Let's Go PENS!
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The earth is shaking
Panic in Pittsburgh
Two NHL teams were eliminated from the second round of the 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs on Tuesday, but you couldn’t paint more disparate pictures of perception. One team almost seemed to come out of their crushing defeat as partial winners while the other seems like they’ll be in a dour mood for days upon weeks upon months.
In case you’re somehow not figuring this out already, the Minnesota Wild are the near-winners and the Pittsburgh Penguins are being portrayed as the super-losers in this case.
As far as discussing the Wild, there isn’t a whole lot to say. This run (ended by Patrick Kane’s patently ridiculous overtime goal, which is only slightly less ridiculous because Kane always seems to score ridiculous goals) seems like it will justify the extended work of GM Chuck Fletcher and head coach Mike Yeo. The only questions, really, are what will happen with their netminding situation and if the Montreal Canadiens’ own run might deter Thomas Vanek from his seemingly predetermined path to Minnesota.
The team worth about 50,000-words is the Penguins
I can’t help but imagine the panic on the streets of Pittsburgh, even if it’s limited to the city’s hockey fans. Giving up a 3-1 series lead to the New York Rangers really completes the collection of disappointments over the years: getting swept and neutralized by the Boston Bruins, being beaten by their own high-flying game by the Philadelphia Flyers, usurped by injuries or some other factor by the Tampa Bay Lightning and upset by the Montreal Canadiens in seven games.
That’s quite the combination of gut-punching defeats, so it wouldn’t be surprising if big changes will be made in Pittsburgh.
I’m not going to go too deep regarding head coach Dan Bylsma and GM Ray Shero here, because while coaching can easily impact fantasy numbers, it’s not especially useful to speculate on potential bench bosses in a fantasy column. I’ll keep it to this: you could make a very reasonable argument for the ouster of both, but if you were to pick one, I’d go with Shero. For all the adjustments Bylsma may have been able to make, who did he really have to insert into the lineup who could have made a difference? The Penguins didn’t have many offensive options beyond the obvious guys … and I would argue that Pittsburgh’s lack of depth doomed them at least the last two playoffs, if not longer.
Anyway, let’s shift to the stuff that’s more fun to discuss. I’ll mix fantasy hockey talk with imaginary GM work. Feel free to share your own thoughts regarding which steps would be ideal regarding the Penguins on Twitter, in the comments or via e-mail.
1. Sid is fine - Crosby couldn't score a point against the Bruins (and still finished the 2013 postseason with 15 points in 14 games) and finished this season blowing everyone else away with a 104-points season. That's the third-best total of his career, but considering the times - no one else even hit 90 points, as Ryan Getzlaf came in second with 87 points - it might just be the best or second-best performance he’s generated in his outstanding career.
He’s the first pick of any reasonable draft, OK?
2. Geno is A-OK - Evgeni Malkin’s year-to-year stats sure have been odd the last few years. Even giving him a pass for a point-per-game output in an abbreviated 2012-13 season, take a look at his unpredictable work:
2009-10: 77 points
10-11: 37
11-12: 109
12-13: 33
13-14: 72
Is that frustrating? Yes, but he also got those 72 points in 60 games (a 98.4-point pace in 82 games), so I figure that he remains a first-round pick as always.
3. The Penguins shouldn’t re-sign Marc-Andre Fleury - This isn't a condemnation of "The Fleury." Instead, I think NHL teams are way too antsy to lock up goalies long-term. And, really, could Fleury do anything in 2014-15 to drive his value up through the roof? Even a great season would still carry the baggage of many disappointing seasons before it. (It's not like a situation the Columbus Blue Jackets faced after Sergei Bobrovsky won the Vezina Trophy yet had very little NHL-level experience, relatively speaking.)
So why not see if greed would be good for MAF?
He already delivered nicely in a "prove-it" season, winning 39 regular season games while putting up a solid .915 save percentage in both the regular season and playoffs.
If nothing else, it would work wonders for fantasy owners. That's what is really important, isn't it?
4. Walk the tightrope with Matt Niskanen - You couldn’t ask for a much better contract year situation for Matt Niskanen, which might be a less-than-ideal situation for the Penguins. His 46 points in 2013-14 is more than he scored in 2012-13, 2011-12 and 2010-11 (45 points) combined.
A significant spike in production is a red flag to be careful about spending to re-up someone, although it’s conceivable that Niskanen can produce with the Penguins again. It’s just a matter of price.
The important note is that Kris Letang could play 82 games or close to that and possibly dilute the value of even a keyed-in Niskanen. That said, they could both benefit each other if the Penguins bring Niskanen back. I do like that Niskanen brings a nice mix of that offense with some decent snarl (124 hits, 51 PIM this season).
So, just to summarize, I think Niskanen could be valuable in fantasy, maybe especially in Pittsburgh. Whether it’s a wise real-world decision depends upon the price.
5. Don’t be too loyal to your free agents - The reason it’s so natural to wonder if the potential big changes in Pittsburgh would come at the management level is because the Penguins’ biggest names are all basically locked up long-term (except Fleury).
The “nucleus” is pretty difficult to touch without making foolish, losing trades, yet the “electrons” are largely not even signed depending upon whom you consider. In other words, Pittsburgh’s supporting cast could be hugely different next season.
This might be the clearest reason why this would be as wise a time as ever to change management with the Penguins. Shero and Bylsma might feel a bit too loyal to a guy who’s becoming more and more of a fringe player like Brooks Orpik. Might Shero feel a little too obliged to re-sign a guy like Lee Stempniak, too.
Whoever is in office, they should consider shooting for free agents who can take some of the pressure off of Crosby and Malkin.
Cap Geek estimates their space this summer at about $16 million, but that's with a $71 million cap that might be a million or two fewer. Assuming they re-sign Niskanen, that space could be closer to $10-$12 million.
That doesn't give Pittsburgh a ton of room to work with, yet perhaps they can squeeze a useful player or two under the cap nonetheless; an Ales Hemsky or Radim Vrbata (the latter especially unlikely) would be a dream while a Mikhail Grabovski or Steve Downie could provide welcome variety.
Either way, the "let the stars do everything" plan has worked wonders during the regular season but isn't getting the job done in the playoffs.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nh...-in-pittsburgh
Panic in Pittsburgh
Two NHL teams were eliminated from the second round of the 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs on Tuesday, but you couldn’t paint more disparate pictures of perception. One team almost seemed to come out of their crushing defeat as partial winners while the other seems like they’ll be in a dour mood for days upon weeks upon months.
In case you’re somehow not figuring this out already, the Minnesota Wild are the near-winners and the Pittsburgh Penguins are being portrayed as the super-losers in this case.
As far as discussing the Wild, there isn’t a whole lot to say. This run (ended by Patrick Kane’s patently ridiculous overtime goal, which is only slightly less ridiculous because Kane always seems to score ridiculous goals) seems like it will justify the extended work of GM Chuck Fletcher and head coach Mike Yeo. The only questions, really, are what will happen with their netminding situation and if the Montreal Canadiens’ own run might deter Thomas Vanek from his seemingly predetermined path to Minnesota.
The team worth about 50,000-words is the Penguins
I can’t help but imagine the panic on the streets of Pittsburgh, even if it’s limited to the city’s hockey fans. Giving up a 3-1 series lead to the New York Rangers really completes the collection of disappointments over the years: getting swept and neutralized by the Boston Bruins, being beaten by their own high-flying game by the Philadelphia Flyers, usurped by injuries or some other factor by the Tampa Bay Lightning and upset by the Montreal Canadiens in seven games.
That’s quite the combination of gut-punching defeats, so it wouldn’t be surprising if big changes will be made in Pittsburgh.
I’m not going to go too deep regarding head coach Dan Bylsma and GM Ray Shero here, because while coaching can easily impact fantasy numbers, it’s not especially useful to speculate on potential bench bosses in a fantasy column. I’ll keep it to this: you could make a very reasonable argument for the ouster of both, but if you were to pick one, I’d go with Shero. For all the adjustments Bylsma may have been able to make, who did he really have to insert into the lineup who could have made a difference? The Penguins didn’t have many offensive options beyond the obvious guys … and I would argue that Pittsburgh’s lack of depth doomed them at least the last two playoffs, if not longer.
Anyway, let’s shift to the stuff that’s more fun to discuss. I’ll mix fantasy hockey talk with imaginary GM work. Feel free to share your own thoughts regarding which steps would be ideal regarding the Penguins on Twitter, in the comments or via e-mail.
1. Sid is fine - Crosby couldn't score a point against the Bruins (and still finished the 2013 postseason with 15 points in 14 games) and finished this season blowing everyone else away with a 104-points season. That's the third-best total of his career, but considering the times - no one else even hit 90 points, as Ryan Getzlaf came in second with 87 points - it might just be the best or second-best performance he’s generated in his outstanding career.
He’s the first pick of any reasonable draft, OK?
2. Geno is A-OK - Evgeni Malkin’s year-to-year stats sure have been odd the last few years. Even giving him a pass for a point-per-game output in an abbreviated 2012-13 season, take a look at his unpredictable work:
2009-10: 77 points
10-11: 37
11-12: 109
12-13: 33
13-14: 72
Is that frustrating? Yes, but he also got those 72 points in 60 games (a 98.4-point pace in 82 games), so I figure that he remains a first-round pick as always.
3. The Penguins shouldn’t re-sign Marc-Andre Fleury - This isn't a condemnation of "The Fleury." Instead, I think NHL teams are way too antsy to lock up goalies long-term. And, really, could Fleury do anything in 2014-15 to drive his value up through the roof? Even a great season would still carry the baggage of many disappointing seasons before it. (It's not like a situation the Columbus Blue Jackets faced after Sergei Bobrovsky won the Vezina Trophy yet had very little NHL-level experience, relatively speaking.)
So why not see if greed would be good for MAF?
He already delivered nicely in a "prove-it" season, winning 39 regular season games while putting up a solid .915 save percentage in both the regular season and playoffs.
If nothing else, it would work wonders for fantasy owners. That's what is really important, isn't it?
4. Walk the tightrope with Matt Niskanen - You couldn’t ask for a much better contract year situation for Matt Niskanen, which might be a less-than-ideal situation for the Penguins. His 46 points in 2013-14 is more than he scored in 2012-13, 2011-12 and 2010-11 (45 points) combined.
A significant spike in production is a red flag to be careful about spending to re-up someone, although it’s conceivable that Niskanen can produce with the Penguins again. It’s just a matter of price.
The important note is that Kris Letang could play 82 games or close to that and possibly dilute the value of even a keyed-in Niskanen. That said, they could both benefit each other if the Penguins bring Niskanen back. I do like that Niskanen brings a nice mix of that offense with some decent snarl (124 hits, 51 PIM this season).
So, just to summarize, I think Niskanen could be valuable in fantasy, maybe especially in Pittsburgh. Whether it’s a wise real-world decision depends upon the price.
5. Don’t be too loyal to your free agents - The reason it’s so natural to wonder if the potential big changes in Pittsburgh would come at the management level is because the Penguins’ biggest names are all basically locked up long-term (except Fleury).
The “nucleus” is pretty difficult to touch without making foolish, losing trades, yet the “electrons” are largely not even signed depending upon whom you consider. In other words, Pittsburgh’s supporting cast could be hugely different next season.
This might be the clearest reason why this would be as wise a time as ever to change management with the Penguins. Shero and Bylsma might feel a bit too loyal to a guy who’s becoming more and more of a fringe player like Brooks Orpik. Might Shero feel a little too obliged to re-sign a guy like Lee Stempniak, too.
Whoever is in office, they should consider shooting for free agents who can take some of the pressure off of Crosby and Malkin.
Cap Geek estimates their space this summer at about $16 million, but that's with a $71 million cap that might be a million or two fewer. Assuming they re-sign Niskanen, that space could be closer to $10-$12 million.
That doesn't give Pittsburgh a ton of room to work with, yet perhaps they can squeeze a useful player or two under the cap nonetheless; an Ales Hemsky or Radim Vrbata (the latter especially unlikely) would be a dream while a Mikhail Grabovski or Steve Downie could provide welcome variety.
Either way, the "let the stars do everything" plan has worked wonders during the regular season but isn't getting the job done in the playoffs.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nh...-in-pittsburgh
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Classic Headlines in the making...
Fans struggle to understand Penguins' front-office moves
http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/6124073-74/bylsma-shero-cushing#axzz31hIG1Rax
Fans struggle to understand Penguins' front-office moves
http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/6124073-74/bylsma-shero-cushing#axzz31hIG1Rax
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Yep, exactly. There is no excuse for not giving 100% regardless of the makeup of the team. Quitting shouldn't be tolerated.
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This team is a mess. That said, I am not even angry. I think it is crummy that Ron and Mario are gonna let Dan twist on the vine like that. If I were Bylsma, I would resign. He'll be out of a job for about 10 minutes.
K
khruuton
Guest
Sid's problems are narrowed down to two issues: One is personal and the other is physical.
I'm not sure if the personal issue is going to be talked about. Rob Rossi alluded to the situation with Sid as being "heart-wrenching" when people find out. The physical issue hasn't been disclosed yet but I absolutely know Sid has been receiving treatments daily for an undisclosed injury. From what I know of the PT group and what I can tell from watching Sid at the start of the playoffs, I believe he has a broken foot. I can't verify this, it's just my guess. But I totally know he's been "secretly" treated for a condition.
I'm not sure if the personal issue is going to be talked about. Rob Rossi alluded to the situation with Sid as being "heart-wrenching" when people find out. The physical issue hasn't been disclosed yet but I absolutely know Sid has been receiving treatments daily for an undisclosed injury. From what I know of the PT group and what I can tell from watching Sid at the start of the playoffs, I believe he has a broken foot. I can't verify this, it's just my guess. But I totally know he's been "secretly" treated for a condition.
Mike Milbury, come on down! 
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Wow what an epic disappointment this season turned out to be. I'm glad i wasn't at those games live. These last few years have been wasted when they should have been winning cups.
That ****** them up. It was sad.
Makes you wonder in our series, how Good are the rangers or did we just **** the bed.
The Rangers were the better team going into the playoffs.... When it really counted.
Making the rounds on Facebook.
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The broken foot is what Canadians had reported weeks ago. Not sure why the Pens don't disclose now...
Not sure about the personal issue. Hope all is ok for Sid.
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Local media sticks in it's knives
Starkey: Crosby led Penguins down drain
Don't let that little front-office earthquake distract you from the primary reason the Penguins are not participating in the Eastern Conference final.
The primary reason is Sidney Crosby, whose leadership never has been more in question.
If you didn't know better, you'd be looking for blood on Crosby's hands in the wake of Ray Shero's beheading and the pending demise of Dan Bylsma. You'd think he tried to orchestrate the palace coup.
Set aside, for a moment, Crosby's paltry playoff numbers. This is bigger than that. It's about the way he comported himself.
It's about the mysteriously early exits from power plays, the drifting to the bench in the middle of shifts, the uncharacteristic snapping at the coach and the perpetually blank look on his face.
If we find out he was badly injured, different story. But there is no evidence of that. The evidence suggests Crosby was unhappy and wanted the world to know it.
There are some who can't help but make excuses for Crosby. Sid's Sycophants. They have pitted him against Evgeni Malkin since the latter arrived, always favoring Sid.
You know what you'll get every night from Sid, they'd say. But Geno? Geno's too unpredictable. Geno at his worst evokes the shadowy side of Jaromir Jagr.
Yeah, that's it: Sid is Mario; Geno is Jagr.
Well, who looked like the moody, easily frustrated, coach-killer version of Jagr in these playoffs? And who looked more like Lemieux, laying it on the line in Game 7 and putting up a conference-leading point total through two series?
Imagine if Crosby were leading the conference in scoring and Malkin had one goal in his past 18 playoff games. Do you think the Sycophants would be finding excuses for Malkin?
More likely they'd be hanging him in effigy in Market Square.
One thing we never heard from Crosby during these playoffs was an unprompted, unqualified statement of personal responsibility.
A leader's first commandment is to personally and publicly accept blame even when he is not at fault but especially when he is. It tends to play well in locker rooms.
But in the midst of his hideous playoff, Crosby never said anything like this: “Put it on me. I'm the captain. I'm not getting it done.”
Instead, the best he could muster after his wretched Game 2 against Columbus was, “We've got to be better.”
We?
On locker clean-out day, a defensive Crosby said, “Obviously, I would have liked to score more and contribute more. But it wasn't from a lack of effort.”
OK. But when I watched Game 7, I couldn't help but notice that Malkin practically poured his soul onto the ice while Crosby often skirted the perimeter.
Did it look to you like Crosby brought every ounce of his hockey being to Game 7?
The captain also said, “I'd love to tear it up every series, but it doesn't always happen.”
Nobody's demanding that Crosby “tear it up every series.” How about just showing up as a leader of men?
The Sycophants' excuses never end. They'll tell you the Penguins have wasted the past four years of Crosby's career.
That's a lie. The Penguins had Cup-capable rosters in 2010, '12 and '13 and were certainly as good as the Rangers or Canadiens this year. If their best player hadn't failed them, they'd be playing another flawed team in the Canadiens right now.
The weak-wingers complaint needs to die, too. The Penguins offered Marian Hossa $50 million and a guaranteed spot next to Crosby for the prime of his career. Hossa couldn't get out of town fast enough. They brought in Jarome Iginla. Crosby preferred Pascal Dupuis.
The line of Crosby, Dupuis and Chris Kunitz was highly productive. Crosby enjoyed playing with them. So the Penguins shelled out $26.5 million to keep both.
Yeah, poor Sid.
Feel free to hide your eyes before we look at how Crosby has fared in his past four season-ending games” Montreal Game 7 in 2010, Philly Game 6 in '12, Boston Game 4 in '13 and Rangers Game 7.
In those four games, the Penguins' best player totaled zero goals, zero assists and a minus-6 (still checking on his Corsi rating).
So go ahead and be distracted by the ongoing palace coup at 1001 Fifth Ave. It's pretty riveting stuff.
Just know that the Penguins should still be playing.
Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/6101920-74/crosby-penguins-game#ixzz326mjcZzU
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook
Starkey: Crosby led Penguins down drain
Don't let that little front-office earthquake distract you from the primary reason the Penguins are not participating in the Eastern Conference final.
The primary reason is Sidney Crosby, whose leadership never has been more in question.
If you didn't know better, you'd be looking for blood on Crosby's hands in the wake of Ray Shero's beheading and the pending demise of Dan Bylsma. You'd think he tried to orchestrate the palace coup.
Set aside, for a moment, Crosby's paltry playoff numbers. This is bigger than that. It's about the way he comported himself.
It's about the mysteriously early exits from power plays, the drifting to the bench in the middle of shifts, the uncharacteristic snapping at the coach and the perpetually blank look on his face.
If we find out he was badly injured, different story. But there is no evidence of that. The evidence suggests Crosby was unhappy and wanted the world to know it.
There are some who can't help but make excuses for Crosby. Sid's Sycophants. They have pitted him against Evgeni Malkin since the latter arrived, always favoring Sid.
You know what you'll get every night from Sid, they'd say. But Geno? Geno's too unpredictable. Geno at his worst evokes the shadowy side of Jaromir Jagr.
Yeah, that's it: Sid is Mario; Geno is Jagr.
Well, who looked like the moody, easily frustrated, coach-killer version of Jagr in these playoffs? And who looked more like Lemieux, laying it on the line in Game 7 and putting up a conference-leading point total through two series?
Imagine if Crosby were leading the conference in scoring and Malkin had one goal in his past 18 playoff games. Do you think the Sycophants would be finding excuses for Malkin?
More likely they'd be hanging him in effigy in Market Square.
One thing we never heard from Crosby during these playoffs was an unprompted, unqualified statement of personal responsibility.
A leader's first commandment is to personally and publicly accept blame even when he is not at fault but especially when he is. It tends to play well in locker rooms.
But in the midst of his hideous playoff, Crosby never said anything like this: “Put it on me. I'm the captain. I'm not getting it done.”
Instead, the best he could muster after his wretched Game 2 against Columbus was, “We've got to be better.”
We?
On locker clean-out day, a defensive Crosby said, “Obviously, I would have liked to score more and contribute more. But it wasn't from a lack of effort.”
OK. But when I watched Game 7, I couldn't help but notice that Malkin practically poured his soul onto the ice while Crosby often skirted the perimeter.
Did it look to you like Crosby brought every ounce of his hockey being to Game 7?
The captain also said, “I'd love to tear it up every series, but it doesn't always happen.”
Nobody's demanding that Crosby “tear it up every series.” How about just showing up as a leader of men?
The Sycophants' excuses never end. They'll tell you the Penguins have wasted the past four years of Crosby's career.
That's a lie. The Penguins had Cup-capable rosters in 2010, '12 and '13 and were certainly as good as the Rangers or Canadiens this year. If their best player hadn't failed them, they'd be playing another flawed team in the Canadiens right now.
The weak-wingers complaint needs to die, too. The Penguins offered Marian Hossa $50 million and a guaranteed spot next to Crosby for the prime of his career. Hossa couldn't get out of town fast enough. They brought in Jarome Iginla. Crosby preferred Pascal Dupuis.
The line of Crosby, Dupuis and Chris Kunitz was highly productive. Crosby enjoyed playing with them. So the Penguins shelled out $26.5 million to keep both.
Yeah, poor Sid.
Feel free to hide your eyes before we look at how Crosby has fared in his past four season-ending games” Montreal Game 7 in 2010, Philly Game 6 in '12, Boston Game 4 in '13 and Rangers Game 7.
In those four games, the Penguins' best player totaled zero goals, zero assists and a minus-6 (still checking on his Corsi rating).
So go ahead and be distracted by the ongoing palace coup at 1001 Fifth Ave. It's pretty riveting stuff.
Just know that the Penguins should still be playing.
Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/6101920-74/crosby-penguins-game#ixzz326mjcZzU
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook
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I thought trading Crosby and Malkin to acquire young, inexpensive talent was the way to go?
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I don't live in Pittsburgh so I'm not aware of the local Pens culture. However Sid played horribly this post season. Something was wrong. Not sure what it was but something was terribly wrong. Malkin out played him big time. I was very impressed with his hustle and drive. Something has to change and quickly.
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Who said that? Certainly not me. I am not a fan of Sid's performance this playoff year, but I cannot see trading him or Malkin. Take Sid off this team, keep the rest in tact and replace Sid with anyone else. My money says they likely miss the playoffs altogether. This team wasn't going to win it all, and to put it all on any one player is ludicrous. This team sucked *** on the ice whether Sid's line was on or not. I have seen monkey **** fights that were more organized. Yeah, Sid could and should have been better. But you could see something was wrong from game one of the Columbus series. Sure would like the truth on what the hell happened.
I happen to think that Sid was unhappy with his supporting cast. Opponents beating on him, and nobody coming to his rescue. Lee Stempniak brought in to be his winger. My feelings are that he said **** it, why should I bust my balls for a team satisfied with a mediocre roster. Goodbye Ray Shero.
Guy went from being the top scorer in the regular season to not doing squat in the playoffs. I don't get it.
But....if you read the article it seems that he has under performed in series deciding games in the PO's pretty consistently. Is he going to be a baby about his supporting cast forever? Even if it turns out that he is hurt or has some horrible personal issue he's dealing with that doesn't extend to or excuse the PO's of 10 or 12 if in fact he did show poorly the as well.........
Do I want him traded? Of course not. Never said that......but I have repeatedly pointed out what I believe to be his lack of leadership skills. Hell after one of the NY games I facetiously (sort of) said that DD should strip his C and give it to Gibbons. I don't think he's matured and I am starting to see some of the Jagrish traits. If they are there and he doesn't get his mind right you could get rid of everyone including the ticket takers at Consol and it won't matter. I really and truly hope I'm completely wrong.
True, but in years past, his lack of results were not due to lack of trying. This year, I can't say the same. Then there was that alleged comment that he didn't feel that this team was capable of a Cup run. Then Shero is replaced. I don't know for sure, but something changed.
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I'm not sure what any other GM would have done better. This team was packed with so much offensive talent. Half the centers and wingers on the roster could go to any other team in the NHL and be their top offensive guy. I mean, we had the luxury of putting TWO legitimate NHL superstars and probably future hall-of-famers on the same line and STILL have at least two other 30-goal-scorers on other lines. The defense we have aren't the best in the world, but should have been enough to win a Cup this year. What is Sid missing? Would we have been that much better off trading away James Neal and/or Jussi Jokkinen to get a couple of goons to beat up anyone that looks sideways at Sid? If that's what his late-season/post-season collapse was all about, I'd tell him to grow a set of balls if he wants to play hockey in a man's league.