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NFL AWARDS night ......... good luck TJ winners listed as announced

Hey, it's 2024, get with the program here. It's no longer about measurables, it's all about nuance, perception and feelings.
 
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MTC said:
Guys like James and Hines did change the rules. Patrick Willis does deserve to get in. He was dominant at his position during his time. But players who’ve impacted the game through rule changes definitely deserve a nod
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Of course they do. Where did I say they didn’t?
 
madinsomniac said:
Hester belongs in the HOF.
He made an impact at a very low impact position, and in an era when many teams didnt kick to returners very much...

QB's are High impact positions, but not every great qb belongs in the HOF. Punters are low impact positions, but that doesnt mean the greatest dont belong in the HOF.
KR and PR are legit positions. This guy was the best at that. I hold no grudges seeing him in there
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Meh.....as someone above said. He had 20 tds returned......his WR numbers are nothing special. Now Hines hit a ton of benchmarks. Played on a run first team and changed the game with how he blocked. Himes is 10x the player of Hester. Yet Hester has a jacket and Hines doesn't. Actually disgraceful.
 
Pass rush win rate, what a load of PFF baloney. It's about finishing plays, and nobody has a bigger impact and is more disruptive at that on defense than TJ Watt, not some phony criteria set by some clowns at PFF who think that Garrett is superior because from their standpoint, he does a more fancy foot shuffle at the line of scrimmage. And then the bobble headed anti-Steeler dunderheads at the AP chime in fully in agreement. Seriously, who would you rather have on your team, Garrett or Watt?
 
MT~Forged said:
The inductees over history show that is not completely true.
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Oh it's the absolutely the Hall of Very Good now.

Steelers1356 said:
Pass rush win rate, what a load of PFF baloney. It's about finishing plays, and nobody has a bigger impact and is more disruptive at that on defense than TJ Watt, not some phony criteria set by some clowns at PFF who think that Garrett is superior because from their standpoint, he does a more fancy foot shuffle at the line of scrimmage. And then the bobble headed anti-Steeler dunderheads at the AP chime in fully in agreement. Seriously, who would you rather have on your team, Garrett or Watt?
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Pass rush win rate and double teams. The guy who voted Josh Allen for MVP literally said he couldn't get a double team graph out of his head when voting for DPOY. Btw, Garrett is a terrific defensive player, he just didn't have as good of a year as Watt.
 
Here is the other piece with Hester. He is essentially the best ever of the not good enough. Zero way to say if he would be the best ever against the very best. The best receivers and running backs don't do returns for long.
 
Djfan said:
Here's the nfl's response. Insulting.

426674137_4510397242518070_5814319990784419287_n.jpg
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Said differently, Garrett's numbers were worse because his teammates or scheme was worse, because they moved him around a lot.

So if Highsmith played for the stains, Garrett would not need to be moved around and would have better stats. Or if the prize-winnjng Swartz schemed better(like Tomlin/Austin) then Garrett would have better stats.
 
ZonaBurgh said:
Hey, it's 2024, get with the program here. It's no longer about measurables, it's all about nuance, perception and feelings.
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This 'nuance, perception and feelings' you speak of...h'bout I rearrange ya face?' Charles Bednarik NFL HoF 1969

 
SteelerFan448 said:
I also get that Hester was the best returner ever. He had 20 return touchdowns, so he basically made the Hall of Fame because of 20 plays over an 11-year career.
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Well, I guess what you're saying is that it's so damn easy to score on returns, we ought to be releasing all our return guys for historically sucking ***.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
And 16 receiving TDs. So basically the equivalent of 36 TDs in 11 years. That's 3.5 years of an elite receiver output. To me a best of the generation kicker like Tucker gets in because he is not capable of playing an offense and defense position. If you are capable of playing a position but not good enough to start or have impact. You do not belong in HOF.
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So why does Tucker get in again?
He could a played safety, or WR. I think he just lacked the talent to do that. All he can do is kick a ball. Sure, he kicks it well, but geez. It's one thing.

(Basically the argument being made against a return specialist's value.)
 
SteelerFan448 said:
The Hall of Fame is about the best football players, not best football players at their individual positions.
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So... The league should just eliminate unimportant positions like punters, kickers and returners and just start all drives on the 20 so "real players" can do their jobs.
 
I think the H.O.F. absolutely should award based on position or position group and that they should cycle through those groups every X years on a cadence

That way, yes. The best punter ever can make the H.O.F. and 5 to 10 years later another Punter may be selected if he meets selection criteria.

Otherwise you're just saying "This position is stupid and useless and we should get rid of it."
 
wig said:
So why does Tucker get in again?
He could a played safety, or WR. I think he just lacked the talent to do that. All he can do is kick a ball. Sure, he kicks it well, but geez. It's one thing.

(Basically the argument being made against a return specialist's value.)
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I do understand what you are saying but for example no Adam Viniteri probably two less Masshole SB. Now if you believe Tom Brady could hit those field goals......whereas with a returner there is no way to say that a valuable receiver that you won't expose to injury wouldn't be better then Hester. Hester is the greatest of the guys not good enough to be a valuable RB, receiver or corner.
 
wig said:
So... The league should just eliminate unimportant positions like punters, kickers and returners and just start all drives on the 20 so "real players" can do their jobs.
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Nope, just wouldn't put him in the Hall of Fame. No need to make it more than it is.
 
wig said:
I think the H.O.F. absolutely should award based on position or position group and that they should cycle through those groups every X years on a cadence

That way, yes. The best punter ever can make the H.O.F. and 5 to 10 years later another Punter may be selected if he meets selection criteria.

Otherwise you're just saying "This position is stupid and useless and we should get rid of it."
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Literally not saying that at all. If you're putting in position groups, why not just put in a full roster of Hall of Famers each year?
 
wig said:
So why does Tucker get in again?
He could a played safety, or WR. I think he just lacked the talent to do that. All he can do is kick a ball. Sure, he kicks it well, but geez. It's one thing.

(Basically the argument being made against a return specialist's value.)
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Yep. The guy that’s arguing most about it here it is a football coach. That thinks every KO returner ( even if they are regarded as the best in history) are second rate players,failures that could not excel at another position. Because everyone else in the HOF plays two positions. In a trivial position obviously. It’s a team game. Hester changed field position throughout his career. It wasn’t just TD’s. Man…..if I was a KO man on his team I’d sure be willing to run through a brick wall for him. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

And for those that say…..but Hines deserves to get in. Of course he does. Doesn't mean that Hester shouldn’t.
 
SteelerSask2 said:
And 16 receiving TDs. So basically the equivalent of 36 TDs in 11 years. That's 3.5 years of an elite receiver output. To me a best of the generation kicker like Tucker gets in because he is not capable of playing an offense and defense position. If you are capable of playing a position but not good enough to start or have impact. You do not belong in HOF.
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This is a great point. A WR that couldn't play WR well enough to hold a starting role.
 
So the idiot from PFF that was on The Fan an hour ago used Chris Jones as an example why Garrett won DPOY. He said look at what Jones did in the Super Bowl, he didn't register a sack but forced Purdy to air mail a possible TD to Debo.
 
Coryea said:
So the idiot from PFF that was on The Fan an hour ago used Chris Jones as an example why Garrett won DPOY. He said look at what Jones did in the Super Bowl, he didn't register a sack but forced Purdy to air mail a possible TD to Debo.
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Whereas TJ would just knock the pass down or intercept it. Sure, pff...keep digging, you frauds.
 
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