Ocommie should be charged with treason

[Steelin]

Torturing these delicate flowers who threaten us and our very way of life is a small price to pay. If they are not American citizens, are on our soil attempting to harm us, what should stop us from hanging them? Morals?

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Steel.. All good points.

I just don't like your jump to a conclusion that "Most Conservative Don't Have Principles". That doesn't make sense to me because it implies "Most Liberals Have Principles". And I see no evidence of that.

I see your dilemma. I'm not a liberal, so I'm not implying anything. I do think liberals are more humane. I also think they're less realistic. There are maniacs in this world who can't be negotiated with. Most liberals don't understand that concept, but most conservatives do. But liberals sell out their own principles all the time as well. Look at Obama and the NSA. The man is ON TAPE swearing to dismantle it before he became President. Then he gets he job, keeps the program, lies about it, gets caught and what do the liberals do? They swallow the mike and change the subject.

So no. Liberals aren't particularly principled either. I could really get down on them if I started on feminism, but then you'd have War and Peace to read up in here.

I think liberals and conservatives both have a lot of flaws. And I'm not convinced at all that the political left represents anything on the list above that much better than the political right. If anything, defending the Constitution as the greatest law of the land, is much more a politically "right" statement than the politically left. It's the politically left that wants the "law" to morph and change with the social and moral wind of the times and puts that power more and more into unelected judges rather than the "majority".

And while I can see the argument on both sides of that debate, it certainly isn't CLEAR which is better.

I'm a Third Way advocate. I think Civil Libertarianism could revolutionize politics and bring America together. I think "left" and "right" politics are lobotomized ideologies. You need your whole brain to think, not just one side. I am no fan of the Supreme Court, it's stacked with political operatives. But you really don't want elected judges. We've seen this at the local level, and you end up with rampant prosecutorial misconduct. Instead we need a system that vets Judges based on their constitutional acumen, not their political affiliations.

"Modern conservatism"

If that means that we can have a civil discussion, then, yes. If that means that I should sit idly by while some shitbag rapes, beats, harms or tries to kill one of my family or friends, then you can kindly shove your modern conservatism in your ***.

I like the idea of civil discussion. I wish more of it was had on this board.

But in your life, how many times has someone beat raped, or tried to kill you or your family? How often has a Muslim done it?

That's a serious question, made in the name of civil discussion.

Torturing these delicate flowers who threaten us and our very way of life is a small price to pay. If they are not American citizens, are on our soil attempting to harm us, what should stop us from hanging them? Morals?

I think giving up our principles for the sake of emotional expediency is a HUGE price to pay. If we don't stand for something, we stand for nothing. If we torture them, we're no better than them.

And I never said don't hang em. Hell, shoot them on the White House lawn if you want. But torture is beneath us.

 

[Steelin]

Torture is beneath us even when it can save American lives? I'm not talking about cutting off fingers or anything either.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Torture is beneath us even when it can save American lives? I'm not talking about cutting off fingers or anything either.

Yes. It's beneath us. Bad guys torture. Good guys don't. We're the good guys, remember?

Having principles requires sacrifice. It means we don't stoop to their level. It means that if people have to die in order for us to maintain our principles then they die with their integrity intact.

I don't want anyone tortured in my name or for my sake. I'd hate to see my daughters die. And I can't say I wouldn't torture someone to save them. But I would be wrong to so. That's why cooler heads have to prevail. In the calm of peace we have to set ethical standards so in the heat of battle we don't lose our humanity.

You also need to consider the historical precedent of abuse of power. Power corrupts. You give law enforcement the power to torture and it WILL be abused. See Abu Ghraib. It is foolish to assume that every person you give this power to will wield it responsibly. We can hardly trust cops not to abuse tasers and pepper spray. Letting them torture people is a fantastically bad idea. So for both moral and practical reasons, torture is fundamentally un-American.

 

[Rod Farva]

Don't buy it.

Unless that "medical expert" was paid a shitload of money, I can't see a physician signing off on torturing people. The Hippocratic oath would prevent it.

See? First you tell me that I "have nothing to say." Then you get to the nest post that completely corrects the error in one of yours and your response is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalala....I can't hear you."

Chip nailed your narcissistic ***. He's 100% correct, your "arguments" aren't arguments at all....they are simply you stating your opinions, sticking your nose in the air, crossing your arms and "harrumphing." You don't even realize or recognize your own incredibly inflated ego nor the mental masturbation in which you engage. I guess if that's what's necessary for you to get through life, if you can't handle any challenge to your positions there's not much TO say other than.....you're a mental case.



The oath has nothing in it I've seen that would prevent giving medical advice on whether any particular action would cause lasting harm. In fact I'd argue that's required by it. But it's your opinion so it must be factually correct right?

 

[deljzc]

Yes. It's beneath us. Bad guys torture. Good guys don't. We're the good guys, remember?

Having principles requires sacrifice. It means we don't stoop to their level. It means that if people have to die in order for us to maintain our principles then they die with their integrity intact.

I don't want anyone tortured in my name or for my sake. I'd hate to see my daughters die. And I can't say I wouldn't torture someone to save them. But I would be wrong to so. That's why cooler heads have to prevail. In the calm of peace we have to set ethical standards so in the heat of battle we don't lose our humanity.

You also need to consider the historical precedent of abuse of power. Power corrupts. You give law enforcement the power to torture and it WILL be abused. See Abu Ghraib. It is foolish to assume that every person you give this power to will wield it responsibly. We can hardly trust cops not to abuse tasers and pepper spray. Letting them torture people is a fantastically bad idea. So for both moral and practical reasons, torture is fundamentally un-American.

I don't think the line between interrogation and torture is quite as black and white as you make it out to be. And our country has a long history of what you would probably consider "torture". I'm sure we did it in WWII and Vietnam as well. So to me, the "moral" argument started when exactly? 1960? 1980? 2000? The evidence actually points that we have tortured LESS in the last 10 years of our conflict with Islamic Terrorists than what we used to do in WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

I'm voting Trump, but I'm not on board with his torture comments either. I think he knows he ****** up on that, it's just hard to correct it now during the primaries. He even backtracked a bit and said he'd use interrogation techniques based on what his military recommends and what's allowed by law. And if the military wants more, he'd change the law. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Superman]

I like the idea of civil discussion. I wish more of it was had on this board.

But in your life, how many times has someone beat raped, or tried to kill you or your family? How often has a Muslim done it?

That's a serious question, made in the name of civil discussion.

I care not to divulge every facet of my life on a message board with you. Let's just say one ******* did try to beat my ***. he wasn't muslim, but he's a low life piece of ****.
As for muzzies... I live in an armpit of them. I see and interact with them on a mostly daily basis. Common courtesy, as well as personal hygiene, is not one of their strong points...to put it mildly.

 

[Steelin]

Yes. It's beneath us. Bad guys torture. Good guys don't. We're the good guys, remember?

Having principles requires sacrifice. It means we don't stoop to their level. It means that if people have to die in order for us to maintain our principles then they die with their integrity intact.

I don't want anyone tortured in my name or for my sake. I'd hate to see my daughters die. And I can't say I wouldn't torture someone to save them. But I would be wrong to so. That's why cooler heads have to prevail. In the calm of peace we have to set ethical standards so in the heat of battle we don't lose our humanity.

You also need to consider the historical precedent of abuse of power. Power corrupts. You give law enforcement the power to torture and it WILL be abused. See Abu Ghraib. It is foolish to assume that every person you give this power to will wield it responsibly. We can hardly trust cops not to abuse tasers and pepper spray. Letting them torture people is a fantastically bad idea. So for both moral and practical reasons, torture is fundamentally un-American.

I think that it is beneath us to torture for the sake of some sicko getting their jollies. The pics with the crazy wench and the dog attacking the naked Muslim man were horrifying. Interrogations for the sake of our safety within some reasonable boundaries are quite another thing.

 

[ark steel]

I think that it is beneath us to torture for the sake of some sicko getting their jollies. The pics with the crazy wench and the dog attacking the naked Muslim man were horrifying. Interrogations for the sake of our safety within some reasonable boundaries are quite another thing.

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

 

[Coach]

He has endangered this nation by opening our borders to illegal aliens, including violent criminals and terrorists, and has ignored our immigration laws. And he won't even acknowledge radical Islamic terrorism as a threat to us. And he gave nuclear weapons to a terrorist country who hates America. And he's trying to destroy our country financially. Not to mention a hundred other things. He's clearly the absolute worst president in our history.

I think an independent filmmaker should make a movie of all of his outrageous decisions using his own words. Then footage can be shown after speaking with the conquests of his actions shown.

Also, don't be fooled by Obama care. It's partly about control. When just one company per state can play, it's a monopoly with loaded political dice.

 

[Steelin]

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

I totally respect our military and what they do to keep us safe. Both of my brothers served honorably. If necessary, I would be totally willing and able mind you, to pick up a weapon and stand a post. I'm very curious as to what part of my post offended you.

 

[Superman]

I believe he was agreeing with you.
but ark is a weird ******, so...

 

[Steelin]

I believe he was agreeing with you.
but ark is a weird ******, so...

Ok, well, I sure didn't get that lol. I"m a weird ****** too.

 

[ark steel]

I believe he was agreeing with you.

Even a blindly stupid ****** like Supe can get something right. I assume his loving daughter gave him the answer. Or Otis, did.

Interrogations for the sake of our safety within some reasonable boundaries are quite another thing.

I think the definition of "reasonable boundaries" can be, somewhat, fluid without being an immoral person. It is a dilemma that some people face and we are all glad we aren't the ones doing it.

The idea that SV would lecture anyone on moral relativity if as reasonable as Supe not being an *******.

 

[Superman]

Supe really needs to pare down his friends' list.

 

[ark steel]

Supe really needs to pare down his friends' list.

and learn how to put quotes around "friends"....

 

[Superman]

people wonder why i refer to ark as an *******.



until they meet him.

 

[Steelin]

True friends can give each other a hard time without worries. You guys are a classic example of this.

 

[SteelChip]

True friends can give each other a hard time without worries. You guys are a classic example of this.

 

[Steeltime]

George was a terrorist, so I buy that. If the Red Coats had crossed the Delaware in the wee hours of Christmas night and killed our troops in their sleep we'd be calling it a war crime. But because our side did it, it's a celebrated victory. That's Moral Relativism in a nutshell.

Are you trying to be wrong?

Washington attacked a uniformed enemy, during a war.

They were sleeping? Maybe they should have POSTED A ******* GUARD!!

Jesus, your comment is just ... dumb.

 

[ark steel]

Are you trying to be wrong?

Washington attacked a uniformed enemy, during a war.

They were sleeping? Maybe they should have POSTED A ******* GUARD!!

Jesus, your comment is just ... dumb.

you probably have taken a pill that wasn't prescribed to you, who are YOU to take the high road!! ******* hypocrite.

 

[Rod Farva]

SV is the king of moral relativism. I guarantee that if someone were holding a loved one of his hostage, and they could be found using whatever means necessary, the means would be justified by the possibility of the ends.

 

[Steelr4evr]

By far the most anti American president ever. His dead commie father must be proud.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

By far the most anti American president ever. His dead commie father must be proud.

Raised in Indonesia and Hawaii by a white people, the blackest thing about him is that his father took off after he knocked up his mother.

 

[Steelin]

By far the most anti American president ever. His dead commie father must be proud.

I agree. I thought that Clinton had that all wrapped up but it appears that his anti-Americanism had more to do with greed than pure hatred of everything that has made America great.