Questions for the Draft

[Greg Lloyd]

I dunno is Mike keeping his hand out of the cookie jar?

If he is, the answer is a big "no" to SB contention.

 

[SteelerFan448]

After looking at countless mock draft’s, nobody is considering moving Barton to Center. The VAST majority are not even going to keep him @ OT, the majority consensus is to move him inside to Guard. This team doesn’t really need a Guard, so I would have to say I would pass on him, and still take Mims if available. If the Steelers had an aged productive line, then maybe I could see taking him and allowing him to find his position.

Dane Bugler, one of the top draft analysts, looks at Barton as a guard or center. Dulac has said the Steelers view him as a center. Lance Zierlein of NFL.com said "Though he played at a high level at left tackle, center will likely be his NFL home."

Here's a mock draft from NFL.com https://www.nfl.com/news/dan-parr-2024-nfl-mock-draft-2-0?campaign=Twitter_atn

"Barton played mostly left tackle for the Blue Devils, but he can fill Pittsburgh’s void in the pivot from Day 1. This could be the Steelers' next great center."

Maybe the best analyst, Daniel Jeremiah had this to say about Barton:

"In terms of stylistically, Graham Barton is the best athlete of the three. I think he has legit five-position flexibility. He can move around and do different things. Played left tackle. I think he's best at center, but he can survive at tackle if you needed him to. I think he's fully capable of playing guard, as well. He's the best in space, change in direction, just overall athleticism. He's really, really talented."

At his pro day, his positional drills were primarily at center. I don't think Barton or the coaches/scouts putting him through a workout would be wasting time at a position he may not play in the NFL.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Something has got to happen to get Dan Moore out of the LT position.

If they moved up intending Broderick Jones to be LT and yet now have decided him to be RT, so be it.

With that in mind, we need a LT, or a means to one.

Clearly C / RT or LT are the two biggest needs on this offensive line. Barton could fill all three, b ut he needs to be a Center if taken and not some other position lesser of his strength.


Salute the nation

 

[Steelr4evr]

^^^^this^^^^

Many forget this exact syndrome about cost vs quality full scale Of players. The cost of this defense verses the cost of the defense 8-10years ago was vastly different, yet similar post season results in win / loss.

All that leads to coaching, and ability to rise up for the playoffs. Our coaching has proven it can NOT rise to the occasion, regardless of talent.

When combining them scheme & the coaching, specifically the head coaching, you get the blow out losses. It extends across the offense as well, currently.

Rudy, best QB in the league when looking at just the last three games he started. A wide open offensive game plan, come playoff game………. Crickets, conservative and play not to lose…………… THAT is head coaching, our head coaching.



Salute the nation

The coaching needed upgraded 8-9 years ago. It's the fatal flaw in their championship endeavor.

I would just love to be wrong on this.

 

[Litos]

Agreed. I'm really thinking C must be addressed by round 2. If they don't think they need to use a 1st on it, fine. But they got to grab a C by round 2.

Even if it's a reach? I mean, Barton, jpj and Frazier might be gone. Nouzard in the 4th? For sure, but him in the 2nd? No way

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Again, just looks good on paper. We will have to see if it actually translates to the field.

I see you are just another person who likes to repeat the stupid idea, that the Offense is responsible if the Defense plays poorly. Sure the Offense has been an absolute mess, as it has been for most of Tomlin’s tenure. Last time I checked the rules though, it did not REQUIRE that if the O goes 3 & out, the D is required to be on the field for a minimum of 8 plays. I do believe that the Defense is allowed to get themselves off the field at ANY TIME. They continue to give up yards and 1st downs because of piss poor coaching schemes, AND poor player execution.

Mike Tomlin is NOT CAPABLE of fielding a Super Bowl team unless he inherits one. You can’t become a Super Bowl team, when you can’t get to the playoffs and especially when you lose in the 1st round and give up 30+ points every time. He is an above average coach, which is fine, if all you care about is a winning regular season record. You have to be a good to great coach to win against the top teams in the playoffs, and he is sadly not one of those.

You seem like an irrational Tomlin hater. I've criticized Tomlin plenty but to simply declare the steelers are incapable of winning as long as Tomlin is here is a stretch.

A bad offense makes playing defense much tougher. That's jut true.

Let's look at why they've been mediocre for the last decade or so. The main reason is they let the OL deteriorate. They had playmakers like Ben, Bell and Brown that covered up for spotty OL play. As those playmakers left, the OL had to pull more weight. People blamed Fichtner and fired him for Canada.

Lots of past mistakes were made in the draft. That's what has held the steelers back. I believe it's because Tomlin had quite a bit of say in the selections and he's a bad talent evaluator. He goes with his gut with guys he likes at a dinner meeting, or guts from Va Beach or who played with his son.

But it seems apparent that things have changed when Colbert left. Khan and Weidl are running the show now. The way of drafting and doing business clearly changed last year and in a short time, they've done a lot to upgrade the OL. It appears they plan to upgrade it even more.

Arthur Smith is a massive upgrade at OC. Austin may actually be a good DC. He somehow manage to finish 6th best in points allowed (the only category that really matters) despite a rash of injuries to major players.

Tomlin has shown he can win with a good enough team. Previously he inherited one. Now it appears he is having one built for him by Khan.

 

[Greg Lloyd]

Lots of past mistakes were made in the draft. That's what has held the steelers back. I believe it's because Tomlin had quite a bit of say in the selections and he's a bad talent evaluator. He goes with his gut with guys he likes at a dinner meeting, or guts from Va Beach or who played with his son.

Yup, yup

 

[Drink IRON City]

WHAT would be the bigger event.???????

Winning a Super Bowl OR Tomlin retiring ???


Salute the nation

 

[Litos]

WHAT would be the bigger event.???????

Winning a Super Bowl OR Tomlin retiring ???


Salute the nation

Whichever comes first

 

[Drink IRON City]

Whichever comes first

Just out of curiosity………..

Which do you think will come first ?


Salute the nation

 

[BLITZ]

Just out of curiosity………..

Which do you think will come first ?


Salute the nation

In my opinion you can't get one without the other

 

[slashsteel]

Just out of curiosity………..

Which do you think will come first ?


Salute the nation

I think Tomlin retiring will come first but would welcome the SB if it was in my lifetime. Both would be big media events not sure which one would weigh more on a weight scale.

 

[diver]

WHAT would be the bigger event.???????

Winning a Super Bowl OR Tomlin retiring ???


Salute the nation

I guess it depends on your perspective. Winning a Super Bowl...and I don't give a shiit who the coach is if/when they do it.

 

[Steelmann]

WHAT would be the bigger event.???????

Winning a Super Bowl OR Tomlin retiring ???


Salute the nation

What’s wrong with the double whammy? Steelers win the SB with MT coaching and he announces his retirement at the podium. As long as it’s in the next two years of course.

 

[MT~Forged]

You seem like an irrational Tomlin hater. I've criticized Tomlin plenty but to simply declare the steelers are incapable of winning as long as Tomlin is here is a stretch.

If expecting a HC to field a playoff calibre team makes me a “Tomlin Hater”, then I guess I have to accept that. I have been on record for years saying that Tomlin is an above average HC, a ”B” if you will. He wins more than he loses in the regular season, because the teams you play can have any record. He loses in the playoffs, because he is overmatched when playing only quality winning teams. Sure there are going to be those in the playoffs that occasionally do not belong, but since that is normally Tomlin’s team, they don’t get a chance to play them.

A bad offense makes playing defense much tougher. That's jut true.

Over a course of a season, I will agree that a **** O will make that true. It still doesn’t change the fact that the D can remove themselves from the field at any time. There are no rules that say they have to give up 11 play TD drives, because the **** O went 3 & out.

Let's look at why they've been mediocre for the last decade or so. The main reason is they let the OL deteriorate. They had playmakers like Ben, Bell and Brown that covered up for spotty OL play. As those playmakers left, the OL had to pull more weight. People blamed Fichtner and fired him for Canada.

Agree completely

Lots of past mistakes were made in the draft. That's what has held the steelers back. I believe it's because Tomlin had quite a bit of say in the selections and he's a bad talent evaluator. He goes with his gut with guys he likes at a dinner meeting, or guts from Va Beach or who played with his son.

This appears to be true

But it seems apparent that things have changed when Colbert left. Khan and Weidl are running the show now. The way of drafting and doing business clearly changed last year and in a short time, they've done a lot to upgrade the OL. It appears they plan to upgrade it even more.

I have always believed that a team should be built by the GM and his staff. Input from everyone should be the plan, but the GM should be the one making the call. The HC should field a team and gameplan around the players he is given. Great HC’s do that in every sport at every level. That just doesn’t seem to be Tomlin’s strong suit.

Arthur Smith is a massive upgrade at OC. Austin may actually be a good DC. He somehow manage to finish 6th best in points allowed (the only category that really matters) despite a rash of injuries to major players.

The current OC will be a huge upgrade, IF he is allowed to do his thing without being hamstrung by the HC. The same can be said about the DC.

Tomlin has shown he can win with a good enough team. Previously he inherited one. Now it appears he is having one built for him by Khan.

Hopefully that is the case here. I think that things over the years have gotten so much more involved and complicated, that the days of the HC also taking on GM duties is over. The HC has way too much going on to be worrying about anything not his job.

 

[Litos]

Just out of curiosity………..

Which do you think will come first ?


Salute the nation

Tomlin leaving unfortunately

 

[Drink IRON City]

If expecting a HC to field a playoff calibre team makes me a “Tomlin Hater”, then I guess I have to accept that. I have been on record for years saying that Tomlin is an above average HC, a ”B” if you will. He wins more than he loses in the regular season, because the teams you play can have any record. He loses in the playoffs, because he is overmatched when playing only quality winning teams. Sure there are going to be those in the playoffs that occasionally do not belong, but since that is normally Tomlin’s team, they don’t get a chance to play them.

Over a course of a season, I will agree that a **** O will make that true. It still doesn’t change the fact that the D can remove themselves from the field at any time. There are no rules that say they have to give up 11 play TD drives, because the **** O went 3 & out.

Agree completely

This appears to be true

I have always believed that a team should be built by the GM and his staff. Input from everyone should be the plan, but the GM should be the one making the call. The HC should field a team and gameplan around the players he is given. Great HC’s do that in every sport at every level. That just doesn’t seem to be Tomlin’s strong suit.

The current OC will be a huge upgrade, IF he is allowed to do his thing without being hamstrung by the HC. The same can be said about the DC.

Hopefully that is the case here. I think that things over the years have gotten so much more involved and complicated, that the days of the HC also taking on GM duties is over. The HC has way too much going on to be worrying about anything not his job.

GREAT post MT-Forged, thanks for all the great ones along the way.!!


One small point to add / ponder……. Austin (DC) is often excused due to “Tomlin” influence / scheme. One must remember that our DC wasn’t very good elsewhere either.


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Tomlin leaving unfortunately

I’d have to agree here. Coach Tomlin could surprise us and possibly sneak one out, but the odds are against him because it would take major coaching style change. I don’t think Coach Tomlin can make that change so him leaving would increase the chance of something different happening instead of just non-losing seasons.


Salute the nation

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I am no draftnik nerd or anything but outside of QB or RB, I would always take the best available player in the first round...period. I hate those Troy Edwards/Artie Burns type pics. Then again....whoever rated Devin Bush should never work in the NFL again. Bottom-line, never reach on a player in round one for whatever reason. I still have nightmares over the justification of taking Jamain Stephens when Lawyer Milloy and Brian Dawkins were available and taken in round 2.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I don't know about Barton but read on Fautanu that he took his first snaps at his Pro day. C'mon this is the NFL. You cannot say someone projects as the best Center if there isn't game footage of his snaps. That is insane. Cole was a seasoned center and his snaps were all over. If Center doesn't project to first round take another position and get one in second. But get a Center.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I don't know about Barton but read on Fautanu that he took his first snaps at his Pro day. C'mon this is the NFL. You cannot say someone projects as the best Center if there isn't game footage of his snaps. That is insane. Cole was a seasoned center and his snaps were all over. If Center doesn't project to first round take another position and get one in second. But get a Center.

I think our C comes in rnd 2 or 3a.


Salute the nation

 

[madinsomniac]

Something has got to happen to get Dan Moore out of the LT position.

If they moved up intending Broderick Jones to be LT and yet now have decided him to be RT, so be it.

With that in mind, we need a LT, or a means to one.

Clearly C / RT or LT are the two biggest needs on this offensive line. Barton could fill all three, b ut he needs to be a Center if taken and not some other position lesser of his strength.


Salute the nation

The thing to remember is that we dont NEED a stud at either position... it would be nice, but it isnt absolutely necessary...

Its a very deep T draft. If we took a C in the first we could get a serviceable guy in the second or third round.. C isnt as deep, but its also in less demand...

 

[SteelerSask2]

The thing to remember is that we dont NEED a stud at either position... it would be nice, but it isnt absolutely necessary...

Its a very deep T draft. If we took a C in the first we could get a serviceable guy in the second or third round.. C isnt as deep, but its also in less demand...

I don't think C is worth first round. You don't need top of the league talent at some positions unless Tomlin us yiur coach. Then you need it almost everywhere. I'd go Tackle or WR if someone special is there.