Lets talk Defensive scheme....answer a question?

[F83]

maybe if shazier and jones were in they could of got to the qb or on the 3-22 pass to the 22 Shazier would of broken or picked off that pass.

the blitzes are beyond predictable

 

[Idioteque]

That's the point i'm making. This isn't on Lebeau. This isn't a scheme issue. This is a lack of talent issue. The only way this gets better is of Moats and Worilds start playing like Harrison and Woodley, MIke MItchell stops playing like an *******, Cortez starts playing like his paycheck says. and everybody stops with the penalties.

Now consider that the steelers used 3rd round picks on a backup QB (who sucks) and a tiny gadget player.

It's both. Tackle-the-catch can be a solid philosophy but our cushions are ridiculous. We routinely give 8-15 yards to every outside receiver on most snaps, be it Calvin Johnson or the slowest, least athletic WR on earth. 3rd-and-10 with miles and miles of film telling us exactly which route will be run, and boom, we sit 12 yards off the WRs and still backpedal at the snap. No chance whatsoever to break on the throw. Just hope the QB will stumble into pressure and/or the WR will run into a crowd after the uncontested catch.

And to run tackle-the-catch as a base philosophy like we do, you don't just need talent - you need overwhelming talent. Two dynamic outside rushers plus a collapsing d-line plus LBs who can cover the flats and cross/slant routes. Aaron-Casey-Keisel-Harrison-Farrior-Timmons-Woodley was the prototype and quality like that gets assembled every 15 years, if that. To run LeBeau's scheme to success, you need to be nailing EVERY defensive pick and locking down EVERY front-seven position. Really no margin for error.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Sorry but I don't buy it. The Steelers defense was #1 in yards just 2 years ago. They were also #6 in points scored that year. Before that they were #1 in points and yards for several years. The rules haven't changed much at all in the past 2 years. What's changed is that they have drafted 4-3 type players that don't fit the system. Now they can't get to the QB and can't cover anyone. Hell Tombert has such disdain for CBs that they'd rather draft a midget part time KR than take a chance on a starting CB.

C'mon Man, you know as well as I do that the defensive rankings two years ago (8-8) and the year of the Great Tebow Debacle were smoke and mirrors. They were carved up in the pass game and teams didn't feel a need to try to run against them because the short passing game was (and is) working so well. We see the same **** week after week. Ten yard cushion allows a slant play to go for 20 or more yards at the worst possible time and throws deep to a 6-2 or taller WR. At the beginning of the year teams were running rampant over this defense. I think they've remembered that they don't have to run at all because DL's defense is going to give your receivers a 10 yard cushion and the DBs are a bunch of has beens and never weres.
The schemes suck and have for years. The players suck. The combination is putrid.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

anyone remember the CB blitz?

CB? Blitz? We haven't seen a good one of either one of those around here recently; and you want to combine them both? Blasphemy, sheer blasphemy.

 

[Vader]

C'mon Man, you know as well as I do that the defensive rankings two years ago (8-8) and the year of the Great Tebow Debacle were smoke and mirrors. They were carved up in the pass game and teams didn't feel a need to try to run against them because the short passing game was (and is) working so well. We see the same **** week after week. Ten yard cushion allows a slant play to go for 20 or more yards at the worst possible time and throws deep to a 6-2 or taller WR. At the beginning of the year teams were running rampant over this defense. I think they've remembered that they don't have to run at all because DL's defense is going to give your receivers a 10 yard cushion and the DBs are a bunch of has beens and never weres.
The schemes suck and have for years. The players suck. The combination is putrid.

No they weren't carved up in the passing game. They were #1 against passing yards. So show me the stat the proves your point of them being carved up. I understand you have a point and want to drive it home. But at least get your facts straight. That defense only gave up 14 PPG.

 

[Steelerfan]

anyone remember the CB blitz?

****, remember when Troy blitzed? The opposing team had to account for him every damn play since they never knew where he was coming from. Ahhh, those were the days.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I tend to think the issues are much more personnel than schematic.

The 3-4/cover 3 scheme doesn't work without the OLBs consistently hitting the QB, generating sacks/fumbles and errant throws. There was a reason why the defense performed somewhat better in the second half of last season when Worlids was being disruptive and consistently getting to the QB, but unfortunately, he was reverted back to his pre-2013 invisible form.

Also, when employing the tackle the catch philosophy, you have to actually tackle the ******* catch. A huge part of the problem is the Steelers being so slow in the secondary that receivers are finding room to generate tons of YAC yards. We rarely saw that when Polamalu, Taylor and Clark were in their primes.

 

[Idioteque]

No they weren't carved up in the passing game. They were #1 against passing yards. So show me the stat the proves your point of them being carved up. I understand you have a point and want to drive it home. But at least get your facts straight. That defense only gave up 14 PPG.

The numbers were a bit misleading; I can't really consider that a solid pass D. (After all, we had finished 1st in 2011, too, but got torn apart by Tebow/Eddie Royal/Daniel Fells in the playoffs.) We achieved those rankings by feasting on bad QBs but got burned by just about all of the good ones. In 2012, we destroyed Sanchez, Cassel, Gabbert, Dalton, Weeden twice, Flacco twice. We were taken to the woodshed by good QBs (Peyton, Rivers, Romo), and even the mediocre ones had some success. Palmer, Vick, and Dalton had solid-to-good games, and Hasselbeck threw for 290 and beat us. Late in the year with the season on the line, we were carved apart by Rivers and Romo, then got burned for big long completions late in the Dallas and Cincy games to ice our season.

As another poster said earlier, it was about situational football. The pass D fell apart against good passers, good gameplans, late in games, late in the season, etc. Have you ever truly trusted our pass defense over the last several years? I sure haven't, not even in 2008. I knew how leaky they could be and Fitz's SB touchdown didn't make me bat an eye; I had figured it was coming.

I get your point and it's a good one; talent is the primary issue, and the scheme we run CAN work (hell, it did for years) with perfect personnel. But those #1 finishes were very misleading. Decent or better QBs had their way with us while we padded our stats against turds. We played Dalton, Weeden/[insert any Stain QB], and Flacco twice a year. Outside the division, we feasted on (some of) the crappy QBs we faced. When we faced a worthwhile one, we typically got worked over. I could set my watch by it; when we played Brady/Brees/Peyton/Rodgers, you could write 28/38 for 360 and 4 TDs in permanent ink.

 

[Idioteque]

Also, when employing the tackle the catch philosophy, you have to actually tackler the ******* catch. A huge part of the problem is the Steelers being so slow in the secondary that receivers are finding room to generate tons of YAC yards. We rarely saw that when Polamalu, Taylor and Clark were in their primes.

Yup. Poor tackling, too. Cortez is made of rubber and Mitchell is a hitter first and second, a tackler third. And tackling has always been Troy's weakness.

 

[Coryea]

We tried everything yesterday, press/playing off, every kind of blitz, nothing worked. Look at tampa, their front 4 was winning one on one battles all day.

 

[TDX27]

Penalties on D aside, we seemed to get decent pressure last night. Every time, as was stated, he still winged the ball out just before getting hit and had a wide open receiver. I don't know if we were in prevent behind our front line and they had a 20 yard cushion or what. Their receivers always seemed open even with pressure on the QB. We need to bump receivers as much as possible at the line. Disrupt their timing and then hope the pressure we were getting will work in the future.

 

[Vader]

The numbers were a bit misleading; I can't really consider that a solid pass D. (After all, we had finished 1st in 2011, too, but got torn apart by Tebow/Eddie Royal/Daniel Fells in the playoffs.) We achieved those rankings by feasting on bad QBs but got burned by just about all of the good ones. In 2012, we destroyed Sanchez, Cassel, Gabbert, Dalton, Weeden twice, Flacco twice. We were taken to the woodshed by good QBs (Peyton, Rivers, Romo), and even the mediocre ones had some success. Palmer, Vick, and Dalton had solid-to-good games, and Hasselbeck threw for 290 and beat us. Late in the year with the season on the line, we were carved apart by Rivers and Romo, then got burned for big long completions late in the Dallas and Cincy games to ice our season.

As another poster said earlier, it was about situational football. The pass D fell apart against good passers, good gameplans, late in games, late in the season, etc. Have you ever truly trusted our pass defense over the last several years? I sure haven't, not even in 2008. I knew how leaky they could be and Fitz's SB touchdown didn't make me bat an eye; I had figured it was coming.

I get your point and it's a good one; talent is the primary issue, and the scheme we run CAN work (hell, it did for years) with perfect personnel. But those #1 finishes were very misleading. Decent or better QBs had their way with us while we padded our stats against turds. We played Dalton, Weeden/[insert any Stain QB], and Flacco twice a year. Outside the division, we feasted on (some of) the crappy QBs we faced. When we faced a worthwhile one, we typically got worked over. I could set my watch by it; when we played Brady/Brees/Peyton/Rodgers, you could write 28/38 for 360 and 4 TDs in permanent ink.

But that's just it. Every team has the same issues. No team has a great game against Manning, Brees, or Brady. Even the Seahawks at home last week got hammered by Manning. The week before they got hammered by Rivers. This is why there are elite QBs in the game. No defense is going to shut them down totally. In 2008 the defense won games all by themselves. But since the departure of Cowher's players the new guys aren't getting it done. In this day and age of the new NFL you better score some points. No defense can hold a team to 14 points any more. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[stuntmanmike]

I tend to think the issues are much more personnel than schematic.

The 3-4/cover 3 scheme doesn't work without the OLBs consistently hitting the QB, generating sacks/fumbles and errant throws. There was a reason why the defense performed somewhat better in the second half of last season when Worlids was being disruptive and consistently getting to the QB, but unfortunately, he was reverted back to his pre-2013 invisible form.

Also, when employing the tackle the catch philosophy, you have to actually tackle the ******* catch. A huge part of the problem is the Steelers being so slow in the secondary that receivers are finding room to generate tons of YAC yards. We rarely saw that when Polamalu, Taylor and Clark were in their primes.

I think most teams running our version of the three-four zone blitz is having problems, pack, red shins. the no huddle, quick throw, trap run, spread zone blocking schemes were hatched to defeat the steeler zone blitz... And they are... Shanahan over in cleveland ran over us like we weren't there with rookies. Time to change.

 

[Nasty95Resilient86]

It's both. Tackle-the-catch can be a solid philosophy but our cushions are ridiculous. We routinely give 8-15 yards to every outside receiver on most snaps, be it Calvin Johnson or the slowest, least athletic WR on earth. 3rd-and-10 with miles and miles of film telling us exactly which route will be run, and boom, WE SIT 12 YARDS OFF THE WRS AND STILL BACKPEDAL AT THE SNAP. No chance whatsoever to break on the throw. Just hope the QB will stumble into pressure and/or the WR will run into a crowd after the uncontested catch.

And to run tackle-the-catch as a base philosophy like we do, you don't just need talent - you need overwhelming talent. Two dynamic outside rushers plus a collapsing d-line plus LBs who can cover the flats and cross/slant routes. Aaron-Casey-Keisel-Harrison-Farrior-Timmons-Woodley was the prototype and quality like that gets assembled every 15 years, if that. To run LeBeau's scheme to success, you need to be nailing EVERY defensive pick and locking down EVERY front-seven position. Really no margin for error.

yes, yes, yes. Its like trying to plug a square peg in a round hole. Great post.