The tariff issue

[Ron Burgundy]

Interesting that you should point this out Ron. Hot rod online just came up with yet another article about substandard Chinese knock off performance parts.

This leads me to another point about us being in a trade war for the last 40 years. China in addition to being a currency manipulator has about the worst record in the world for respecting patents and intellectual property. They counterfeit everything from designer clothes to computer software. That's another way we lose billions to them every year. That has to stop and I think Trump realizes this and will put a stop to it.

 

[Troglodyte]

Or they just buy stuff from other countries.....

And then where does the funding for the wall come from?

 

[Troglodyte]

Other countries still have too many restrictions on letting our stuff in. **** 'em. Tariffs make U.S.-made products relatively cheaper. Mexico's economy is not our problem.

How so? If your competition raises its prices due to a tariffs, thereby making demand for your product increase, why would you lower the price?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

And then where does the funding for the wall come from?

Same place where the $221 million that Bammy gave the Palestinians came from.

How so? If your competition raises its prices due to a tariffs, thereby making demand for your product increase, why would you lower the price?

Then you don't understand the meaning of the word "relatively" and should maybe refrain from commenting on economic issues.

 

[Troglodyte]

Then you don't understand the meaning of the word "relatively" and should maybe refrain from commenting on economic issues.

So what you meant was Tariffs will make US made products more expensive but relatively cheaper compared to foreign products.

Great. What's your point?

 

[Confluence]

But the other side of tariffs, and no one here is accounting for, is that if you don't restrict or tax imports of our stuff and trade unfairly then we won't restrict or tax imports of your stuff and trade unfairly.
The other thing with China, India, Pacific Rim, is that they have little or no environmental and worker protection regulations. I can't believe that any good Liberal would want to support business in countries that pollute the air and water and if a worker is killed or injured on the job they just sell his organs and bring in another one.

LOL at " any good Liberal". Too funny.

You are correct. But the problem lies not in the trade deal, but in the compliance of both sides. If one side is not compliant, not a fair deal.

On costing of environmental impacts, well, that is just ****** up beyond sensibilities, and anyone that suggests otherwise is a liar or stupid.

The trade deals work specifically because of the lower cost of labor, due to poorer conditions in the low wage country. The mechanism to improving wages and working/economic conditions is to have initial low paying jobs where few existed. China is a shining example of this over the past couple generations. That the US feels ripped off is not due to the structure of the deal, but to the enforcement of other constructs, like reciprocal tariffs, on both sides.

Ask yourself about the Chinese exports to the US thru Walmart: Which groups benefitted and which groups lost? There is more than one "bad guy" in these deals.....

 

[Confluence]

Interesting that you should point this out Ron. Hot rod online just came up with yet another article about substandard Chinese knock off performance parts.

This leads me to another point about us being in a trade war for the last 40 years. China in addition to being a currency manipulator has about the worst record in the world for respecting patents and intellectual property. They counterfeit everything from designer clothes to computer software. That's another way we lose billions to them every year. That has to stop and I think Trump realizes this and will put a stop to it.

The largest currency manipulator the globe has ever known is clear: United States of America.

This was behaviour learned from the Brits (see late entry into WWII), and emboldened by Nixon and Kissinger in abolishing any tie to gold, and by insisting all global oil trades are in USD.

How many countries have tried to trade oil in non-USD? How many have been subject to US Military actions shortly there-after?

C'Mon man.

 

[DBS1970]

The largest currency manipulator the globe has ever known is clear: United States of America.

This was behaviour learned from the Brits (see late entry into WWII), and emboldened by Nixon and Kissinger in abolishing any tie to gold, and by insisting all global oil trades are in USD.

How many countries have tried to trade oil in non-USD? How many have been subject to US Military actions shortly there-after?

C'Mon man.

C'mon Man yourself Snowback.

You know goddamn well the Chicoms keep there currency artifically low.

 

[Confluence]

C'mon Man yourself Snowback.

You know goddamn well the Chicoms keep there currency artifically low.

Holy ****. What overly simplistic, incorrect horseshit.



When the price of oil/gas goes down in the US, it is a net economic benefit for Americans. Yes or No?

What happens globally when the the price of oil moves dramatically? Look at non-oil producing nations, and oil producing nations.

The answer may be uncomfortable.

 

[DBS1970]

Holy ****. What overly simplistic, incorrect horseshit.



When the price of oil/gas goes down in the US, it is a net economic benefit for Americans. Yes or No?

What happens globally when the the price of oil moves dramatically? Look at non-oil producing nations, and oil producing nations.

The answer may be uncomfortable.

When the price of oil goes down it benefits the end user in every country. Even in the producing/exporting nations do well because even though the price per unit goes down they sell more. It doesn't change the fact of what China does.

 

[Confluence]

When the price of oil goes down it benefits the end user in every country. Even in the producing/exporting nations do well because even though the price per unit goes down they sell more. It doesn't change the fact of what China does.

Please do some research on oil prices in non-oil producing countries and even oil producing countries. You could use any Caribbean island nation, and Canada for your work.

You will be surprised that what you find is counter to your incorrect ECO 101 analyses.

And:

China's currency controls are mostly reflected in outflows, to keep Chinese nationals from removing their monies. This keeps the yuan higher. If China got rid of its capital controls, its currency would go lower.

You can see, clearly, evidence of the continual trend lower for the remnibi::

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=CNY&to=USD&view=10Y

OOPS!

It has been getting stronger for most of the past decade. Clear manipulation, right?

You could look it up, and prove this incorrect....

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[Ron Burgundy]

So what you meant was Tariffs will make US made products more expensive but relatively cheaper compared to foreign products.

Great. What's your point?

Umm, no, you're still wrong. That word "relatively" is still tripping you up. Hell, the word "tariffs" is tripping you up. Maybe you should just quit before you look more stupid.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Let's try it and see what happens. Then one half of this argument can shut the **** up.

 

[Troglodyte]

Umm, no, you're still wrong. That word "relatively" is still tripping you up. Hell, the word "tariffs" is tripping you up. Maybe you should just quit before you look more stupid.

OK, gloves off. I did nothing more than ask a question and you got pissy, evasive and insulting. Why? Ever stop to consider that maybe that MBA of yours hasn't failed you, rather you have failed it?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

OK, gloves off. I did nothing more than ask a question and you got pissy, evasive and insulting. Why? Ever stop to consider that maybe that MBA of yours hasn't failed you, rather you have failed it?

You calling someone else pissy and insulting is pretty funny right there. You obviously know nothing other than Libtard talking points. I'm being deliberately evasive because I want you to figure out for yourself where you're wrong. It ain't that hard but then we know that logic isn't your strong suit. Or else you just won't let yourself see it because it would prove your Libtard world view to be incorrect.

Again, see if you can figure out where and why the following statement is incorrect:

How so? If your competition raises its prices due to a tariffs, thereby making demand for your product increase, why would you lower the price?

 

[76steelers]

Or it could make US manufacturers bring back the jobs that they shipped to Mexico for cheaper wages and bigger profits.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Troglodyte]

You calling someone else pissy and insulting is pretty funny right there. You obviously know nothing other than Libtard talking points. I'm being deliberately evasive because I want you to figure out for yourself where you're wrong. It ain't that hard but then we know that logic isn't your strong suit. Or else you just won't let yourself see it because it would prove your Libtard world view to be incorrect.

Right, what am I to do search alt right websites that fly in the face of everything else? Your comment is the only thing I've read that mentioned cheaper prices associated with tariffs. Was Obama's tariff on Chinese tires a good idea? Did it increase or decrease the cost of tires? How will Trump's tariffs be different.

My guess is that you realize you didn't think things through, have no way of explaining what you wrote, and so you're taking a "you're stupid, just drop it" approach.

 

[Troglodyte]

Or it could make US manufacturers bring back the jobs that they shipped to Mexico for cheaper wages and bigger profits.

When people demand $25/hr to do a job any trained monkey could do, you either increase the cost of your product or ship the jobs to other countries. Forced to bring them back, well, it'll be good for robotics engineers.

 

[76steelers]

What are these jobs at? How do I sign up

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[oneforthebus]

Or it could make US manufacturers bring back the jobs that they shipped to Mexico for cheaper wages and bigger profits.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Steeler Nation mobile app

You could theoretically "make them" bring back the jobs, but several things happen. They can no longer compete on price with other manufacturers around the globe, losing business and costing jobs. They can simply decide not to be an "American company" anymore and move their operations to countries more favorable to their business. Oh yeah, that's right they already do that.

The way to get companies to operate and create jobs here is with carrots, not sticks. That's a big reason I wouldn't vote for Hillary or Bernie...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/economist-explains-9

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Right, what am I to do search alt right websites that fly in the face of everything else? Your comment is the only thing I've read that mentioned cheaper prices associated with tariffs. Was Obama's tariff on Chinese tires a good idea? Did it increase or decrease the cost of tires? How will Trump's tariffs be different.

My guess is that you realize you didn't think things through, have no way of explaining what you wrote, and so you're taking a "you're stupid, just drop it" approach.

Not at all you Libtard moron.
Tariffs on imported products make domestic products relatively cheaper. The price of the domestic product doesn't change because of a tariff.
If Coke and Pepsi are both $2.99 a six-pack and the price of Pepsi goes up to $3.49, then Coke becomes relatively cheaper even though its price hasn't changed.
A tariff raises the price of an imported good thereby making the domestic equivalent relatively less expensive or at least more comparable.
If you want to make revenue from a tariff you want a fairly low tariff so that people buy it. If you want a protectionist tariff, then you want a high tariff because making money for the government is less of a concern than protecting the domestic product.
You have two types of trade advantage; absolute advantage and comparative advantage. Absolute advantage is when another country has something that your country does not. Doesn't make sense to put much of a tariff on their stuff because you can't make it anyway. Comparative advantage is when another country simply has a cost and/or efficiency advantage in producing something over you. Such as China and Mexico with labor and production cost. They pay their workers a lot less because the standard of living is a lot less and they don't have near the taxes and environmental costs that we have. Now cheaper imported stuff is great to a point since I can buy a plastic laundry basket for $4.99 instead of $9.99 BUT when it puts our own plastic laundry basket makers out of work AND there is no comparable work for them to go to partly because that same foreign country has trade restrictions on OUR products coming in, then we have a problem. The ol' unlevel playing field that is leveled by putting a tariff on their stuff. Of course if you don't want us to put trade restrictions on your stuff coming in here then don't put trade restrictions on our stuff coming in to your place.

Happy to help.

 

[Steeltime]

Please do some research on oil prices in non-oil producing countries and even oil producing countries. You could use any Caribbean island nation, and Canada for your work.

You will be surprised that what you find is counter to your incorrect ECO 101 analyses.

For reasons that I cannot explain, you conflate currency manipulation with oil prices.

These are two completely different economic subjects, akin to comparing the price of avocados with the price of a BMW.

Specifically, currency manipulation involves a nation with a trade surplus buying the currency of its trading partners, which are running a trade deficit. Doing so artificially increases the value of the trade-deficit nation's currency and decreases the value of the currency of the trade-surplus nation.

That then keeps the relative cost of products lower in the trade-deficit nations and higher in the trade-surplus nations, since the tactic of buying up currency and artificially pumping up the currency value of the surplus-nation means that it takes just $5 to buy "x" product (an import), when in reality it should take $6.25. In turn, it takes 6 yuan to buy imports, when in reality it should take only 5 yuan.

https://ourfuture.org/20140622/what-is-currency-manipulation

Currency manipulation is simply a tool to fight market forces that otherwise would drive the value of the surplus-nation's currency up to the point that trade begins to level off - and is generally available where a nation has a centralized economy (check), a trade surplus (check) and leaders willing to screw with market forces to artificially inflate the value of its currency (check).

In other words, China.

China's softening economy over the past 12 months has definitely reduced its currency manipulation, as the nation is trying to revive its economy and pumping up its currency slows purchase of domestic-made products. That is well and good during economic expansion, and more troublesome during a recession.

Nonetheless, the evidence is palpable and basically beyond dispute - China is a notorious currency manipulation, and has been for a generation.

 

[DBS1970]

For reasons that I cannot explain, you conflate currency manipulation with oil prices.

These are two completely different economic subjects, akin to comparing the price of avocados with the price of a BMW.

Specifically, currency manipulation involves a nation with a trade surplus buying the currency of its trading partners, which are running a trade deficit. Doing so artificially increases the value of the trade-deficit nation's currency and decreases the value of the currency of the trade-surplus nation.

That then keeps the relative cost of products lower in the trade-deficit nations and higher in the trade-surplus nations, since the tactic of buying up currency and artificially pumping up the currency value of the surplus-nation means that it takes just $5 to buy "x" product (an import), when in reality it should take $6.25. In turn, it takes 6 yuan to buy imports, when in reality it should take only 5 yuan.

https://ourfuture.org/20140622/what-is-currency-manipulation

Currency manipulation is simply a tool to fight market forces that otherwise would drive the value of the surplus-nation's currency up to the point that trade begins to level off - and is generally available where a nation has a centralized economy (check), a trade surplus (check) and leaders willing to screw with market forces to artificially inflate the value of its currency (check).

In other words, China.

China's softening economy over the past 12 months has definitely reduced its currency manipulation, as the nation is trying to revive its economy and pumping up its currency slows purchase of domestic-made products. That is well and good during economic expansion, and more troublesome during a recession.

Nonetheless, the evidence is palpable and basically beyond dispute - China is a notorious currency manipulation, and has been for a generation.

Thanks for posting this and saving me the time and trouble of finding where I read this before and posting it.

This is what I was talking about Confluence. You are still my favorite Cannukistahni Snowback.

 

[Troglodyte]

Not at all you Libtard moron.
Tariffs on imported products make domestic products relatively cheaper. The price of the domestic product doesn't change because of a tariff.
If Coke and Pepsi are both $2.99 a six-pack and the price of Pepsi goes up to $3.49, then Coke becomes relatively cheaper even though its price hasn't changed.
A tariff raises the price of an imported good thereby making the domestic equivalent relatively less expensive or at least more comparable.
If you want to make revenue from a tariff you want a fairly low tariff so that people buy it. If you want a protectionist tariff, then you want a high tariff because making money for the government is less of a concern than protecting the domestic product.
You have two types of trade advantage; absolute advantage and comparative advantage. Absolute advantage is when another country has something that your country does not. Doesn't make sense to put much of a tariff on their stuff because you can't make it anyway. Comparative advantage is when another country simply has a cost and/or efficiency advantage in producing something over you. Such as China and Mexico with labor and production cost. They pay their workers a lot less because the standard of living is a lot less and they don't have near the taxes and environmental costs that we have. Now cheaper imported stuff is great to a point since I can buy a plastic laundry basket for $4.99 instead of $9.99 BUT when it puts our own plastic laundry basket makers out of work AND there is no comparable work for them to go to partly because that same foreign country has trade restrictions on OUR products coming in, then we have a problem. The ol' unlevel playing field that is leveled by putting a tariff on their stuff. Of course if you don't want us to put trade restrictions on your stuff coming in here then don't put trade restrictions on our stuff coming in to your place.

Happy to help.

So when demand for a product goes up because it's now relatively cheaper than its competition, it's price will remain unaffected indefinitely?

My friend just got $10k off on a Tahoe because it was leftover. If the demand for Tahoes increases because they are relatively cheaper compared to foreign made cars, you think he still gets that deal?

What went wrong with Obama's tariff on Chinese tires?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So when demand for a product goes up because it's now relatively cheaper than its competition, it's price will remain unaffected indefinitely?

It depends. The tariff itself doesn't affect the price of the domestic product.

My friend just got $10k off on a Tahoe because it was leftover. If the demand for Tahoes increases because they are relatively cheaper compared to foreign made cars, you think he still gets that deal?

Depends if there is a foreign-made acceptable substitute for a Tahoe. $10k off for being a leftover is kind of an apples and oranges situation though.

What went wrong with Obama's tariff on Chinese tires?

I suppose because tires are also made in other places besides China. Why do you hate union tire workers?