake of continuity and nothing else.

It's reaching the point where it's seeming senseless to keep putting the same man in charge year after year and expecting a different result.

We've been watching the same movie on repeat for a long time now, and though there is no guarantee another coach would be better, it is pretty much a certainty what we're going to get from Tomlin at this point.

Average, often frustrating football throughout the regular season in which if they're fortunate enough to sneak into the playoffs, will conclude with experiencing a nice curb stomping in January.

All good arguments Punx, not denying it. But there are two focal points to view from.

Well, I’m optimistic it won’t be another seven years. I know sitting through all those AFC championship losses with Cowher was like chewing glass, but he got us to two SB in between a decade. Different era as well. So having a chance each year, is what I look for. Of course improvement in the playoffs is needed. The defense has always been solid, when there are not damning injuries (I know part of the game), but they usually adjusted to overcome/adapt the impact players. Offense side of the ball, IMO change was needed after year two with Canada. Even still, the FO waited to long to plan for after Ben. It should have happened after his UCL tear. But, it was easy to be complacent. 75% Ben was better than anyone else. But it hurt the franchise at the position.

My observation sees a renewed emphasis on having a solid foundation on both sides of the ball, which breeds success. What else am I supposed to do? Bitching and crying doesn’t help. So I trust ownership and FO will provide what is needed to be more successful. Otherwise, we have DAL, CLE, CHI, DEN, WAS and the like to look forward to In team ownership/FO.

 

[BLITZ]

All good arguments Punx, not denying it. But there are two focal points to view from.

Well, I’m optimistic it won’t be another seven years. I know sitting through all those AFC championship losses with Cowher was like chewing glass, but he got us to two SB in between a decade. Different era as well. So having a chance each year, is what I look for. Of course improvement in the playoffs is needed. The defense has always been solid, when there are not damning injuries (I know part of the game), but they usually adjusted to overcome/adapt the impact players. Offense side of the ball, IMO change was needed after year two with Canada. Even still, the FO waited to long to plan for after Ben. It should have happened after his UCL tear. But, it was easy to be complacent. 75% Ben was better than anyone else. But it hurt the franchise at the position.

My observation sees a renewed emphasis on having a solid foundation on both sides of the ball, which breeds success. What else am I supposed to do? Bitching and crying doesn’t help. So I trust ownership and FO will provide what is needed to be more successful. Otherwise, we have DAL, CLE, CHI, DEN, WAS and the like to look forward to In team ownership/FO.

Well said!

 

[Ike Kelly]

Yes, the whole The Steelers have only had three head coaches since 1969! theme has been in vogue for a while now, hasn't it? But what success has it brought in the last 10 years? It's starting to lose its luster at this point. It done lost it for good in 2017 for me.

McCarthy got fired mid-season in the second year following two playoff wins in 2016, and he won a postseason game in 2022.
Payton won three playoff games in his last five years with the Saints, and is now in Denver.
Pederson won a Super Bowl in 2017, got fired three years later, and added another playoff win in 2022.

So all three of those guys either got fired or moved on, spent a year out of football, and still have had more postseason success than Tomlin in the last seven years. Vrabel won two playoff games in 2019. And you're going to bring McVay, a head coach who just won the Super Bowl in 2021, into this conversation because he's 0-1 in the postseason in the last two years? C'mon, man.

Tomlin brings a focus that promotes winning games...just not in the postseason, where it really matters. If you can't admit that falling behind by 21 points or more in each and every one of four playoff games since 2017 might have something to do with a lack of preparation, then yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

And Tomlin doesn't get the $$$?
lol
The gentleman makes $12.5 million per year, which is currently more than all but 4 players on the team.

The 2017 Divisional round is the litmus test for those who want a change. Yet, Ben cost us that game (not coaching) INT deep in our side, and then fumbling on driving inside the JAX 30 which was returned for a TD. Le’Veon getting stuffed on that 4th and 1 sure didn’t help, but it was after the INT which led 14 - 0 deficit. So, you take the odds. JAX had a pretty damn good team as well. Bortles almost beat a Belicheat team as well.

What has McCarthy, Payton or Pederson done with their new team after moving on? Better yet (with the exception of PHI), what have GB, NO won after seeing the grass on the other side. GB had Rodgers to carry them, and he was an headache to deal with. Right now, they think Love will be the next (TBD) Franchise winner. Maybe they buck the trend.

Coach salaries don’t impact the team final roster. There isn’t some supreme calculus to paying winning coaches. McVay, Payton and Andy make more than Tomlin. Andy deservedly so. Tomlin and Harbaugh round out the top five. Other than Andy and McVay of three years ago, who by the way wanted to retire before last season, what difference does HC salary make? An Owner will choose the best HC they need for their team. Mind you there are only a few owners who know how to be successful at that.

 

[Punxsutawney]

All good arguments Punx, not denying it. But there are two focal points to view from.

Well, I’m optimistic it won’t be another seven years. I know sitting through all those AFC championship losses with Cowher was like chewing glass, but he got us to two SB in between a decade. Different era as well. So having a chance each year, is what I look for. Of course improvement in the playoffs is needed. The defense has always been solid, when there are not damning injuries (I know part of the game), but they usually adjusted to overcome/adapt the impact players. Offense side of the ball, IMO change was needed after year two with Canada. Even still, the FO waited to long to plan for after Ben. It should have happened after his UCL tear. But, it was easy to be complacent. 75% Ben was better than anyone else. But it hurt the franchise at the position.

My observation sees a renewed emphasis on having a solid foundation on both sides of the ball, which breeds success. What else am I supposed to do? Bitching and crying doesn’t help. So I trust ownership and FO will provide what is needed to be more successful. Otherwise, we have DAL, CLE, CHI, DEN, WAS and the like to look forward to In team ownership/FO.

There is something to be said for Tomlin having the team competitive by the end of every season, but avoiding losing seasons is not the ultimate objective, and it gets to the point where one has to wonder if this is all he is capable of delivering anymore.

It has not been an isolated two or three year situation, as it has largely been a bunch of "meh" since the Superbowl loss to the Packers.

Cowher obviously never went to the Superbowl every year, and had some losing seasons, but he at least got the Steelers close much more frequently than Tomlin has.

I'm open to the idea that finally working with a different front office might provide Tomlin with a different perspective and approach to things.

As you alluded, the emphasis Tomlin and Khan/Weidl have placed on the OL early in the draft is encouraging, as it was something he and Colbert had refused to do for an inexplicable period of time

However, as it pertains to how he coaches the team, I tend to think Tomlin is largely set in his ways after nearly two decades.

 

[Ike Kelly]

There is something to be said for Tomlin having the team competitive by the end of every season, but avoiding losing seasons is not the ultimate objective, and it gets to the point where one has to wonder if this is all he is capable of delivering anymore.

It has not been an isolated two or three year situation, as it has largely been a bunch of "meh" since the Superbowl loss to the Packers.

Cowher obviously never went to the Superbowl every year, and had some losing seasons, but he at least got the Steelers close much more frequently than Tomlin has.

I'm open to the idea that finally working with a different front office might provide Tomlin with a different perspective and approach to things.

As you alluded, the emphasis Tomlin and Khan/Weidl have placed on the OL early in the draft is encouraging, as it was something he and Colbert had refused to do for an inexplicable period of time

However, as it pertains to how he coaches the team, I tend to think Tomlin is largely set in his ways after nearly two decades.

I could care less about “no losing seasons”. I only care about winning games, winning the division, setting yourself up to get to the SB. Tomlin has presented the same ideology every year like Chin did. Right now Andy/KC has the formula. I really thought McDermott/BUF would dethrone Andy, since he has Josh Allen and that defense. But as we’ve seen it looks like their window is closing with all the changes teh are having. Their reset will be easier than ours because they have their QB. But I have to believe we will be better than last year just by ****-canning that offense and having an OC who knows how to call plays without predictability or 10 sweeps a game.

I think Art2 modified his MO by letting Omar/Andy present alternative or fresh visions for Tomlin and his staff. Kevin didn’t do that, he generally worked his method as defined y what type of players Chin and Tomlin wanted. This new FO looks at more than just players but rather how to use types of players. Getting guys who best fit the system. Queen will be a monster in our system, and if either Wilson or Fields can run the offense Smith has in mind, then unpredictably will make this team better. Thats the optimistic part of me. If I was negative, I would be saying it’s a lost season because the offense is unknown, with a 36 y/o QB and a former 1st rounder who hasn’t done anything. But knowing Smith runs two TE sets and Heavy personnel often, lets me view that we will go back to controlling the trenches and smash mouth football.

 

[topseed]

The 2017 Divisional round is the litmus test for those who want a change. Yet, Ben cost us that game (not coaching) INT deep in our side, and then fumbling on driving inside the JAX 30 which was returned for a TD. Le’Veon getting stuffed on that 4th and 1 sure didn’t help, but it was after the INT which led 14 - 0 deficit. So, you take the odds. JAX had a pretty damn good team as well. Bortles almost beat a Belicheat team as well.

Yeah, blame it on Ben and his two turnovers. Never mind that he negated the fumble return TD (which was 50 yards, not 70+) by scoring on the following possession with 25 seconds left in the half. Never mind the 469 yards passing and 5 TDs. It was his fault that Jacksonville ran for 165 yards and scored 4 rushing touchdowns. See, personally I would have ensured that the #1 rushing offense in the NFL wasn't going to win the game for the Jags. I'd have forced Blake Bortles to beat me. I'd have put a plan in place to counteract what the opponent does best, not just gone out there and "do what we do." But I'm not a future Hall-of-Famer like Mike Tomlin.

What has McCarthy, Payton or Pederson done with their new team after moving on? Better yet (with the exception of PHI), what have GB, NO won after seeing the grass on the other side. GB had Rodgers to carry them, and he was an headache to deal with. Right now, they think Love will be the next (TBD) Franchise winner. Maybe they buck the trend.

Let's not exclude Philadelphia, since they went to another Super Bowl with their new coach. And the Packers have gone to the conference championship game twice in five years under LaFleur. When's the last time Tomlin accomplished that? Let's see...that would be 2010. 14 years ago. Let's stick with him for another 14 years because the grass has been so green lately.

Coach salaries don’t impact the team final roster. There isn’t some supreme calculus to paying winning coaches. McVay, Payton and Andy make more than Tomlin. Andy deservedly so. Tomlin and Harbaugh round out the top five. Other than Andy and McVay of three years ago, who by the way wanted to retire before last season, what difference does HC salary make? An Owner will choose the best HC they need for their team. Mind you there are only a few owners who know how to be successful at that.

You said that the players make the $$$. I said that Tomlin makes more money than 90+% of his players. It's just a fact.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Yeah, blame it on Ben and his two turnovers. Never mind that he negated the fumble return TD (which was 50 yards, not 70+) by scoring on the following possession with 25 seconds left in the half. Never mind the 469 yards passing and 5 TDs. It was his fault that Jacksonville ran for 165 yards and scored 4 rushing touchdowns. See, personally I would have ensured that the #1 rushing offense in the NFL wasn't going to win the game for the Jags. I'd have forced Blake Bortles to beat me. I'd have put a plan in place to counteract what the opponent does best, not just gone out there and "do what we do." But I'm not a future Hall-of-Famer like Mike Tomlin.

Yeah, that game was just as much on the defense as anything else.

Even if you take the points the Jaguars had off of turnovers away, they still scored more in that game than they did in their other two playoff games that year combined.

Ben and the offense pretty much dominated after the slow start, but every time they'd make the game close, the Jaguars would just march down the field and score.

It probably wasn't as bad as the Tebow game, but it's close. Tomlin's defenses getting destroyed in the playoffs has become a tradition at this point.

I don't think he should have been fired after the Jaguars game, but he should have been on the hot seat going into the 2018 season with the window closing on Ben's prime.

The collapse after the 7-2-1 start that year, with the AB fiasco being the cherry on top, should have been it, but here we are in 2024.......

 

[BLITZ]

Yeah, that game was just as much on the defense as anything else.

Even if you take the points the Jaguars had off of turnovers away, they still scored more in that game than they did in their other two playoff games that year combined.

Ben and the offense pretty much dominated after the slow start, but every time they'd make the game close, the Jaguars would just march down the field and score.

It probably wasn't as bad as the Tebow game, but it's close. Tomlin's defenses getting destroyed in the playoffs has become a tradition at this point.

I don't think he should have been fired after the Jaguars game, but he should have been on the hot seat going into the 2018 season with the window closing on Ben's prime.

The collapse after the 7-2-1 start that year, with the AB fiasco being the cherry on top, should have been it, but here we are in 2024.......

I was talking to a totally drunk Todd Haley in a bar IN MD a few years back.
He brought up this game. he was like the offense scored 42 points in that game and they parted ways with me?

 

[Ike Kelly]

Yeah, blame it on Ben and his two turnovers. Never mind that he negated the fumble return TD (which was 50 yards, not 70+) by scoring on the following possession with 25 seconds left in the half. Never mind the 469 yards passing and 5 TDs. It was his fault that Jacksonville ran for 165 yards and scored 4 rushing touchdowns. See, personally I would have ensured that the #1 rushing offense in the NFL wasn't going to win the game for the Jags. I'd have forced Blake Bortles to beat me. I'd have put a plan in place to counteract what the opponent does best, not just gone out there and "do what we do." But I'm not a future Hall-of-Famer like Mike Tomlin.

Sure that was the game plan on defense, stop the run force the pass. The same one they always try. But when you are playing from 14-21 points behind that plan goes bye bye. I don‘t absolve the defense being responsible, however, after getting to within seven, and both defenses forcing punts for almost a quarter, on a 4th and 1 in JAX territory, Ben opts for a bomb? Sorry, I think Ben made the wrong decision and audibled out of the intended play. But that’s the way Ben played and it usually worked. JAX scored on their next possession set up by the short field and Bortles longest pass of the game. Ben still gave a Herculean effort battling us back, but there wasn’t enough time left to overcome two scores.

Let's not exclude Philadelphia, since they went to another Super Bowl with their new coach. And the Packers have gone to the conference championship game twice in five years under LaFleur. When's the last time Tomlin accomplished that? Let's see...that would be 2010. 14 years ago. Let's stick with him for another 14 years because the grass has been so green lately.

Oh, can we bring up the winning with other coaches player BS now? That‘s what used for Tomlin’s early success. LaFleur is a good coach, who had a QB who thought he made all team decisions. We will see how he does with his hand picked QB now. Sirianni is supposedly on Lurie’s short leash after being one and done between losing to KC. Who knows, he may not even get the chance to show he can Win a championship. PHI is a loaded team right now though.

You said that the players make the $$$. I said that Tomlin makes more money than 90+% of his players. It's just a fact

The fact is, there are only 32 HC positions. Tomlin gets what $12 mil a year? How many players on each team in the league bring in more than that? Probably two or three players at least. The players bring the product. AKA, winning games on the field. Coaches doing their job, puts players into position to win.

I acknowledge your viewpoint Top, and understand how you get to it. Which is perfectly fine, with no disrespect to you, I just don’t agree with it. Either way, we and others who are on opposite sides of this argument wait with anticipation each year. That is until Goodell turns the League into Flag football.

 

[topseed]

It probably wasn't as bad as the Tebow game, but it's close. Tomlin's defenses getting destroyed in the playoffs has become a tradition at this point.

I don't think he should have been fired after the Jaguars game, but he should have been on the hot seat going into the 2018 season with the window closing on Ben's prime.

The collapse after the 7-2-1 start that year, with the AB fiasco being the cherry on top, should have been it, but here we are in 2024.......

But at the end of the day, Ike is right -- the Steelers are enamored with head coaching stability. They have a rule named after them. Tomlin isn't going anywhere until he decides that it's time.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I was talking to a totally drunk Todd Haley in a bar IN MD a few years back.
He brought up this game. he was like the offense scored 42 points in that game and they parted ways with me?

Uh, yeah. We know who wanted Haley gone and it wasn’t Mr. Rooney or anyone else on the coaching staff. Anyone else think that if Haley and Ben had cooler heads that offense would have thrived even more?

 

[topseed]

Sure that was the game plan on defense, stop the run force the pass. The same one they always try. But when you are playing from 14-21 points behind that plan goes bye bye. I don‘t absolve the defense being responsible, however, after getting to within seven, and both defenses forcing punts for almost a quarter, on a 4th and 1 in JAX territory, Ben opts for a bomb? Sorry, I think Ben made the wrong decision and audibled out of the intended play. But that’s the way Ben played and it usually worked. JAX scored on their next possession set up by the short field and Bortles longest pass of the game. Ben still gave a Herculean effort battling us back, but there wasn’t enough time left to overcome two scores.

Wait, so stopping the run went out the window when they fell behind? The exact opposite is true. Jacksonville would obviously be running the ball even more with the lead.

Oh, can we bring up the winning with other coaches player BS now? That‘s what used for Tomlin’s early success. LaFleur is a good coach, who had a QB who thought he made all team decisions. We will see how he does with his hand picked QB now. Sirianni is supposedly on Lurie’s short leash after being one and done between losing to KC. Who knows, he may not even get the chance to show he can Win a championship. PHI is a loaded team right now though.

lol
YOU brought it up. YOU asked what Green Bay has done since firing McCarthy. The answer is they've gone to the NFCCG twice in five years. Tomlin is 0-3 in that time frame.

The fact is, there are only 32 HC positions. Tomlin gets what $12 mil a year? How many players on each team in the league bring in more than that? Probably two or three players at least. The players bring the product. AKA, winning games on the field. Coaches doing their job, puts players into position to win.

I acknowledge your viewpoint Top, and understand how you get to it. Which is perfectly fine, with no disrespect to you, I just don’t agree with it. Either way, we and others who are on opposite sides of this argument wait with anticipation each year. That is until Goodell turns the League into Flag football.

Yes, Tomlin makes $12.5 million per year. He's been among the highest-paid coaches for years and years now, signing extension after extension -- no matter how ineffective his teams have been in the postseason. I agree, it doesn't really matter what the Steelers decide to pay him, but it just hasn't been commensurate with the results.

I acknowledge that you don't want the Steelers to become "DAL, CLE, CHI, DEN, WAS," and you're content with being competitive (realatively speaking, of course) every year. But who's to say that would happen if they parted ways with Tomlin? Sometimes it's just time for a change. But as I said above, Tomlin himself will determine when that happens. So unless the playoff results change (which I am actually optimistic about this season), we'll be having this same discussion perpetually until MT chooses to go away.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

That is until Goodell turns the League into Flag football.

Goodell doesn't turn the league into anything but the owners want; get that straight.

 

[stillwright]

Watt, Queen, Roberts, Highsmith, Herbig, Wilson, Holcomb, Robinson. Back in the day it would be blitzburgh. It will be cover and hunt. And to be fair to shades the secondary probably can't play much zero or cover 1.

Let's see how it translates out onto the field. This defense our beloved Tomlin has employed over the last decade or so hasn't translated into the dominance that we have seen in the past. Fingers crossed that this year is a special year. I won't hold my breath though...

 

[stillwright]

Very good group of LBers that’s for sure. Solid players at every level on defense. Highest paid defense too.
Now to the reality! Look who is leading that defense, Tomlin and the infamous Terrell Austin.
Play not to lose mentality!
Now you want a great defensive mind, look no further than KC’s Steve Spagnuolo whose defense played lights out last year. They were the main reason KC won another SB when Mahomes had not one of his banner super seasons. He played well but that defense was the catalyst for that team.
Young, fast, aggressive with what, one or two big name players. And one of the least expensive defenses in the league.
Yeah, coaching does matter. The best coordinators do matter.

Yep.....I agree. TOMLIN'S fingers in the defense has been our downfall. Hopefully this year will be different. HOPEFULLY!!!

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Goodell doesn't turn the league into anything but the owners want; get that straight.

Just go away **** tard . You cant shine Ike Kellys shoes.

 

[Steelmann]

I'd have forced Blake Bortles to beat me.

Remember when they used that ideology with the Tim ******* Tebow led Denver Broncos? How did that work out?I wanted to fire CMT and yes,Dick Lebeau right after the game. No adjustments what so ever. Right up there in the top 5 losses for me.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Dupree signed 2 year 6 million max 10 million with Chargers.