Tariffs

[Sarge]

Also finding people who can pass a drug test is a problem.

Absolutely a fact. When I worked at Toyota and even in this job that is always one of the first questions. Always. “How often will I be piss tested?” It’s disqualifying. Every time. Or at least it should be.

 

[MT~Forged]

You should read the history of the Auto Pact

All it would take is for you guys to remove all barriers to Free Trade and we could move on. If you want to band together and only buy Canadian products, fine. If the PEOPLE choose to not buy imports, I can accept that. What I have a problem with is your GOVERNMENT putting up barriers to trade.

In a perfect world anyone can export anything to any country without Governments hindering this trade. The people can choose if they want to buy it or not. That is what Free Trade really means.

 

[oneforthebus]

I laugh at Yinzers here being mad about tariffs* when steel imports wrecked what was a solid way of life here for 100 years.

*They're only mad because the Democrats tell them to be.

I’m not mad about tariffs, I just don’t believe they will accomplish what you all think they will. And no, it’s not because Democrats told me so. For decades it was Democrats who used to push protectionism to placate labor unions. Unions who made it impossible for the US to compete with foreign steel, autos, etc. Republicans have opposed tariffs and supported free trade for decades. You all suddenly love tariffs because Trump says so. I’m a pro-business pro-growth free trade Republican like I’ve always been.

 

[oneforthebus]

https://www.ntu.org/publications/detail/other-countries-are-not-ripping-us-off-on-trade

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I’m not mad about tariffs, I just don’t believe they will accomplish what you all think they will. And no, it’s not because Democrats told me so. For decades it was Democrats who used to push protectionism to placate labor unions. Unions who made it impossible for the US to compete with foreign steel, autos, etc. Republicans have opposed tariffs and supported free trade for decades. You all suddenly love tariffs because Trump says so. I’m a pro-business pro-growth free trade Republican like I’ve always been.

It's not Trump so much as it is we see that tariffs are a one-way street with other countries putting much higher tariffs on our stuff than we do on theirs.

 

[JMM]

This sure looks like the COVID thread. We're ficked. Glad I'm almost dead.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I'll put my economics instructor hat on for a minute. I stopped teaching in 2013 when I started mortuary school but I still remember some ****.

Nations have two types of economic advantages. Absolute Advantage is when you have a natural resource or are otherwise able to produce something that no one else is able to do. Comparative Advantage is when you simply are able to produce things more efficiently and/or at a lower cost (think China and labor cost).
So you may want a protectionist tariff on another nation with comparative advantage over you.

Speaking of, there are two schools of thought on tariffs. A Protectionist Tariff is high and designed to force people to buy less imported goods and more domestic goods by making the imported goods cost relatively more and domestic goods cost relatively less. A Revenue Tariff is usually low and designed to make money for the government. You don't WANT people to buy less, you want them to pay tariffs but not at a cost so high that they buy less.

 

[oneforthebus]

My understanding of comparative advantage is that if I’m better at producing A and you’re better at producing B, it benefits both of us to trade with each other. Instead of me trying to grow coffee in Iowa I trade my corn to Columbia for coffee and it’s all less expensive for both of us.

 

[Confluence]

All it would take is for you guys to remove all barriers to Free Trade and we could move on. If you want to band together and only buy Canadian products, fine. If the PEOPLE choose to not buy imports, I can accept that. What I have a problem with is your GOVERNMENT putting up barriers to trade.

In a perfect world anyone can export anything to any country without Governments hindering this trade. The people can choose if they want to buy it or not. That is what Free Trade really means.

yep, it's the greedy Canadians holding the US back.
Maybe read thru the thread again, the various Free Trade Deals -- 5 now, with the last one negotiated and signed by that guy Trudeau ***-whipped. Right.

 

[Confluence]

It's not Trump so much as it is we see that tariffs are a one-way street with other countries putting much higher tariffs on our stuff than we do on theirs.

that's not anywhere close to the whole story or the reality though

 

[MT~Forged]

My understanding of comparative advantage is that if I’m better at producing A and you’re better at producing B, it benefits both of us to trade with each other. Instead of me trying to grow coffee in Iowa I trade my corn to Columbia for coffee and it’s all less expensive for both of us.

This would be true unless Columbia limits imports of corn from the US or puts a high tariff on corn imports, while the US does neither.

 

[MT~Forged]

yep, it's the greedy Canadians holding the US back.
Maybe read thru the thread again, the various Free Trade Deals -- 5 now, with the last one negotiated and signed by that guy Trudeau ***-whipped. Right.

Maybe you should do some refresher reading too, as I already addressed this point that you repeat every 5th post.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

My understanding of comparative advantage is that if I’m better at producing A and you’re better at producing B, it benefits both of us to trade with each other. Instead of me trying to grow coffee in Iowa I trade my corn to Columbia for coffee and it’s all less expensive for both of us.

Exactly. Nations should specialize in what they do well and trade with each other. But there are some things that can be done almost anywhere so then you have a problem of one country costing jobs in another and those jobs can't always be replaced. A labor force isn't immediately flexible or mobile.
Biden seemed to think that laid off coal miners could learn to code in a month or two yet laid off Federal office workers aren't expected to do the same.
And you have better educated coders in India who work for less than half of what someone in the U.S. earns.

 

[Confluence]

Exactly. Nations should specialize in what they do well and trade with each other. But there are some things that can be done almost anywhere so then you have a problem of one country costing jobs in another and those jobs can't always be replaced. A labor force isn't immediately flexible or mobile.
Biden seemed to think that laid off coal miners could learn to code in a month or two yet laid off Federal office workers aren't expected to do the same.
And you have better educated coders in India who work for less than half of what someone in the U.S. earns.

The crux of international trade is related in this last example:
Are US consumers better off paying half wage coders in India? And how/who decides?

 

[DBS1970]

The crux of international trade is related in this last example:
Are US consumers better off paying half wage coders in India? And how/who decides?

The American People have already decided. The support for this is overwhelming. We want Free trade, but trade is not free if it is not fair and reciprocal. And I have to smack Ron Burgundy on one point though: Indians are not better educated coders. Most have fake credentials from diploma mills I for one remember Disney bringing in H1b Indians in the early 2000's and replacing their IT department because they work cheaper, I also remember the American IT workers being forced to train the Indian H1b's if they wanted to get their severance benefits(this is another reason to hate woke Disney). You don't need to train people in basic IT stuff if they are better than you.

 

[Confluence]

The American People have already decided. The support for this is overwhelming. We want Free trade, but trade is not free if it is not fair and reciprocal. And I have to smack Ron Burgundy on one point though: Indians are not better educated coders. Most have fake credentials from diploma mills I for one remember Disney bringing in H1b Indians in the early 2000's and replacing their IT department because they work cheaper, I also remember the American IT workers being forced to train the Indian H1b's if they wanted to get their severance benefits(this is another reason to hate woke Disney). You don't need to train people in basic IT stuff if they are better than you.

Can you clarify? Are you saying the American people want free trade that is fair and reciprocal?

If so, my question still stands in the example: who decides if the American consumer is better off with a product from lower paid Indian coders vs American only content?

Does the government decide this or does Bob's Coding Company in Atlanta get to decide if they hire locally or from AZ or from India? And then who regulates this on behalf of the American people's desire for "fair"?

 

[Steeltime]

My understanding of comparative advantage is that if I’m better at producing A and you’re better at producing B, it benefits both of us to trade with each other. Instead of me trying to grow coffee in Iowa I trade my corn to Columbia for coffee and it’s all less expensive for both of us.

Yes, obviously.

Until Columbia imposes a 150% tariff on American corn, and their own producers can grow corn that is now a tick below the tariff-adjusted price. What then? I'm a simple cave lawyer so I ask for your help in deciding what to do under that scenario.

 

[Confluence]

Yes, obviously.

Until Columbia imposes a 150% tariff on American corn, and their own producers can grow corn that is now a tick below the tariff-adjusted price. What then? I'm a simple cave lawyer so I ask for your help in deciding what to do under that scenario.

What if Colombia, or Mexico, for example, has a Health Ministry/Department that decides that corn sprayed with Glyphosate as a dessicant is unfit for human consumption and bars importation of same?

 

[IndySteel]

Regarding India, and I love this, the advice that that my grandfather gave to my mom when she left their house was "Never trust an Indian (dot not feather) or a man with a mustache." We have a distributor who sells our chemicals to steel mills in India, because I'm sure as hell not going there. Too many snakes and too much filth. I just found out that they can source one of our major raw materials for half the cost of what we currently pay. Even if India hits us with a 25% tariff my landed cost will still greatly help our gross profit. And I spent my early years stacking 50 pound bags by hand on pallets in a hot and very dusty environment. 24,000 pounds per shift on average. We have an automatic palletizer now and I enjoy telling our employees not to OFTB.

 

[oneforthebus]

Yes, obviously.

Until Columbia imposes a 150% tariff on American corn, and their own producers can grow corn that is now a tick below the tariff-adjusted price. What then? I'm a simple cave lawyer so I ask for your help in deciding what to do under that scenario.

I’ll try to keep it as simple as I can for you. As I’ve said numerous times, targeted tariffs against bad actors on specific products that harm our ability to compete=good. Blanket tariffs on everyone=bad.

Trump figured that out in a hurry thank goodness.