Opinions of the final 2016 draft Class

[MTC]

purely speculation

Eh just being bitchy cause **** the Bungholes

 

[slashsteel]

I meant their highest rated REMAINING corner. Not overall. They probably had Jackson rated a little higher to be honest. Judging by what Colbert said I think he pretty much thought Apple and Jackson may both be gone by the time they picked. He was anticipating drafting Burns. To me there isn't much difference potential wise between Burns and Apple, but I think Jackson is much more aggressive than both guys and would have been great but that's not saying Burns is a bad pick. Jackson is also about 3 years older than Burns too. If Burns ends up being a solid player that's even better. You can redshirt him this season, get him up to speed, still have him for 4 years and he's only 25/26 at that point where Jackson would be almost 30.

Really hard to tell, as both were on their radar, and in a significant amount of reports they were flip flopped.

some called Jackson grabby, some said his rise up the boards from 2 to 1 was based on the combine...

I think in this situation the odds are about even, really could have been either way on their board.

Although we know the Steelers like those round one younger players.......

I have a feeling they were rated very close to each other......... but so very hard to know.

Definitely something I will fish around for at training camp. Not that I will definitely find out........

I get VIP passes here and there maybe I will get lucky and uncover the mystery

and then again maybe not. lulz

 

[MTC]

FordFairLane, you're suggesting that because Gary Dulac - a local beat writer - predicted the Steelers will pick a corner, that somehow the Steelers FO "panicked and pigeon holed a position to draft"?

You write: "Leaking that they were taking a CB just shows you how in disarray our front office is."

Anyone who even vaguely follows football knows the Steelers had massive holes in their secondary. How big of a secret did you think it was? And our front office is in "dissarray" because they picked a unanimous top 5 corner - for the first time since 1997 - to finally add some top-shelf talent to their pass D?

Seems to me some of you guys are out-thinking yourselves.

 

[slashsteel]

I'm suggesting the Steelers targeted a CB last year and when Peters and Johnson went off the board they stuck to their board and took Dupree with the belief that a CB would be there in the second they wanted. There was a run at CB we tried to move up without success and we ended up reaching on a CB just to try to fix our nickel back situation. This year I feel the Steelers had a need and were going to fill it regardless. I just don't get not trading back. We were low on picks as it is and the meat on this draft was 30-100. Getting an extra pick in there and if Burns is your guy still likely getting him just makes sense.

I wanted them to trade down too.....

but was mentioned somewhere within the board what if Burns was their last CB rated within a certain group and after that they considered it to be a significant drop off? so they simply didn't want to take a chance moving down for this corner....as some were saying he could sneak into the first prior to the draft. Perhaps some team sneaks in right before the pick and selects Burns then what?

You took a chance for one 4th to 5th rounder ?

and faced with the same situation you feel they were faced with last year?


I don't think you take that risk, especially if what you say was what really happened.

 

[Steel Vanguard]

1
Morris Claiborne
Stephon Gilmore
Dre Kirkpatrick

2
Janoris Jenkins
Casey Hayward

3
Trumaine Johnson
Josh Robinson
Jamell Fleming
Dwight Bentley
Jayron Hosley

4
Omar Bolden
Coty Sensabaugh
Brandon Boykin
Ron Brooks


You know what that is? That is a list of all the corners taken before Josh Norman, by round. Of them only Jenkins made the Pro Bowl.

All this crying over Artie's draft position has got to stop. The only think that matters is CAN HE PLAY? I leave it to the coaches to make that happens, but all the physical tools are there. **** WILLIAM JACKSON. He's a Bengal now, and that make him **** to me.

 

[Coach]

1. Artie Burns (CB)- Might be a slight reach... still looks like a good long term solution at CB... might need to redshirt a year
2. Sean Davis (SS)- Solid looking safety pick... apparently some hip/coverage issues, but will be fine as long as the play is in front of him
3, Javon Hargrave (DL) - Pass rushing Dlineman adds depth
4. Jerald Hawkins (OT) - Good Value swing tackle... cant complain at all about this
6. Travis Feeney (LB) - Fast LB, lots of measurables and a chip on his shoulder. Good boom or bust guy
7. deMarcus Ayers (PR/WR) - sure handed punt returner if no one else can fill the role
7. Tyler Matakevich (ILB) - looks like a great 7th round prospect... very strong... might need a year on the practice squad

Overall I like that we addressed the areas of greatest concern... few huge steals this year, but everyone looks like they could be solid contributors. The top 4 will almost certainly get spots on the 53... all the rest can easily earn them... too... there are open slots for each

The Steelers draft for NEED. The trouble is they reached a bit to get it.

Round 1 ) Burns is raw. Bad in the zone, a weak tackler, and flag prone. He's only 20 and further away from NFL ready than most. Its an upside pick and a need pick. On the plus side, he's big, fast with ball skills.

Round 2 ) Davis gave up a lot of real estate. I do not think he's what we are looking for.

Round 3 ) Hargrave. For value, this was a great pick and a need. Small school prospect, but he dominated there.

Round 4 ) Hawkins. I think he'll struggle a bit to anchor in the NFL. Not a fan of this pick.

Round 6 ) Feeney. Fast, productive, and a playmaker. Excellent gamble in round 6.

Round 7 A ) Ayers. He's 5'9" tall and ran a 4.71 at the combine. #'s reject, We could have done much better

Round 7B ) Matakevich. Won awards in college. A tackling machine, who had a high amount of interceptions as well. Pure football player type, and excellent instincts and intangibles, which matter a lot at iLB. Can play special teams as well. Looked good in the senior bowl game. Very good round 7 pick.



**I do not think this was antyhing but an average draft, and the first two picks have hugh bust potential **

 

[FordFairLane]

Thanks for the response, I get what you're saying. But you're not taking into consideration a couple of things. First and foremost, it has been made clear Burns was among the very top of the corners on the Steelers board. Possibly above WJIII that a lot of us fans coveted. Colbert was as adament as can be that they grabbed Burns @25 with no hesitation or even considered for a second to not pick him. He was right there at the top of their board when their pick came up. As difficult as it may be, it is time to start wrapping our heads around the fact they truly loved Artie Burns. As others have pointed out, it's possible they would had picked Burns before WJIII to begin with. To your second point of trading down, I've posted, and re-posted in several threads that Burns was slotted to go 25, 25, 28, 29 and 30 on nfl.com pre-draft mock. If he's the cornerback you want, he's sitting there when you pick, and there's basically no chance in hell to grab him later, you do the right thing. You make the pick, which the Steelers did.

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

 

[slashsteel]

The Steelers draft for NEED. The trouble is they reached a bit to get it.

Round 1 ) Burns is raw. Bad in the zone, a weak tackler, and flag prone. He's only 20 and further away from NFL ready than most. Its an upside pick and a need pick. On the plus side, he's big, fast with ball skills.

Round 2 ) Davis gave up a lot of real estate. I do not think he's what we are looking for.

Round 3 ) Hargrave. For value, this was a great pick and a need. Small school prospect, but he dominated there.

Round 4 ) Hawkins. I think he'll struggle a bit to anchor in the NFL. Not a fan of this pick.

Round 6 ) Feeney. Fast, productive, and a playmaker. Excellent gamble in round 6.

Round 7 A ) Ayers. He's 5'9" tall and ran a 4.71 at the combine. #'s reject, We could have done much better

Round 7B ) Matakevich. Won awards in college. A tackling machine, who had a high amount of interceptions as well. Pure football player type, and excellent instincts and intangibles, which matter a lot at iLB. Can play special teams as well. Looked good in the senior bowl game. Very good round 7 pick.



**I do not think this was antyhing but an average draft, and the first two picks have hugh bust potential **

you are one of those people that 1000 people could clarify a point to you

but afterwards you would still have the same ****** opinion

Hawkins although small school shined at the Shrine game, I think that helps show he is capable of rising to the competition. I am not buying Burns is ****** in Zone coverage, Ayers was nursing a injury at the combine, Davis' cover issues probably was more at CB than S. And as a tackler he should fit perfectly at SS.

 

[slashsteel]

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

Steelers thought there was value at CB early, sorry if that disrupts your mock draft.

 

[Litos]

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

where was kamalei correa considered a late 1st? Burns indeed considered by many as a late 1st. Again I ask who was there that was a day 1 starter for the D?

 

[diver]

Knock it off with the personal attacks. You have been warned.

Personal attacks? With what I see on this site on occasion you take offense to this?

It is dumb to speculate that the FO had a panic attack, or that because Dulac let it out they wanted DBs, the FO is in disarray. Anybody with any sense who watched the Steelers last year and before knows they needed defensive backs. Until there is some proof that any of the above happened, it is those putting forth speculation that should apologize. Apologize for subjecting everybody to it.

As per the emotional comment, OK. My point there was some people get so emotionally invested in the draft, when it doesn't go the way they think it should go, its wah, wah.

 

[FordFairLane]

where was kamalei correa considered a late 1st? Burns indeed considered by many as a late 1st. Again I ask who was there that was a day 1 starter for the D?

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

Hypothetical...

 

[Litos]

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

Hypothetical...

well for argument sake, who do you think was a better option because he could help the D right away? who was the better value?

 

[Steel Vanguard]

Baltimore really stacked up on pass rushers...

 

[slashsteel]

Baltimore really stacked up on pass rushers...

they are starving for pass rushers, didn't shock me

for how the media seem to like Cincy's draft, the ratbirds made sense.........

 

[nooneuno]

This thread is your opinion about the 2016 draft. My opinion of Burns is he was in that second tier CB group. If the Steelers really did have him in that top group I guess we will see who's right. I do honestly hope he's a day one starter, pro bowler and future hall of famer. Just watching his tape it looks like he has a ways to go, imo. If you look at my mock the draft mock I ended up waiting for the third round to get a DB and 4th to get a CB. Not because S and CB weren't needs but because I drafted for value. That's my opinion that a team should not draft for need. Let's just say for argument sake CB is the biggest need but the Steelers had a second round grade on Burns. They also have, again for argument sakes, Kamalei Correa as the best player on their board. They have a middle first on him. But they go for need over value. If Kamalei Correa has 10 sacks and 15 QB pressures as a rookie do you think that helps the secondary? I guess what I'm saying if you take the BPA every time all you are doing is bettering your team as a whole.

Hypothetical...

And how do you know Burns wasn't the top rated prospect on the Steelers draft board when selected regardless of position?

They sure had him rated high because Colbert said trading back was never an option Artie Burns was the guy.

 

[Litos]

And how do you know Burns wasn't the top rated prospect on the Steelers draft board when selected regardless of position?

They sure had him rated high because Colbert said trading back was never an option Artie Burns was the guy.

you just have to see that he didn't answer when I asked who was better value according to him, his silence proves that his argument has no support

 

[FordFairLane]

well for argument sake, who do you think was a better option because he could help the D right away? who was the better value?

http://steelernation.com/showthread.php?4017-My-Mock-Along-Mock

If you want to know what I would have done this is my mock along mock. During the draft I see who the Steelers pick. If I don't agree I put who I would have chose instead. Been doing it for years. Sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm wrong. All in all I don't think nfl gms are superior talent evaluators than anyone else who understands and follows college football. I do think they have a lot more knowledge and more insight from larger pool.

 

[FordFairLane]

And how do you know Burns wasn't the top rated prospect on the Steelers draft board when selected regardless of position?

They sure had him rated high because Colbert said trading back was never an option Artie Burns was the guy.

That's great and I hope that they are correct. My opinion however is they reached and should have taken the trade.

 

[Clete]

I agree on the trade, Burns is just a guy and we could have used motre picks, picked up a Dak Prescott instead of wasting time resigning the horrible Gradkowski.

 

[Litos]

http://steelernation.com/showthread.php?4017-My-Mock-Along-Mock

If you want to know what I would have done this is my mock along mock. During the draft I see who the Steelers pick. If I don't agree I put who I would have chose instead. Been doing it for years. Sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm wrong. All in all I don't think nfl gms are superior talent evaluators than anyone else who understands and follows college football. I do think they have a lot more knowledge and more insight from larger pool.

miles jack was a great player, top 2 of the draft but that was before the injury, risking a 1st rounder on him is a huge risk, especially for a ILB. Still find Burns as a guy that can help this season and has the tools to be a #1 in a couple of years. I really see better value in Burns and this comes from a guy that in the heat of the moment was pissed at colbert for not trading back to 31. You can see that on the draft thread

 

[obxsteeler]

http://steelernation.com/showthread.php?4017-My-Mock-Along-Mock

If you want to know what I would have done this is my mock along mock. During the draft I see who the Steelers pick. If I don't agree I put who I would have chose instead. Been doing it for years. Sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm wrong. All in all I don't think nfl gms are superior talent evaluators than anyone else who understands and follows college football. I do think they have a lot more knowledge and more insight from larger pool.

The GM's might not be "superior" talent evaluators but they do have a huge advantage in input from coaches who actually work these guys out. Can you name me any fan who's opinion you would trust as much as Munchak/Mittchell for example?

 

[FordFairLane]

miles jack was a great player, top 2 of the draft but that was before the injury, risking a 1st rounder on him is a huge risk, especially for a ILB. Still find Burns as a guy that can help this season and has the tools to be a #1 in a couple of years. I really see better value in Burns and this comes from a guy that in the heat of the moment was pissed at colbert for not trading back to 31. You can see that on the draft thread

Myles Jack risk is he won't play this year. If he has the microfracture surgery it's 80% effective to restoring the cartilage back. The biggest problem is after he would need to have his leg immobilized for 8 weeks. Then rehab starts with no impact leg exercises. It takes 6 to 12 months to be 100% again. The problem is nobody drafting in the top of the first wanted to pay Jack for a season rehabbing. I figured at #25 the only player left who has a shot at starting this year left on the board that has value at #25 is Vernon Butler. I take a shot and take the trade.

Now here's where we differ. You say myles jack is a risk. I say he's not as long as I go into it knowing he's not going to play as a rookie. Next year I have a top tier player who has been able to study the playbook and be coached for a year come in and start next to Shazier.

You say Burns helps us this season. We will see but my assessment is he won't be a starter and likely a #4 CB behind Cockrell, Gay, and Golson. I say this because besides having decent hands and size Burns is raw and not a special athlete.

Opinions are different so we will see who's right. Personally I hope I'm wrong and Burns starts day one and is great.

 

[FordFairLane]

The GM's might not be "superior" talent evaluators but they do have a huge advantage in input from coaches who actually work these guys out. Can you name me any fan who's opinion you would trust as much as Munchak/Mittchell for example?

That's my point. NFL GMs just have more data and a larger pool to work from.

 

[CoolieMan]

Myles Jack risk is he won't play this year. If he has the microfracture surgery it's 80% effective to restoring the cartilage back. The biggest problem is after he would need to have his leg immobilized for 8 weeks. Then rehab starts with no impact leg exercises. It takes 6 to 12 months to be 100% again. The problem is nobody drafting in the top of the first wanted to pay Jack for a season rehabbing. I figured at #25 the only player left who has a shot at starting this year left on the board that has value at #25 is Vernon Butler. I take a shot and take the trade.

Now here's where we differ. You say myles jack is a risk. I say he's not as long as I go into it knowing he's not going to play as a rookie. Next year I have a top tier player who has been able to study the playbook and be coached for a year come in and start next to Shazier.

You say Burns helps us this season. We will see but my assessment is he won't be a starter and likely a #4 CB behind Cockrell, Gay, and Golson. I say this because besides having decent hands and size Burns is raw and not a special athlete.

Opinions are different so we will see who's right. Personally I hope I'm wrong and Burns starts day one and is great.

and that knee could crater and you have just wasted #25 on a guy who might never play or MAYBE survives through his rookie contract.