Lets talk Defensive scheme....answer a question?

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Even with the increased ease of passing, tackle the catch is still a good philosophy. If you can force quick passes, then it is still hard to keep moving the chains like that.

The problem is the steelers have no pass rush, so the QB has more time and those 3 yard completions now become 6 yard completions. That means 2 completions move the chains instead of 3 completions and now the offense has a margin for error.

I don't care who is the DC, there is no scheme that can work with no pass rush and no top DBs. There is only 2 ways to stop an offense. With pressure or with coverage. If you get lots of pressure, you can get by with mediocre DBs. If you have great coverage players, then you can afford riskier blitzes.

There is literally NOTHING Lebeau can do if the front 7 can't win individual matchups. That means he has to blitz (rush 6 or more) just to get pressure and that leaves the poor secondary exposed.

Mike Mitchell is playing like a rookie. Cortez looks like he's afraid to make a mistake instead of trying to make plays. Gay is doing an OK job but that's about it. Troy is trying to do too much to compensate.

 

[Vader]

Dallas is playing zone, but with defenders pressing the short routes. That is why their LB'er, #54, has batted down 2 passes himself in the 1st half - 2 more than the entire Steelers defense did in the game against a ****** Tampa QB. Dallas defenders batted down 3-4 balls in the 1st half.

A team does not do that with "soft" coverage.

Zone is zone. It doesn't look soft because the Saints are running into the coverage. BUT if they sit down it would look more soft. Brees is around 6' and has had a ton of passes batted down over the years. Those batted passes are coming from a LB sitting in his zone coverage.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Part I don't get is why it is supposedly so complex that they can't insert an athlete like Tuit into it. This team needs athletes. Take your gap and run people down. To play real quick you can't be thinking all the time.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

Even with the increased ease of passing, tackle the catch is still a good philosophy. If you can force quick passes, then it is still hard to keep moving the chains like that.

The problem is the steelers have no pass rush, so the QB has more time and those 3 yard completions now become 6 yard completions. That means 2 completions move the chains instead of 3 completions and now the offense has a margin for error.

Its hard to get home with any pressure when you have to get there in 2.1 seconds cuz the ball is coming out before you can get there. You can't have both. You either play a defense with the intention of wanting the QB to get rid of the ball quick or you play defense that will rely on blitzing to force a hurried throw. But to do the later you have to eliminate the easy throws with coverage. Its pretty simple.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

It is, and you should.

We all remember the 2010 ***-kicking of the Patsies at Heinz. Remember how the Steelers defensive backs pressed the Patsy receivers the entire game, and Brady looked like he was going to cry?

So that worked so well, the next time they played, last year, the Steelers played 7 yards off the receivers. That brilliant scheme held the Patsies to a mere 55 points and 610 yards.

Hey, if it ain't broke (broke being defined as giving up more than 60 points and 700 yards in one ******* game), why fix it?

I am totally on board with you here. Thats my point.

 

[Steeltime]

Zone is zone. It doesn't look soft because the Saints are running into the coverage. BUT if they sit down it would look more soft. Brees is around 6' and has had a ton of passes batted down over the years. Those batted passes are coming from a LB sitting in his zone coverage.

No, not batted down at the LOS - batted down right at the spot where the receiver is.

No way the defense is batting down passes right in the area of the receiver with "soft" coverage. They are playing a very good zone - eyes on the QB, keeping close to the receivers, looking to bat down or pick off the passes.

My point, once again, is that the Steelers defenders never know where the ball is. How many times per game do we see the defender 1' from the pass receiver, but making zero effort to knock down or pick off the pass? 10? 12? More?

Other teams have the defenders going after the ball in the air. The Steelers don't.

 

[SteelerSask2]

You can't be strong everywhere. Unless you hit a ton of home runs with late picks and or find hidden gems in. Undated Free agency. The steelers have invested in linebackers. The investment hasn't payed off and they have put nothing into secondary. It shows.

 

[Steeltime]

I am totally on board with you here. Thats my point.

I also believe that the Steelers defensive backs need to challenge receivers at the LOS much, much more. 100% agreement.

But when they are playing off a few yards in zone, how about MAKING A @#$&ING PLAY ON THE BALL??

That's the entire goddam reason for zone - the defender can keep his eyes on the QB and go after the ball.

 

[Vader]

No, not batted down at the LOS - batted down right at the spot where the receiver is.

No way the defense is batting down passes right in the area of the receiver with "soft" coverage. They are playing a very good zone - eyes on the QB, keeping close to the receivers, looking to bat down or pick off the passes.

My point, once again, is that the Steelers defenders never know where the ball is. How many times per game do we see the defender 1' from the pass receiver, but making zero effort to knock down or pick off the pass? 10? 12? More?

Other teams have the defenders going after the ball in the air. The Steelers don't.

ALL zone coverages look at the QB. I never said they were batted at the LOS. Brees is short so he has trouble seeing over his OL. So at times the WRs run across the zone and find themselves covered. It's like a picketed fence. Dallas is pressing the outside WRs and playing zone in the middle.

When you watch the Steelers you have soft coverages but not a soft zone. Their CBs are not playing zone. They are playing off man. They are giving a cushion but not playing a zone. They even play man with their LBs at times. You'll see Timmons man to man with a TE. That's not zone.

The problem is that the Steelers don't have anyone that can man up on the outside. They also have no one to rush the QB. There is literally nothing Dick can do.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

I also believe that the Steelers defensive backs need to challenge receivers at the LOS much, much more. 100% agreement.

But when they are playing off a few yards in zone, how about MAKING A @#$&ING PLAY ON THE BALL??

That's the entire goddam reason for zone - the defender can keep his eyes on the QB and go after the ball.

totally agree! Its like they take the " tackle the catch" literally, like they aren't allowed to make a play until the catch. Its a passive approach and its one that in highly unsuccessful. BTW, that helps define the reason we don't get more than 3 turnovers a month. We have to hope for fumbles lol

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

pressing the WRs won't work without pressure. We don't have man cover CBs. By making them press, then you are already forcing them out of their comfort zone. Then what happens when the WR beats that press? Now you have our subpar coverage DBs chasing an open WR. Now you are risking long completions instead of short ones.

Press coverage only works if you get get immediate pressure that forces a quick throw, or if you have great cover guys who can run with the WR after they beat the press.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

You have to risk a little to get rewarded a lot sometimes.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

pressing the WRs won't work without pressure. We don't have man cover CBs. By making them press, then you are already forcing them out of their comfort zone. Then what happens when the WR beats that press? Now you have our subpar coverage DBs chasing an open WR. Now you are risking long completions instead of short ones.

Press coverage only works if you get get immediate pressure that forces a quick throw, or if you have great cover guys who can run with the WR after they beat the press.

I agree.....I just wish they would take that chance every now and then on 3rd and 7......give the front 7 a chance to force a below average quarterback to make an accurate throw downfield under duress. Quit bailing him out with an easy throw.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

You have to risk a little to get rewarded a lot sometimes.

What reward? NFL WRs can beat press coverage. It just delays them for a step or 2. That delay will cause a sack if you have a good pass rush. But the steelers have a terrible pass rush. So press coverage just means the QB hold the ball and additional second and throws to a wide open WR.

Which steeler DB do you feel confident in man coverage with any decent NFL wr?

 

[Steeltime]

When you watch the Steelers you have soft coverages but not a soft zone. Their CBs are not playing zone. They are playing off man. They are giving a cushion but not playing a zone.

Okay, I see your point. I had believed that they are playing zone when they send pressure, and have the safeties back to assist the CB's.

I am not at the games and don't have a view of the safeties when the play unfolds, but I presume that playing 7 yards off is to give the receiver the short zone, cover middle zone, and have the safety take care of deep zone.

If they are playing man coverage, and playing 7 yards off the receiver, then ... well, @#$% that is just sad. Man coverage, basically conceding 7 yards and one broken tackle from a 15-yard gain.

What could go wrong?

 

[Ward4HOF]

Even with the increased ease of passing, tackle the catch is still a good philosophy. If you can force quick passes, then it is still hard to keep moving the chains like that.

The problem is the steelers have no pass rush, so the QB has more time and those 3 yard completions now become 6 yard completions. That means 2 completions move the chains instead of 3 completions and now the offense has a margin for error.

I don't care who is the DC, there is no scheme that can work with no pass rush and no top DBs. There is only 2 ways to stop an offense. With pressure or with coverage. If you get lots of pressure, you can get by with mediocre DBs. If you have great coverage players, then you can afford riskier blitzes.

There is literally NOTHING Lebeau can do if the front 7 can't win individual matchups. That means he has to blitz (rush 6 or more) just to get pressure and that leaves the poor secondary exposed.

Mike Mitchell is playing like a rookie. Cortez looks like he's afraid to make a mistake instead of trying to make plays. Gay is doing an OK job but that's about it. Troy is trying to do too much to compensate.

Well said!

 

[Wingman]

We were not a great defense even with the #1 ranking a few years ago, went 8-8 and missed the playoffs and lost many late game leads. I agree with you about the drafting of ill fitting players but the league has changed and playing a soft zone behind a blitz doesn't work anymore. All the sophisticated blitzes and coverages are a mirage in the easy pitch and catch 5 yard passes that are open all the time.

A number one defense is very good. one of the reasons we have been 8 and 8 is the failure of the offense to put up points. In the modern game if you do not score 28 points a game you are not as likely to win In the last game they played had the offense scored they would have won the game. 24 points will not do it now.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

What reward? NFL WRs can beat press coverage. It just delays them for a step or 2. That delay will cause a sack if you have a good pass rush. But the steelers have a terrible pass rush. So press coverage just means the QB hold the ball and additional second and throws to a wide open WR.

Which steeler DB do you feel confident in man coverage with any decent NFL wr?

I didn't see much of Glennon sitting there and having all day to throw. I feel we were getting decent pressure at times but there were easy throws to allow Glennon to get out of a sack when he felt some heat. As far as which Steeler DB I would want to play press, that I couldn't answer because I have never seen any of them do it much. So your telling me you are a NFL caliber corner and you can't play press at all???? If thats the case then the Steelers have way bigger issues than whats on the field.

 

[Vader]

Okay, I see your point. I had believed that they are playing zone when they send pressure, and have the safeties back to assist the CB's.

I am not at the games and don't have a view of the safeties when the play unfolds, but I presume that playing 7 yards off is to give the receiver the short zone, cover middle zone, and have the safety take care of deep zone.

If they are playing man coverage, and playing 7 yards off the receiver, then ... well, @#$% that is just sad. Man coverage, basically conceding 7 yards and one broken tackle from a 15-yard gain.

What could go wrong?

Right. They've been playing that for years now. They don't want to get beat deep. So they play man coverage on the outsides with a 5-10 yard cushion. They almost always have to do that because they don't have good press coverage CBs. When you have great OLBs, DL and safety play then your CBs can be average because the QB never has time to go deep. It breaks down when you have average OLBs and average DLs. The QB has all day to throw.

 

[Steeltime]

Right. They've been playing that for years now. They don't want to get beat deep. So they play man coverage on the outsides with a 5-10 yard cushion. They almost always have to do that because they don't have good press coverage CBs. When you have great OLBs, DL and safety play then your CBs can be average because the QB never has time to go deep. It breaks down when you have average OLBs and average DLs. The QB has all day to throw.

Is the Steelers off-man coverage going to be known as "**** off, man" from now on?

 

[Vader]

I didn't see much of Glennon sitting there and having all day to throw. I feel we were getting decent pressure at times but there were easy throws to allow Glennon to get out of a sack when he felt some heat. As far as which Steeler DB I would want to play press, that I couldn't answer because I have never seen any of them do it much. So your telling me you are a NFL caliber corner and you can't play press at all???? If thats the case then the Steelers have way bigger issues than whats on the field.

You're not going to find good press CBs late in the draft. Allen is a 4th round pick. Blake is undrafted. Gay is a 5th round pick. Just like most other positions, you can't get great players when you don't draft many at that position and when you do draft them they are very low picks.

 

[Vader]

Is the Steelers off-man coverage going to be known as "**** off, man" from now on?

haha might as well be.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I didn't see much of Glennon sitting there and having all day to throw. I feel we were getting decent pressure at times but there were easy throws to allow Glennon to get out of a sack when he felt some heat. As far as which Steeler DB I would want to play press, that I couldn't answer because I have never seen any of them do it much. So your telling me you are a NFL caliber corner and you can't play press at all???? If thats the case then the Steelers have way bigger issues than whats on the field.

That's the point i'm making. This isn't on Lebeau. This isn't a scheme issue. This is a lack of talent issue. The only way this gets better is of Moats and Worilds start playing like Harrison and Woodley, MIke MItchell stops playing like an *******, Cortez starts playing like his paycheck says. and everybody stops with the penalties.

Now consider that the steelers used 3rd round picks on a backup QB (who sucks) and a tiny gadget player.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

"Now consider that the steelers used 3rd round picks on a backup QB (who sucks) and a tiny gadget player.[/QUOTE]

Yeah totally agree. Thats abysmal

 

[stuntmanmike]

It's on lebeau and completely on him! you have line up at some point and hit someone... The bend don't break suks ****. Put tuitt keisel Thomas iron head 2 on the line and in the words of cowher " just rush the quarterback!" And then rush the Fuking passer THEN with a blitz we could easily pressure on the qb. What we have right now is ****. Lebeau isn't going let go of his teddy bear