Steeler Fans Have No Idea What a #1 Receiver Is…

[SteelerInLebanon]

How am I hating on Johnson by simply not calling him elite? He's not. I have him in the 20-25 range of wide receivers and believe they should extend his contract.

Ok hate may be a strong word. I simply disagree that he isn't better right now than about half the guys on that list. His production was incredible considering the offense he was in. Imagine if he had a QB who had time in the pocket or could move the pocket. He would have been top 5 at worst.

 

[insaniti]

Johnson can get open with the best of them, but he hasn't shown that consistent big play ability or making the tough contested catch like others do.

These are the guys (when healthy) I believe are better than Johnson :

Ja'Marr Chase
Stefon Diggs
Tyreek Hill
Keenan Allen
Mike Williams
AJ Brown
Brandin Cooks
CeeDee Lamb
Cooper Kupp
Odell Beckham Jr.
DeAndre Hopkins
Deebo Samuel
DK Metcalf
Tyler Lockett
DeVante Adams
Justin Jefferson
Mike Evans
Chris Godwin
Antonio Brown
Michael Thomas

Then there's a group of Tee Higgins, Terry McLaurin, Michael Pittman Jr., Jaylen Waddle, Devonta Smith that have arguments. I have DJ somewhere in this crowd right now.

Again, he's a very talented wide receiver who has only increased his productive throughout his career. He's just not an elite No. 1.

Seven of these guys took at least four years to get to their current level, a few I completely laugh at you saying they are better than DJ (Brandon Cooks, Tyler Lockett)... but again, Chase, Lamb, Williams, Jefferson, Beckham, Hopkins, Evans all first round picks. And DJ is still right in the thick of things after only his 3rd year. If he had been with us when we had Haley's offense, his numbers would be MUCH bigger.

 

[FSF]

Here is the question, what kind of numbers would DJ have put up if he played with Ben from 2014-2018?

I'm betting he'd have caught 100+ with over 1200 yards multiple times - then everybody's opinion changes. As it was, he got Big Ben post elbow injury. 90% of his catches were short patterns with no chance to break away from the coverage and find the opening in the field for Ben to launch it to.

Ben made big plays to Martavis Byrant, Marcus Wheaton and Sammie Coates, then JuJu just was a beast for his two years with peak Ben.

But the talking heads all said a guy who caught 111 passes for over 1400 yards "was not a #1 WR" - that is just something so mind numbingly stupid I cannot wrap my head around it because it was only in comparison to the production of AB, who only cared about his stats to begin with.

If JuJu put those same numbers up with Brady, they'd have sung him as the best WR in football.

Point is, the #1 WR is nothing more than a reflection of how good the team is and how good a WRs production is. Just look at OBJ with Baker Mayfield vs. with Matthew Stafford... OBJ was considered "done" by the talking heads and he was critical towards the Rams winning the Super Bowl. Despite having Cooper Kupp, the Rams offense practically shut down in the Super Bowl once OBJ tore his ACL - but Kupp is the #1 WR, right?

Who the **** cares? One WR helps benefit the other - #1 WR is nothing more than a media created bunch of bullshit.

 

[FSF]

He had 170 targets caught 53 percent, 1100 yards also had a HOF qb throwing at him… Jamarr chase had less targets almost 1500 yards… waddle another rookie caught 63 percent with a scatter armed qb... those were just the rookies that were better. Johnson is average that’s it and that’s all... he’s 5’10 180 he’s doesn’t catch the ball in traffic well not even mentioning about his drops. Worse thing you could do to rookie qb is match him up with DJ. he’s going to want big money and he’s just average. Trade him now! same with highsmith he’s got pumped up numbers starting with Watt and IH2. Worlds did the same. Remember worlds?? Same~o ****! Trade them while you can get something better or equal to them. Trade up or stock pike picks but is a team that can’t afford to just watch players walk out the door. Learn from the bell and AB fiasco! Learn from past! Those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it! DOOMED I tell ya!!! DOOOOMMMEDDDD!!!

I remember Jason Worilds, who was a reserve OLB when the starters were James Harrison and Lamar Woodley and the Steelers defense finished #2, #1 and #1 in his first 3 seasons. He was just coming into his own after only two years starting when he decided to retire for religious purposes.

Think that departure didn't hurt? Imagine the team not wasting a #1 pick on Jarvis Jones because of the uncertainty of Woodley's injuries and a retiring Worilds.

 

[Steeltime]

Johnson is a very good receiver. If he played the Y, I think he dominates. But he lacks a bit of size and a tick of speed to make him a guy the defense must plan around.

No. 1 receivers are guys the defense designs their gameplan to stop. DJ just is not that guy.

 

[Stryker]

I remember Jason Worilds, who was a reserve OLB when the starters were James Harrison and Lamar Woodley and the Steelers defense finished #2, #1 and #1 in his first 3 seasons. He was just coming into his own after only two years starting when he decided to retire for religious purposes.

Think that departure didn't hurt? Imagine the team not wasting a #1 pick on Jarvis Jones because of the uncertainty of Woodley's injuries and a retiring Worilds.

He was the #1 Edge player in FA that year. Philly fans were all over him, hoping the'd join them. Then he retires.

Some people just aren't made to play football for a long time.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Johnson is a very good receiver. If he played the Y, I think he dominates. But he lacks a bit of size and a tick of speed to make him a guy the defense must plan around.

No. 1 receivers are guys the defense designs their gameplan to stop. DJ just is not that guy.

That’s the thing…..DJ has speed, enough to break the press and get behind the DB. I don’t know how many times Ben threw behind him when he had a couple steps on the DB. Ben 4 or 5 years ago would had him in stride.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I hate the #1 WR schtick and don’t give a flying **** about it.

Never believed that there was such a thing as #1 WR, especially when you have a pair that can easily beat you in different ways. Who really was the Steelers #1 WR when it was Burress & Ward? Ward made majorly of catches but Burress made the big plays & wasn’t lacking in production.

It’s ridiculous & just something for talking heads to blabber about

It isn't just the talking heads blabbering. Case in point, my employee is a chiefs fan but easily swayed by the talking heads as to fair play / #1s and #2s etc. Talking to him is like either #1 is working or you are going to lose, not a chance for a #2 or #3 to beat you.....................




Salute the nation

 

[FSF]

It isn't just the talking heads blabbering. Case in point, my employee is a chiefs fan but easily swayed by the talking heads as to fair play / #1s and #2s etc. Talking to him is like either #1 is working or you are going to lose, not a chance for a #2 or #3 to beat you.....................




Salute the nation

Here’s the thing with KC Drink IRON City

They don’t have a #1 WR as much as they only have 1 good WR.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Here’s the thing with KC Drink IRON City

They don’t have a #1 WR as much as they only have 1 good WR.

Fully agree but employee can't see that due to his talking head syndome.




Salute the nation

 

[FSF]

Fully agree but employee can't see that due to his talking head syndome.




Salute the nation

I didn’t know you were Nick Wrights boss!

 

[Drink IRON City]

I didn’t know you were Nick Wrights boss!

2 breakfasts this morning one normal and one through y nose backwards............... HILLARIOUS !!!!





Salute the nation

 

[bigben]

Johnson is never going to be Antonio Brown. He gets great separation makes some amazing plays.
Problem is
The guy ***** the bed at the worst possible time, biggest games, when he's needed most. Kind of similar to JuJu's worst plays at the worst time.
It must be a mental thing, ain't fixing that, ask Peyton Manning. Greatest regular season QB of all time. Also the biggest playoff choke artist.
Ben was no manning in the regular season, but Ben is a winner and ALWAYS came through in the biggest moments, even in his final year.
Ben was always CLUTCH. you either got it or you don't.
Johnson doesn't have it.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Johnson is never going to be Antonio Brown. He gets great separation makes some amazing plays.
Problem is
The guy ***** the bed at the worst possible time, biggest games, when he's needed most. Kind of similar to JuJu's worst plays at the worst time.
It must be a mental thing, ain't fixing that, ask Peyton Manning. Greatest regular season QB of all time. Also the biggest playoff choke artist.
Ben was no manning in the regular season, but Ben is a winner and ALWAYS came through in the biggest moments, even in his final year.
Ben was always CLUTCH. you either got it or you don't.
Johnson doesn't have it.

Lol…..Two SB, 1 SB MVP, 5 x League MVP, HOF All 2000 member, 7 x All Pro. 40 TDs in 25 Playoff games……yeah playoff choke artist….sure.

 

[madinsomniac]

Here’s the thing with KC Drink IRON City

They don’t have a #1 WR as much as they only have 1 good WR.

Who basically had the same stats DJ had

 

[madinsomniac]

Our issue wasn’t the top 2 wrs… it was that we need another top threat to really open stuff up… Washington was a bust this year, juju basically had one giant injured year, and rayray is meh…

 

[FSF]

Who basically had the same stats DJ had

Maybe you are referring to Kelce, but DJ was close to Tyreek Hill

DJ: 169 targets, 107 receptions, 1161 yards, 8 TDs
T Hill: 159 targets, 111 receptions, 1239 yards, 9 TDs

This is not to say DJ is better than or comparable to Hill because Hill has a 6 year record of high performance and DJ has 2 years.

But DJ has been limited in what the offensive scheme was allowing him to do. Ben pre-elbow vs. Ben post-elbow, they were two different players. DJ never got to play with the extend the play Ben and quite frankly its unlikely he's going to put up big numbers next season considering he won't have a HoF QB under center, at least unless we get a QB with at least the ability to match what Tommy Maddox could do at a minimum. I could see him really doing well if we got Winston for example.

All you have to do is watch a few games from 2014-2018 Ben and you see that not only did he have time, even when it broke down he could make guys miss and throw it on the run. In fact, teams rarely blitzed those Steelers teams and we faced a lot of coverage and 3 man fronts. Think about the last time you saw a defense play back with only rushing three? It happened early in 2020, but teams adapted especially when Baltimore figured it out in week 7.

I would like to see what he can do with a QB that extend the play. We're NOT going to find a guy who could do it like Ben could as he is maybe the best ever in that dept. But even a slight amount of mobility to step up in the pocket and make a team pay for being too aggressive will open things up and we might see a little more of what he is capable of.

 

[FSF]

Johnson is never going to be Antonio Brown. He gets great separation makes some amazing plays.
Problem is
The guy ***** the bed at the worst possible time, biggest games, when he's needed most. Kind of similar to JuJu's worst plays at the worst time.
It must be a mental thing, ain't fixing that, ask Peyton Manning. Greatest regular season QB of all time. Also the biggest playoff choke artist.
Ben was no manning in the regular season, but Ben is a winner and ALWAYS came through in the biggest moments, even in his final year.
Ben was always CLUTCH. you either got it or you don't.
Johnson doesn't have it.

You're basing this on 1 playoff game and 2 games last year?

DJ wasn't the only one sucking in that game. Regardless, saying he always ***** the bed with a sample size so small is ridiculous. He hasn't proven to be clutch yet, but just as a comparison - if Plaxico Burress catches a Tommy Maddox ball that hit him between the 8 and the 0 in the 2002 AFC Divisional round, we are in the AFC Championship that year. Burress proved to be pretty good in the long run, at least till he shot himself like an idiot, though he certainly gave the Patriots fits.

And maybe you would have said Holmes was a choker if he didn't make the harder catch after letting the easy one at the end of Super Bowl 43 go right through his hands.

Give the guy a real chance and then make that call. He works his *** off and is the opposite of a diva. IMO, he's earned the right to get a chance

 

[bigben]

You're basing this on 1 playoff game and 2 games last year?

DJ wasn't the only one sucking in that game. Regardless, saying he always ***** the bed with a sample size so small is ridiculous. He hasn't proven to be clutch yet, but just as a comparison - if Plaxico Burress catches a Tommy Maddox ball that hit him between the 8 and the 0 in the 2002 AFC Divisional round, we are in the AFC Championship that year. Burress proved to be pretty good in the long run, at least till he shot himself like an idiot, though he certainly gave the Patriots fits.

And maybe you would have said Holmes was a choker if he didn't make the harder catch after letting the easy one at the end of Super Bowl 43 go right through his hands.

Give the guy a real chance and then make that call. He works his *** off and is the opposite of a diva. IMO, he's earned the right to get a chance

Taking away the untimely drops. Statistically Dionte is not even close to a #1 production wise.

Career
Receptions/game
Brown 6.4
Johnson 5.4

Yd/Catch
Brown 13.2
Johnson 10.9

Completion %
Brown 66%
Johnson 62.7%

YD/Game
Brown 84.2
Johnson 58.8

 

[FSF]

Taking away the untimely drops. Statistically Dionte is not even close to a #1 production wise.

Career
Receptions/game
Brown 6.4
Johnson 5.4

Yd/Catch
Brown 13.2
Johnson 10.9

Completion %
Brown 66%
Johnson 62.7%

YD/Game
Brown 84.2
Johnson 58.8

This is insulting. Really?

And you wasted the time to look these numbers up to prove what point?

Number 1: take Browns first 3 years to do an accurate comparison.

Number 2: if you even tried to comprehend the offensive scheme & ways defenses adapted post Ben elbow injury, you’d see that teams would rarely blitz Ben 2014-18. He would burn you. Lot of 3 & 4 man rushes. When was last time Ben dropped back vs. only 3 man rush? Ben made lot of WRs look phenomenal — DJ would have thrived in that system.

Your data is useless

 

[Stryker]

Taking away the untimely drops. Statistically Dionte is not even close to a #1 production wise.

Career
Receptions/game
Brown 6.4
Johnson 5.4

Yd/Catch
Brown 13.2
Johnson 10.9

Completion %
Brown 66%
Johnson 62.7%

YD/Game
Brown 84.2
Johnson 58.8

Run those numbers in their first 3 years and you get vastly different results.

AB in first 3 years:

Receptions/game 3.97

Completion % 60.6

YD/Catch
13.65

YD/Game
54.21

Apples to apples in their first 3 years, DJ is ahead of AB on all Metrics except yards/catch, but hey AB had Ben in is prime and didn't have to catch passes from Duck, Rudolph and a dead armed Ben.

For fun, you should check out AB's stats when Ben wasn't throwing him the ball in Pit. They are dogshit.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Apples to apples in their first 3 years, DJ is ahead of AB on all Metrics except yards/catch, but hey AB had Ben in is prime and didn't have to catch passes from Duck, Rudolph and a dead armed Ben.

For fun, you should check out AB's stats when Ben wasn't throwing him the ball in Pit. They are dogshit.

I'm embarrassed how many times over the past few years I thought "AB would've caught that" when our receivers failed to make a big play.

AB left in a mess, but at the top of his game he was one of the best ever. You cannot say the same for DJ, Claypool, JuJu, or anyone who has caught a ball from Ben since AB was traded.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

How much of it was mean ol Haley, vs. Fichtner/Canada?

 

[Drink IRON City]

Johnson is a very good receiver. If he played the Y, I think he dominates. But he lacks a bit of size and a tick of speed to make him a guy the defense must plan around.

No. 1 receivers are guys the defense designs their gameplan to stop. DJ just is not that guy.

I'm pretty sure defenses did plan around DJ. Not sure about this up coming season pending on QB play.




Salute the nation

 

[Coach]

I'm not sure a majority of the fans feel that way, but rather that DJ isn't an elite No. 1.

Packers - Adams
Bucs - Evans, Godwin, Brown (if he didn't go AWOL)
Cowboys - Lamb, Cooper
Rams - Kupp, OBJ
Cardinals - Hopkins
Eagles - Smith
Titans - Brown
Chiefs - Hill
Bills - Diggs
Bengals - Chase
Raiders - Renfrow
Patriots - Bourne

These are just the playoff teams. DJ is probably in the 14-15 range, at best, just among these teams. Btw, I'm favor of re-signing him, but also acknowledge the Steelers will eventually need to find a stud No. 1. They may have the chance in the first round this year.

Re-signing him will cost top 10 money at WR with Johnson is not. This is a way to ruin your cap by overpaying good talent like their very good or great. We can find a good receiver in the draft, and he won't cost 10+ million a year. The only must sign is Fitz.