Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

[antdrewjosh]

I agree like highlights cant be found for every player in the draft like the above.

 

[TMC]

This has been my point of contention with all the anti-Archer hysteria. It's so over the top...some people hate this kid with a vengeance. Doesn't make sense to me, since he's a part of the team now.... Why people don't say, "hey, I didn't necessarily like the pick when it happened, but man, am I rooting for him to make a splash, hope he kicks *** and helps us win some games."

And some are so in love with him he is already on a pedestal. When someone states he is too small, people point out how fast he is and he can dodge all the hits. When someone points out he fumbles, there is a list of players that fumbled that are in the HOF. When someone shows he cannot catch, people talk about how polished a receiver he is. When someone points out how he did not field punts, people know he can do it because he did it in shorts.

Those that love him cannot accept that he has ANY flaws and that his flaws may be too great to overcome. We all have to hope he works out, some of us just recognize that the odds he will are extraordinarily slim. Others pimp him to be a shoe in for the HOF and will argue any negative thing said about him.

In fact, if you even state he is small, people have quoted Mike Tomlin in stating he is not small, he is short. Sorry, but RBs under 180 are ******* small, so small that the number that actually make it in the NFL can be counted on one hand and none have ever put together multiple average seasons.

 

[slashsteel]

I didn't get from this thread peeps hate the kid, they just preferred (in round 3) a full time possibility player over a player who will be sprinkled in a part time capacity.

I am sure every Steeler fan will be cheering him on to succeed. Even though the odds seemingly are against him holding up physically.

If some of the later picks pan out perhaps reaching for him won't irritate some as much. But let that late round CB fail, and people will possibly be throwing threads out in a similar manner to how Timmons has been spotlighted over the years..............

 

[antdrewjosh]

Every player has flaws. No player is perfect..archer will drop passes, fumble, miss a block, muff a punt, miss an assignment, get hurt just like every other player who has played this game.

 

[slashsteel]

Every player has flaws. No player is perfect..archer will drop passes, fumble, miss a block, muff a punt, miss an assignment, get hurt just like every other player who has played this game.

Although some can physically make it thru a decade. and others due to smallish stature more often than not, can't.

(the pot still isn't seasoned enough let us stir it some more)

 

[antdrewjosh]

And only time will tell who that will be. Some huge guys cant stay out of the training room. And at this point who cares how long the thread is. Aint **** else going on..its just discussion.

 

[steel pirate]

This has been my point of contention with all the anti-Archer hysteria. It's so over the top...some people hate this kid with a vengeance. Doesn't make sense to me, since he's a part of the team now.... Why people don't say, "hey, I didn't necessarily like the pick when it happened, but man, am I rooting for him to make a splash, hope he kicks *** and helps us win some games."

What doesn't make sense to me is the couple of posters that new jack swing on his nuts at every opportunity. It does make for a great thread though.

 

[Stryker]

I see an electric player. A RB with great vision and wiggle, and great receiving skill out of the backfield. As a receiver he is very limited due to his size and his poor hand placement. I still think he can be a weapon as a 4th/5th receiver, but he needs to polish his route running and improve his hand placement if he wants to be a consistent threat from the LOS.

TMC, I did notice the first clip you just referenced when watching the longer version, and I did like some parts of that terrible play. The ball was thrown behind him and was a lateral, though he missed the catch, he made damn sure he retained possession. He fought hard to get back to it, and I like that in a player, as opposed to standing around and doing nothing.

I also saw a couple things from his clips that should help us on offense. He is going to get horse collar flags. It seems to be the only way defenders can bring him to the ground if he beats them to the edge. Also being small and being lining up as a WR, he will get benefit of the doubt since he's a smaller player, and bang/bang plays will look like he's getting interfered with if he goes flying or takes a big hit. Not saying we can rely on these things, we can't, just something I noticed.

Also as a PR, His coach kept him out of PR duties his senior year, because he's an offensive weapon they want to keep heathy. Like we're doing with Brown now. Brown is easily the BEST PR we have on our team right now, but he won't be doing it this year because we want to protect the investment. Much like Kent St did. Also I still think Brown will be returning the fair catch punts this season. Our vets have always stepped in to do this. Make no mistake, despite the gnashing of teeth in this thread, the Steelers are going to give this kid every opportunity to see what he can do returning punts.

Here's one last measurable that is just insane, and I don't understand how it's not as incredible as it is. Not only did Dri put up the 2nd fasted 40 time ever at the combine, but he tied the record for the least amount of strides to complete the 40 yard run. He tied with the 6'5" Megatron! I expect tall players to long stride, but not a 5'8" kid. Out of the THOUSANDS of players that have run the 40 Not one player has run the 40 in less strides than Dri. Not ONE. For guys that are all over measurables, this is such an anomaly. He's not like other short backs. He is unique. Throwing up 22 reps is also pretty special for a "small" player.

I'm excited to see what he is capable of on the field. Do I expect TDs every play, no, but it would be nice to see one offensive player we picked up, provide some excitement for us.

 

[Tibs]

Nice post, Cope! Thanks for adding some much-needed sanity to this thread.

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

But but his arms are short he didn't have to lift it very far

 

[Superman]

And some are so in love with him he is already on a pedestal. When someone states he is too small, people point out how fast he is and he can dodge all the hits. When someone points out he fumbles, there is a list of players that fumbled that are in the HOF. When someone shows he cannot catch, people talk about how polished a receiver he is. When someone points out how he did not field punts, people know he can do it because he did it in shorts.

Those that love him cannot accept that he has ANY flaws and that his flaws may be too great to overcome. We all have to hope he works out, some of us just recognize that the odds he will are extraordinarily slim. Others pimp him to be a shoe in for the HOF and will argue any negative thing said about him.

In fact, if you even state he is small, people have quoted Mike Tomlin in stating he is not small, he is short. Sorry, but RBs under 180 are ******* small, so small that the number that actually make it in the NFL can be counted on one hand and none have ever put together multiple average seasons.

to clarify my stance...

he was absolutely without a doubt NOT the guy I wanted us to draft at that point. I was hoping for Jaylen Watkins, Bruce Ellington or Tiny Richardson. I'd have even been fine with Martavis Bryant at that point. The guy is very small, has issues and whatnot, and he's not the guy I would have selected.

Though, now that he is a Steeler, I have no choice but to root for his success while many of his detractors will only polish the bishop when he makes a mistake.

 

[fogdoctor]

He IS short. He IS very small, basically tiny. He does fumble too much and is sloppy with the ball. He IS going to be limited for touches. Can any of this even be argued?

On the other hand: He is strong as hell for his size. Hard worker. Insanely fast. And he has elite explosive numbers.

I did not like the pick but I understood the reasoning.

 

[Superman]

My hope is that somehow our coaching staff can correct his fumbles. Tiki Barber was a fumbler, and that was corrected. He may need to hold the ball differently or cover up more prior to contact.

His height cannot ever be corrected, but he can put on muscle. Hell, I'm still putting on weight, so there's no doubt that his diminutive *** can.

 

[TMC]

Let me see if I can explain and answer your points....

I see an electric player. A RB with great vision and wiggle, and great receiving skill out of the backfield. As a receiver he is very limited due to his size and his poor hand placement. I still think he can be a weapon as a 4th/5th receiver, but he needs to polish his route running and improve his hand placement if he wants to be a consistent threat from the LOS.

No doubt he was an electric player in college, well, for one season anyway. If you look at his career as a whole, his first two seasons, he basically did nothing. We are talking less than 250 yards rushing or receiving in either season. His third year, after missing a season due to academics, he explodes. Unreal season. But, with 159 carries and 39 receptions, he began to wear down. He had shoulder issues, a knee issue, and then an ankle injury to end that season. He goes into his senior season, re-injures the same ankle. His HC moved him to WR to better showcase his skills and he literally stunk it up. He was moved back to RB. I do not think he is a great receiving threat from the backfield. He has more than his fair share of drops due to his propensity to body catch the football. He does not adjust well to the ball in the air (and granted his QB was not great, but you do not see great changes in body position to make catches). He does not have great hands. So, as a dump or checkdown guy, sure, but not as a RB that will run more complex routes, especially down the field. He does not challenge high passes and low ones seem to eat him up. As I have stated, knees to shoulders. Gotta get it on his body.

TMC, I did notice the first clip you just referenced when watching the longer version, and I did like some parts of that terrible play. The ball was thrown behind him and was a lateral, though he missed the catch, he made damn sure he retained possession. He fought hard to get back to it, and I like that in a player, as opposed to standing around and doing nothing.

He hustles. I think he is a worker. Did notice in full film versions, not cutups, that when he works as a receiver and is not the first option, he loafs. Randy Mossish. Ball better be coming to him or anyone can cover him, blanket him, because he drags ***. More concerned about his lack of adjusting to that pass behind him or the passes over his head or the passes a little long. With all that speed, where is it? With his quick feet, why no adjustments? Puzzling. Problems with guys that are just learning the WR position, have not played it their whole life, cannot judge the ball in the air well, often fail to make those adjustments to get in position. Just cannot track it on the fly. I always say I like WRs that go and get the football in the air and what I mean is, when they see it, you see them speed up, slow down, adjust, and do the things prior to it getting there to put them in position to challenge. Not Archer, does not know how. Can he learn it? Maybe. May never get it. Some guys that play WR their whole lives cannot do it well.

I also saw a couple things from his clips that should help us on offense. He is going to get horse collar flags. It seems to be the only way defenders can bring him to the ground if he beats them to the edge. Also being small and being lining up as a WR, he will get benefit of the doubt since he's a smaller player, and bang/bang plays will look like he's getting interfered with if he goes flying or takes a big hit. Not saying we can rely on these things, we can't, just something I noticed.

Really do not want to draft a guy hoping he can get flags so we can move the chains. Especially with the 3rd round pick.

Also as a PR, His coach kept him out of PR duties his senior year, because he's an offensive weapon they want to keep heathy. Like we're doing with Brown now. Brown is easily the BEST PR we have on our team right now, but he won't be doing it this year because we want to protect the investment. Much like Kent St did. Also I still think Brown will be returning the fair catch punts this season. Our vets have always stepped in to do this. Make no mistake, despite the gnashing of teeth in this thread, the Steelers are going to give this kid every opportunity to see what he can do returning punts.

Why didn't he do it as a freshman, sophomore, or junior? He had 6 punt returns (actually 8 because he fair caught 2) and managed 8 yards I think. Kent State had 78 total returns over his career and he only got 6. Forget about his senior year, what about the other three? They have a freshman doing it this season. Archer could not do it as a freshman? Sophomore?

Do I think he gets a chance to return punts? Absolutely. I think he is the first guy off the bench all preseason. But, I think the issues that kept him from doing it in college will show themselves. Coaches can say the right things about guys they like, but if they are not playing the guy and do not have some elite player in front of him, that is pretty telling.

Here's one last measurable that is just insane, and I don't understand how it's not as incredible as it is. Not only did Dri put up the 2nd fasted 40 time ever at the combine, but he tied the record for the least amount of strides to complete the 40 yard run. He tied with the 6'5" Megatron! I expect tall players to long stride, but not a 5'8" kid. Out of the THOUSANDS of players that have run the 40 Not one player has run the 40 in less strides than Dri. Not ONE. For guys that are all over measurables, this is such an anomaly. He's not like other short backs. He is unique. Throwing up 22 reps is also pretty special for a "small" player.

Think about what you just said. Great 40. Excellent bench for his weight. Added 20 pounds of muscle while at Kent State. So, he works out hard, runs well, up to speed quick and long strides. Sounds like a track guy. And a weight room warrior. You are right, he is not like other small backs. You use short, but under 180 pounds is small. And, small runningbacks almost never, not rarely, but almost never have extended careers in the NFL and the only one I can think of recently to make it past 4 seasons is McCluster, and those were pretty ho-hum years. People often bring up small players like Tavon Austin, but they are edge guys, away from the meat grinder, and you can survive there. Problem is, Archer is not a receiver, not even close.

I'm excited to see what he is capable of on the field. Do I expect TDs every play, no, but it would be nice to see one offensive player we picked up, provide some excitement for us.

At this time, I consider that 3rd round pick a throwaway pick, kind of like the pick they did not take with Sanders. I think he is here this season, maybe a couple more, but I doubt he is anything to get excited about. I am not. Of all the picks made by the Steelers this draft, I think that Archer is at the bottom of the list for me. I believe the others have a better chance of being every down contributors than Archer does. He is what he is, a small runningback with limited receiving skills that drops passes, cannot block, and runs very fast. A model citizen Chris Rainey.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I don't know what is crazier,, people bringing up all the same points and arguing with TMC about his opinion.. ad nausem.... or TMC still writing back...

 

[TMC]

I don't know what is crazier,, people bringing up all the same points and arguing with TMC about his opinion.. ad nausem.... or TMC still writing back...

Or could it be people continuing to come in here to read it.

This thread has over 22,500 views.

 

[Wingman]

I watched a video of Devon Hester that showed up after watching one of the other videos posted. It had Hester's 19 tds from kicks and punts. Hester looked to be small and fast and quick. Now before everyone goes crazy on me for saying he will be Devon Hester I am not. But if he does half of what I saw on that video I think it will be a successful pick. After going through the whole thread I see lots of reasons why we could have taken other players at what may have been a very early 4th round pick. All of the other players have some issues as well and have a good chance to fail or under achieve. I understand this is the equivalent of the long shot at the races and they nearly never come in. Once in a while they do. If we hit with this kid we will have a steal. If we loose we have a bust and that's the way it goes. Seastrunk may have been a more sure pick here that would give us a speedy scat back but he might also bust although he has a better chance to make it.

Overall I think our team really needed to get three good players this draft and to have a really good benefit we needed to hit on 4. It looks like our first two are fairly sure things. We need to hit two more impact players out of the projects that are left and it may happen. McCullers maybe one, the ofensive tackle we picked up maybe one as well, and if our fourth round project wide out develops into a quality player we could have really done well with this draft. We will see.

 

[Vader]

To me the risk/ reward made no sense. Even according to the Steelers he is a part time player. Why draft a guy that high that has no possibility of starting, has no real position in the NFL, isn't a PR, is small, short and the very best he could ever be is McCluster? And that is IF they can teach him to punt return, stop fumbling, stay healthy and run routes. The odds are so against him I'd rather have someone with much more upside.

 

[Idioteque]

To me the risk/ reward made no sense. Even according to the Steelers he is a part time player. Why draft a guy that high that has no possibility of starting, has no real position in the NFL, isn't a PR, is small, short and the very best he could ever be is McCluster? And that is IF they can teach him to punt return, stop fumbling, stay healthy and run routes. The odds are so against him I'd rather have someone with much more upside.

It makes no sense to rave about Haley and McCluster and all the things they did in KC. They didn't do much. Two years yielded a whopping 8.0 YPR and 4.4 YPC and 4 TDs, and that's including returns.

 

[Tibs]

It makes no sense to rave about Haley and McCluster and all the things they did in KC. They didn't do much. Two years yielded a whopping 8.0 YPR and 4.4 YPC and 4 TDs, and that's including returns.

That's because Haley didn't have Dri Archer in his arsenal. Thanks to the football gods, he does have him now. For that, we should all be grateful.

 

[Vader]

It makes no sense to rave about Haley and McCluster and all the things they did in KC. They didn't do much. Two years yielded a whopping 8.0 YPR and 4.4 YPC and 4 TDs, and that's including returns.

I watched the part about them talking about Archer but didn't see Haley even say he wanted him. They were basically going around the room talking about each players attributes and weaknesses. I think Haley's part was about 2-3 seconds long. I'm not convinced Haley was the guy chomping at the bit to get him. I think people are conflating the drafting of McCluster to Haley always wanting a small RB/WR type. But I could be wrong since I didn't hear all of it. Maybe we'll find out more when the next part comes out.

 

[FordFairLane]

And some are so in love with him he is already on a pedestal. When someone states he is too small, people point out how fast he is and he can dodge all the hits. When someone points out he fumbles, there is a list of players that fumbled that are in the HOF. When someone shows he cannot catch, people talk about how polished a receiver he is. When someone points out how he did not field punts, people know he can do it because he did it in shorts.

Those that love him cannot accept that he has ANY flaws and that his flaws may be too great to overcome. We all have to hope he works out, some of us just recognize that the odds he will are extraordinarily slim. Others pimp him to be a shoe in for the HOF and will argue any negative thing said about him.

In fact, if you even state he is small, people have quoted Mike Tomlin in stating he is not small, he is short. Sorry, but RBs under 180 are ******* small, so small that the number that actually make it in the NFL can be counted on one hand and none have ever put together multiple average seasons.

I can accept he is small and has the odds stacked against him being a starter. But you feel like he has no value in any aspect of the game. He's a late third round pick!!!! If he was our first or Even our second I can see being upset but a comp third round pick ? And you act as if you can't wait until he fails!!

 

[TMC]

I can accept he is small and has the odds stacked against him being a starter. But you feel like he has no value in any aspect of the game. He's a late third round pick!!!! If he was our first or Even our second I can see being upset but a comp third round pick ? And you act as if you can't wait until he fails!!

And you throw out every little tidbit as proof he is going to do something.

I think he has value as a kick returner. At this point, that is the sole position I think he can translate to the NFL right now. That is it. He did not return punts in his collegiate career, not just his senior season, but for the large majority of it, except for a handful of very putrid opportunities. I think he is too small to be an effective back, even an effective 3rd down back. As for a WR, his receiving skills are far below that of most collegiate WRs.

The odds are stacked against him for being a ******* STARTER? How about the odds are stacked against him for being a consistent contributor on offense. He is a specialist. On offense, he is a gimmick. He should carry the same value as a kicker or punter.

So, does he have value? Sure. You can pick up undrafted free agents that were return men all the time. They did it with Stefan Logan. Micheal Spurlock, Marcus Thigpen, Eric Page, and many others have made a living in the NFL as return men and were not drafted. In fact, the NCAA leader in returns last season went undrafted and is now in camp with the chargers. If you are that interested in a return man, throw away your 7th, not your 3rd.

****, you are already polishing his head for the HOF. Odds stacked against him being a starter.....damn laughable.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Did they draft him to start?? Is the arguement against him the round he was picked. His stature or both. I just dont see how he was picked at all reading TMC posts. He doesnt do anything well reading that. Makes me think everyone should be fired. How didnt they see you everything you are seeing from your computer screen.

He is by no means a finished product at receiver thats true. I see skills that can help in his translation. Others see none.

If he can catch the ball(all reports say he can) I see skills that would make him a good punt returner. Its all projection. I say he has a shot. I dont see the no chance at all from this kid. The stuff he doesnt do well dont ask him to do. We have other guys for that anyway. Put the kid in matchups that you think he can capitilize on. Thats what I think the plan is for him.

 

[Tibs]

I think the fascination with Archer for the likes of TMC, Idioteque, Vader and others is that they simply didn't like Archer heading into the draft, and took personal offense at the fact the Steelers brain trust drafted him. Not only drafted him, but thought highly enough of him, to take him at the end of the 3rd round. That means that he was much higher on their board than what our respected armchair draft analysts thought of him. And again, that's gotta hurt a little, given the fascination we all have with predicting where players will go, and which players the Steelers will end up picking. So in my estimation it boils down to a matter of pride, more than anything else. That's why there's so much vitriol being spread around. Hopefully, once the team hits the field and the games begin, the anger and hate will recede.