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Nothing like completely missing the point, carry on with your love fest.
Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3
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Nothing like completely missing the point, carry on with your love fest.
BB!
......................
Just hilarious...
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I know we are not there yet- but
Lets do this chuck
Lets do this chuck
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Steelers look to reverse a returning trend
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/6/11/5800222/steelers-kick-punt-returns-2014-special-teams
Without opening up a new tab on your computer and going to Google to find the answer, I ask all Steelers fans reading this to try and remember the last time the Steelers had a kickoff returned for a touchdown. I will give you that answer later, but just a hint, it has been a while.
The NFL is slowly trying to phase the kickoff return out of the game, but even with the kickoff being moved to the 35 yard line, returners are still bringing the ball out of the end zone in an attempt to make a big play. Only problem is, the Steelers aren't able to make them.
Enter Steelers' 3rd round NFL Draft pick, Dri Archer. While at Kent State, Archer was their primary kickoff return man, but rarely did he field a kick. With a 4.26 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine, teams would elect to kick it away rather than let the speedster do damage. In 2013, opponents only kicked to Archer two times, and he returned one of them the distance for a touchdown. Not a bad percentage.
The Steelers hope they have caught lightning in a bottle with Archer being able to be the primary kickoff return man and giving him every chance to improve the Steelers' field position other than the customary touchback that has become all too common in today's NFL.
To answer the trivia question at the beginning, it has been since 2010 when Antonio Brown returned a kickoff for a touchdown that someone has taken a kickoff back to the house, and even though Brown has returned two punts back for a touchdown in that same stretch since 2010, the overall (both punt and kickoff) return game hasn't been a positive for the Steelers.
The organization recognized that and adding Archer only helps bolster that position of need for a team desperate of special team playmakers. Although Archer only fielded six punts in his college career, the Steelers are looking to him to be able to take the punt return duties away from their best receiver.
"I feel pretty good about it," Archer told Mark Kaboly of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "It's something I've been doing every day since I've been here, so I feel very comfortable with it."
That comfort level will be a large part of the Steelers' success in the kick / punt return games, and with Archer's speed, all he needs is the ball in his hands and a glimmer of daylight to completely change the game.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/6/11/5800222/steelers-kick-punt-returns-2014-special-teams
Without opening up a new tab on your computer and going to Google to find the answer, I ask all Steelers fans reading this to try and remember the last time the Steelers had a kickoff returned for a touchdown. I will give you that answer later, but just a hint, it has been a while.
The NFL is slowly trying to phase the kickoff return out of the game, but even with the kickoff being moved to the 35 yard line, returners are still bringing the ball out of the end zone in an attempt to make a big play. Only problem is, the Steelers aren't able to make them.
Enter Steelers' 3rd round NFL Draft pick, Dri Archer. While at Kent State, Archer was their primary kickoff return man, but rarely did he field a kick. With a 4.26 40-yard dash time at the NFL combine, teams would elect to kick it away rather than let the speedster do damage. In 2013, opponents only kicked to Archer two times, and he returned one of them the distance for a touchdown. Not a bad percentage.
The Steelers hope they have caught lightning in a bottle with Archer being able to be the primary kickoff return man and giving him every chance to improve the Steelers' field position other than the customary touchback that has become all too common in today's NFL.
To answer the trivia question at the beginning, it has been since 2010 when Antonio Brown returned a kickoff for a touchdown that someone has taken a kickoff back to the house, and even though Brown has returned two punts back for a touchdown in that same stretch since 2010, the overall (both punt and kickoff) return game hasn't been a positive for the Steelers.
The organization recognized that and adding Archer only helps bolster that position of need for a team desperate of special team playmakers. Although Archer only fielded six punts in his college career, the Steelers are looking to him to be able to take the punt return duties away from their best receiver.
"I feel pretty good about it," Archer told Mark Kaboly of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "It's something I've been doing every day since I've been here, so I feel very comfortable with it."
That comfort level will be a large part of the Steelers' success in the kick / punt return games, and with Archer's speed, all he needs is the ball in his hands and a glimmer of daylight to completely change the game.
I dont know why the Steelers coaches think he can return punts when it has already been established on this board that he cant.
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There are a lot of things established on this board. Some as opposed to others, just don't hold water. I'd say, give him a chance as with anything. Remember the first time you went target practicing, well then you grew up a little (for some). Now target practicing is much easier and
more accurate. Well I'm pretty sure Mr. Archer will test the water, weather this "board" established that or not. (contributing to sarcasm)
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I know we are not there yet- but
Lets do this chuck
To early, but ARCHER will over come the jinx!!! Nothing can stop this Archer train!!!!
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96 . . .is what you end up doing after years of marriage, instead of 69, just sayin . . .
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Kickoff returns are just such a small part of football now. We're talking about only 2-3 returns a game (the Steelers had 43 total in 2013).
And starting field position is pretty overrated. There is almost no correlation between scoring and starting field position over the course of the season. The primary factor in scoring is how good your offense is. Period. Do you think 2-3 extra yards matters to Peyton Manning? It's complete horseshit.
Here are the top 10 scoring offenses (scoring per possession) and how they ranked in starting field position after a kickoff:
Denver - 17th
San Diego - 20th
New Orleans - 12th
Dallas - 7th
Chicago - 13th
New England - 4th
Green Bay - 15th
Philly - 16th
Seattle - 3rd
Carolina - 6th
You know what best improves your scoring after a kickoff? Getting more horses for your offense. Improving your success rate on offensive plays. Getting a good quarterback. Having depth and versatility at the skill positions. Upgrading your O-line. Effectively running the football. Converting in the red zone.
'****, knowing this regime they will spout a +2 or +3 yard average on our starting field position after kickoffs as a "success" of Dri Archer all the while our offense continues to score 1.9 to 1.95 points per possession and in the bottom half of Red Zone efficiency. In my opinion, drafting JUST a red zone specialist that would ONLY play when you are inside the 20-yard line would actually be a more effective way to increase scoring than drafting a return specialist.
And starting field position is pretty overrated. There is almost no correlation between scoring and starting field position over the course of the season. The primary factor in scoring is how good your offense is. Period. Do you think 2-3 extra yards matters to Peyton Manning? It's complete horseshit.
Here are the top 10 scoring offenses (scoring per possession) and how they ranked in starting field position after a kickoff:
Denver - 17th
San Diego - 20th
New Orleans - 12th
Dallas - 7th
Chicago - 13th
New England - 4th
Green Bay - 15th
Philly - 16th
Seattle - 3rd
Carolina - 6th
You know what best improves your scoring after a kickoff? Getting more horses for your offense. Improving your success rate on offensive plays. Getting a good quarterback. Having depth and versatility at the skill positions. Upgrading your O-line. Effectively running the football. Converting in the red zone.
'****, knowing this regime they will spout a +2 or +3 yard average on our starting field position after kickoffs as a "success" of Dri Archer all the while our offense continues to score 1.9 to 1.95 points per possession and in the bottom half of Red Zone efficiency. In my opinion, drafting JUST a red zone specialist that would ONLY play when you are inside the 20-yard line would actually be a more effective way to increase scoring than drafting a return specialist.
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Instead of drafting one did they not sign one in free agency, Blount? Also since you broached the subject about a red zone specialist, who would you have picked and where. One and only one rule the player you want has to have been available at one of our draft picks. A suggestion would be not to replace either of our first two picks as they were generally accepted as good choices that were both best players available and a big need for our team. Although if you do that is likely going to change the rest of our draft which was according to the draft weenies pretty good for a change.
Great stats Del. Karma for the research!
Hopefully the taller receivers JB/Moye/Bryant/DHB can make an impact. Hopefully Wheaton, Moore and Archer can add some wiggle in close. Not worried about Heath or AB. And with the revamped line and Blount, I hope we can consistently get a yard now on 3rd/4th and shorts. I feel much better this year about our team speed, size, and power than I did last year.
It will be nice if Bryant can be that red zone threat to play in close and do his best Chris Carter impression for us. Then we'd have the best of both worlds!
Funny stuff. If there were a karma button...
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I feel your pain...
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The point I'm trying to make is I wouldn't draft a one-trick pony, red zone specialist with the #97 pick in the draft either even though I could argue someone like that would increase our scoring output more than a top-5 kick returner.
The top-5 kick return teams (by yards per return) were Kansas City, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Dallas and Cincinnati. Two 11-5, two 8-8 and one 4-12.
Do you think having a good kick returner helps predict future success? No. No one is jumping on those teams as "improving" (the over/under on their projected 2014 win totals: 9, 8 1/2, 8, 8 and 4 1/2). No one starts their analysis of a team and says "Oh look, they were 2nd in kickoff return yards last year, I think that will get them another win or two".
Return yardage is one of the most overblown statistics in the history of the sport (right up there with punt yardage). Even if we correctly evaluate special teams production as a +/- "Big Plays" (similar to how teams look at turnovers, because they happen actually LESS frequently than turnovers), it is fundamentally a fruitless waste of effort because big plays in the return game (both for/against) are very hard to predict and maintain year-to-year (just like turnovers).
Just as turnovers aren't because of ONE individual (if anything they are more related to what a coach concentrates on in practice), +/- big plays in the special teams is more a result of depth, practice and coaching methods.
It's really one of the big flaws of Mike Tomlin and many in the Tony Dungy coaching tree (Marinelli, Kiffin, Smith, Edwards, et. al.). They chase the golden goose of "turnovers" and "special teams" to the point they actually cause harm to the rest of the team fundamentally. Lovie Smith is actually the shining example of this. No where in history can you see a coach spend more time on preaching turnovers and investing in the return game like Lovie Smith in Chicago. They practiced turnovers. They practiced the return game with Hester (who is talented and was drafted in the 3rd round btw). But to what end? They averaged 9 wins. Failed to make the playoffs 6 of 9 seasons. Never really was good enough at the really important things to get over the hump. At the height of their turnover/special teams expertise, they went 13-3 and got to the Super Bowl. They generated an absurd 44 turnovers on defense and Hester had 5 returns for touchdowns.
But was that sustainable? Do we look back at that Chicago team as the shining example of what to achieve? No way. Their offense was below average. They had a terrible quarterback. In many ways history looks at that Bears team and calls them lucky more than good. They never validated their season. Following it up with a 7-9 record and a -14 scoring differential. Sound familiar? Notice the lack of consistency? Like maybe similar to a team that wears black and gold and has another Dungy disciple as coach?
The problem with Dungy to Edwards to Smith to Tomlin is their lack of education on the offensive side of the ball makes them feel helpless to actually IMPROVE the team. They try to concentrate on fluff peripheral stuff like turnovers and special teams (things almost impossible to be good at year-in, year-out) because they don't really know how to draft, teach and create a dominant team (both sides of the ball). They consistently turn over the offense to others, then concentrate on very small pieces of the pie in the off-season to reiterate they are in "charge".
I'm not convinced Tombert thought Shazier is the best decision for the team or if he thought Shazier is a cheap fix to his turnover problem. I'm not sure Tomlin thinks Archer is a legit offensive player (ala Warrick Dunn) or a cheap hood ornament that will help fix his special teams problem. To me when coaches/GMs look for "quick fixes" to problems (both perceived, frivolous or warranted), that is a dangerous path.
That is not drafting best player available.
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Great Post Deljzc and thank you for the work put into it. Never thought of it in that respect, so thanks for opening my eyes.
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But does in apply in this reference ?
I am not so sure.
As Archer will not be JUST a return specialist. He will be a run slash slot pass catch slash return man slash specialist. (hopefully)
In that aspect he can contribute to a O being more explosive. And he is just one piece of the puzzle. With Bryant being a red zone possibility, Blount being a goal line probability. Much too early to tell, but the potential is there for this O to rise up in explosiveness.
I bet if you compare the second half of last season to the first. You see a statistically more explosive O. Now you have three contributory players who could help it rise to the level of contending.
How will it play out? who knowssssssssss. But the Steelers brought in three potential, matchup problems. To go with a Brown and a healthier Heath, and a 2nd year improved Bell. And a savvy veteran in Moore.
I would say the arrow is pointing up, not so sure I would have said that last year at this time.
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But wait.. I thought it was determined that he could return punts, even though he never has, because it's incredibly easy and fumbles/injuries aren't a concern on returns.. ?
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ALL very good points slash, but I was responding more in a general term. I had just assumed, a better starting point (good kick/punt return) equated out to better chances of scoring. Deljzc showed potential otherwise. Myself, always, will take a great return, regardless of points. If for nothing else, it can change overall field positioning. This is where the Archer kid will come in. He is NOT just a one demential player, he is a multi-phase player. It is yet to be determined on the field, but I feel the STEELERS have improved, in more than one phase.
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Dri Archer drawing comparisons to Jamaal Charles?
Marc Sessler
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REPLAYBreer's offseason notebook: Rookie surprisesWatch more videos >01:14/02:29
With offseason practices in full swing, football fans from east to west are getting a first look at this year's class of rookies.
Non-contact sessions don't tell us much, with running backs and shifty wideouts given the green light to flow through defenders untouched.
What we can gather, though, are clues on how first-year players are being used schematically by their coaches.
Let's round up what we're hearing about a handful of talented newbies:
1. Dri Archer
In his latest offseason video notebook, NFL Media's Albert Breer stressed that a primary focus in Pittsburgh is improving a ground game that finished 27th in the league last season. While free-agent addition LeGarrette Blount has "impressed" coaches and figures to form a one-two punch with second-year back Le'Veon Bell, one young X-factor looms: Dri Archer.
The runner out of Kent State "has been tagged internally as a miniature version of Jamaal Charles" in Todd Haley's offense, per Breer.
It's also worth nothing that Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert previously drew a parallel between Archer and former Lions return man Mel Gray, another hint that Pittsburgh has big plans for the 5-foot-8 jitterbug.
Marc Sessler
Around the League Writer
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SHARE
VIDEO LOADING
WE'RE SORRY, BUT THIS VIDEO IS NOT AVAILABLE.
WATCH MORE VIDEOS
REPLAYBreer's offseason notebook: Rookie surprisesWatch more videos >01:14/02:29
With offseason practices in full swing, football fans from east to west are getting a first look at this year's class of rookies.
Non-contact sessions don't tell us much, with running backs and shifty wideouts given the green light to flow through defenders untouched.
What we can gather, though, are clues on how first-year players are being used schematically by their coaches.
Let's round up what we're hearing about a handful of talented newbies:
1. Dri Archer
In his latest offseason video notebook, NFL Media's Albert Breer stressed that a primary focus in Pittsburgh is improving a ground game that finished 27th in the league last season. While free-agent addition LeGarrette Blount has "impressed" coaches and figures to form a one-two punch with second-year back Le'Veon Bell, one young X-factor looms: Dri Archer.
The runner out of Kent State "has been tagged internally as a miniature version of Jamaal Charles" in Todd Haley's offense, per Breer.
It's also worth nothing that Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert previously drew a parallel between Archer and former Lions return man Mel Gray, another hint that Pittsburgh has big plans for the 5-foot-8 jitterbug.
Ray says hello
Last year our opponents had 55 kickoffs, compared to 43 for us. The reason we only had 43 was because you don't want Jon Dwyer or Felix Jones to return a kickoff that 3 yards deep in the endzone. In that way, the return average of Dwyer/Jones should be adjusted downward a bit to account for the fact that they only return the most favorable kickoffs so the offense is starting out on the 20-yard line a lot.
I don't think it makes sense to compare field position and scoring ACROSS offenses. Everybody knows that Peyton Manning is going to put up more expected points per drive starting at the 20 than Rex Grossman would put up even if Devin Hester gets him up to the 38-yard line. The real question concerns our offense - what is the difference in expected points per drive if Roethlisberger starts every drive at the 26 instead of the 22 and how meaningful is that over the course of a season?
Lastly, it needs to be seen whether Archer can be a quality punt returner and how much that would help this offense (I mentioned the other day, AB is basically a fair-catch machine as a punt returner even if he's got 15 yards of open grass in front of him).
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Typical of Colbert to compare a player he drafts number #97 overall (in a deep draft) to a player (Mel Gray) I wouldn't ever draft #97 overall in any draft ever.
Mel Gray had almost as many fumbles (31) as he had offensive touches (32).
Again. If Colbert philosophically thinks Mel Gray and his one-dimensional return specialist career in a WORTHWHILE investment, I just have such a difference of opinion to him and question his intelligence on football matters so much I lose faith in his ability to be an effective GM.
I strongly believe as the math geeks get more and more involved with football they will prove special teams is just not nearly as important as some coaches think it is. I'm not saying you ignore it. But the definition of good and bad special teams will change.
Mel Gray had almost as many fumbles (31) as he had offensive touches (32).
Again. If Colbert philosophically thinks Mel Gray and his one-dimensional return specialist career in a WORTHWHILE investment, I just have such a difference of opinion to him and question his intelligence on football matters so much I lose faith in his ability to be an effective GM.
I strongly believe as the math geeks get more and more involved with football they will prove special teams is just not nearly as important as some coaches think it is. I'm not saying you ignore it. But the definition of good and bad special teams will change.
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