The Second Amendment

[DBS1970]

do you think the ban on fully automatic weapons is constitutional? I do. If you read the 2nd amendment to mean no limitations are allowed, we have a disagreement.

Then you and I are in disagreement then.

 

[DBS1970]

We don't have their interpretation, we just have their wording.

Which is plain as day and written in unequivocal language.

 

[hamster]

I'm not for abolishing the second amendment. I'm for rewriting it to say exactly what it should mean rather than twisting the interpretation
to be what you want it to say.

If you could bring back the original Constitution writers today, update them on what the world is like today and put them in a room to
write a Constitution: it would not come out exactly like the first one.

No thanks. Have a nice day.

 

[Vis]

Define for me a fully automatic weapon. Not to be a smartass, but I have heard people on the gun ban side define full auto as an AR-15.

An ar-15 can have a fully automatic trigger pack or a burst pack so that's valid depending.

 

[ark steel]

An ar-15 can have a fully automatic trigger pack or a burst pack so that's valid depending.

If it is anything other than semi-auto, it is illegal for the vast majority people to own. It is against the law to modify a semi- into full- auto.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I don't understand the logic of the left here. Chipping away at the right to bear arms does nothing but disarm law abiding gun owners to incremental degrees. It has no effect on bad guys. You either agree that it is a right, or you don't. Everybody understands that America is unique in the importance we place on this right, and everybody understands that this will result in bad guys getting their hands on guns. The idea of limiting good guys is retarded in this context. You either agree to the right or not. You don't half-*** agree and put the good guys at a government mandated disadvantage.

 

[Vis]

If it is anything other than semi-auto, it is illegal for the vast majority people to own. It is against the law to modify a semi- into full- auto.

yes, but should it be under the 2nd amendment. That's the disagreement we're discussing

 

[diver]

yes, but should it be under the 2nd amendment. That's the disagreement we're discussing

Right. But what we are trying to determine is what your definition of fully automatic is. That is important. I don't know what I am arguing with. Again, people who should know better, reporters and so forth who are responsible for reporting accurate news have called the AR-15 a fully automatic weapon, which it is most definitely not. As stated it is presently illegal to own full auto, unless you have a special license. Again, I do not like to infer, but judging from your response, since one could illegally obtain those items for the AR, you would include the AR as a full auto. For example, once the government considers a gun full auto, it always is. an example would be the M-14. You cannot buy military surplus M-14 like you can M-1 Garands, even though the selector switch has been removed because the government will always consider an M-14 full auto. I think that is bullshit.

 

[Vis]

Right. But what we are trying to determine is what your definition of fully automatic is. That is important. I don't know what I am arguing with. Again, people who should know better, reporters and so forth who are responsible for reporting accurate news have called the AR-15 a fully automatic weapon, which it is most definitely not. As stated it is presently illegal to own full auto, unless you have a special license. Again, I do not like to infer, but judging from your response, since one could illegally obtain those items for the AR, you would include the AR as a full auto. For example, once the government considers a gun full auto, it always is. an example would be the M-14. You cannot buy military surplus M-14 like you can M-1 Garands, even though the selector switch has been removed because the government will always consider an M-14 full auto. I think that is bullshit.

An ar-15 can be fully automatic. One sold legally here would not be. But i would support a law saying that weapons that can be converted to fully auto should be illegal. Any feature you want in a semi-auto ar-15 could be made available in a weapon that cannot be converted to fully auto.

 

[DBS1970]

I'm going to make a correction here. It is in fact legal for civilians to own for the automatic weapons. You simply have to have a federal firearms license and a tax stamp for each weapon that is fully automatic. You see licensing is how the government steals your natural rights and then sells them back to you for a yearly fee.

 

[diver]

An ar-15 can be fully automatic. One sold legally here would not be. But i would support a law saying that weapons that can be converted to fully auto should be illegal. Any feature you want in a semi-auto ar-15 could be made available in a weapon that cannot be converted to fully auto.

Again, you would only affect the people who are obeying the law. I have never had a thought of converting my AR into full auto. It is illegal. So you would support taking that away from me knowing I obey the law, while the people who won't obey the law will do what they want to do, anyway.

This is nothing new, but the main point here is laws only effect the law abiding. You cannot escape that, and that is where the "sensible" gun laws argument falls apart.

 

[Vis]

Again, you would only affect the people who are obeying the law. I have never had a thought of converting my AR into full auto. It is illegal. So you would support taking that away from me knowing I obey the law, while the people who won't obey the law will do what they want to do, anyway.

This is nothing new, but the main point here is laws only effect the law abiding. You cannot escape that, and that is where the "sensible" gun laws argument falls apart.

If it was replaced by a weapon with every feature of the one you have other than it being convertible, what have you lost?

Do you use that argument that laws are useless because only law abiding people follow them in any other context? Do you use it for rape? Murder? Theft? Kidnapping?

The reason for the laws is so you can punish the lawbreaker and deter others.

 

[diver]

If it was replaced by a weapon with every feature of the one you have other than it being convertible, what have you lost?

Do you use that argument that laws are useless because only law abiding people follow them in any other context? Do you use it for rape? Murder? Theft? Kidnapping?

The reason for the laws is so you can punish the lawbreaker and deter others.

1. And what have you gained if you do that? Of the recent shootings, when was a converted AR-15 to full auto use?

There is no Constitutional right to rape, murder, theft or kidnapping.

2. Except our government as it pertains to gun laws.

A few years ago, Kelly Ayote made a statement that seemed ridiculous. She stated that for 2012 there were something like 80,000 federal firearms cases, and only 64 were prosecuted. I looked this up on politifact. Now, they went through all kinds of twists to try to say she was wrong, it was 2010 this happened, it didn't take into account state or local prosecutions and all that. Most people quit reading and figure she was full of ****. Turns out at the end they found her statement to be mostly true.

 

[Vis]

1. And what have you gained if you do that? Of the recent shootings, when was a converted AR-15 to full auto use?

There is no Constitutional right to rape, murder, theft or kidnapping.

2. Except our government as it pertains to gun laws.

A few years ago, Kelly Ayote made a statement that seemed ridiculous. She stated that for 2012 there were something like 80,000 federal firearms cases, and only 64 were prosecuted. I looked this up on politifact. Now, they went through all kinds of twists to try to say she was wrong, it was 2010 this happened, it didn't take into account state or local prosecutions and all that. Most people quit reading and figure she was full of ****. Turns out at the end they found her statement to be mostly true.

Of the recent shootings, which survivors wouldn't exist if it was fully automatic?

Failure to prosecute arguments always ignore that the DA offices are understaffed and underfunded. Tax cuts.

 

[diver]

Of the recent shootings, which survivors wouldn't exist if it was fully automatic?

Failure to prosecute arguments always ignore that the DA offices are understaffed and underfunded. Tax cuts.

Oh, bullshit. 64 out of 80,000 because of tax cuts? But they have all he time in the world to go after some poor farmer in Bumville ,PA or something over a ******' bog turtle. That statement might be the biggest crock you have ever stated.

Wayne LaPierre was right. The ideologues on the left are perfectly fine with death as long as it advances their agenda. Prosecuting and actually have it be a deterrent does not get them to their ultimate goal of repealing the 2nd Amendment.

As per the first part, it wasn't full auto. Hypothetical. And in the event, if it is as easy to do as you claim, why wasn't it? You'd figure it would be nothing but machine guns out there gunning down innocents.

 

[Vis]

Oh, bullshit. 64 out of 80,000 because of tax cuts? But they have all he time in the world to go after some poor farmer in Bumville ,PA or something over a ******' bog turtle. That statement might be the biggest crock you have ever stated.

Wayne LaPierre was right. The ideologues on the left are perfectly fine with death as long as it advances their agenda. Prosecuting and actually have it be a deterrent does not get them to their ultimate goal of repealing the 2nd Amendment.

As per the first part, it wasn't full auto. Hypothetical. And in the event, if it is as easy to do as you claim, why wasn't it? You'd figure it would be nothing but machine guns out there gunning down innocents.

If you want to complain about useless choices, complain about prosecuting possession of a joint.

Nutjobs who want to commit suicide while taking out a bunch of other people grab what they can get. I don't want them to be able to grab fully automatic weapons.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I don't want them to be able to grab fully automatic weapons.

Beautiful. Probably the best thing I've ever read that you've written. I couldn't agree more. We could actually fix these mass killings like Orlando and the rest of them if guns just didn't exist. I don't want any of those ******* to have the ability to get a gun and take out as many people as they can on their way to Allah. Period. Take away those awful guns, eliminate the problem.

 

[Vis]

Beautiful. Probably the best thing I've ever read that you've written. I couldn't agree more. We could actually fix these mass killings like Orlando and the rest of them if guns just didn't exist. I don't want any of those ******* to have the ability to get a gun and take out as many people as they can on their way to Allah. Period. Take away those awful guns, eliminate the problem.

It's always a stupid argument to say if you can't fix every problem it's useless to fix one problem. Congrats.

Why bother curing polio when people die of cancer?

 

[diver]

If you want to complain about useless choices, complain about prosecuting possession of a joint.

Nutjobs who want to commit suicide while taking out a bunch of other people grab what they can get. I don't want them to be able to grab fully automatic weapons.

That's fine. But you just admitted that your statement about tax cuts was bullshit. They have the people/money to prosecute possession of a joint but not a firearm violation, huh?

As per the second part, they are not grabbing those. It's a strawman argument to used to try and scoop up other firearms in the wash.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

If you want to complain about useless choices, complain about prosecuting possession of a joint.

Nutjobs who want to commit suicide while taking out a bunch of other people grab what they can get. I don't want them to be able to grab fully automatic weapons.

Where the **** can they grab fully automatic weapons. It is very hard and very expensive to get a fully automatic weapon. It is not even an issue. ******* idiot gun grabbers that want to equate a semi auto with fully auto are just clueless ******* sheep. You can't truly believe half the stuff you post, you can't truly be that dense or stupid it has to be a joke. I don't see how liberalism survives in the face of the idiocy it espouses. I understand the bleeding heart want to help everybody attitude but it only takes a little intelligence to see that is not what liberalism does.

 

[IndySteel]

The problem isn't polio or cancer, or guns or trucks. The problem is Muslims. That's what needs to be solved.

 

[Vis]

The problem isn't polio or cancer, or guns or trucks. The problem is Muslims. That's what needs to be solved.

The problem wasn't Muslims in Charleston

 

[DBS1970]

The problem wasn't Muslims in Charleston

Muslims were the problem in Fort Hood, Orlando, California and all over Europe at the moment.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

It's always a stupid argument to say if you can't fix every problem it's useless to fix one problem. Congrats.

Why bother curing polio when people die of cancer?

This is the problem, this is how you nut jobs actually view it. You actually truly believe that with fewer guns, criminals will commit fewer crimes. YOU ACTUALLY BUY THIS.

That's the scariest part of this all. It's been said a billion times - criminals rarely get their guns legally. They don't follow laws. In the case that the laws work, they STILL don't prevent people like our Orlando shooter or the Newtown shooter from getting guns.

Which brings us right back, front and center to the problem. It's not the guns. It's never been the guns. It's never going to be the guns. It's the people. You fix the people. It's the ONLY way to fix the problem.

So you're not "fixing anything" when you try to get rid of guns. You're not curing polio. You're putting a band aid on polio and acting as if it's disappeared.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Libs - their economic policies ruin the economy, their healthcare policies raise cost and lower service, their race fixation divides the nation, their Justice Dept. has decimated the effectiveness of police in the areas needing it most, and they really want to be like Europe at a time when Europe is ******** the bed.

Always funny when they pretend to be smart and smug in the face of all of this.