The Academic Bubble

[Supersteeler]

Oh, and as to Warren's plan to give hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to pay off student debt, let me use my liberal arts background to proffer the following response:

**** YOU, WARREN.

I paid my student loans. My wife paid her student loans. Wife and I paid for our kids college expenses, and they are paying off their student loans. If you take on the debt and are too incompetent to earn enough to pay it off, that is your mistake, not mine.

Why in God's name should I pay for your mistakes???

Or maybe they are talking about people like me. I've never missed a college loan payment in 20 years. I am on income based repayment which means that I pay $400 a month instead of around $900 a month. Despite that, after paying religiously for 20 years, I right now as of this point, owe $9,000 more now than I did the day I walked out of college. That's right, my total loan debt has INCREASED $9,000 in 20 years, not decreased. The interest rate has outpaced the rate of payment for 20 years. Tell me what kind of decisions I can make to overcome that?

Sure I may have been able to afford to pay $900 a month for the past 5 years or so but that would mean that I wouldn't be able to do much for my kids. Keep in mind that my wife is also on income based repayment and pays an additional $300 a month on her college loans. Hers would be about $700 a month without the income based plan. I don't know many people who can shell out $1600 a month in nothing but college loans and still survive as a family. We sure as hell can't if I want my kids to eat and have clothes on their back.

 

[Steeltime]

Or maybe they are talking about people like me. I've never missed a college loan payment in 20 years. I am on income based repayment which means that I pay $400 a month instead of around $900 a month. Despite that, after paying religiously for 20 years, I right now as of this point, owe $9,000 more now than I did the day I walked out of college. That's right, my total loan debt has INCREASED $9,000 in 20 years, not decreased. The interest rate has outpaced the rate of payment for 20 years. Tell me what kind of decisions I can make to overcome that?

Sure I may have been able to afford to pay $900 a month for the past 5 years or so but that would mean that I wouldn't be able to do much for my kids. Keep in mind that my wife is also on income based repayment and pays an additional $300 a month on her college loans. Hers would be about $700 a month without the income based plan. I don't know many people who can shell out $1600 a month in nothing but college loans and still survive as a family. We sure as hell can't if I want my kids to eat and have clothes on their back.

Sorry to hear that, but I am surprised that your income has not increased substantially over the past 10 years to the point you simply pay off the damn loans. That is what happened with wife and me. Further, your loans are 20 years old - so your college and graduate school tuitions must have been a damn site better than they are now.

Also, if you are paying more than 7% interest on the loans, simply have a "refinance" done with a new lender. If your credit rating is 725 or above, you will get an interest in the 6% area. With interest that low, you will pay a significant portion of the principal.

Finally, once again I am sorry to hear that somehow you have increased the amount owed after paying for 20 years - does not make a lot of sense to me to be honest - but why should somebody else pay your debts? I don't expect you or anybody else to pay my and my wife's debts.

 

[Superman]

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/how-student-loan-interest-works/

As you make payments on your student loan, your balance and the amount of interest you accrue will drop. With lower interest charges, more of your payments are applied to your principal. Over the life of your loan, your interest paid will decline each month, which accelerates your principal payment. That’s how it works with amortization — basically a fancy way of saying “paying down principal on a loan.”

Remember, your payment amount goes toward interest and any outstanding fees before it reduces your principal.

If you have an unsubsidized loan or are past the subsidy period, your loan payoff date requires you to make the same minimum payment each month. If you are on a payment plan or have deferred payments, interest continues to accrue. This amount is added to your principal, increasing your student loan balance.

the way the interest is determined is rather ******* sneaky, too.
it seems to be calculated like a credit card from the government. as you pay down, the interest is then re-calculated. as this link says, daily.

from that link:

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/student-loan-amortization-guide/

Perhaps counterintuitively, even though your payment under a typical installment loan is the same each month, the amount of your monthly payment allocated to principal and interest changes over the life of the loan.

Almost always, more of your monthly payment goes toward interest during the early years of repayment. Below is a table of my own student loan payments from 2013. Notice how almost all of my payment goes toward interest until I started paying extra in August:

You can see that despite paying over $3,300 toward that loan over the course of the year, I only reduced my balance by about $700 — and that’s only because I started making extra payments.

Since the balance on that loan was over $55,000, that was pretty tough to swallow. So if you just started making student loan payments, you could be paying hundreds of dollars a month only to see your balance decrease by a fraction of that amount. Frustrating!

I'd better understand this if it was ran by a bank, but this is run by the federal government. To think that some people have to go back to college due to their chosen profession having become over-ran and consumed through technology advances (journalism, graphic design) thus flooding the market, those same people who have paid into the system through income taxes, sales tax, etc, are now having to take out loans from the government and being charged a ludicrous interest for repayment, and that amount is then compounded in such a way that the loan life is extended years past what it should have been is certainly an issue. People graduating with valid, worthy degrees in tech fields can expect a student loan to be well north of $50k, but then find the job market doesn't want to pay fresh out of college employees enough to make ends meet AND make student loan repayments AND be able to save money to move out of apartments, buy houses and contribute even more to the economy.

Still, if we were to cut off foreign aid to a **** ton of countries, our student loan problem would go away almost instantly.

 

[Supersteeler]

Sorry to hear that, but I am surprised that your income has not increased substantially over the past 10 years to the point you simply pay off the damn loans. That is what happened with wife and me. Further, your loans are 20 years old - so your college and graduate school tuitions must have been a damn site better than they are now.

Also, if you are paying more than 7% interest on the loans, simply have a "refinance" done with a new lender. If your credit rating is 725 or above, you will get an interest in the 6% area. With interest that low, you will pay a significant portion of the principal.

Finally, once again I am sorry to hear that somehow you have increased the amount owed after paying for 20 years - does not make a lot of sense to me to be honest - but why should somebody else pay your debts? I don't expect you or anybody else to pay my and my wife's debts.

First of all, I didn't ******* ask anyone to pay off my debts. I was responding to your disrespectful *** comment implying that people with overwhelming college debt are all irresponsible idiots.

Second of all, I do get a raise every year, which is why my loan payment has increased every year. Trust me, when I started out working for 21K a year my payment was about $150 a month as calculated based on my salary, which is why my payments are up to $400 at this stage of my career. I'm still a good $300 or $400 a month from even breaking even with the interest to stop the interest from outpacing it. Too bad I'm at the top of the pay scale already so that will never happen until my kids are grown and out of the house. Then I can shell out my whole ******* paycheck every month for mine and my wife's loan payments. Can't wait.

 

[Confluence]

It seems like your pursuit of higher education has enslaved you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Supersteeler]

It seems like your pursuit of higher education has enslaved you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Steeler Nation mobile app

A bit, yeah. I couldn't have gotten my job without the degrees I have though.

 

[MTC]

Liberal arts includes English. The near-illiteracy of the American population contributes significantly to a very stilted, narrow world view, and an obsession with self. How many college graduates did not read Great Expectations? Or the Odyssey? How many college graduates are unable to compose a reasoned paragraph, with no misspellings or grammatical errors?

Liberal arts studies require substantial reading, writing, and critical thinking. Those skills relate to everyday life, and are skills highly valued by employers. The bastardization of liberal arts to include vagina theories and the morality of capitalism does not detract from genuine, classical liberal arts, including languages, English, even drama and arts. We as a society are judged in significant part on our contributions to literature, music, and art. The terrible fire involving the Notre Dame cathedral was so devastating because of the irreplaceable stain glass windows, art, and relics that the fire consumed.

So as a liberal arts major - English and Economics - I point out that the liberal arts are important for the workforce, for everyday life and in fact for our society as a whole. I now step off my soapbox.

Sure general studies. Basic reading/comprehension etc are necessities beyond education. But even at that.... That's what K-12 should be for is development.

My point I was trying to say is that there are bad classes that should be extra curriculars rather than the bulk make up of credit hours.

Just like our system in the real world. There are loopholes in the higher education system which is hurting more than helping.

 

[DBS1970]

Liberal arts includes English. The near-illiteracy of the American population contributes significantly to a very stilted, narrow world view, and an obsession with self. How many college graduates did not read Great Expectations? Or the Odyssey? How many college graduates are unable to compose a reasoned paragraph, with no misspellings or grammatical errors?

Liberal arts studies require substantial reading, writing, and critical thinking. Those skills relate to everyday life, and are skills highly valued by employers. The bastardization of liberal arts to include vagina theories and the morality of capitalism does not detract from genuine, classical liberal arts, including languages, English, even drama and arts. We as a society are judged in significant part on our contributions to literature, music, and art. The terrible fire involving the Notre Dame cathedral was so devastating because of the irreplaceable stain glass windows, art, and relics that the fire consumed.

So as a liberal arts major - English and Economics - I point out that the liberal arts are important for the workforce, for everyday life and in fact for our society as a whole. I now step off my soapbox.

You say this and I imagine Idiocracy.

 

[Steeltime]

First of all, I didn't ******* ask anyone to pay off my debts. I was responding to your disrespectful *** comment implying that people with overwhelming college debt are all irresponsible idiots.

No, I said that those with student loans are responsible, not irresponsible. Specifically, they are responsible for their own debts. I am responsible for my debts, and the student loans I guaranteed for my two kids.

So your kids are still living at home and you think you have a lot of student debt. Wow. Wait until your kids consider going to college. Talk to me then.

Second of all, I do get a raise every year, which is why my loan payment has increased every year. Trust me, when I started out working for 21K a year my payment was about $150 a month as calculated based on my salary, which is why my payments are up to $400 at this stage of my career. I'm still a good $300 or $400 a month from even breaking even with the interest to stop the interest from outpacing it. Too bad I'm at the top of the pay scale already so that will never happen until my kids are grown and out of the house. Then I can shell out my whole ******* paycheck every month for mine and my wife's loan payments. Can't wait.

Did you have to miss work for while? Did you go into default on the loans? Something is not adding up here. Wife and I paid for college for two kids, who graduated in 2009 and 2014. Their combined student debt that we had to finance totaled ... a lot, due to the schools they attended. We paid off daughter's college debt (she is responsible for medical school debt) in 2017. We will finish paying off son's student loan debt this year. Even if we paid the "minimum" amounts, the accrued debt would NOT increase.

 

[Supersteeler]

No, I said that those with student loans are responsible, not irresponsible. Specifically, they are responsible for their own debts. I am responsible for my debts, and the student loans I guaranteed for my two kids.

So your kids are still living at home and you think you have a lot of student debt. Wow. Wait until your kids consider going to college. Talk to me then.



Did you have to miss work for while? Did you go into default on the loans? Something is not adding up here. Wife and I paid for college for two kids, who graduated in 2009 and 2014. Their combined student debt that we had to finance totaled ... a lot, due to the schools they attended. We paid off daughter's college debt (she is responsible for medical school debt) in 2017. We will finish paying off son's student loan debt this year. Even if we paid the "minimum" amounts, the accrued debt would NOT increase.

Know what? How about you go **** yourself? You don't know jack **** about what you are saying but you obviously think you do. Default.....don't make me ******* laugh. Get this through your thick *** ******* skull. I've never defaulted, stopped working for a day or missed a single payment....in 20 years. The student loan officer told me over the phone that the interest is outpacing the rate I'm paying it which is why it's gone up $9,000. I then asked him if I sent more than the payment every month would it help. His response was "Don't even bother. You have $9,000 interest sitting on top of the original loan amount. That all has to be paid down before you even get into the original balance".

I really don't give a **** if you believe me or not. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You are evidently one of those people who likes to flap their gums about things they don't have any knowledge about. Piss off.

 

[Troglodyte]

Or maybe they are talking about people like me. I've never missed a college loan payment in 20 years. I am on income based repayment which means that I pay $400 a month instead of around $900 a month. Despite that, after paying religiously for 20 years, I right now as of this point, owe $9,000 more now than I did the day I walked out of college. That's right, my total loan debt has INCREASED $9,000 in 20 years, not decreased. The interest rate has outpaced the rate of payment for 20 years.

Man, who loaned you the money? Billy Bats and Jimmy Two Times?

 

[Supersteeler]

Man, who loaned you the money? Billy Bats and Jimmy Two Times?

AES - American Education Service. One of the largest providers around.

 

[Superman]

Man, who loaned you the money? Billy Bats and Jimmy Two Times?

speaking of money, when is your cheap *** reaching into your wallet to become a contributor?

 

[Steeltime]

Know what? How about you go **** yourself? You don't know jack **** about what you are saying but you obviously think you do. Default.....don't make me ******* laugh. Get this through your thick *** ******* skull. I've never defaulted, stopped working for a day or missed a single payment....in 20 years. The student loan officer told me over the phone that the interest is outpacing the rate I'm paying it which is why it's gone up $9,000. I then asked him if I sent more than the payment every month would it help. His response was "Don't even bother. You have $9,000 interest sitting on top of the original loan amount. That all has to be paid down before you even get into the original balance".

I really don't give a **** if you believe me or not. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You are evidently one of those people who likes to flap their gums about things they don't have any knowledge about. Piss off.

Okay. I really don't give much of a **** about your financial decisions - until they become my responsibility. I imagine you don't care much about my financial decisions either.

Just not comprehending how you paid your loans for 20 years and owe $9,000 more than the original debt. Seriously, are your student debts $250,000? More? A $250,000 mortgage results in a monthly payment of $1,260 dollars, and at the end of 30 years, you have paid off the debt.

Finally, I genuinely suggest you see a financial planner. Your economic decisions to date seem ... unprofitable.

 

[oneforthebus]

A bit, yeah. I couldn't have gotten my job without the degrees I have though.

Wait, you have more than one degree and you started at 21K? What kind of work do you do?

Just saying, 20 years ago I was in retail management making 35K. Plus overtime and bonuses.

 

[Supersteeler]

Okay. I really don't give much of a **** about your financial decisions - until they become my responsibility. I imagine you don't care much about my financial decisions either.

Just not comprehending how you paid your loans for 20 years and owe $9,000 more than the original debt. Seriously, are your student debts $250,000? More? A $250,000 mortgage results in a monthly payment of $1,260 dollars, and at the end of 30 years, you have paid off the debt.

Finally, I genuinely suggest you see a financial planner. Your economic decisions to date seem ... unprofitable.

The loan is for my Bachelor's degree and my Master's degree consolidated, as of my last check it was about $70,000. The interest rate of the college loans is incredible. Well evidently my wife has unprofitable decision making skills in your opinion too because she's in the same boat. Again, to get the job I have, there is NO OTHER WAY. If you want the degree, you pay to go get it....period. There is no short cut, no alternate path.

 

[Supersteeler]

Wait, you have more than one degree and you started at 21K? What kind of work do you do?

Just saying, 20 years ago I was in retail management making 35K. Plus overtime and bonuses.

Yep, high school guidance counselor...on the same scale as teachers in the district. Started in 2003 in good ole Western PA. Starting salary with a Master's degree, 21K.

 

[oneforthebus]

Yep, high school guidance counselor...on the same scale as teachers in the district. Started in 2003 in good ole Western PA. Starting salary with a Master's degree, 21K.

Yikes.

If I were you I'd go into private practice. You can't even get an appointment with a master's degree counselor around here.

 

[Steeltime]

The loan is for my Bachelor's degree and my Master's degree consolidated, as of my last check it was about $70,000. The interest rate of the college loans is incredible. Well evidently my wife has unprofitable decision making skills in your opinion too because she's in the same boat. Again, to get the job I have, there is NO OTHER WAY. If you want the degree, you pay to go get it....period. There is no short cut, no alternate path.

Refinance the debt. If your payment history is as good as you state (not opining here, just saying) and if you have a credit score of 725 or above, you can get the student loan interest rate down to about 6.5%, maybe 6%.

 

[Supersteeler]

Refinance the debt. If your payment history is as good as you state (not opining here, just saying) and if you have a credit score of 725 or above, you can get the student loan interest rate down to about 6.5%, maybe 6%.

According to my current bill statement, my current interest rate is 4.375%. How is it not coming down any after 20 years? Beats the hell out of me.

 

[IndySteel]

According to my current bill statement, my current interest rate is 4.375%. How is it not coming down any after 20 years? Beats the hell out of me.

You should call for an audit of your account. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[oneforthebus]

Just googled this Income Based Repayment set up and according to this you could possibly have your loans forgiven after 20 years?

https://www.debt.org/students/income-based-repayment-loans/

 

[oneforthebus]

No offense to you SS, I certainly believe we need qualified teachers and counselors. But really this is part of the problem...why would anyone lend $70,000 in unsecured money to someone whose starting salary is going to be $21,000 and cap out at 50 or 60 grand? No bank would ever do that yet our government hands out this money like candy. Which is exactly why colleges are able to charge such outrageous tuition.

So now the proposal is not to lend this money, but to give it away for free. Imagine how much colleges are going to charge when a large segment of the population is getting totally free, no strings attached money to attend and get whatever low earning degree they feel like getting. It's complete lunacy.

 

[Supersteeler]

No offense to you SS, I certainly believe we need qualified teachers and counselors. But really this is part of the problem...why would anyone lend $70,000 in unsecured money to someone whose starting salary is going to be $21,000 and cap out at 50 or 60 grand? No bank would ever do that yet our government hands out this money like candy. Which is exactly why colleges are able to charge such outrageous tuition.

So now the proposal is not to lend this money, but to give it away for free. Imagine how much colleges are going to charge when a large segment of the population is getting totally free, no strings attached money to attend and get whatever low earning degree they feel like getting. It's complete lunacy.

So here the details on my wife's college loan we just researched on today. This is a different loan company from mine. She is not in the education field. She has an administrative position and makes more money than I do. She is also income based repayment plan on this particular loan which is one of her college loans. After 20 years of also meticulous payments, this particular loan is now at $55,000 total. In 1999, when she graduated college it was $46,000 total.

The interest rate on her loan is 5%. Listen I'm open to suggestions here. Aside from the opinion that we weren't worthy of receiving college loans because we aren't both aerospace engineers making $500,000 a year. Why are they going up? The numbers don't wash when you take into account the interest rate and the number of years we've paid on them.

 

[Supersteeler]

Just googled this Income Based Repayment set up and according to this you could possibly have your loans forgiven after 20 years?

https://www.debt.org/students/income-based-repayment-loans/

I don't qualify for any of them. I've attended numerous seminars and loan forgiveness meetings over the years. These companies make sure there are one too many hurdles for you to get over so you just barely do not qualify for any of the programs. I even work in a low income school district which is supposed to be a slam dunk based on what everybody says. Nah, not so much. It's always, "well your loans are federal direct loans and those aren't included in this program" or "you consolidated your loans in 2003, which disqualifies you for forgiveness". It's a scam.