Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

[Tibs]

He isn't going to break any tackles. How many times in the NFL have you seen a guy return a punt untouched?... I just don't see him having an impact in the NFL.

On Dri Archer breaking tackles:

Alex Khvatov: Can you name one thing that makes you a unique individual?
Dri Archer: My ability to make people miss and break tackles. It is not easy to tackle me.
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/driarcher.html

Archer shows the ability to keep his feet under him while breaking tackles and uses the defenders momentum against him.
http://www.draftfalcons.com/?p=671

Archer has always had long speed, but he displayed some tackle breaking ability against Ohio.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131876/dri-archer

His style is similar to Barry Sanders in that Archer runs with a low center of gravity and displays tremendous balance. He breaks tackles by deflecting hits rather than absorbing them.
http://www.football.com/en-us/de-anthony-thomas-vs-dri-archer-cut-from-the-same-mold/

And again, I refer you Archer-haters to this interview with the Kent State offensive coordinator, where he talks about his great vision and skill running with the ball. Pay particular attention to where he says opposing teams based their entire defensive gameplan around stopping Archer. http://www.970espn.com/media/podcast-david-todd-David_Todd/david-with-brian-rock-51414-24771269/

But for you, he's a flyweight who'll just fall to the turf the second a defender breathes on him.

 

[slashsteel]

I am liking this debate. Some interesting points...........

Let me sprinkle in a few tidbits.

Arch stated in his interview he was hobbled to game 4. So at that point we have to assume he was healthy enough to contribute.

Not that this is the case but sometimes schools simply misuse or miss the bus on how to use a player.

And there is the possibility that Arch was simply not flashing as a punt returner.

Now back to the headlined debate.

hi

 

[Vader]

Very short and rail thin with no strength or running power. Not a tackle-breaker and goes down easy on contact.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/dri-archer?id=2543596

Plays hard but it doesn't take much to knock him off of his feet.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1725062/dri-archer

Although he doesn’t shy away from physicality, bigger defenders won’t have an issue getting the smaller Archer off his feet.
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/...draft-profile-dri-archer/?doFsZuyelzTGeJKS.99

Not a lot of yards after contact. When defenders can actually get their hands on him, he goes down pretty easily
http://beargoggleson.com/2014/05/02/2014-nfl-draft-prospect-profile-kent-state-rbwrkr-dri-archer/

While he is not a guy who is going to break many tackles from guys who can get two hands on him, he will break arm tackles of guys trying to grab anything in hopes of slowing him down
http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/05...e-season-break-down-dri-archer-rb-kent-state/

Archer lacks the necessary power/strength to break tackles on the next level; He lacks the body type and overall playing style to run inside in the pros…Needs to become a more refined route runner to consistently win versus NFL athletes
http://firstroundgrade.com/2014/04/20/scouting-the-wrs-dri-archer-kent-state/

And I could find many many more. But I'm sure asking a player if he is easy to take down is more reliable than watching the tape.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

dumbass urban meyer recruiting fat *** Carlos Hyde ,,, so Dri takes all that tackle missing ability down the road to Kent State...

 

[Tibs]

Just watch the first few minutes of this game tape. What do you see?

- I see Archer break a couple of arm tackles for a long KR to open the game
- I see Archer shoulder-fake a defender and take it in for a TD run
- I see Archer on a short underneath route get a decent gain and power into three tacklers
- I see Archer burst through the line for short gain initiating contact with defenders
- I see Archer get caught behind the line of scrimmage for a short loss
- I see Archer break a tackle and get a nice 8 yard gain
- I see Archer bring back a 98 yard KR for TD untouched. Not his fault he's so god damn elusive & fast.
- I see a couple of bad throws by Kent State QB
- I see Archer burst through the line, break a tackle, and scamper in from 20 yds out

What don't I see:

- Archer avoiding/ afraid of contact
- Archer not breaking tackles
- Archer being hesitant or indecisive
- Archer not showing great skill & vision
- Archer being six feet tall, weighing 200 pounds

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

63 you mean 73?
Thanks tibs for your insight

 

[Tibs]

....with no strength.

Sorry, I had to stop right there. Archer is pound-for-pound as strong as you'd ever want a multi-purpose scat back to be. Haters will be haters, cliché notwithstanding, is as true as ever.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What about catching with a defense running at him? What about his massive fumble problem? His injury history? There's more to it than catching the punt.

Really. If he can catch the punts which by accounts he can do you really think people running down field is an issue. He is a RB first and foremost. Defenses have been chasing him his whole career. I doubt he is scared to run the ball. Dont over complicate things. Catch the ball run.

 

[Vader]

You either didn't watch the first few minutes or you didn't think anyone else would. 1:35 stopped easily in the backfield. 1:50 tripped up by a hand so bad that he stumbled 10 yards and goes out of bounds. The KR TD he isn't even touched. 2:52 can't catch a short pass because he has the catch radius of a fly. 3:32 drops an easy pass while wide open. 6:01 drops an easy TD. Hits him in the chest and he just drops it. He always catches the ball with his body. 7:20 gets blown up when one defender can line him up.

I know one thing. I've watched several of his games and they are all the same. He isn't a WR. He's a RB. He catches with his body. He is very explosive and quick. He can run inside and outside. But that is against players who will be saying "you want fries with that" on Sunday, not playing in the NFL. I understand he is dynamic and have several good runs. One hell of a run where he was spun around and kept his feet. But again this is the NFL not Buffalo. His OL did a hell of a job as well. The QB had time to wait 4 seconds before handing him the ball. They used a lot of miss direction. He was clearly better than most the defensive players. I just don't think it will translate to the NFL.

 

[Vader]

Sorry, I had to stop right there. Archer is pound-for-pound as strong as you'd ever want a multi-purpose scat back to be. Haters will be haters, cliché notwithstanding, is as true as ever.

Yea, and lovers will be lovers. Brilliant analysis.

 

[Tibs]

Btw, the funniest thing to me in the entire anti-Archer onslaught is that somehow this kid isn't a great football player. How did he compile nearly 5,000 multi-purpose yards and score 40 TD's while somehow not knowing how to break/avoid tackles, catch the ball, read defenses, not be able to handle contact, etc.? He's short of stature, we get it. But to say he's just a speed guy and incessantly pointing out his flaws - while ignoring his football skills - is truly not seeing the forest from the trees.

 

[slashsteel]

You either didn't watch the first few minutes or you didn't think anyone else would. 1:35 stopped easily in the backfield. 1:50 tripped up by a hand so bad that he stumbled 10 yards and goes out of bounds. The KR TD he isn't even touched. 2:52 can't catch a short pass because he has the catch radius of a fly. 3:32 drops an easy pass while wide open. 6:01 drops an easy TD. Hits him in the chest and he just drops it. He always catches the ball with his body. 7:20 gets blown up when one defender can line him up.

I know one thing. I've watched several of his games and they are all the same. He isn't a WR. He's a RB. He catches with his body. He is very explosive and quick. He can run inside and outside. But that is against players who will be saying "you want fries with that" on Sunday, not playing in the NFL. I understand he is dynamic and have several good runs. One hell of a run where he was spun around and kept his feet. But again this is the NFL not Buffalo. His OL did a hell of a job as well. The QB had time to wait 4 seconds before handing him the ball. They used a lot of miss direction. He was clearly better than most the defensive players. I just don't think it will translate to the NFL.

I think he is a good enough runner to get some splash play opportunities.
I also think he will be a solid kick returner.
Short yardage WR perhaps.

Sometimes all you need is one two plays to spark a team.

Perhaps he can provide that.

provided his frame holds up against faster bigger more physical defensive players.

I like to show two sides of the dice.

Hopefully he doesn't crap out early........

 

[Tibs]

Brilliant analysis.

So besides all of his other faults you love to drool over, you don't think Archer is "strong enough" to be an NFL player?

 

[Vader]

Btw, the funniest thing to me in the entire anti-Archer onslaught is that somehow this kid isn't a great football player. How did he compile nearly 5,000 multi-purpose yards and score 40 TD's while somehow not knowing how to break/avoid tackles, catch the ball, read defenses, not be able to handle contact, etc.? He's short of stature, we get it. But to say he's just a speed guy and incessantly pointing out his flaws - while ignoring his football skills - is truly not seeing the forest from the trees.

Troy Edwards: 6000 all purpose yards while scoring 57 TDs. Forrest for trees indeed.

 

[Vader]

So besides all of his other faults you love to drool over, you don't think Archer is "strong enough" to be an NFL player?

There isn't ONE analysis of him that says he'll be an every down football player. Please tell me why.

 

[Tibs]

Troy Edwards: 6000 all purpose yards while scoring 57 TDs. Forrest for trees indeed.

Good point. The huge difference? Edwards was a first round pick, that got a chance to show his worth in the league before blowing out as a huge bust. Archer? He's being crucified before playing a single game.

 

[Vader]

Good point. The huge difference? Edwards was a first round pick, that got a chance to show his worth in the league before blowing out as a huge bust. Archer? He's being crucified before playing a single game.

Edwards was crucified before playing a single game. I was here (whatever board it was) and it went ballistic. Almost the entire board wanted Kearse. I think it was TMC that almost went postal.

 

[Tibs]

Now I understand where the demons come from, if you guys are still sweating the Edwards pick.

 

[Tibs]

Btw, we hit 63, time to honor a great Steeler.

 

[Vader]

One of the best centers to ever play. Wish they could have gotten him a ring.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

up next..... Steve Furness..

 

[TMC]

Obviously, you aren't going to believe me. Here's some quotes from others.

Dave Brya highlighted recently, his head coach at Kent State recently devulged that the team had planned to use him as the team's punt returner this past season, before he suffered an anke injury that lingered throughout the course of the season.

Ed Bouchette, Archer working at both kick returns and punt returns, and said he is comfortable with both.

Mark Kaboly tweeted, shouldn't be worried about Archers ability to field punts because the kid catches everything.

Jim Wexell, he shows good hands shagging punts.

Yep, no chance...
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/05/dri-archer-allaying-fears-punt-return-ability/



Yep, they had 8 different people return kicks last year, 6 in 2012, 7 before that, and 8 his Freshman year. So he obviously can't do that either...



Obviously, they couldn't decide on a return guy in any aspect. I mean you average 40 yards a kick return lets try other guys maybe some can average 50!




You can spin it anyway you want it but anyone who remembers 1999-2001 knows Edwards was on the field all the ******* time! Even though he sucked and the only reason I can think was because he was the 13th overall pick!


There was NO reason that Adams should have started in the begining! They gave him the nod over Beachum clearly not because of his play but because of his draft status. Are you really that blind? You think Adams just did great in camp and blew Beachum out of the water then the season starts and he suddenly stinks? Yeah, right I am sure that's what happened.



What I am saying, and you are clearly not retaining is if you take a 1st round CB/WR/DE whatever vs their 7th round pick counterpart if the 7th out performs the first he still will be cut before the 1st. That simple.




OMFG!!!! Dude I put the link of my comments RIGHT BEFORE WE PICKED. Not changing showing exactly what I said.


Couldn't do with the fact the coach wanted a comittee in returning on kick and punts... nope. Or of injury or at least potential injury... nope.





Oh, no I know what you have said repeatedly. You know about JJ Watt, Troy Polamalu, Lawrence Timmons, Lee Suggs and now Dri Archer. Yep, you are never wrong.

Nope, certainly not going to believe quotes from reporters and his coach. His coach stated he was going to return punts prior to being injured. Why was he not used the previous 3 seasons he played? Bruised vagina?

As for his kick returns, in his freshman season, of the 50 or so kick returns, oddly enough Kent State allowed one guy to take the brunt of the action with Archer getting 11. His second season, the same two guys took the majority of the kick returns, with Archer getting the majority. In his junior season, two guys took the majority. Most kick return units have two deep backs splitting the field. In his final season, Calhoun took the majority. Oddly enough, they kind of settled on a pair of kick returners. Punt returner, somebody get out there and don't fumble it. In 4 years, he fielded 6. SIX. ******* SIX. In his whole collegiate career, he fielded six.

As for Hines and Edwards or Adams and Beachum, I do not have to spin anything. You said starts. I showed you where Hines started WAY more games. Then, it was snaps. But, with Adams, it is starts, and starts at the beginning of the season, because Beachum started more games over the course of the season. Beachum, the small, 7th round pick that lacks power and needed refinement, played while the 2nd round pick that many trumped as the best LT in the draft, rode the pine. And, you do not think they won't play an undrafted guy over a 1st round draft pick, check Lawrence Timmons. Not only did he have to change positions because of an undrafted, he sat behind Larry Foote. McLendon started over some higher drafted guys. Mike Logan started over the rookie Polamalu. Where was Logan drafted? He must have been a top 10 pick.

As for what you put up right before the pick, you stated in this thread that Archer had the best floor. WHICH THE **** IS IT?

As for not being wrong, I am wrong all the time. I easily admit it. But, what has Archer done to prove me wrong on him? Oh, wait, he caught punts on a windy day. HOF, here he comes......

 

[Idioteque]

Really. If he can catch the punts which by accounts he can do you really think people running down field is an issue. He is a RB first and foremost. Defenses have been chasing him his whole career. I doubt he is scared to run the ball. Dont over complicate things. Catch the ball run.

What I'm talking about is catching punts while special teams gunners are sprinting downfield and aiming for you with a 30-yard head start on him. Why do you think special teams and returns cause so many fumbles and injuries? I think it's awesome that you caught some punts in shorts with no defenders. I wonder what will happen when guys hit him while he's fielding it. Like TMC keeps asking, why do you guys think so many returns specialists flame out?

 

[antdrewjosh]

What I'm talking about is catching punts while special teams gunners are sprinting downfield and aiming for you with a 30-yard head start on him. Why do you think special teams and returns cause so many fumbles and injuries? I think it's awesome that you caught some punts in shorts with no defenders. I wonder what will happen when guys hit him while he's fielding it. Like TMC keeps asking, why do you guys think so many returns specialists flame out?

So a person who is used to defenses gunning for him is all of a sudden going to be scared running the ball I dont see it. CATCHING the ball is the issue. No one else is worried about gunners who arent allowed to hit you until you CATCH the ball. If he gets hit its not his fault is it. Its the players who supposed to be holding those players up. No one has said he WILL BE All Pro punt returner..he could be. The potential is there provided he can catch the ball. His vision, elusiveness are conducive to being a good to great punt returner.

 

[Vader]

So a person who is used to defenses gunning for him is all of a sudden going to be scared running the ball I dont see it. CATCHING the ball is the issue. No one else is worried about gunners who arent allowed to hit you until you CATCH the ball. If he gets hit its not his fault is it. Its the players who supposed to be holding those players up. No one has said he WILL BE All Pro punt returner..he could be. The potential is there provided he can catch the ball. His vision, elusiveness are conducive to being a good to great punt returner.

Which is strange considering that Kent State wouldn't use him to do that. I know he was hurt one year but he was there 4 years. It makes no sense. You have a guy so dynamic that most players can't touch him but you don't let him do the one thing that should be his specialty because why? Remember this is a position that changes field position and can break open a game yet they still don't use him. Why?