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London terrorist attack.

This sums it up for me:

8AbV5H9.jpg


This is London in 1993 after an IRA truck bomb. We didn't ban Irish people or Catholics, we understood it was just a small group of ****s.
I would have considered closing the border until that **** stopped.
 
As an aside, I'm mostly right wing in my views. I'm for greater immigration controls and a lot of other stuff but this travesty was carried out by a 52 year old Brit who wasn't on anyone's watch list.

Not quite. "Was he on MI5's radar?

He was known to the authorities and had come under the radar of MI5 some years ago as a "peripheral" figure in a terrorism investigation, Theresa May told MPs on Thursday."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/24/khalid-masood-everything-know-london-attacker/

The guy had a violent past, converted to Islam in 2005, became a mass murderer 12 years later. He was not under active investigation at the time of the attack, that much is true, but the guy is basically the template for somebody who is going to go nuts and murder.

Whether we like it or not we are a multi- cultural society. It's part of the British Empire's heritage and history. I personally know far too many British Asians to tar everyone with the same brush. We just have to get smarter about protecting ourselves.

Multi-cultural has nothing to do with this. The issue is that far too many members of one culture - Islam - believe that other cultures - Western, Christian, Jewish, pretty much all others - are beneath them and not deserving of respect. More to the point, far too many members of the Islam faith believe that women who show their legs and cleavage are asking to be raped, that non-Muslims are the enemy and their lives have little value until they convert to Islam. The incidences of violence, and murder, and rape in Western Europe are undeniable.

Also, immigrants in Western Europe from Somolia and Yeman and Syria do not integrate. They have set up their own neighborhoods, many of which are off limits to "foreigners" - that is, the actual natives.

"The study, named “immigrant worlds in Germany 2016,” looks at migrants within the major cities and municipalities of the country shows that many migrant groups are choosing to isolate themselves rather than establish links with those of other backgrounds. Bernd Hallenberg, who works for the VHW, said, “The migrant milieus are developing apart,” noting that many migrant communities retreat into themselves on a social and cultural level.

The study shows a trend of migrants, who once saw themselves as Germans, identifying more with the ethnic and cultural background of their origin. A similar study was carried out in 2008 by the VHW that when compared to the current study shows a large shift toward isolation, rather than integration
."

2016, Die Welt.

When immigrants flooded the United States in the 19th century, they did what immigrants always do - grouped together. That is why New York had its Italian neighborhoods, Irish neighborhoods, etc. However, those immigrants did not view themselves as still Italians first, or Irish first - they were Americans. Within a generation, these immigrants and their children were part of the United States, and viewed this country as their own.

That is not happening with a very large percentage of Islam immigrants to Western Europe, who instead are isolated, closed off from the nations they have moved to, and who exhibit stronger allegiance to their native countries than to their new home.
 
Slaine, this guy was no longer a Brit. He chose Islam, and the Islamic State, over his allegiance to Great Britain. The question becomes how many others will side with Islam over Britain.

When interviewed, 4 out of 5 Somali refugees in Minneapolis will say they side with Sharia over the US Constitution. These are not Americans, in my opinion. They are merely Somalis, taking advantage of American generosity. If this is multiculturalism, then you can have it. I don't want it.
Until Islam is reformed, I want less of it here. You can have it. Hungary can gave it too. I see Tibs is back. Until then, I side with the Brits........ the true Brits.

This is well argued.

A conservative politician called Norman Tebbit once suggested the Cricket Test - would an Indian/Pakistani etc immigrant support England if they were playing their original country. It sounds pretty tame but he got lambasted as a racist. I think he had a great idea.

My own belief is that immigrants should learn to speak English. They should not expect to be able to wear their cultures clothes (hijab etc) when they go to UK government jobs. They should not expect all our government documents to be available in their languages. They should make an effort to integrate into British society.

I am not personally religious. I honestly don't care what religion people practice so long as it doesn't preach hate or break the law. Islam is a peaceful religion. So is Christianity. Based on current events back through to the crusades you wouldn't believe it of either of them. The atrocities carried out in the name of religion are unspeakable. Religion in my opinion is not the issue here. It is the teachings of people that hate anything different from themselves and their way of life and use religion as a vehicle.

The truth is that in Britain we have been brought up to be tolerant and embrace others because of the commonwealth. It has made the country better and stronger though it has not been easy. Our culture, music and food is the better for it. But it has taken time. Ask the West Indians fresh off the boat in the 50s what their welcome was like - it was not pretty.

But nearly seventy years on we are, generally speaking, a well integrated society.

We have had seventy plus years to get used to this - three generations. Most immigrants have not. They are arriving from Syria/Romania/Afghanistan/Pakistan etc and have our culture hit them between the eyes. Understandably they retreat into what they know and form little enclaves where they can speak their language and buy food that they understand. This should not be allowed to happen.

We should never have let the majority of these people into the country in the first place. We should have a reasonable citizenship test. They should have a job lined up. They should be able to speak English. But we live in an age of political correctness. We are where we are and we need to deal with it.

For the most part we have proved that multi-culturalism can work. But only where there is integration. If you want to live as if you are still an Indian living in India then you should go back and live in India. The same for any of these countries. If you want to take advantage of our opportunities then do so as a British person.

I supported Brexit and people scoffed at me. The liberal media use it as their punchbag. But the first step is restricting immigration. We need skilled people. We don't need their wives, cousins, sisters and brothers.

Sorry to ramble but there is so much that we can take from controlled immigration. Banning everyone is not the answer.
 
Thing is, you never see Presbyterians or Lutherans flip out and start killing people in the name of their religion. Or demand that people who do not belong to their religion obey their religious rules. Only people who belong to one specific religion do that.

Except for the IRA and Centenial Park. Granted it's not nearly as prevalent (anymore) but no one religion has a monopoly on crazy. Try to explain Spotlight.
 
Except for the IRA and Centenial Park. Granted it's not nearly as prevalent (anymore) but no one religion has a monopoly on crazy. Try to explain Spotlight.

Currently one religion does have a monopoly on crazy.
 
This sums it up for me:

8AbV5H9.jpg


This is London in 1993 after an IRA truck bomb. We didn't ban Irish people or Catholics, we understood it was just a small group of ****s.

But you didn't pretend like they didn't exist either. And I'd bet Coolies sweet, sweet *** that the cops and border folks looked at Irish folks a hell of a lot closer than other and didn't give a **** whether anyone was offended or not.
 
If you want to live as if you are still an Indian living in India then you should go back and live in India. The same for any of these countries. If you want to take advantage of our opportunities then do so as a British person.

Bingo. Well said.
 
We have had seventy plus years to get used to this - three generations. Most immigrants have not. They are arriving from Syria/Romania/Afghanistan/Pakistan etc and have our culture hit them between the eyes. Understandably they retreat into what they know and form little enclaves where they can speak their language and buy food that they understand. This should not be allowed to happen.

We should never have let the majority of these people into the country in the first place. We should have a reasonable citizenship test. They should have a job lined up. They should be able to speak English. But we live in an age of political correctness. We are where we are and we need to deal with it.

For the most part we have proved that multi-culturalism can work. But only where there is integration. If you want to live as if you are still an Indian living in India then you should go back and live in India.

This is 180 degrees opposite what the Labour Party (see how I spelled that?) and the Democrat Party believe and extol.

Seriously, no sentient being can argue to the contrary.

And THAT is the dispute. Allowing immigrants who do NOT respect the host nation's culture, and language, and religions, and dress.

Like a ****-ton Muslims in London.
 
This sums it up for me:

8AbV5H9.jpg


This is London in 1993 after an IRA truck bomb. We didn't ban Irish people or Catholics, we understood it was just a small group of ****s.
You are offering this as evidence of effective homeland security policy?
 
It's like having your throat cut and you handed the killer the knife to do it.
 
I think there is a real problem with how we are conditioned based on our history of how every other immigrant group has come and assimilated into this country and whether that stands up to Muslims.

Liberals will say there is no difference. The Muslim is no different from the German, the Irishman, the Russian Orthodox, the Jew, the Mexican. To them, they are all the same. Same issues, same resistance, for the same reasons, from the same prejudices, from the same backward view.

But I'm not so sure they are the same. I really try to keep an open mind. I do. I'm not religious. I'm probably a deist or agnostic or atheist - it varies on how many beers I have. But I am very concerned at Islam as a religion. When you study it's history, there is just so much violence. And not just violence like America has violence. Or Europe has violence. The violence was "in the name of Muhammad". I mean, I was just bored at work today and was reading up on the history of mankind (which I find fascinating) and was reading about Greece and when it was civilized and it's history.

So I'm reading about Greece and you get to it's occupation and control of the Ottoman empire from about 1400-1800 A.D. and it's revolution in 1821. You want to talk about some medieval ****? Read about that war. Read about how the Arabs hung the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church on Easter Sunday. Read about how the Arabs went into the Town of Smyrna and wiped out everyone - man, woman, child. How the Arabs stoned their own priest when he wouldn't issue a Fatwa against the Greek uprising.

Something isn't right with that religion. And we better pull the curtain back and not be afraid to ask them to justify what their Koran says. This isn't just letting a "minority" group into a country to assimilate. There seems to be much more at stake. I mean, their holy book is as much about conquest of the Islamic religion as it is about self-improvement.

We need to understand this religion fully to debate and deny it. To me, Islamism is the single biggest threat to the 21st century. And I really don't know how to fight it.
 
Immigration has changed over the last 20 or so years. One of the key components of immigration has always been assimilation. Immigrants were expected to become Americans by learning the language, obeying the law, working for a living, and paying taxes.

This does not mean that you forget your roots. Just look at groups like the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. They assimilated to become Americans but also keep their own heritage. It is very easy to do both. A St Patrick's day parade, or an Italian Festival, or whatever that Chinese parade is with those paper dragon things are not anti-American.

The problem is that liberals do not want a united nation. They can't sell their class warfare and victim idology to self sufficient people. They want isolated groups at war with each other.

Why would liberals be so eager to pass laws that say that people do NOT have to learn English. They will force government agencies and companies to provide services in whatever langauge a person speaks. Clearly, anybody who does not speak English is at a huge disadvantage in this country. Why pass laws to encourge people to de-value themselves?

They want a permanent class that feels dependent on government for survival. They just want a permanent voting base.
 
Immigration has changed over the last 20 or so years. One of the key components of immigration has always been assimilation. Immigrants were expected to become Americans by learning the language, obeying the law, working for a living, and paying taxes.

This does not mean that you forget your roots. Just look at groups like the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. They assimilated to become Americans but also keep their own heritage. It is very easy to do both. A St Patrick's day parade, or an Italian Festival, or whatever that Chinese parade is with those paper dragon things are not anti-American.

The problem is that liberals do not want a united nation. They can't sell their class warfare and victim idology to self sufficient people. They want isolated groups at war with each other.

Why would liberals be so eager to pass laws that say that people do NOT have to learn English. They will force government agencies and companies to provide services in whatever langauge a person speaks. Clearly, anybody who does not speak English is at a huge disadvantage in this country. Why pass laws to encourge people to de-value themselves?

They want a permanent class that feels dependent on government for survival. They just want a permanent voting base.
It's hard to believe, isn't it? Evil as ****, and yet there are so many useful idiots in their ranks who think they have the moral high ground.
 
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