No production from last two first rounders

[obxsteeler]

Dick, thanks for your service and your amazing career, but kindly go smell the roses and take your overly complex system with you. That complicated system has been hurting player development for years and needs to stop. Also, can we stop the "need to teach player a new position" madness? I swear Dick makes it so complicated to prove what a genius he is. I am over it. Oh, and take the now-overrated Troy with you and go fishing together. Harrison and Keisel can go with you too.

It is really amazing that you feel competent to evaluate LeBeau. What has your system accomplished? I'm sure you could give him some fishing tips as well.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Coach LeBeau's prodigy in Ray Horton is looking TREMENDOUS in Arizona.

Horton is in TN and in Cleveland before that. He was pissed when AZ signed the Bruce and left. It was Todd Bowles defense that held the Rams to 6 points last night. Cards won last night with their 3rd string QB for most of the second half.
Just picture Landry Jones leading the team.

 

[obxsteeler]

That's why Farrior and Clark were so terrible their first year? Oh ya, they were pretty good.

I think POP's quote was totally lacking. But both Farrior and Clark were free agents with 3/4 years experience. They were also 4/3 guys who kind of thrived in the 3/4.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Dick, thanks for your service and your amazing career, but kindly go smell the roses and take your overly complex system with you. That complicated system has been hurting player development for years and needs to stop..

the 3/4 defense is so complex it is hurting the Steelers Player Development? Nobody else plays a 3/4? Wow.. I hope those other teams that play the 3/4 don't suffer from hurt player development too.. gosh.

 

[TDX27]

Both have been injured. No discussion needed especially about a rookie. Next topic.

 

[Coryea]

how many steeler LB's have stepped right in and contributed? Bell, then he got hurt in the 2002 preseason and was never the same. harrison was cut by us and baltimore, Porter didn't start until his 3rd year i think, Woodley started his second year I think.
I don't think it's so much the scheme as it is just adjusting to the NFL.

 

[Superman]

facts are not needed here, korea.

 

[Vader]

how many steeler LB's have stepped right in and contributed? Bell, then he got hurt in the 2002 preseason and was never the same. harrison was cut by us and baltimore, Porter didn't start until his 3rd year i think, Woodley started his second year I think.
I don't think it's so much the scheme as it is just adjusting to the NFL.

Porter started 8 games his second season and had 10.5 sacks. Harrison was an UDFA. Woodley started his 2nd season and had 11.5 sacks.

 

[Coryea]

Porter started 8 games his second season and had 10.5 sacks. Harrison was an UDFA. Woodley started his 2nd season and had 11.5 sacks.

Thanks, didnt realize Porter had that kind of 2nd season. I brought up harrison because he's one of the franchises best LB's and it took awhile.

I'm not making excuses, Jones as a pass rusher should be showing more, especially when he's rushing the passer.

 

[GMC]

I've been holding out hope for Jones, but at 25 years old how much bigger and stronger is he really going to get. I like what I'm seeing in Shazier, but he needs to put on some size. I've seen him riding on guys backs too many times this year.

 

[Vader]

Thanks, didnt realize Porter had that kind of 2nd season. I brought up harrison because he's one of the franchises best LB's and it took awhile.

I'm not making excuses, Jones as a pass rusher should be showing more, especially when he's rushing the passer.

I know. Just giving some facts. I expect more from 1st round picks than I do UDFAs like Harrison. I had a lot of issues with Jones to start with.

 

[obxsteeler]

I know. Just giving some facts. I expect more from 1st round picks than I do UDFAs like Harrison. I had a lot of issues with Jones to start with.

But honestly you've had issues with almost everybody. If you went to a Texan's board think of what a great time you could have with the Clowney pick.

 

[POP]

the complicated d issue isn't as big as people make it out to be... every NFL D uses some zone blitz schemes, all have read and react plays anymore. Its gotten very complicated compared to what it was pretty much all over. Some of this may simply be that we expect young guys to be impact guys right off the bat because of how quick they bolt these days, and a lot of it is the lower picks simply don't get a chance despite how they play there probably is less development with this team than with past staffs, for whatever reason

Not all Ds are as complex as ours. I prefer a simple D where players can just play and not have to think too much, like Seattle's D. They send 4 rushers (4-3) and drop everyone else back in coverage. Nothing fancy, nothing complex,but they are the best D going right now. They rarely even blitz and they don't even bother with moving CBs to the other side of the field, matching their best CB with the best WR;as a matter of fact, Sherman just stays on the left side regardless of where the #1 WR is lined up. I would love to have a D like that over what we have (obviously talent wise, but scheme wise as well).

 

[Vader]

But honestly you've had issues with almost everybody. If you went to a Texan's board think of what a great time you could have with the Clowney pick.

I've said over and over again that I loved the Bell pick along with the Wheaton pick. This year I stated (for those that take the time to read instead of just speaking without knowledge) that I liked every pick except Archer. So your "honestly" isn't very honest.

 

[POP]

the complicated d issue isn't as big as people make it out to be... every NFL D uses some zone blitz schemes, all have read and react plays anymore. Its gotten very complicated compared to what it was pretty much all over. Some of this may simply be that we expect young guys to be impact guys right off the bat because of how quick they bolt these days, and a lot of it is the lower picks simply don't get a chance despite how they play there probably is less development with this team than with past staffs, for whatever reason

Not all Ds are as complex as ours. I prefer a simple D where players can just play and not have to think too much, like Seattle's D. They send 4 rushers (4-3) and drop everyone else back in coverage. Nothing fancy, nothing complex,but they are the best D going right now. They rarely even blitz and they don't even bother with moving CBs to the other side of the field, matching their best CB with the best WR;as a matter of fact, Sherman just stays on the left side regardless of where the #1 WR is lined up. I would love to have a D like that over what we have (obviously talent wise, but scheme wise as well).

 

[Wingman]

We could have a d like that. If our guys did that they would not likely be on the field long enough to get tired, the other teams would likely score every possession.

 

[POP]

It is really amazing that you feel competent to evaluate LeBeau. What has your system accomplished? I'm sure you could give him some fishing tips as well.

What an illogical assertion. Anyone who follows the sport knows that LeBeau's system is no longer "state of the art" or confuses other teams' coaches and QBs. What, you think you have to attend "Football Master's School" to figure it out? I got news for you: NFL coaches are not brilliant; most are probably average intelligence at best. I have met and broke bread with some. A lot are Bible Billies and buy full bore into that stuff. And you think they are above evaluation? What a joke.

 

[POP]

Horton is in TN and in Cleveland before that. He was pissed when AZ signed the Bruce and left. It was Todd Bowles defense that held the Rams to 6 points last night. Cards won last night with their 3rd string QB for most of the second half.
Just picture Landry Jones leading the team.

I would hire Bowles as head coach next season in a heart beat. Wait and see, he will become a better head coach than Tomlin will ever be. Bowles is very engaged and passionate as DC; he gets super into the game, as opposed to Mr. "Don't I look cool in sunglasses." I bet Bowles gets a head gig very soon.

 

[POP]

the 3/4 defense is so complex it is hurting the Steelers Player Development? Nobody else plays a 3/4? Wow.. I hope those other teams that play the 3/4 don't suffer from hurt player development too.. gosh.

You do know that not all 3-4 Ds are the same, right? Dick's is unique in the amount of zone blitzes it incorporates. And either it _is_ more complicated than other Ds, or every announcer is wrong when they speak of it. So, I enjoy your smart-aleky comments, but you are off target. Just because a team runs a 3-4 doesn't make them identical to Dick's personally-devised system.

 

[obxsteeler]

What an illogical assertion. Anyone who follows the sport knows that LeBeau's system is no longer "state of the art" or confuses other teams' coaches and QBs. What, you think you have to attend "Football Master's School" to figure it out? I got news for you: NFL coaches are not brilliant; most are probably average intelligence at best. I have met and broke bread with some. A lot are Bible Billies and buy full bore into that stuff. And you think they are above evaluation? What a joke.

I sure hope you apply if Tomlin/LeBeau leave. The NFL coaching IQ will probably double. I don't think anyone is "above evaluation"-just interested in knowing who's doing it.

 

[Stryker]

Perhaps the defense looks commonplace because we lack the talent to effectively operate it. We're only a couple years from a #1 ranking and the only difference I see is talent.

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...steelers-injuries-first-round-picks-nfl-draft



Injuries have cut into the time the Steelers' last five first round picks have played together
By Neal Coolong  @NealCoolong on Dec 13 2014, 8:06a +


Jason Bridge-USA TODAY Sports
The Steelers have, by and large, selected starters with their first round picks from 2010-2014. The amount of time those five players - Maurkice Pouncey, Cameron Heyward, David DeCastro, Jarvis Jones and Ryan Shazier - have played together may explain the team's slow growth since 2012.

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Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier was rolled into awkwardly during the Steelers' 43-23 win over the Baltimore Ravens in Week 9. It would be the second time in 2014 the team's top draft pick - taken 15th overall out of Ohio State - would leave the field gingerly after an in-game injury.

It would also be far from the first time the Steelers would see a recent first round pick miss time because of he was hurt.


The Steelers have had 13 opportunities this year in which all five of their first round draft picks since 2010 could have played. All five of them - center Maurkice Pouncey, defensive end Cameron Heyward, right guard David DeCastro, outside linebacker Jarvis Jones and inside linebacker Ryan Shazier - have played together just four times.

And the fourth time, last week against the Cincinnati Bengals, Shazier dressed but did not play a snap.

In 2013, Pouncey was lost on the eighth play of the first game, bumping the total playing time of the Steelers' offensive line with both Pouncey and DeCastro to three games and eight snaps. Both have played in every game so far this year, but the issue shifted over to the defense, where rebuilding efforts spearheaded by the selections of Jones and Shazier have resulted in their own limited streak - they were both hurt in the Steelers' Week 3 win over the Carolina Panthers. Jones was out through Week 13, getting on the field after a nine-game absence against the Bengals in Week 14. Shazier would return from the knee injury he suffered in that Week 3 game to return to the field for Weeks 8 and 9, but miss another three games with an ankle injury.

The constant through all of it has been Heyward, who played the least amount of snaps per game of the entire group his rookie season. He hasn't missed a game in his four-year pro career. Without him, the Steelers look at a very small percentage of their other four first-round picks being on the field at the same time this season as well as in 2013. Pouncey has missed 18 games since 2011, and DeCastro has missed 13 since 2012. Jones has played in 18 of the 29 games for which he's been eligible, and Shazier has been in seven of 13 - including the one in which he didn't play at all.



Preseason breakdown of Steelers DE Cameron Heyward

Is this an amazing streak of bad luck? Do other teams suffer the same kind of game-to-game gap in appearances from their youngest, and presumably, best, players? Looking at the AFC North, the Bengals have a similar issue. Between Jermaine Gresham (2010), A.J. Green (2011), Kevin Zeitler (2012), Dre Kirkpatrick (2012), Tyler Eifert (2013) and Darqueze Dennard (2014), they've had a mix of injuries and lack of ability to get on the field. Kirkpatrick mirrors DeCastro, with 32 games played to this point in his career, making just three starts - all last year. Dennard is following the same path as his fellow first-round cornerback, having seen just 56 snaps his rookie year. Eifert, like Pouncey in 2013, was lost on the eighth play of the 2014 season, and may not return this year. Green and Gresham have been the constants, like Heyward for the Steelers, while Zeitler has missed eight of the team's last 29 games for Cincinnati.

Every team in the NFL has 13 games played this year (with the exception of St. Louis and Arizona, who played Thursday night), therefore, have had 13 games in which all of their first round picks since 2010 could have played. The amount of time the Steelers have seen at least one of those picks not on the field is just as much an issue with the growth of this team as anything else.

These are, by most accounts, at least NFL-level starters, too. It's still probably too early to properly evaluate Jones and Shazier, but both of them were rookie year starters (on average defenses). Heyward and Pouncey appear to be the best and DeCastro is right there with them.

The Steelers have already made investments beyond the draft pick with Pouncey (five-year extension this offseason) and Heyward (his 2015 option was picked up and appears to be next in line for an extension). DeCastro isn't going anywhere, as his 2016 option will be picked up this coming offseason. Getting them on the field will be critical for this team in the future, as will bringing Jones and Shazier along both in terms of on-field skill and play recognition as well as health.

It means little now, but it's worth mentioning the Steelers are 3-1 when all five of them are dressed for a game. They're 5-4 when at least one of them is out.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

You do know that not all 3-4 Ds are the same, right? Dick's is unique in the amount of zone blitzes it incorporates. And either it _is_ more complicated than other Ds, or every announcer is wrong when they speak of it. So, I enjoy your smart-aleky comments, but you are off target. Just because a team runs a 3-4 doesn't make them identical to Dick's personally-devised system.

Smart alekey? Really? No,, Just straight up Smarter than your assertion that its all too complicated and THAT complication hurts our player development. Which is just ******* stupid.

 

[hook]

But honestly you've had issues with almost everybody. If you went to a Texan's board think of what a great time you could have with the Clowney pick.

Always thought Clowney was a risky pick because of both attitude and injuries. Texans took a chance and it bit them in the ***. I'm thinking he won't last 5 years in this league.

Me thinks Shazier = Kendrell Bell. lots of talent, lots of injuries.

 

[awboatguy]

Always thought Clowney was a risky pick because of both attitude and injuries. Texans took a chance and it bit them in the ***. I'm thinking he won't last 5 years in this league.

Me thinks Shazier = Kendrell Bell. lots of talent, lots of injuries.

That's right on point! All I see is a Kendrell Bell clone with Shazier. Hope he breaks out next year, but this first year of evaluation material is looking poor. He has tons of talent and speed, now he needs playing time and some lucky breaks in the injury department.