The Coronavirus thread
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- Start date
He saw that post. His reply is an attempt to mitigate the entire post through one of his 2nd grade "gotcha" diversions that always fail.
If you look at his posts, every single post does the following things:
1. He ignores 99% of the original post
2. He looks for the smallest gnat of a point he can try to prove wrong or twist so as to try to discredit the entire post and creates one or two "gotcha" questions.
3. He never answers the merits of a post, and often, as with both posts on this page, asks questions to divert the discussion away from the merits mentioned
I've gotten to the point where I ignore these diversions. I will debate if he engages in a discussion about the post - but non his inane "trap" questions like the two posted on this page that have no merit
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Wall Street Journal: Economic Lockdown Is the 'Catastrophe'
Those saying we had to sacrifice the economy to save lives have succeeded in only the former, The Wall Street Journal writes in a scathing rebuke of lockdowns at all costs amid the global coronavirus pandemic.
"The tradeoff isn't between lives and livelihoods," the Journal editorial board concluded. "The policy goal has to be to protect both as much as possible.
"Deploy more personal protective equipment, greatly increase testing, build surge capability to handle flare-ups, and isolate society's most vulnerable to keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed.
"But for heaven's sake reopen the economy so we don't consign millions to years of poverty."
The op-ed was in response to those denouncing a past call back on March 19, "Rethinking the Coronavirus Shutdown," when the shutdowns were only beginning.
"Well, after Friday's horrific jobs report, how do you like the shutdown now?" the Journal wrote. "The people who said we have to sacrifice the economy to crush the virus have succeeded in the former even as the virus will be with us for many more months or longer."
April's unemployment rate showed 14.7% of Americans out of work, the highest rate in record U.S. history, until 6.4 million workers were added to the unemployment line.
"Much of the media continue to treat the economic destruction as a sideshow and present a false choice between saving lives and jobs," the board wrote. "But this is the fastest jobs collapse in modern history. The Great Depression drove millions of Americans into poverty and caused many suicides, and there's a substantial risk this could happen again."
And, most notably, even hospitals are cutting essential frontline workers, as elective surgeries have put healthcare facilities on life support.
"Congress has appropriated $175 billion to shore up hospitals, but this won't help small physician practices much," the board wrote. "Many healthcare providers warn they may not survive if their privately insured patients lose jobs and sign up for Medicaid, which doesn't cover their costs."
The board even rebuked Democrats' plan to keep paying Americans' unemployment indefinitely, until a vaccine that may or may not come.
"The crowd that demands the economy remain locked-down until there's a vaccine, miracle therapy or daily testing of everyone in the country seem to think the government can replace the private economy," the board wrote. "That's a fantasy, and they are betraying the very low- and middle-income workers they claim to represent. Average wages in April rose sharply because so many low-income workers were laid off."
The Journal went as far as sharing President Donald Trump's mantra, "Americans need to work to make a living, and they want to work," even amid the desire to "blame President Trump for the economic pain."
"It is important to stress that the strict lockdowns were a government policy choice," the board wrote. "But the damage is done, and our focus isn't on recriminations. The issue is what to do now, and the public is wise enough to know that public health can't be sustained without a healthy economy.
"Americans can see the destruction all around them. They know the virus will be with us for a long time unless there's a vaccine, so we have to learn to live with it and have a functioning economy."
Those saying we had to sacrifice the economy to save lives have succeeded in only the former, The Wall Street Journal writes in a scathing rebuke of lockdowns at all costs amid the global coronavirus pandemic.
"The tradeoff isn't between lives and livelihoods," the Journal editorial board concluded. "The policy goal has to be to protect both as much as possible.
"Deploy more personal protective equipment, greatly increase testing, build surge capability to handle flare-ups, and isolate society's most vulnerable to keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed.
"But for heaven's sake reopen the economy so we don't consign millions to years of poverty."
The op-ed was in response to those denouncing a past call back on March 19, "Rethinking the Coronavirus Shutdown," when the shutdowns were only beginning.
"Well, after Friday's horrific jobs report, how do you like the shutdown now?" the Journal wrote. "The people who said we have to sacrifice the economy to crush the virus have succeeded in the former even as the virus will be with us for many more months or longer."
April's unemployment rate showed 14.7% of Americans out of work, the highest rate in record U.S. history, until 6.4 million workers were added to the unemployment line.
"Much of the media continue to treat the economic destruction as a sideshow and present a false choice between saving lives and jobs," the board wrote. "But this is the fastest jobs collapse in modern history. The Great Depression drove millions of Americans into poverty and caused many suicides, and there's a substantial risk this could happen again."
And, most notably, even hospitals are cutting essential frontline workers, as elective surgeries have put healthcare facilities on life support.
"Congress has appropriated $175 billion to shore up hospitals, but this won't help small physician practices much," the board wrote. "Many healthcare providers warn they may not survive if their privately insured patients lose jobs and sign up for Medicaid, which doesn't cover their costs."
The board even rebuked Democrats' plan to keep paying Americans' unemployment indefinitely, until a vaccine that may or may not come.
"The crowd that demands the economy remain locked-down until there's a vaccine, miracle therapy or daily testing of everyone in the country seem to think the government can replace the private economy," the board wrote. "That's a fantasy, and they are betraying the very low- and middle-income workers they claim to represent. Average wages in April rose sharply because so many low-income workers were laid off."
The Journal went as far as sharing President Donald Trump's mantra, "Americans need to work to make a living, and they want to work," even amid the desire to "blame President Trump for the economic pain."
"It is important to stress that the strict lockdowns were a government policy choice," the board wrote. "But the damage is done, and our focus isn't on recriminations. The issue is what to do now, and the public is wise enough to know that public health can't be sustained without a healthy economy.
"Americans can see the destruction all around them. They know the virus will be with us for a long time unless there's a vaccine, so we have to learn to live with it and have a functioning economy."
If it was, I could see how it could kill folks who are bedridden to begin with.
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Maybe we should get back to flattening the curve.
Covd
Suicides
Unemployment
And the curves of those negatively affected.....we could relate them to the curves of those unaffected and find the common space in between
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...06nDJxc64bElpzDZMU6kJzOp80-5ut30oBlZXIwl9dxTg
Pressure Mounts on PA Gov. Tom Wolf as Even Democrats Now Question Coronavirus Shutdown
HANNAH BLEAU 9 May 2020
Pressure is increasing on Gov. Tom Wolf (D) to reopen Pennsylvania, even among Democrats, as it is revealed that the vast majority of recent coronavirus deaths in the state occurred at nursing homes or personal care facilities, the Morning Call revealed this week.
Roughly 80 percent of the recently reported deaths in the state of Pennsylvania, 247 out of the 310 reported on Thursday, occurred at either a nursing home or personal care facility.
“There is no excuse for what is going on, okay?” Chester County State Sen. Andrew Dinniman, a Democrat, stated, contending that the Department of Health has failed the most vulnerable — those in nursing homes.
“A total of 3,416 coronavirus deaths has been reported statewide through Thursday. Of those, 2,355, or nearly 69 percent, were associated with nursing or personal care homes,” the outlet reported:
In the Lehigh Valley, the state reported 177 deaths in such facilities, with 77 in Lehigh County and 100 in Northampton County.
This week, the nursing homes operated by Lehigh and Northampton counties, Cedarbrook and Gracedale, both reported sharp increases in deaths.
Over the past seven days, about 76% of deaths added to the state’s total — 850 of the 1,124 newly reported deaths — were at personal care homes or nursing homes.
The statewide death toll has risen to 3,616 as of Saturday morning as the majority of healthy, low-risk individuals remain under stringent lockdown orders.
On Friday, Gov. Tom Wolf (D) announced 13 counties that will be allowed to move into the “yellow” phase of reopening next week — a phase that continues to come with a host of restrictions. Twenty-four Pennsylvania counties moved into that phase on Friday. However, some local leaders of counties in “red” phase states are outraged over the governor’s decision.
Dan Camp, commissioner chairman of Pennsylvania’s Beaver County, said on Friday that the governor’s decision to keep the county in the “red” phase is “unwarranted and irrational,” noting that the vast majority of the county’s coronavirus-related deaths stemmed from nursing homes.
“It’s no secret that nearly 70 percent of our COVID-19 cases and more than 90 percent of Beaver County’s COVID-19 related deaths are attributed to one nursing home within the county,” he said, essentially corroborating the greater findings.
On Wednesday, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s (UPMC) chief medical officer, Dr. Steven Shapiro, also called for the state to reopen, noting that in Pennsylvania, the median age of death from the virus is 84.
“The few younger patients who died all had significant preexisting conditions. Very few children were infected and none died. Minorities in our communities fared equally as well as others, but we know that this is not the case nationally,” Shapiro said during a roundtable discussion with Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA).
“In sum, this is a disease of the elderly, sick and poor,” he added.
The news coincides with a recent analysis of a provisional data set published by the Centers for Disease Control’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), which found that the average age of Americans who have died as a result of the coronavirus between February 1 and May 2 is 75.
Pressure Mounts on PA Gov. Tom Wolf as Even Democrats Now Question Coronavirus Shutdown
HANNAH BLEAU 9 May 2020
Pressure is increasing on Gov. Tom Wolf (D) to reopen Pennsylvania, even among Democrats, as it is revealed that the vast majority of recent coronavirus deaths in the state occurred at nursing homes or personal care facilities, the Morning Call revealed this week.
Roughly 80 percent of the recently reported deaths in the state of Pennsylvania, 247 out of the 310 reported on Thursday, occurred at either a nursing home or personal care facility.
“There is no excuse for what is going on, okay?” Chester County State Sen. Andrew Dinniman, a Democrat, stated, contending that the Department of Health has failed the most vulnerable — those in nursing homes.
“A total of 3,416 coronavirus deaths has been reported statewide through Thursday. Of those, 2,355, or nearly 69 percent, were associated with nursing or personal care homes,” the outlet reported:
In the Lehigh Valley, the state reported 177 deaths in such facilities, with 77 in Lehigh County and 100 in Northampton County.
This week, the nursing homes operated by Lehigh and Northampton counties, Cedarbrook and Gracedale, both reported sharp increases in deaths.
Over the past seven days, about 76% of deaths added to the state’s total — 850 of the 1,124 newly reported deaths — were at personal care homes or nursing homes.
The statewide death toll has risen to 3,616 as of Saturday morning as the majority of healthy, low-risk individuals remain under stringent lockdown orders.
On Friday, Gov. Tom Wolf (D) announced 13 counties that will be allowed to move into the “yellow” phase of reopening next week — a phase that continues to come with a host of restrictions. Twenty-four Pennsylvania counties moved into that phase on Friday. However, some local leaders of counties in “red” phase states are outraged over the governor’s decision.
Dan Camp, commissioner chairman of Pennsylvania’s Beaver County, said on Friday that the governor’s decision to keep the county in the “red” phase is “unwarranted and irrational,” noting that the vast majority of the county’s coronavirus-related deaths stemmed from nursing homes.
“It’s no secret that nearly 70 percent of our COVID-19 cases and more than 90 percent of Beaver County’s COVID-19 related deaths are attributed to one nursing home within the county,” he said, essentially corroborating the greater findings.
On Wednesday, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s (UPMC) chief medical officer, Dr. Steven Shapiro, also called for the state to reopen, noting that in Pennsylvania, the median age of death from the virus is 84.
“The few younger patients who died all had significant preexisting conditions. Very few children were infected and none died. Minorities in our communities fared equally as well as others, but we know that this is not the case nationally,” Shapiro said during a roundtable discussion with Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA).
“In sum, this is a disease of the elderly, sick and poor,” he added.
The news coincides with a recent analysis of a provisional data set published by the Centers for Disease Control’s National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), which found that the average age of Americans who have died as a result of the coronavirus between February 1 and May 2 is 75.
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I keep trying to remain positive.
Usually, in people's lives, the only thing holding them down is their own shortcomings. All one needs to overcome that is to dig deep inside and rise above. But now? We are being crushed, overwhelmingly and incomprehensibly, by our own government. We are trying our best to tread water and the government throws us a cinder-block. .
Usually, in people's lives, the only thing holding them down is their own shortcomings. All one needs to overcome that is to dig deep inside and rise above. But now? We are being crushed, overwhelmingly and incomprehensibly, by our own government. We are trying our best to tread water and the government throws us a cinder-block. .
In every single area that has any quantity of coronavirus deaths, the AVERAGE aga of death is over 80... average... so for every 70 year old a 90 year old has to die... the vast majority of deaths under 70 are terminal patients anyhow...
Open it up wide... it is just the same general target group as the flu.. as everyone predicted from the getgo
Open it up wide... it is just the same general target group as the flu.. as everyone predicted from the getgo
the point wasn't about where it arrived first, but where is spread from the most. From what i have read, the NY strain is genetically different from the strain first found on the west coast. It appears that most of the cases in the US are genetically related to the NY variant than the west coast variant. What that says to me is more people travel in and out of NYC than they do in and out of the WC where it was first found. That really isn't all that surprising to me.
That said, my gut is we really don't know where it hit first. My bet is was here and spreading long before we even understood there was a problem. Not sure the point of entry timing really matters at this point. Oh, perhaps to the wonks that study all this later for lessons learned and such...but not to the average joe like me.
If there was a different strain it would have a different name, or at least a different number, like Covid-20.
Influenza A strains have different numbers (H1N1, H1N2,H2N3).
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They're saving covid20 for the November election.
Finally, something to look forward to.
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Depends on how big the mutation is.
So the longer they keep us closed, the closer this powder keg gets to being lit. This is one example of how Americans are going to come to blows and bloodshed because of this lockdown
Washington residents report threats after naming businesses that could be violating coronavirus rules
Tammy Snider, of Parkland, Pierce County, was one of an estimated 1,500 protesters at a rally in Olympia on Saturday against... (Amanda Snyder / The Seattle Times)
OLYMPIA — As demonstrators of Washington’s stay-at-home order to slow the new coronavirus converged Saturday on the Capitol campus to again protest the restrictions, opposition has taken a darker turn online.
Two Facebook pages during the past week posted names, emails and phone numbers of state residents who had complained to the state about businesses allegedly violating Gov. Jay Inslee’s stay-at-home order. Some of the complainants say the Facebook posts have generated threats of violence and harassment against them.
One group publicizing the names, the Washington Three Percenters, has promoted the stay-at-home protests, and one of its leaders spoke at Saturday’s demonstration.
On its Facebook page, the far-right group of self-described “God fearing Patriots,” had this message: “Want to snitch on your neighbor? Don’t expect to hide behind you (sic) computer screen.” With the message, the group provided a link to a spreadsheet containing the names and contact information of people who made reports to the state.
Gathering in defiance of the stay-at-home order and against the guidance of state and federal public health officials, Saturday’s rally drew roughly 1,500 people, according to the Washington State Patrol. That was fewer than the more than 2,000 who attended a similar protest last month.
The demonstration came as state health officials reported a total of 16,674 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 921 fatalities as of Saturday. Nationwide, more than 77,000 people have died of the virus, according to figures Saturday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Recently, Washington has seen a key measure — the transmission rate of COVID-19 — get slightly worse, according to numbers from the Bellevue-based Institute for Disease Modeling (IDM).
IDM data has shown that the projected infection rate — an estimate of how many people one person with the virus goes on to infect — has risen slightly. It has increased in Western Washington and within King County, as well as in Eastern Washington, according to the data.
The personal contact information posted online of people who had reported businesses potentially violating coronavirus restrictions — which has led to threats against some — was likely obtained through public-records requests to the state, according to Chelsea Hodgson, spokeswoman for the Washington Joint Information Center, which is helping coordinate the state’s pandemic response.
“Several individuals made public disclosure requests for the complaints that have been filed to date,” Hodgson wrote in an email. “This list was likely generated and shared by one of those individuals.”
Hodgson said the state has taken steps to make clear on the web form that complaints are subject to public release. “Individuals may also submit a complaint anonymously,” she added.
A woman on the list shared by the Washington Three Percenters said she quickly got threatening emails and phone messages. The woman, who lives in King County and asked not to be identified because of threats to her safety, had reported a business she said she believed was operating improperly despite Inslee’s stay-home order.
She sent The Seattle Times a voice message that she said was left on her phone. A man says, “You got 48 hours to get the [expletive] out of Washington, or I am coming for you, and your loved ones.” Another caller, a woman, left a voice message, telling her “I hope you choke on the [expletive] virus.”
The woman said she had been unaware her contact information would be disclosed. “Of course I would never have submitted a complaint with the state had I known my personal information would be given to people who would use it to attack me. I was just trying to be a good citizen,” she said in an email. She added that the FBI has contacted her about the threats.
Another person told of receiving “harassing text messages, spam text messages, harassing emails.” That person added, “I’m disappointed the state did not do a better job of protecting our privacy and for not making it clear that our private information will become public if we submit a report.”
Matt Marshall, a leader with the Washington Three Percenters, defended the Facebook post, saying the information was public record and had already been posted online when the group shared it.
Due to the stay-at-home order, “We have enough business owners that are going under, and they want their constitutional right to face their accuser,” Marshall said in an interview at Saturday’s rally.
Marshall said he didn’t condone threats, but if people are going to make allegations about businesses to the state, “they need to stand behind their word.”
Lindsay Schubiner of the Western States Center said “it’s not at all surprising” that people would find and contact residents named online.
“It’s definitely an intimidation tactic,” said Schubiner, program director at the Portland-based nonprofit that promotes racial, social and economic justice.
A Facebook group called Reopen Washington State, which promoted Saturday’s protest, also shared a list of complainants. Some members reacted with glee to the unmasking.
“Snitches belong in ditches,” one man wrote.
“Oh this got famous fast, and people getting death threats a bit harsh, but I’ll bet they don’t do it again!” another added.
Reopen Washington describes itself as state residents opposed to Inslee’s “unconstitutional actions in response to the mass hysteria of COVID-19.”
Asked about the messages directed at Washington residents, Brionna Aho, a spokeswoman for the Attorney General’s Office, said it is potentially a violation of the law to threaten or harass people.
“The conduct of a person using the information in a public record against a person who is the subject of the record would have to be assessed on specific facts and under general civil or criminal laws governing threats or harassment,” Aho wrote in an email. “Depending on the facts, it would be a private civil matter or criminal matter subject to local law enforcement.”
While some Washingtonians have loudly objected to the restrictions on workplaces and social gatherings, polls have shown most residents approve of Inslee’s handling of the pandemic. An Elway Research poll of 405 voters conducted April 18-21 for the online news site Crosscut found 75% rating the governor’s performance positively.
At Saturday’s rally, Marshall, the Three Percenter leader, told the crowd about his new ballot initiative to implement term limits for state elected officials. Marshall has also announced a run against House Republican Leader J.T. Wilcox of Yelm.
Rep. Matt Shea, a Spokane Valley lawmaker suspended last year from the GOP House caucus after a House-commissioned investigation found he planned and participated in domestic terrorism, led the crowd in a chant of “Freedom is the cure.”
Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, called for resistance to a state plan to trace contacts that an infected person has had to limit new potential outbreaks of COVID-19. Walsh said the approach was “one more slip down that slippery slope of servitude.”
Joey Gibson, leader of the right-wing group Patriot Prayer, called out police, saying they would have to make a choice whether to enforce stay-at-home laws. “If you are in law enforcement and you decide to break the Constitution … you are no longer law enforcement, you are a lawbreaker,” he said.
Washington residents report threats after naming businesses that could be violating coronavirus rules
Tammy Snider, of Parkland, Pierce County, was one of an estimated 1,500 protesters at a rally in Olympia on Saturday against... (Amanda Snyder / The Seattle Times)
OLYMPIA — As demonstrators of Washington’s stay-at-home order to slow the new coronavirus converged Saturday on the Capitol campus to again protest the restrictions, opposition has taken a darker turn online.
Two Facebook pages during the past week posted names, emails and phone numbers of state residents who had complained to the state about businesses allegedly violating Gov. Jay Inslee’s stay-at-home order. Some of the complainants say the Facebook posts have generated threats of violence and harassment against them.
One group publicizing the names, the Washington Three Percenters, has promoted the stay-at-home protests, and one of its leaders spoke at Saturday’s demonstration.
On its Facebook page, the far-right group of self-described “God fearing Patriots,” had this message: “Want to snitch on your neighbor? Don’t expect to hide behind you (sic) computer screen.” With the message, the group provided a link to a spreadsheet containing the names and contact information of people who made reports to the state.
Gathering in defiance of the stay-at-home order and against the guidance of state and federal public health officials, Saturday’s rally drew roughly 1,500 people, according to the Washington State Patrol. That was fewer than the more than 2,000 who attended a similar protest last month.
The demonstration came as state health officials reported a total of 16,674 confirmed cases of COVID-19, including 921 fatalities as of Saturday. Nationwide, more than 77,000 people have died of the virus, according to figures Saturday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Recently, Washington has seen a key measure — the transmission rate of COVID-19 — get slightly worse, according to numbers from the Bellevue-based Institute for Disease Modeling (IDM).
IDM data has shown that the projected infection rate — an estimate of how many people one person with the virus goes on to infect — has risen slightly. It has increased in Western Washington and within King County, as well as in Eastern Washington, according to the data.
The personal contact information posted online of people who had reported businesses potentially violating coronavirus restrictions — which has led to threats against some — was likely obtained through public-records requests to the state, according to Chelsea Hodgson, spokeswoman for the Washington Joint Information Center, which is helping coordinate the state’s pandemic response.
“Several individuals made public disclosure requests for the complaints that have been filed to date,” Hodgson wrote in an email. “This list was likely generated and shared by one of those individuals.”
Hodgson said the state has taken steps to make clear on the web form that complaints are subject to public release. “Individuals may also submit a complaint anonymously,” she added.
A woman on the list shared by the Washington Three Percenters said she quickly got threatening emails and phone messages. The woman, who lives in King County and asked not to be identified because of threats to her safety, had reported a business she said she believed was operating improperly despite Inslee’s stay-home order.
She sent The Seattle Times a voice message that she said was left on her phone. A man says, “You got 48 hours to get the [expletive] out of Washington, or I am coming for you, and your loved ones.” Another caller, a woman, left a voice message, telling her “I hope you choke on the [expletive] virus.”
The woman said she had been unaware her contact information would be disclosed. “Of course I would never have submitted a complaint with the state had I known my personal information would be given to people who would use it to attack me. I was just trying to be a good citizen,” she said in an email. She added that the FBI has contacted her about the threats.
Another person told of receiving “harassing text messages, spam text messages, harassing emails.” That person added, “I’m disappointed the state did not do a better job of protecting our privacy and for not making it clear that our private information will become public if we submit a report.”
Matt Marshall, a leader with the Washington Three Percenters, defended the Facebook post, saying the information was public record and had already been posted online when the group shared it.
Due to the stay-at-home order, “We have enough business owners that are going under, and they want their constitutional right to face their accuser,” Marshall said in an interview at Saturday’s rally.
Marshall said he didn’t condone threats, but if people are going to make allegations about businesses to the state, “they need to stand behind their word.”
Lindsay Schubiner of the Western States Center said “it’s not at all surprising” that people would find and contact residents named online.
“It’s definitely an intimidation tactic,” said Schubiner, program director at the Portland-based nonprofit that promotes racial, social and economic justice.
A Facebook group called Reopen Washington State, which promoted Saturday’s protest, also shared a list of complainants. Some members reacted with glee to the unmasking.
“Snitches belong in ditches,” one man wrote.
“Oh this got famous fast, and people getting death threats a bit harsh, but I’ll bet they don’t do it again!” another added.
Reopen Washington describes itself as state residents opposed to Inslee’s “unconstitutional actions in response to the mass hysteria of COVID-19.”
Asked about the messages directed at Washington residents, Brionna Aho, a spokeswoman for the Attorney General’s Office, said it is potentially a violation of the law to threaten or harass people.
“The conduct of a person using the information in a public record against a person who is the subject of the record would have to be assessed on specific facts and under general civil or criminal laws governing threats or harassment,” Aho wrote in an email. “Depending on the facts, it would be a private civil matter or criminal matter subject to local law enforcement.”
While some Washingtonians have loudly objected to the restrictions on workplaces and social gatherings, polls have shown most residents approve of Inslee’s handling of the pandemic. An Elway Research poll of 405 voters conducted April 18-21 for the online news site Crosscut found 75% rating the governor’s performance positively.
At Saturday’s rally, Marshall, the Three Percenter leader, told the crowd about his new ballot initiative to implement term limits for state elected officials. Marshall has also announced a run against House Republican Leader J.T. Wilcox of Yelm.
Rep. Matt Shea, a Spokane Valley lawmaker suspended last year from the GOP House caucus after a House-commissioned investigation found he planned and participated in domestic terrorism, led the crowd in a chant of “Freedom is the cure.”
Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, called for resistance to a state plan to trace contacts that an infected person has had to limit new potential outbreaks of COVID-19. Walsh said the approach was “one more slip down that slippery slope of servitude.”
Joey Gibson, leader of the right-wing group Patriot Prayer, called out police, saying they would have to make a choice whether to enforce stay-at-home laws. “If you are in law enforcement and you decide to break the Constitution … you are no longer law enforcement, you are a lawbreaker,” he said.
Attachments
Please elaborate.
Woah, if this is true this is HUGE
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Birx said 'there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust' in a White House coronavirus task force meeting
Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus task force response coordinator, blasted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a White House coronavirus task force meeting during a discussion on COVID-19 data, according to The Washington Post.
"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust," she told CDC Director Robert Redfield, two people familiar with the meeting told the newspaper.
The Post reported that Birx and others feared that the CDC's statistics on mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.
Birx later told The Post in a statement that "mortality is slowly declining each day."
"To keep with this trend, it is essential that seniors and those with comorbidities shelter in place and that we continue to protect vulnerable communities," she said.
Yet other sources have shown that mortality in the US remains close to 2,000 daily deaths — and does not show a steady downward trajectory, as Birx said.
Recent research has also indicated that COVID-19 deaths have been severely undercounted, both in the US and around the world, particularly in the early stages of the pandemic.
One internal Trump administration model also projected that coronavirus deaths would reach a whopping 3,000 deaths per day by June 1, which is nearly double the current rate of roughly 1,750, according to The New York Times.
Several of The Post's sources described the meeting with Birx and Redfield as "heated," though two other sources disagreed.
According to The Post, Redford defended the CDC in the meeting, but many agreed the agency needed a digital upgrade.
Another flashpoint in the meeting came during a discussion on the drug remdesivir, which has shown promising early results in clinical trials and the Trump administration is distributing to hard-hit states.
According to The Post, one official in the meeting announced that the government had already shipped the drug to seven states. The news reportedly caught Birx and others by surprise, since they had not yet decided which states should be prioritized.
"Why would you do that?" Birx asked the official, according to The Post.
-------------------------------
Birx said 'there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust' in a White House coronavirus task force meeting
Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus task force response coordinator, blasted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a White House coronavirus task force meeting during a discussion on COVID-19 data, according to The Washington Post.
"There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust," she told CDC Director Robert Redfield, two people familiar with the meeting told the newspaper.
The Post reported that Birx and others feared that the CDC's statistics on mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.
Birx later told The Post in a statement that "mortality is slowly declining each day."
"To keep with this trend, it is essential that seniors and those with comorbidities shelter in place and that we continue to protect vulnerable communities," she said.
Yet other sources have shown that mortality in the US remains close to 2,000 daily deaths — and does not show a steady downward trajectory, as Birx said.
Recent research has also indicated that COVID-19 deaths have been severely undercounted, both in the US and around the world, particularly in the early stages of the pandemic.
One internal Trump administration model also projected that coronavirus deaths would reach a whopping 3,000 deaths per day by June 1, which is nearly double the current rate of roughly 1,750, according to The New York Times.
Several of The Post's sources described the meeting with Birx and Redfield as "heated," though two other sources disagreed.
According to The Post, Redford defended the CDC in the meeting, but many agreed the agency needed a digital upgrade.
Another flashpoint in the meeting came during a discussion on the drug remdesivir, which has shown promising early results in clinical trials and the Trump administration is distributing to hard-hit states.
According to The Post, one official in the meeting announced that the government had already shipped the drug to seven states. The news reportedly caught Birx and others by surprise, since they had not yet decided which states should be prioritized.
"Why would you do that?" Birx asked the official, according to The Post.
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I thought the washington post was fake news? To me this article is just a bunch of noise. How many articles have been posted about Trump's meetings with things he said or supposedly said by "officials?" I do believe there is some over-inflating, but i also believe the virus has been around much longer than previously known and probably has many uncounted deaths early on. The bottom line is I think everyone is clueless right now. Dont know where the virus came from, dont how long its been around, dont know how many people did not have symptoms, dont know how many people had just minor symptoms with it. Any "experts" are just guessing no matter what political landscape they want. All we do know is the virus is very contagious and really destroys older people. Trump and / or Pence are going to end up with it just due to pure stupidity or trying to look macho. I really dont understand why people just wont put a mask on. The usefullness can be debated, but even if it helps a little bit its not going to kill anyone to wear a mask.
The Washington Post isn't enough? Even the ultra left wing Salon is reporting it https://www.salon.com/2020/05/09/de...e-she-can-trust-nothing-from-the-cdc_partner/
What is news is that Dr Birx is STATING death rates are overblown by AT LEAST a quarter. She and Fauci are the voice for this. They are the ones that are using IMHE as their models. Their words are driving us infinitely beyond "15 days to slow the curve" to a perpetual, never ending shut down. Their words have helped destroy the US Economy. Their words have helped put over 30 Million Americans out of work.
Now SHE, one of the two PRIMARY voices is saying what we have all suspected - the death rates are over-inflated by a quarter, and those death rates drive the fear and the paranoia that leads to further crippling of the country?
It's monumentally huge that she's walking it back.
I just want to restate that daily deaths dont get logged the day of, or the next day... they do an investigation, then add them when they conclude that it was covid that may have caused it... so here are all the problems with that
A. The virus itself takes 2 to 14 days to show symptoms... death typically comes 10 to twenty days after showing symptoms but could be as long as 30 daysor more in some cases. So the numbers should theoretically be fluctuating greatly day to day
B. The investigation period also varies, a straight positive test on a person who had symptoms then died of those causes os going to be added immediately, somebody with no positive tests might not be added for a month or more... because in some cases there is a coroner’s report then they have to make a separate decision after that is filed if the coroner didn’t rule it the virus... So this adds a ton more variables
C. The symptoms of This coronavirus is basically the same as allergies, colds and flus... but with so many combinations of what you may or may not have, that post recording deaths is not going to be accurate at all without testing the dead for it... you would basically be recording most illness deaths as it... so yes it would be ridiculously inflated ...
D... with all of that the way the curves have held up make it pretty obvious that someone is cooking the books...
A. The virus itself takes 2 to 14 days to show symptoms... death typically comes 10 to twenty days after showing symptoms but could be as long as 30 daysor more in some cases. So the numbers should theoretically be fluctuating greatly day to day
B. The investigation period also varies, a straight positive test on a person who had symptoms then died of those causes os going to be added immediately, somebody with no positive tests might not be added for a month or more... because in some cases there is a coroner’s report then they have to make a separate decision after that is filed if the coroner didn’t rule it the virus... So this adds a ton more variables
C. The symptoms of This coronavirus is basically the same as allergies, colds and flus... but with so many combinations of what you may or may not have, that post recording deaths is not going to be accurate at all without testing the dead for it... you would basically be recording most illness deaths as it... so yes it would be ridiculously inflated ...
D... with all of that the way the curves have held up make it pretty obvious that someone is cooking the books...
Well not early on based on my experience. There are two parts to this, the early part and where we are now. In those first two months testing wasn’t as available as it is now and on top of that results sometime took 7-10 plus days pending on county you were in. So if a patient died without a test being done, it was listed as COVID as reasonable cause. Regardless of whatever other health issues they had. Could it have been, sure...could it been something else...yes.
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Birx and the CDC director are not arguing over actual deaths, they are arguing over future projections. Birx thinks the mortality rate is coming down by June 1 and the CDC
says its going up. We can wait and see who is actually correct.
says its going up. We can wait and see who is actually correct.
The CDC is the same group that told people for 45 days that wearing a mask would not have any impact on stopping or spreading the virus. Their credibility is right up there with the WHO.