Say what you want about Cowher
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Jesus faced a lot of scrutiny in his days too
The rehabilitation of Bill Cowher around here is nothing short of amazing. In the offseason before the 2005 season, I remember going round and round with guys who said since Cowher hasn't won anything yet, he never will. I could never figure out what one had to do with the other, but overwhelmingly that was the opinion. Now the guy is a water walker.
I wonder if that works for average Joes like me. I had this girlfriend my senior year in high school. This was 30 years ago. She was great looking then, and she still is. I see her around on occasion. Of course, I managed to **** it up. I wonder if, like Cowher, time would make me look like the greatest thing ever.
I wonder if that works for average Joes like me. I had this girlfriend my senior year in high school. This was 30 years ago. She was great looking then, and she still is. I see her around on occasion. Of course, I managed to **** it up. I wonder if, like Cowher, time would make me look like the greatest thing ever.
Cowher was and is 10 times the coach Mikey is. The only reason Mikey has had any success is because cowher left him filet mignon that he has managed to turn it into last nights meat loaf.
Having said that, yeah cowher used to catch the same kind of crap.
Remember this?
http://web.archive.org/web/20031009110158/http://firecoachcowher.com/
If cowher's wife had not gotten cancer he would be neck and neck with bellichick for Lombardi's. The one Mikey won belongs to bill. We all know it deep down too.
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The major difference between Coach Cowher and Mr Tomlin can be seen in the fact that Coach Cowher went to several AFC championship games with O'Donell and Stewart and actually went to the Super Bowl with O'Donell. Coach Cowher won a Super Bowl almost as soon as he acquired a franchise QB. Mr Tomlin on the other hand has managed to get bounced out of the playoffs in the first round with a franchise QB. This is excluding the Super Bowls in his tenure where he did so with the core of the team made up with players from Cowhers tenure. As Elfie said we all know in our hearts that Mr Tomlin is wearing a ring that Coach Cowher got for him.
What is great about that is that it is one of the few times you can actually look back and see documented lunacy. They wanted to hire Jim Tressel or Larry Coker! How ******' stupid do they look now?
Which begs the question. 12 years out from right now, will all of the calls for Tomlin's head look as ridiculous? What I find humorous is I can say with absolute confidence that during that same time, on the old forum, I was one of the few voices in the wilderness defending Cowher. Now he is the greatest thing ever. All he guys who were pounding him certainly won't have the courage to admit that now, and it can't be proven. I would bet my damn house that most of the guys saying how much better Cowher is than Tomlin right now wanted Cowher gone in 2003. That is those that are over the age of 25. I gotta remember I may be arguing half the time with 20 year olds that don't know ****.
Overall, I too have soured on Tomlin. I am just mature enough to realize that if they do bring in someone else, it may all be roses for a while, but sooner or later that guy is going to do things that leave us all shaking our heads. And the cycle will continue.
The bottom line was that the game was handed to the Steelers multiple times last Thursday. Baltimore was rolling over for them with mistakes, but the Steelers coaches couldn't get out of their way and call a friggen couple plays that would have sealed the game WITHOUT THE KICKER as part of the strategy.
^This^
The championship has always gotten away from Cowher because he didn't have that franchise QB at the helm. He had Ben at 15-1 during Ben's rookie season. That next season they won it all. Cowher wasnt in it during that 2006 season. And there was crazy talent. I think if Cowher would have coached that 2007 squad during Tomlins first season. They would have won the Super Bowl that year. 2008 too
That plus they always played TurtleBall, aka MartyBall, which gets you a lot of wins in the regular season but doesn't work so well in the playoffs where every team is pretty good and you need to keep your foot on the throttle and score points. Difference in '05 was that 1) Cowher got out of his own way and let Whiz open up the offense and 2) they didn't have to face the Pats** in the playoffs*. A franchise QB like Ben matters a lot but so does the head coach's philosophy.
* Remember that while the Steelers got to three SB's in six years they never had to face the Pats** in the playoffs any of those times. Beicheat and Brady were LeBeau's kryptonite.
Good point in bringing up Whisenhunt. Ben and the offense were on fire during that 2005 playoff run. I think they could have beaten the Pats if called for that season. I rember Denver absolutely destroying NE during the playoffs. Then you have the Steelers going into Denver just rolling. Terrible performance by Ben in the Super Bowl that season. I think Cowher approached that game with Ben too conservatively
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I see the turtle ball stuff as a huge myth. Ben was horrible in the SB. You want to throw it more? Makes no sense. In the AFCC game with the pats**** Ben was picked off 3 times out of only 24 passes. But somehow people think Cowher was too conservative. Even when Cowher had Kordell he threw the ball a ton. Against the pats***** in the AFCC game in 2001 Kordell threw 3 picks but threw it 41 times. Yep, Cowher sure turtled in that game. It's a myth that Cowher was a run, run, pass, punt coach. Don't get me started on the Denver AFCC game when Kordell threw the game away.
I don't think championships got away from Cowher because he didn't have a franchise guy, or turtleball for that matter, either. If the guy was good enough to get you that, or the system you ran was good enough to get that far, it should have been good enough to win it all. The fact is that the players didn't play well in those big moments. Everybody's favorite from that era, Joey Porter, didn't do **** in the playoffs until the year they won it, as an example.
This applies to all coaches, including the one we have now. Players have to make plays. That is what makes any coach, from Lombardi on down, look good.
This applies to all coaches, including the one we have now. Players have to make plays. That is what makes any coach, from Lombardi on down, look good.
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If you look at all the SBs you'll see a few QBs names over and over. There are occasions where you'll find a Doug Williams or a Trent Dilfer. But mostly you are going to find franchise HOF type QBs. You can only go so far with average QBs unless you have great talent everywhere else. Williams doesn't sniff a SB unless the Redskins dominate the Broncos... and they did. Same with the rats dominating the Giants. It's always been hard to win with average QBs. It can be done but you better have everything else going you way by a large margin. It doesn't happen often.
See, that is what makes this hard, and why I get upset when people say it's all on Tomlin, or when they used to say it is all on Cowher. I have soured on Tomlin too, but the fact is that if the kicker does his job last Thursday, or Vick completes and easy pass, or Coates holds on to the ball, the game is won. Plain and simple.
The '94 AFCC is an illustration of this. Yea, they didn't have a franchise QB, but O'Donnell throws for 354 yards and drives them up and down the field. Would have a franchise guy played any better that day? Should have been enough to put them in the Super Bowl. Outside of the QB, they were easily in the top 3 talent wise in the league that year, SF and Dallas the others. But all that being said, they have a veteran corner who lets a guy get behind him. You can be damn sure he was coached not to allow that. You have a fat, out of shape TE who catches a deep ball down the seam but stumbles and falls on his fat *** after catching the ball. He stays on his feet he may score, and there is no 3 more yards ****. I am sure there was more I can't think of right now. I just cannot blame a coach for that.
You can not blame a coach for everything, but coaches can also have severe impacts on the game. For example if we are playing a team with a decimated secondary and run run run that makes 0 sense. Also in our loss to Baltimore last year they played scared because Bell was not there. We should have leaned on Ben and let him sling it or at least try instead of trying to run with scrubs (one of which was newly acquired). Coaches need to find / exploit the other teams weakness and put the players in the best chance to succeed. If the players do not execute then that is on them, but our current coach does not seem to grasp the concept of game planning or strategy. Coaches also decide who plays where / when. This team has made many many questionable sit / start / inactive decisions along with questionable drafting.
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S.F. had a franchise QB and would have probably beaten the Steelers easily. It isn't always about coaching. I understand that. My issue with Tomlin is that he has a franchise QB, the best WR and RB in the league. What's his excuse? He had those last year and couldn't beat the rats in the playoffs at home. Yes, he was missing Bell. But is this offense so bad that it can't handle one playoff game without him? Even with Ben, Miller, Brown, Wheaton, Bryant ETC. To me that's on coaching. The rats game this year is on coaching. The game is 99% won. Just don't make a bad decision... then they make several bad decisions and lose. Coaching is putting the players in the best chance to win based on their ability and weaknesses. Putting the game in the hands of Vick instead of your best player is on the coaches. If Bell fails then so be it.
I definitely agree with that last sentence I would of slept better if they had tried Bell
I agree with you, and you would get no kick from me if when a loss is discussed, a thoughtful approach like that is taken. However, I ask you, how many times, after a loss, have posters stated, "This is all on Tomlin?" When Cowher was here, you read quite a bit that it was all on him when they lost.
As per the current coach, I agree with what appears to be his inability to game plan and strategy. I have been left shaking my head as to what the hell is going on out there. I also think that it is fair to say watching on TV we do not entirely know what is game planning and strategy issues or just the players ******* it up. We can site many examples, but I remember Tomlin getting ripped for the Super Bowl against the Packers, the way the game was handled. But dammit, if Kemo blocks his guy, that very well could be a TD to Wallace and a 14 point swing. Later on, Ben throws a pick over the middle trying to force the ball to Wallace and he has Miller wide open in the seam. He may have scored untouched. If those things happen, there is no discussion on strategy, but there may be a discussion on whether or not Tomlin is HOF worthy as afterall, he would have 2 SB rings.
Maybe. Would have been fun to see, though.
How can you on one hand say that they should have beaten the Rats in the playoffs without Bell, but then turn around and say that Tomlin ****** up in this latest game because he didn't use his best player, Bell? If you use your first premise, they should have still beaten the Rats this time regardless of what was called.
I certainly agree they should have used Bell. I disagree the assumption that people would have been assuaged if they used Bell and lost. It would have been something like, why the **** did they use him running that play?
I know it seems like I am defending Tomlin. I'm really not. If they fired the guy, I'd be fine with it. He is not getting better. I don't know. I just am trying to look at the big picture.
In this scenario there is a big difference between having Ben vs Vick as your QB
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In the rats playoff game Ben is playing. He isn't playing last week. So your best player on offense (Ben) is out last week. There is no excuse for losing a home playoff game with Ben healthy and all those weapons only scoring 15 points by the offense.
I don't really care if the fans liked the play call last week. Bell is your best offensive player right now because Vick had only practiced two days. He's a 35 year old backup who doesn't know the offense and has a history of not learning the plays. I'll be damned if I lose with the ball in his hands. Not when Bell is fresh and running for about 6 yards a clip.
Cowher's playoff losses by year:
1992 #1 AFC Seed AT HOME Blown out 24-3
1993 lost in Wild card game AT HOME to KC in OT
1994 lost AFCC AT HOME vs a much less talented SD team.
1995 Lost Superbowl by 10 points
1996 Blown out in NE 28-3
1997 lost AT HOME vs Denver
2001 lost AT HOME vs NE
2002 Lost in OT at Tennessee (very good game)
2004 Blown out AT HOME 41-27 vs NE
2005 YAY Superbowl Win!!! (not a single home playoff game)
Until Cowher won a Superbowl he was terrible at home in the playoffs. Fortunately we didn't have a home game in 2005
We were humiliated in 92, 96, and 04. All games at home. Also lost a ton of close games at home when we were the team with the superior seed. Cowher was terrible at home in the playoffs.
I'm not giving Tomlin a pass, We should have won the JAX playoff game and the Tebow Den game, but we were outplayed and lost close. The ravens game last season was a humiliating loss, especially since they didn't even compete. Poor coaching decision not to go spread the entire game, forcing their 7th and 8th DBs to be on the field. I can forgive a luck play vs Tebow in OT, or a blown holding call on 4th down vs JAX to give them a win, but not competing at home in the playoffs is not acceptable.
You can spout out how franchise QBs are the reason for winning, but in the 70s - 2000 you could win with defense. We had the defense to win each of Cowher's playoff losses, and the D usually underperformed in those losses. It was frustrating to have to lose to an inferior team at home year after ******* year, and last year felt like that. Last year was the first game in the playoffs we had with Tomlin, when we didn't have a chance to win that game at the end. Cowher had 4 gut wrenching playoff exits where we weren't even in the game and another 4 playoff exits that hurt, but at least we competed in those games.
Be fair Tomlin haters. He has a way to go to catch up to Cowher's home playoff futility...
1992 #1 AFC Seed AT HOME Blown out 24-3
1993 lost in Wild card game AT HOME to KC in OT
1994 lost AFCC AT HOME vs a much less talented SD team.
1995 Lost Superbowl by 10 points
1996 Blown out in NE 28-3
1997 lost AT HOME vs Denver
2001 lost AT HOME vs NE
2002 Lost in OT at Tennessee (very good game)
2004 Blown out AT HOME 41-27 vs NE
2005 YAY Superbowl Win!!! (not a single home playoff game)
Until Cowher won a Superbowl he was terrible at home in the playoffs. Fortunately we didn't have a home game in 2005
We were humiliated in 92, 96, and 04. All games at home. Also lost a ton of close games at home when we were the team with the superior seed. Cowher was terrible at home in the playoffs.I'm not giving Tomlin a pass, We should have won the JAX playoff game and the Tebow Den game, but we were outplayed and lost close. The ravens game last season was a humiliating loss, especially since they didn't even compete. Poor coaching decision not to go spread the entire game, forcing their 7th and 8th DBs to be on the field. I can forgive a luck play vs Tebow in OT, or a blown holding call on 4th down vs JAX to give them a win, but not competing at home in the playoffs is not acceptable.
You can spout out how franchise QBs are the reason for winning, but in the 70s - 2000 you could win with defense. We had the defense to win each of Cowher's playoff losses, and the D usually underperformed in those losses. It was frustrating to have to lose to an inferior team at home year after ******* year, and last year felt like that. Last year was the first game in the playoffs we had with Tomlin, when we didn't have a chance to win that game at the end. Cowher had 4 gut wrenching playoff exits where we weren't even in the game and another 4 playoff exits that hurt, but at least we competed in those games.
Be fair Tomlin haters. He has a way to go to catch up to Cowher's home playoff futility...
I still think Cowher will coach again....if Coughlin ever leaves.
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