The tariff issue

[Troglodyte]

It depends. The tariff itself doesn't affect the price of the domestic product.

Depends if there is a foreign-made acceptable substitute for a Tahoe. $10k off for being a leftover is kind of an apples and oranges situation though.

I suppose because tires are also made in other places besides China. Why do you hate union tire workers?

The impact of the tariff does affect the price of the domestic product. It's a causal relationship. Indirect, but nonetheless, causal.

The $10k off is not apples and oranges at all. It's an example of price going down because of lack of demand. If dealers start selling Tahoes faster than they can get them in, people will be lucky to get them for sticker price.

The union tire workers cost US consumers $900k per job created.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The union tire workers cost US consumers $900k per job created.

Careful with that talk or they'll pull your Liberal Card.

 

[Troglodyte]

Careful with that talk or they'll pull your Liberal Card.

I'm as anti-union as they come.

 

[Coach]

I'm no economist by any stretch.... and correct me if I'm wrong which I'm sure many here will be glad to do.... but won't American retailers be forced to pass on the higher cost of imported goods to the consumer? If Walmart suddenly starts paying 20-30-40 percent more for the stuff they sell that it is brought in from other countries.... which is basically everything.... won't the prices then go up by at least the same percentage of the increases, if not maybe even a little more? I'm all for seeing stuffmade in this country again, but this isn't going to happen overnight. People living on $12 a hour can't afford to start paying 3 bucks for a roll of paper towels or 15 bucks for a box of garbage bags. If that were to happen,wouldn't that be really bad for the economy? Just sayin...

What does Mexico make? Even with a 20 percent tariff, Mexico can cut costs to sell their own products or USA consumers can pick other products.

 

[RollRed]

I'm as anti-union as they come.

I can understand why one would be against public sector unions.... the government making deals with tax payers money is completely different than say a trade union where carpenters and painters and electricians have some leverage. If all of you are from Pittsburgh, then it's probably safe to assume that many of you had fathers or other family members that made their living in the steel mills and the only reason they were able to earn a decent wage and live a comfortable life was because they were in a union that gave them leverage against a company that would have paid them a dollar an hour if they could.

 

[IndySteel]

What does Mexico make?

Pinatas.

 

[Troglodyte]

I can understand why one would be against public sector unions.... the government making deals with tax payers money is completely different than say a trade union where carpenters and painters and electricians have some leverage. If all of you are from Pittsburgh, then it's probably safe to assume that many of you had fathers or other family members that made their living in the steel mills and the only reason they were able to earn a decent wage and live a comfortable life was because they were in a union that gave them leverage against a company that would have paid them a dollar an hour if they could.

Unions had their time and place when towns were built around companies and people didn't have a choice of employer and were taken for granted. Now I think unions mostly just extort employers into paying unsustainable wages and/or benefits.

Whenever there is a labor dispute and the union demands get disclosed, I am always shocked. And then you hear stories about auto workers playing cards in the cafeteria all day or cable company service techs or bus drivers making $80k.

I have several close relatives that were either school teachers or administrators and I consider the retirement benefits they got absolutely ridiculous.

 

[ark steel]

The best thing about this idea is that the liberals have, apparently, figured out that if you raise taxes to increase a company's operating costs, their prices increase. In the past, they seemed to think company's just took it in the shorts.

 

[ark steel]

I can understand why one would be against public sector unions.... the government making deals with tax payers money is completely different than say a trade union where carpenters and painters and electricians have some leverage. If all of you are from Pittsburgh, then it's probably safe to assume that many of you had fathers or other family members that made their living in the steel mills and the only reason they were able to earn a decent wage and live a comfortable life was because they were in a union that gave them leverage against a company that would have paid them a dollar an hour if they could.

I think some unions still serve a good purpose when they (unless I misunderstand) provide actual training from apprentice-journeyman-master. I think of these with regards to plumbers, carpenters and electricians, mostly, but I am sure there are others.

Some unions, IMO, are useless to society. These are the Service Employees Union (doesn't take any training to learn how to clean a hotel room) and whatever union the grocery baggers belong to.

One issue I have with unions (seems to be a bigger issue with regards to the auto/airline industry) is that when one decides to go on strike because management isn't meeting their demands, unrelated unions who are not part of that negotiation tend to add extra threats of striking.

 

[Troglodyte]

The best thing about this idea is that the liberals have, apparently, figured out that if you raise taxes to increase a company's operating costs, their prices increase. In the past, they seemed to think company's just took it in the shorts.

When the tax is an operating cost. Taxing profits is not an operating cost.

 

[DBS1970]

When the tax is an operating cost. Taxing profits is not an operating cost.

Yes it is.

You have to show a certain percentage of profit to pay your shareholders and pay yourself.

Ask Burgundy what happened when the profits of his business dropped too low.

 

[Troglodyte]

Yes it is.

You have to show a certain percentage of profit to pay your shareholders and pay yourself.

Ask Burgundy what happened when the profits of his business dropped too low.

Show me how a tax on profits is included in a break even analysis. Total fixed cost of production divided by price per unit less variable cost to produce the product.

Burgandy's problem was he didn't hit or adequately surpass his break even number.

 

[IndySteel]

Show me how a tax on profits is included in a break even analysis. Total fixed cost of production divided by price per unit less variable cost to produce the product.

Burgandy's problem was he didn't hit or adequately surpass his break even number.

You've got to be kidding me. You never took Business 101 or basic Accounting? Taxes are included in any competent business's operating budget, balance sheet, statement of revenue and expense (P&L) etc... It's one of a company's biggest liabilities and is included in everything, especially considered as a cost before deciding on a selling price to reach the gross profit goal. Holy ****.

 

[Troglodyte]

You've got to be kidding me. You never took Business 101 or basic Accounting? Taxes are included in any competent business's operating budget, balance sheet, statement of revenue and expense (P&L) etc... It's one of a company's biggest liabilities and is included in everything, especially considered as a cost before deciding on a selling price to reach the gross profit goal. Holy ****.

No. on an income statement (P&L) income taxes (and interest expense) most certainly are not included when determining operating income.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Burgandy's problem was he didn't hit or adequately surpass his break even number.

Burgundy 's problem was that after 2008 too many people didn't have enough money to afford what it is that he did because the cost of his mandatory taxes and insurances were very high.

 

[IndySteel]

No. on an income statement (P&L) income taxes (and interest expense) most certainly are not included when determining operating income.

Bullshit. Right now my corporate rate is 35%. When Trump lowers it to 15% that increase in net income will most definitely influence my operations, from sales pricing to hiring to investing... What a company has to pay in taxes has a direct influence on operations. If you don't consider taxes when budgeting you are ******.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Bullshit. Right now my corporate rate is 35%. When Trump lowers it to 15% that increase in net income will most definitely influence my operations, from sales pricing to hiring to investing... What a company has to pay in taxes has a direct influence on operations. If you don't consider taxes when budgeting you are ******.

Don't forget the employer's share of FICA on employees' wages too. For me that was a big chunk of money every month that my competitors who work under the table don't have to pay.

 

[Troglodyte]

Bullshit. Right now my corporate rate is 35%. When Trump lowers it to 15% that increase in net income will most definitely influence my operations, from sales pricing to hiring to investing... What a company has to pay in taxes has a direct influence on operations. If you don't consider taxes when budgeting you are ******.

You first need to know your operating income before you ever know how much your income taxes will be. How could income tax be included? Holy ****!

 

[IndySteel]

You first need to know your operating income before you ever know how much your income taxes will be. How could income tax be included? Holy ****!

You estimate, dumbass. You know the approximate rate and pay quarterly estimates.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

You estimate, dumbass. You know the approximate rate and pay quarterly estimates.

Then at some point you have to write a real check for real money to the government and that money has to come from somewhere. I just had a small business but my total tax and insurance bite was around $7500 a month, which was FAR more than I made for myself. Meantime I'm in a county full of Democrat hypocrites who want everything the government does but don't want to pay a legit business that finances all that. /soapbox

In my former business a tariff would be analogous to the government going after everyone who works under the table and forced them to pay their taxes. Then they would have to price their work accordingly and wouldn't be any cheaper.

 

[oneforthebus]

You estimate, dumbass. You know the approximate rate and pay quarterly estimates.

And you estimate high, because if you're too low you get slapped with penalties and interest.

 

[Troglodyte]

You estimate, dumbass. You know the approximate rate and pay quarterly estimates.

You CANNOT include income tax as an expense in the calculation of, ahem, income tax. At what point do you stop?

The same goes for including income tax in determining price: If you can sell a unit for $5 at a cost of $4 and you decide to sell it for $5.35 to account for income tax, well now you have to raise price another $.12 to account for the 35% on the 35 cents, and so on and so on.

Meanwhile your competitor is letting supply and demand determine price (even if it means a price of $4.01) and watching you go out of business.

 

[ark steel]

when the tax is an operating cost. Taxing profits is not an operating cost.

wtf?!!!

 

[ark steel]

You CANNOT include income tax as an expense in the calculation of, ahem, income tax. At what point do you stop?

The same goes for including income tax in determining price: If you can sell a unit for $5 at a cost of $4 and you decide to sell it for $5.35 to account for income tax, well now you have to raise price another $.12 to account for the 35% on the 35 cents, and so on and so on.

Meanwhile your competitor is letting supply and demand determine price (even if it means a price of $4.01) and watching you go out of business.

So, my competitor sells it at $4.01, makes 1 cent on the product, THEN pays 35% of that 1 cent to the government. They are getting 65% of 1 cent as profit and are happy about it? Why was I selling it at $5 to start with? Wouldn't I have gone out of business, anyway if my competitor is willing to take a ton of risk for 65% of 1 cent? I can tell you that if that is my profit, I ain't in that business. Most people won't be, for long, I would guess.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

I swear, it's becoming an every day occurrence to log into the Politics board and see Trog get absolutely pummeled in these threads. This one has me cringing to watch. Bro never knows when to stop. Holy ****!