The Coronavirus thread

[Roy92040]

Mrs. Burgundy ordered her monthly 5 gallon bucket of popcorn from a local gourmet popcorn place, curbside pickup now, and started binge-watching all the Star Wars movies. I will attempt to mow the yard with my surgically-repaired shoulder to escape this horror.

I have a Cuisinart Classic-Style Popcorn Maker. And I feed it Great Northern Popcorn Premium 6 Ounce Popcorn Portion Packs. I make a batch of popcorn everyday and watch classic TV programs and movies. Life is good.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Much like wearing a seatbelt is an over-reaction until someone collides with you. It’s a precaution Tim, we don’t know what would have happened to the nation’s health AND economy had we not taken it. Therefor you cannot make the asinine conclusion that “it has been an over-reaction based on what we know so far” YOU don’t know **** about the course not taken.

Freeloading dumbass - this is FACTUALLY an over reaction. You show time and again you cannot read. Given we don't shut the nation down for the flu which has killed 4x more Americans this year, it is an over reaction. UNTIL the virus proves more deadly, it is an over reaction.

You liked Steeltime’s Post #2935.

Swing and miss, AGAIN dipshit. Nowhere in the following am I supporting millions dying you oversimplified vermin. I'm liking his logic he destroyed you with. We both are on the side that the cure is going to cost us more and that means yes, in terms of lives as well. You think the devastation we are doing to our economy won't lead to DEATHS? Then you're far more stupid than we give collectively give you credit for.

Post 2935:

Flogshit said:

Originally Posted by Troglodyte
"Impairs it [the economy] temporarily. As opposed to the 1.6 million whose impairment to live their liives would be permanent."

Please note you randomly throw about 1.6 million as if you're Dr. Fauci, and this number is hypothetical, unsubstantiated horse ****. "But but but they say it could kill millions....yeah so could car crashes or cancer under differing conditions

Steeltime's reply:

Oh, okay.

So 320,000,000 should be impaired, some to poverty and many to significant and irreversible life harm, as a preventative measure?

What's your magic cut-off, Trog? 100,000 lives? 50,000? 25,000? What? Tell me.

Because you better start looking around at what is killing people and in what numbers.

The ******* flu kills at least 19,000 per year, 80,000 in a bad year. You would have a lockdown every winter to prevent that. If not, why not? 20,000 deaths not a problem? 50,000? 75,000? What is your tipping point?

----------------

I'm supporting saving FAR more people by being prudent as I believe, rightfully, the impact of this economic downturn is going to lead to far more problems and deaths - increased crimes, homicides, suicides, health related deaths, starvation etc etc.

That doesn't mean I support any Americans dying fuckwit.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Much like wearing a seatbelt is an over-reaction until someone collides with you. It’s a precaution Tim, we don’t know what would have happened to the nation’s health AND economy had we not taken it. Therefor you cannot make the asinine conclusion that “it has been an over-reaction based on what we know so far” YOU don’t know **** about the course not taken.

You liked Steeltime’s Post #2935.

Masks like mufflers, social distancing like seatbelts.. your analogies are terrible.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Masks like mufflers, social distancing like seatbelts.. your analogies are terrible.

One of the dumbest analogies I've seen ANYONE throw out...comparing a seatbelt to shutting down the entire USA.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/what-the-actual-****.jpg

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

What we know so far (each of these is FACT):
- The flu has killed @30,000 Americans this year
- CV19 has killed 7,851 Americans this year
- The "death rate" for CV19 changes daily and the #s continue to lower as Fauci, WHO, professors, etc walk the numbers back
- Absolute deaths from the flu is, as of today, 4x worse than CV19
- We have shut the country down and we have potentially destroyed the USA, irreparably.

Tim somehow even though you seem to sometimes get it you always seem to revert back these "facts" but I truly don't think you understand the facts around these "facts"
The reason the numbers are adjusted down HERE everyday is we are slowing the spread and increasing our testing, left unchecked this easily could have been millions dead due mainly to a lack of resources to treat them. The numbers you use to justify calling it an overreaction can just as easily be used to justify the reaction. As it stands within the month your numbers comparing this to the flu deaths won't paint such a rosy picture yet you continue to use data that is not comparable. You totally ignore the possibility that the reason the numbers are better than they were saying is the actions that are being taken. You ignore the data from NYC, Italy, France and Spain. I don't get it.

As far as how many deaths are to many? We went to war for a decade over 3000+ deaths in 2001. You acknowledge the rate of spread of this and play platitudes about understanding the problem of overwhelming the Hospitals ability to care for so many respiratory cases at once. This whole things sucks but the alternative is worse at this point unless you really don't value human lives.

Trog has been particularly mellow and level headed(for him) but yet he still gets unwanted grief for it. Usually he deserves it but right now he is participating in the discussion in constructive manner we should be encouraging that.

 

[Spike]

This is pretty much what we have to do. This stuff has to run it's course. All this stuff we're doing right now will buy us time to prepare medically,but herd immunity is pretty much going to be the solution. We could sit at home for 3.months and it will blow back up even if we have a few cases out.

It's coming, the wave, on the horizon now, give it another two weeks

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Tim somehow even though you seem to sometimes get it you always seem to revert back these "facts" but I truly don't think you understand the facts around these "facts"
The reason the numbers are adjusted down HERE everyday is we are slowing the spread and increasing our testing, left unchecked this easily could have been millions dead due mainly to a lack of resources to treat them. The numbers you use to justify calling it an overreaction can just as easily be used to justify the reaction. As it stands within the month your numbers comparing this to the flu deaths won't paint such a rosy picture yet you continue to use data that is not comparable. You totally ignore the possibility that the reason the numbers are better than they were saying is the actions that are being taken. You ignore the data from NYC, Italy, France and Spain. I don't get it.

As far as how many deaths are to many? We went to war for a decade over 3000+ deaths in 2001. You acknowledge the rate of spread of this and play platitudes about understanding the problem of overwhelming the Hospitals ability to care for so many respiratory cases at once. This whole things sucks but the alternative is worse at this point unless you really don't value human lives.

Trog has been particularly mellow and level headed(for him) but yet he still gets unwanted grief for it. Usually he deserves it but right now he is participating in the discussion in constructive manner we should be encouraging that.

If we hadn't treated the flu, polio, the measles, what would the death rate be for those insidious viruses? What "COULD" it have been? Did we shut down the world to combat them? How many would have died? Millions?

All of you, you included, keep acting on today's number and data, which is BAD data because we don't have enough of it. You act as if we aren't making progress. That UPMC may not have a vaccine. That we aren't producing more masks. Like we aren't going to beat this thing...

Because it could kill millions (the fear mongering being thrown about), we have to shut down the world? Again at what cost? Cars and AIDS have killed millions but Wall Street stays open.

Vaccines are coming...as they have for the flu and polio and the measles and small pox. We didn't conquer those viruses by destroying our nation in the process. We are doing so now. And destroying the nation as we rapidly are will cost more lives. Unless you don't care about those lives...? Or the flavor of lives matter?

And when all is said and done, let's speak again with 20/20 hindsight about how we over reacted.

When you can provide real facts explaining to the logical how this virus is worse than ebola, AIDS, measles, polio, smallpox, the Spanish Flu....none of which shut down a country, let alone the world....you may have a point.

Until then, we are over reacting to CV19.

 

[Spike]

Dammit! There goes our 5 lb blocks of gubmint cheese!


U.S. dairy farmers dump milk as pandemic upends food markets

“We need you to start dumping your milk,”contact from Dairy Farmers of America (DFA), the largest U.S. dairy cooperative.

Despite strong demand for basic foods like dairy products amid the coronavirus pandemic, the milk supply chain has seen a host of disruptions that are preventing dairy farmers from getting their products to market.

Mass closures of restaurants and schools have forced a sudden shift from those wholesale food-service markets to retail grocery stores, creating logistical and packaging nightmares for plants processing milk, butter and cheese. Trucking companies that haul dairy products are scrambling to get enough drivers as some who fear the virus have stopped working. And sales to major dairy export markets have dried up as the food-service sector largely shuts down globally.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...as-pandemic-upends-food-markets-idUSKBN21L1DW

 

[Hypocycloids]

Of course I want it to end. My wife works in a hospital. My son works at a grocery store. My brother is an asthmatic who has had multiple bouts of pneumonia. They are all at increased risk.

Ok. I don't why you just didn't answer that in the first place.

You needed to make clear that you reject those on your side you typically root for who are happy about what's goin on.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If we hadn't treated the flu, polio, the measles, what would the death rate be for those insidious viruses? What "COULD" it have been? Did we shut down the world to combat them? How many would have died? Millions?

All of you, you included, keep acting on today's number and data, which is BAD data because we don't have enough of it. You act as if we aren't making progress. That UPMC may not have a vaccine. That we aren't producing more masks. Like we aren't going to beat this thing...

Because it could kill millions (the fear mongering being thrown about), we have to shut down the world? Again at what cost? Cars and AIDS have killed millions but Wall Street stays open.

Vaccines are coming...as they have for the flu and polio and the measles and small pox. We didn't conquer those viruses by destroying our nation in the process. We are doing so now. And destroying the nation as we rapidly are will cost more lives. Unless you don't care about those lives...? Or the flavor of lives matter?

And when all is said and done, let's speak again with 20/20 hindsight about how we over reacted.

When you can provide real facts explaining to the logical how this virus is worse than ebola, AIDS, measles, polio, smallpox, the Spanish Flu....none of which shut down a country, let alone the world....you may have a point.

Until then, we are over reacting to CV19.

Here is the problem Tim, you will never know if we did but we sure as hell would know if we did not. So we shouldn't use modern knowledge and tactics so save lives? We do treat the flu now with vaccines and antivirals it rarely ever overwhelms our healthcare system so we don't have to shut down to fight it. Had we known then what we know now we just might have reacted differently to previous pandemics like we are now. I find your attitude pretty callow towards the fact no conjecture but fact that without acting we would have thousands if not millions dead from this. It is on a pace even now to surpass the flu and that is with social distancing, imagine without it. The economy will recover people are more resilient than you give them credit for. Yes in hindsight we will learn lessons just as we have learned lessons from past pandemics and are using those lessons now.

You are STILL not focusing on the right numbers and buying into media and social media stories and anecdotes that are factually wrong. In area with surges like NYC we are on the verge of the system being completely overwhelmed. That doesn't mean full hospitals that means full ICU and ventilator beds. Of course the hospitals are not full. There is a damn good reason for the lack of many long lines for testing and that is you have to approved to get a test based on a triage system and lack of processing for tests. Once again you are correct the overall fatality rate will be lower when we know the full scope of infections but that doesn't mean squat if ten or hundreds of thousands of people are going to die regardless what that number is. I get your concerns but I totally disagree with your interpretation of the "facts". We as responsible, sentient human beings have to what we can to protect our fellow man. To me that is as much part of the founders view of this Country as our Individual freedoms are. With the right to those individual freedoms comes the responsibility to make sacrifices sometimes for the greater good. That can mean going to war and dying for Country or risking your life serving as a nurse in a pandemic or as simple as sit your god damn *** in your lazyboy watch some TV more awhile or paint your ******* house, make love to your wife or husband or sister for all I care but make a temporary sacrifice for your fellow man without bitching and remember the ultimate sacrifice others have made that gave their life for others. We prospered after world war II we can certainly recover from this. We can come together and actually work with the other side from time to time. We on the right do not have monopoly on the truth all the time.

Buck up and stay at home for the sake of your fellow man and think about those risking their lives to save others.


Rant over.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

One of the dumbest analogies I've seen ANYONE throw out...comparing a seatbelt to shutting down the entire USA.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/what-the-actual-****.jpg

You have to wear them correctly. That’s the issue.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

I’ll just put this here.

Bud txt me asking for my email. I’m like sure why what’s up. “4:30 zoom beers on the deck meeting”. ******* right dude. 30 more minutes.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Had we known then what we know now we just might have reacted differently to previous pandemics like we are now..

This may prove to be absolutely true, however it's never been tried before as far as I know. But viruses historically disappear because of herd immunity, and while shutting down the country and social distancing may prove beneficial in lowering the number of deaths initially, it may take longer for this virus to be completely contained. We won't know if this was the right course of action until this is over.

 

[Ironcitysteelers]

This may prove to be absolutely true, however it's never been tried before as far as I know. But viruses historically disappear because of herd immunity, and while shutting down the country and social distancing may prove beneficial in lowering the number of deaths initially, it may take longer for this virus to be completely contained. We won't know if this was the right course of action until this is over.

Yeah I think there was a middle ground from doing nothing like the F word to closing the world down for the C word.

An example I thought of. Schools. So each tier of school has what 3-4 grades. So let’s say (thinking for my kid) Monday is grade 5. All children go into the large auditorium/cafeteria where they are distanced accordingly. Proper masks worn. All teachers of said grade work together and teach. Next day is 4th. Weds is deep clean. And so on. It’s something.

Restaurants/bars. Similar model. Bar closed. Only tables. Every 3rd is open for people. Proper PPE.

I think a model like this could apply to most biz.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

This may prove to be absolutely true, however it's never been tried before as far as I know. But viruses historically disappear because of herd immunity, and while shutting down the country and social distancing may prove beneficial in lowering the number of deaths initially, it may take longer for this virus to be completely contained. We won't know if this was the right course of action until this is over.

With this particular virus you are right it will take longer to contain it, that is shown on every graph they show, a much lower peak and a longer flatter curve. That is the entire point. this particular virus, when it is severe, totally overwhelms your system causing your own body to fight itself and that creates the respiratory issues. While it absolutely makes it stick around longer, it absolutely will saves lives by not overwhelming us all at once. It won't just lower the number of deaths initially it will drastically lower the number of deaths because with proper care most can survive this even when severe. The problems come when like in Italy the system can't give everyone the proper car. So while there absolutely have been more individually fatal diseases this one kills by quantity not by be all that dangerous to anone one person.

 

[Spike]

Trrump: "There's going to be a lot of death in coming weeks"


Liar!

Fake news!

Scare monger!

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Here is the problem Tim, you will never know if we did but we sure as hell would know if we did not. So we shouldn't use modern knowledge and tactics so save lives?

Answer questions v lecturing. Because you're no more in the know than anyone.

Is CV19 deadlier than anything mankind has ever faced?
Is it deadlier than ebola, AIDs, the Flu?
Have we shut down nations, put tens of millions out of work, ruined economies to fight a virus before?

You seem to think (and I believe this is because of where your daughter works) the epic shutdown and the ensuing costs and the ensuing lives lost due to the shutdown are worth what we are doing.

I disagree.

We as responsible, sentient human beings have to what we can to protect our fellow man.

I don't think you believe this except for right now. In this moment. Because if you believed it, you'd also be looking forward. Consider the following.

When this is over and they calculate the suicide rates associated with the economic downturn due to the shut down, the deaths due to starvation, the deaths due to healthcare people can no longer afford that they once could when they had employer-provided healthcare...what will you say then? That we were responsible or irresponsible? Because the fact is, people are going to die due to the shutdown. Many will die months and years from now because of the "cure" and not due to CV19 directly. We are attempting to fix a major problem only to potentially create epic and greater problems.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance...he-economy-and-is-also-no-good-for-our-health

In an academic article two years ago, Taiwanese researchers showed a direct link between unemployment and suicide, a link that can linger for up to three years after unemployment has already retreated. Even a brief recession has lasting consequences. In rough terms, each 1 percent rise in unemployment leads to one additional suicide for each 100,000 people. If unemployment increases by 5 percent in the current economic shutdown, that could mean some 16,500 additional suicides. A 10 percent spike in unemployment could mean some 30,000 additional suicides.

So if unemployment goes up, studies show suicides could increase as much as 30,000. That's 30,000 lives lost because the economy gets destroyed. Could be even greater. 6.6MILLION went on unemployment last week alone.

But it gets better:

A study by the National Survey of Drug Use and Health found the rate of drug addiction could be as much double for those who are unemployed as for those who are employed full time. Research by the Federal Reserve Bank of Saint Louis concluded that with large increases in unemployment, the number of drug users can also rise dramatically. Yet another study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found a 1 percent increase in the unemployment rate could mean a 3 percent rise in opioid overdose deaths and more than a 6 percent rise in emergency room visits.

More ensuing deaths due to increases in drug addictions. And even MORE of a burden on the healthcare system with a 6% rise in ER visits.

Wait...but that's not all

Among Americans between the ages of 50 and 75, a study in the Archives of Internal Medicine found the unemployed are 35 percent more likely to suffer a heart attack.

35% more heart attacks for those 50-75 that are unemployed...

But hold on, let's add to the total:

There are some 20 million Americans with cancer or survived it, another 30 million with heart disease, 34 million with diabetes, and 35 million with chronic lung disease. All together, nearly one in five Americans are being treated for these ailments. What happens if they cannot get medications and treatments thanks to the economic lockdown? If just one in 1,000 of these people dies because they cannot get their medications, or because hospitals cannot take them in, that is another 75,000 deaths.

75,000 more deaths because, as I said earlier, people can't get treatment due to being broke....

The best quote from the article:

Being smart and reasonable about the costs and benefits of every strategy decision is critical to winning wars against all enemies.

I'm of the mindset, that many here are, that the cure is worse than the virus. If these studies I've posted are true, the aftermath is going to be far more devastating to human life than the loss of life from CV19, not including the epic economic impact toll it will have on us an our nation.

Buck up and stay at home for the sake of your fellow man and think about those risking their lives to save others.

Please don't lecture me when you don't bother to read my posts and recall what I've previously stated. I am a high risk candidate for CV19. I've forced my family on lockdown. I'm leaving my house on average once every 5 days to get groceries and that is it. I've stated all of this before. I'm doing what the government has asked me to do.

And I'm well within my rights to question our nation's approach and to be more worried about the aftermath than I am the current situation, as supported by the evidence shared.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Answer questions v lecturing. Because you're no more in the know than anyone.

Is CV19 deadlier than anything mankind has ever faced?
Is it deadlier than ebola, AIDs, the Flu?
Have we shut down nations, put tens of millions out of work, ruined economies to fight a virus before?

You seem to think (and I believe this is because of where your daughter works) the epic shutdown and the ensuing costs and the ensuing lives lost due to the shutdown are worth what we are doing.

I disagree.



I don't think you believe this except for right now. In this moment. Because if you believed it, you'd also be looking forward. Consider the following.

When this is over and they calculate the suicide rates associated with the economic downturn due to the shut down, the deaths due to starvation, the deaths due to healthcare people can no longer afford that they once could when they had employer-provided healthcare...what will you say then? That we were responsible or irresponsible? Because the fact is, people are going to die due to the shutdown. Many will die months and years from now because of the "cure" and not due to CV19 directly. We are attempting to fix a major problem only to potentially create epic and greater problems.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance...he-economy-and-is-also-no-good-for-our-health



So if unemployment goes up, studies show suicides could increase as much as 30,000. That's 30,000 lives lost because the economy gets destroyed. Could be even greater. 6.6MILLION went on unemployment last week alone.

But it gets better:



More ensuing deaths due to increases in drug addictions. And even MORE of a burden on the healthcare system with a 6% rise in ER visits.

Wait...but that's not all



35% more heart attacks for those 50-75 that are unemployed...

But hold on, let's add to the total:



75,000 more deaths because, as I said earlier, people can't get treatment due to being broke....

The best quote from the article:



I'm of the mindset, that many here are, that the cure is worse than the virus. If these studies I've posted are true, the aftermath is going to be far more devastating to human life than the loss of life from CV19, not including the epic economic impact toll it will have on us an our nation.



Please don't lecture me when you don't bother to read my posts and recall what I've previously stated. I am a high risk candidate for CV19. I've forced my family on lockdown. I'm leaving my house on average once every 5 days to get groceries and that is it. I've stated all of this before. I'm doing what the government has asked me to do.

And I'm well within my rights to question our nation's approach and to be more worried about the aftermath than I am the current situation, as supported by the evidence shared.

Let me ask you some questions you seem to ignore.

Do you want to see our Hospital ICUs totally overrun and unable to care for people they should be able to save?
Do other problems existing negate this problem? I do think we need to revamp our entire healthcare system but that doesn't mean we don't take care of this problem here and now.
I disagree with the tenant that we will not come out of this fairly well economically.
What wold you have done differently without causing a massive surge and millions of lost lives?
By your logic above if we lose 30,000 to suicide but it saves millions which is the better option?
You don't like what we are doing give me a better realistic alternative.

 

[Vader]

I've used the analogy before but it's still apropos. You could eliminate between ~98% to ~99% of all automobile accidents by making the speed limit 5 - 10 MPH. All those lives saved. Millions upon millions of lives saved. But it won't happen because everything would grind to a halt. The economy would collapse but you'd save millions of lives. In business, economic and common sense you have to understand there is a price to pay. Allowing this virus to shut down the world is immoral IMHO. There are better ways to do this, like Tim has suggested, without destroying the economy. Washing your hands, staying 6 feet away from others, wearing masks ETC. Great advice. It can be done without shutting down the world. Because now the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I've used the analogy before but it's still apropos. You could eliminate between ~98% to ~99% of all automobile accidents by making the speed limit 5 - 10 MPH. All those lives saved. Millions upon millions of lives saved. But it won't happen because everything would grind to a halt. The economy would collapse but you'd save millions of lives. In business, economic and common sense you have to understand there is a price to pay. Allowing this virus to shut down the world is immoral IMHO. There are better ways to do this, like Tim has suggested, without destroying the economy. Washing your hands, staying 6 feet away from others, wearing masks ETC. Great advice. It can be done without shutting down the world. Because now the cure is worse than the disease.

Those measures would not do what is needed. This is much easier to spread than you are giving it credit for. Which side of caution would you be willing to be on as President? Seriously put yourself in any of our leader shoes and decide what you would do. I can almost certainly guarantee any of us would be doing something damn close to what is being done. Anything else would be political suicide.

 

[oneforthebus]

Those measures would not do what is needed. This is much easier to spread than you are giving it credit for.

Respectfully, we don't know if this is true. One. because we have no earthly idea how many people already have this or have had it. People who got it long before any of the social distancing measures were put into place. We don't know what the incubation period is. We don't know how many asymptomatic people there are walking around right now or have been for weeks or months.

Two, the hospitalizations and deaths we are seeing now are people who are likely 4-6 weeks out from when they were infected. That means they could have caught it from very close contact with other infected people. We have absolutely no idea how fast or easily it spreads from things like touching surfaces or talking to someone 6 feet away. None.

 

[Vader]

Those measures would not do what is needed. This is much easier to spread than you are giving it credit for. Which side of caution would you be willing to be on as President? Seriously put yourself in any of our leader shoes and decide what you would do. I can almost certainly guarantee any of us would be doing something damn close to what is being done. Anything else would be political suicide.

Again you don't know that. You are assuming to know something that is impossible to know. Do you know that the IHME estimated that over 50,000 hospitalizations were to take place in NY city alone by April 1st? It was off by over 400%. By April 9th they said that NY would need over 76,000 beds. In fact NY has 12,000. I'm tired of people that don't know anything about viruses, computer models or infection rates spewing non-sense. I've been in the science field for over a decade and all i see is people that should know better blowing this all out of proportion. Then you have people that don't know anything reading something that some politically motivated scientist, virologist or Dr. says and running with it.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Respectfully, we don't know if this is true. One. because we have no earthly idea how many people already have this or have had it. People who got it long before any of the social distancing measures were put into place. We don't know what the incubation period is. We don't know how many asymptomatic people there are walking around right now or have been for weeks or months.

Two, the hospitalizations and deaths we are seeing now are people who are likely 4-6 weeks out from when they were infected. That means they could have caught it from very close contact with other infected people. We have absolutely no idea how fast or easily it spreads from things like touching surfaces or talking to someone 6 feet away. None.

To a degree we actually do know some of those things. Again I can point out what is happening right now in NYC where they did not institute the same measures as other areas. Where are they now? California was looking bad and so was washington but they did institute these measures right away and they are doing much better than NYC. Just yesterday there was evidence presented that 12 feet may be what is needed and that this may actually a bit of an airborne spread pattern. as We learn more about it we are finding it is easier not harder to spread. Where it was left to spread it is killing people in pretty large numbers where it was dealt with immediately and with strict measures it isn't. I don't think the evidence needs to be much clearer than that. NY has 3565 dead already and is still a week away from it it's forecast peak. More dead than on 9/11 and this could have been lessened by simply staying home instead of the Mayor telling people to go on about their lives. Many of those sick include our Nurses and Doctors trying to treat this.

We currently sit at 25 deaths per million
Italy currently sits at 254, Spain at 256, France at 116.
If not for the actions taken by Trump and the Governors we would be in the same boat or close to it in many more major cities. Detroit is having problem and Michigans dumb *** governor waited a week longer than Dewine did in Ohio, I know because my son is up there for school.

Again I ask any of the Monday morning quarterbacks on this, what would you realistically as President have done particularly considering the election is november? I want to know what your answers would be taking all politics and advice received that we know of, would you really have done it differently?

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Here is how this is progressing worldwide in deaths. It is still on a nasty up curve and this ignore countless deaths of those who were not tested.

Date Total Change Change in
Deaths in Total Total (%)
Apr. 3* 59,174 5,997 11%
Apr. 2* 53,177 5,979 13%
Apr. 1* 47,198 4,889 12%
Mar. 31* 42,309 4,535 12%
Mar. 30* 37,774 3,709 11%
Mar. 29* 34,065 3,204 10%
Mar. 28* 30,861 3,518 13%
Mar. 27* 27,343 3,270 14%
Mar. 26* 24,073 2,791 13%
Mar. 25* 21,282 2,388 13%
Mar. 24* 18,894 2,381 14%
Mar. 23* 16,513 1,873 13%
Mar. 22* 14,640 1,629 13%
Mar. 21* 13,011 1,625 14%
Mar. 20* 11,386 1,356 14%
Mar. 19* 10,030 1,079 12%
Mar. 18* 8,951 972 12%
Mar. 17* 7,979 817 11%
Mar. 16* 7,162 642 10%
Mar. 15* 6,520 687 12%
Mar. 14* 5,833 405 7%
Mar. 13* 5,428 447 9%
Mar. 12* 4,981 353 8%
Mar. 11* 4,628 332 8%
Mar. 10* 4,296 271 7%
Mar. 9* 4,025 198 5%
Mar. 8* 3,827 228 6%
Mar. 7* 3,599 105 3%
Mar. 6* 3,494 107 3%
Mar. 5* 3,387 102 3%
Mar. 4* 3,285 83 3%
Mar. 3* 3,202 85 3%
Mar. 2* 3,117 67 2%
Mar. 1* 3,050 73 2%
Feb. 29* 2,977 54 2%
Feb. 28* 2,923 65 2%
Feb. 27* 2,858 58 2%
Feb. 26* 2,800 37 1%
Feb. 25* 2,763 64 2%
Feb. 24* 2,699 81 3%
Feb. 23* 2,618 158 6%
Feb. 22* 2,460 100 4%
Feb. 21* 2,360 113 5%
Feb. 20* 2,247 121 6%
Feb. 19* 2,126 117 6%
Feb. 18* 2,009 136 7%
Feb. 17* 1,873 98 6%
Feb. 16* 1,775 106 6%
Feb. 15* 1,669 143 9%
Feb. 14* 1,526 143 10%
Feb. 13* 1,383 122 10%
Feb. 12* 1,261 146 13%
Feb. 11* 1,115 97 10%
Feb. 10* 1,018 108 12%
Feb. 9* 910 97 12%
Feb. 8* 813 89 12%
Feb. 7* 724 86 13%
Feb. 6* 638 73 13%
Feb. 5* 565 73 15%
Feb. 4* 492 66 15%
Feb. 3* 426 64 18%
Feb. 2* 362 58 19%
Feb. 1* 304 45 17%
Jan. 31* 259 46 22%
Jan. 30* 213 43 25%
Jan. 29* 170 38 29%
Jan. 28* 132 26 25%
Jan. 27* 106 26 33%
Jan. 26* 80 24 43%
Jan. 25* 56 15 37%
Jan. 24* 41 16 64%
Jan. 23* 25 8 47%

 

[oneforthebus]

Again I ask any of the Monday morning quarterbacks on this, what would you realistically as President have done particularly considering the election is november? I want to know what your answers would be taking all politics and advice received that we know of, would you really have done it differently?

Because of the unknown and the issue of overwhelming our underprepared healthcare system, I probably wouldn't have done anything differently.

But now some are talking about a months long extension of these measures.

I think once antibody testing gets going, we are going to find out that a whole lot of people have already had this. And also that it's exceedingly rare for younger, healthy people without underlying health issues to have a serious problem with this virus.

And we are going to need to take steps to get things going again with those concepts in mind.

Without a vaccine we are NOT going to be able to keep people who haven't gotten this from getting it. If zero new infections are the measure we might as well all pack it in now, because that is never gonna happen. So then we need to accept the fact that some people are going to get this, and a small percentage of them are going to die. Just like we accept that some people are going to get the flu, and a small percentage of people are going to die from the flu. That is something we are going to have to accept for the greater good. We are going to have to isolate those most at risk and let everyone else get back to living their lives.

Again, I'm acknowledging that it was fully necessary to minimize as much as possible the wave of most people getting it all at once. But I suspect we are going to find out that we were too late to mitigate that by much. So now the question becomes how much damage are willing to do to people's lives after the wave to get the infection and/or death rate close to zero.