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This is on ownership and ultimately the fans who accept it

Our issue was that when our defense was so bad we drafted defense only or added "weapons" to the offense. We should have sprinkled in some O-lineman in the mix. As far as the QB is concerned, not sure how to fix that, we tried with Rudolph and that didn't work. As soon as Ben's elbow got hurt, we should have known he was done as the QB we came to know. This version of a QB is not a starting NFL caliber QB.
We tried with Rudolph? We were still running the same crap offense and he did fine until he knocked into tomorrow then rushed back because Duck sucked. He should have sat another week or so. I am not saying to pull Ben for Mason but if Ben goes down I think he may well be better than expected.
 
Tomlin can't fix this meltdown. I thought we would win 9 games this year. I doubt that now.
 
As I look back over the years I'm really feeling like Mike Tomlin is the problem. How can a man like Dick LeBeau start sucking at calling defenses all of a sudden? Bruce Arians couldn't call an offense to save his life? We've even heard that MT took over calling the defense last year in a game because of his dissatisfaction with Keith Butler. I posted this in another thread but this isn't a Matt Canada offense and this isn't how he calls games. I've been a fan of his since 2016 and being an OC over the years at various levels I can appreciate his work. This **** that is happening on Sunday's is either MT holding Canada back, or Big Ben not wanting too much change. Maybe it's a bit of both.
How can a man like Dick LeBeau start sucking at calling defenses all of a sudden? -- He didn't. The rules of the game changed. The physical style of his DBs & LBs punishing WRs was disallowed. The 2008 defense would not succeed today, heck it was undermined in 2010. Big run plugging NTs like Joel Steed and Casey Hampton are a thing of the past. Speed at LB and with DBs is more important.

Bruce Arians couldn't call an offense to save his life? Arians was getting Roethlisberger killed as no QB was hit and sacked more. It happened again in Indy with Luck and in Arizona with Palmer. Never forget we had the lowest scoring offense of any Super Bowl winning team ever in 2008. Ben's best years were under Haley, its unfortunate Haley's personality was too abrasive and it contributed to ending tenures in KC and Cleveland.

My problem with Tomlin is he has been too conservative and too much of a slow and steady wins the race type coach. When Doug Peterson was fired, why not interview him for OC position? Not saying he'd take it or it would be best fit, but he's experienced and you know he's been successful. The best assistant coaches in the 15 years under Tomlin have all been former head coaches. I was not thrilled with the hiring of Canada not for any reason against him, but this year is the final year for Ben and getting experienced coaches to assume a role might have been the better move.
 
Whatever. But I doubt Dan Rooney would have put up with what you saw today - or the end of last year - without some house cleaning at the highest levels.
Well he had and he did. 1983 had almost the precisely same ending as last year. The house cleaning was to let Noll override his decision on drafting Dan Marino.

From 85-88 it was a dysfunctional front office with his own brother Art Rooney Jr. and Chuck Noll in a power struggle. It finally ended when Dan had to fire Artie, but it still didn't solve the problem.

The offensive players nearly quit on Joe Walton in 1990 and when Chuck Noll had checked out in 1991- Dan Rooney still wanted him to stay.

Dan Rooney didn't hit the panic button after the 5-game losing streak that ended 1998.

Perspective: It was a lost football game. I don't like it either. But it's hyperbole to blame the fans for supporting what has been a successful formula that has stayed the course for over 50 years. And I agree things need to change in some aspects and what I do have a problem with is that after last season's struggles, they didn't go outside the box to fix the offensive issues. I believe 100% that there are coaches out there that could design a scheme to utilize the skill players more effectively. It just didn't seem like they really did due diligence in searching for one.
 
What formula? Just put up with **** play and **** coaching, claiming to have a standard or a Steeler way,. Only to make your team inept as the Detroit lions franchise?
 
How can a man like Dick LeBeau start sucking at calling defenses all of a sudden? -- He didn't. The rules of the game changed. The physical style of his DBs & LBs punishing WRs was disallowed. The 2008 defense would not succeed today, heck it was undermined in 2010. Big run plugging NTs like Joel Steed and Casey Hampton are a thing of the past. Speed at LB and with DBs is more important.

Bruce Arians couldn't call an offense to save his life? Arians was getting Roethlisberger killed as no QB was hit and sacked more. It happened again in Indy with Luck and in Arizona with Palmer. Never forget we had the lowest scoring offense of any Super Bowl winning team ever in 2008. Ben's best years were under Haley, its unfortunate Haley's personality was too abrasive and it contributed to ending tenures in KC and Cleveland.

My problem with Tomlin is he has been too conservative and too much of a slow and steady wins the race type coach. When Doug Peterson was fired, why not interview him for OC position? Not saying he'd take it or it would be best fit, but he's experienced and you know he's been successful. The best assistant coaches in the 15 years under Tomlin have all been former head coaches. I was not thrilled with the hiring of Canada not for any reason against him, but this year is the final year for Ben and getting experienced coaches to assume a role might have been the better move.
Interesting takes to mull over. Very good points.
 
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What formula? Just put up with **** play and **** coaching, claiming to have a standard or a Steeler way,. Only to make your team inept as the Detroit lions franchise?
What formula you ask? The one where there isn't knee-jerk reacting, calmness in the face of uncertainty, and sticking to principles...

Steelers since merger: 487-305-3 (61% winning), 31 playoff appearances, 36 playoff wins, 23 Division Championships, 6 Super Bowls - #1 in NFL teams in all categories.
Lions since merger: 325-465-5 (41% winning), 12 playoff appearances, 1 playoff win, 1 division championship. That's 26th, 27th, 32nd, 31st, 32nd, respectively.

If you are not able to discern a difference, let's get together and play poker. Or just hand over your cash. You're getting taken to the cleaners either way.
 
That's my biggest gripe with Art 2 as well.

His apparent unwavering commitment to Tomlin is hard to justify given the recent late season collapses and horrific playoff performance over the past decade.

It does somewhat imply an acceptance towards a level of performance that is not up to the standards of the franchise, but Art 2 isn't his dad.
The Rooneys are not going to fire their first Rooney Rule hire.
Second, they almost never fire assistant coaches either, they just don't renew or extend their contracts. Dick LeBeau, The Bruce, Todd Haley, and Randy Fictner say hi.
Cowher would fire assistants faster than I change socks but after a while you started to wonder who hired these jabronis in the first place. Kevin Gilbride and Ray Sherman say hi.
There will either be an agreement that Shades will retire or they will just let his contract run out but he will never ever be fired. I predict he retires after his first season without Ben. Shades coached his *** off in 2019 without Ben and we got 8-8. Remember Belicheat was 7-9 last year without Br*dy.
 
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What formula you ask? The one where there isn't knee-jerk reacting, calmness in the face of uncertainty, and sticking to principles...

If you are not able to discern a difference, let's get together and play poker. Or just hand over your cash. You're getting taken to the cleaners either way.
Knee jerk reacting? This is 10 years of bad coaching. Thank god for Colbert and Ben.

If you cant see the downward trend we are heading for over the next 3 years... perhaps you should buy some savings bonds.
 
Knee jerk reacting? This is 10 years of bad coaching. Thank god for Colbert and Ben.

If you cant see the downward trend we are heading for over the next 3 years... perhaps you should buy some savings bonds
I can see 100 wins over last decade is 4th best in NFL.

At what point did I make reference to Steelers future for next 3 years? Kinda makes your statement pointless.

Just admitted that your tail is tucked between legs after comparing Steelers to Lions
 
I can see 100 wins over last decade is 4th best in NFL.

At what point did I make reference to Steelers future for next 3 years? Kinda makes your statement pointless.

Just admitted that your tail is tucked between legs after comparing Steelers to Lions
oh hell no. Not at all. Im sad for what is coming. We see things differently. Ben and Colbert gone come January.
 
That's my biggest gripe with Art 2 as well.

His apparent unwavering commitment to Tomlin is hard to justify given the recent late season collapses and horrific playoff performance over the past decade.

It does somewhat imply an acceptance towards a level of performance that is not up to the standards of the franchise, but Art 2 isn't his dad.
Sometimes it's just time for a change. The message gets stale, the relationship gets tired, the coach loses his team. It happened to Andy Reid in Philly. Tomlin has always been referred to as a "players' coach," but let's face it...the guy is pushing 50 now, and he's no longer the same spirited young coach he was even a decade ago.

Tomlin had the 1000-yard stare going in the 4th quarter yesterday, and so did some of his players. There were even Bengals who said that they thought the Steelers quit. Not good.
 
Hopefully the next owner of this team is actually rich.
Because that worked out so well in Washington.

ARII isn’t his father. Then again—Dan Rooney is the greatest member in the history of the Steelers organization.

But he does carry the same characteristic of not putting himself at forefront. He doesn’t but in decisions and leaves the job to his football people. From the few parties I know—or rather knew as time has distanced—ARII has a lot more demanding side we’ll never see (just like Dan did.). Lest we forget, he’s run the team as President since 2002. Dan stepped aside to be Chairman of the Board m, and wasn’t even there for 2008/2010 Super Bowl runs. Although he was semi-present aka The Godfather Vito Corleone for Michael.

But he’s the boss, and it’s no coincidence that he’s not “loved” by his team the way Dan was….from the 2000s players. Dan wasn’t “loved” by the 70s players. He’s the business side so he can’t be as personable as he has to make tougher decisions m. It wasn’t until Dan and Art became Chairman of Board that they got closer to players

It wasn’t all sunshine and roses over Dan’s first decade either. From not asserting himself to draft Marino despite being the boss (rectified when Ben was on draft board in 04) , to the mess that was Artie vs. Noll, the nearly firing of Noll only to compromise & make coaching changes (forcing future Hall of Fame Coach Tony Dungy out indirectly), holding onto Dick Haley as pseudo-GM too long, and even wanting Noll to stay despite Noll knowing he was checked out. And just like would be to ARII, he had The Chief there to turn to as Godfather for years, it was far more difficult when when AJR declined in health and passed.

The Rooney’s have a methodology to them and it’s unlikely to change soon. In fact, most believe Daniel Martin Rooney will be next in line when ARII steps down.
 
some of you are acting like this is the Pirates organization

take a deep breath and step back from the ledge...on second thought take that leap
 
I can see 100 wins over last decade is 4th best in NFL.
Don't get hung up on 100 Wins, There aren't too many coaches who could have failed with the roster talent the Steelers have had over that decade.

Unless you're the Browns...they always hire **** coaches. The blind squirrel may have found their nut in Stefanski though. :LOL:
 
Hopefully the next owner of this team is actually rich.
Just to play devil’s advocate, Bob Nutting is rich and how is that working out for the Pirates?
 
Comments from a fan perspective.

The Steelers were my first "favorite" team because they were my dad's favorite team. I was fortunate as a child to visit Three Rivers for many games during the 1970's with my brother and dad. My room was decorated with Steelers stuff, everywhere. Just like a lot of you guys. I've been a committed fan ever since. Followed the team as close as possible while living all over this globe during my military years.

We've been blessed with several great eras of Steelers football. Yes, we've had some down years too along the way. But, for me, this feels different.

It started a couple years ago when Ben was lost early in the season and we had the Mason/Duck Show as a preview of our immediate future. It was ugly. It felt helpless. But there was hope, that Ben would make a triumphant return. And he did, sort of.

We all know that last year's 11-0 start was in spite of an offense that hovered between weak and pathetic. The defense carried that start and gave us what was likely a false sense of stability. Were they as good as their record? No. And that reality came crashing down hard. This season has looked like Week 18, 19 and 20 of last year.

Change Offensive Coordinator = same schemes, same short passing game, same no running game, same results.
Change Offensive Line Coach = same inability to run block, same inability to pass block, same results.
Change the Offensive Line = same inability to run block, same inability to pass block, same results.
Change Runningback = same inability to run the ball, same results.

Ben looks bad, and he looks old. Really old. I made the comment on Sunday that Ben looks like a senior citizen trying to navigate his way through the mosh pit at a Metallica concert. He really does. He can't move, his body is likely shot but more than that, he seems hesitant or confused on where to go with the ball. Now I can't see the downfield coverage on my TV screen because the views don't give us that so maybe everyone is covered. But if everyone is covered on nearly every play then that is another problem entirely with this offense and its schemes. If we are running 4-5 receivers into the pattern on 3rd down, then how can every receiver be so regularly covered so that a 20 year QB cannot find someone to throw it to?

I watch a lot of football. Too much football. Saturdays and Sundays, have for a long time. There are a lot of good coaches out there who are scheming up all kinds of passing offenses and running offenses and everything in between. The Steelers offense the past 2 years is as bad as any offense that I've seen, at any level. It's stale, it's repetitive, and it's predictable. I suggest the reason we can't run and we can't pass is far greater than the offensive line.

When I, as a fan and armchair coach, can look at the formation and regularly predict what play we are running based on pre-snap formation and personnel, then actual coaches can do it too. We are a bad football team right now with little hope of turning it around this season. With the injuries on defense cutting the legs out from under the dominant side of the ball, the future looks really dark for this season.

Didn't want to see Ben ride off into the sunset this way. Love him or hate him, and he's given us all reason for both, he has been our franchise QB for a long time. Personally, I think he hung around too long and it is showing. Probably should have exited with the elbow injury a couple years ago. It worked for 12 long ago and we didn't have to watch Bradshaw go through a similar rapid decline of skill and ability.

This is a tough watch.
 
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oh hell no. Not at all. Im sad for what is coming. We see things differently. Ben and Colbert gone come January.
So you see a 39-year-old QB in the twilight of his career retiring. ESPN level insight there, considering Drew Brees & Phillip Rivers called it a career last year after the decline was too much.

Kevin Colbert, doubtful he's going anywhere
Don't get hung up on 100 Wins, There aren't too many coaches who could have failed with the roster talent the Steelers have had over that decade.

Unless you're the Browns...they always hire **** coaches. The blind squirrel may have found their nut in Stefanski though. :LOL:
Don’t get hung up on 100 wins is kind of hypocrisy when you’re bent out of shape with 1 loss.
 
Don’t get hung up on 100 wins is kind of hypocrisy when you’re bent out of shape with 1 loss.
Except I'm not. Teams under Tomlin have disappointed fans for much more than one suck filled embarrassing game.
 
I think there are a lot of things Artwo D2 does that Dan wouldn’t have done, but Dan also wasn’t knee jerk reactive… he understood you built through drafting and developing guys better than most… housecleaning every season creates a Browns scenario where you are perpetually bad…


Yeah it sucks being 1-2 right now and playing poorly, but if 3/4ths of these young guys turn into what they could be the offense is fundamentally set for the next phase pretty well
 
I think there are a lot of things Artwo D2 does that Dan wouldn’t have done, but Dan also wasn’t knee jerk reactive… he understood you built through drafting and developing guys better than most… housecleaning every season creates a Browns scenario where you are perpetually bad…


Yeah it sucks being 1-2 right now and playing poorly, but if 3/4ths of these young guys turn into what they could be the offense is fundamentally set for the next phase pretty well
Was listening to Cook and Poni today and they made the point, a valid one I think, that the team grossly misjudged the OL this year and it's on Colbert as much as anybody. They thought Banner would be back (he's not), they thought DeCastro would be back (he's not), and they thought Chuks would be a serviceable tackle (he's not).
 
Was listening to Cook and Poni today and they made the point, a valid one I think, that the team grossly misjudged the OL this year and it's on Colbert as much as anybody. They thought Banner would be back (he's not), they thought DeCastro would be back (he's not), and they thought Chuks would be a serviceable tackle (he's not).
I don't know if they misjudged and instead went with the cheap option. The Steelers did this before when they drafted Mendenhall and Sweed before winning a Super Bowl with one of the worst offensive lines in the league. They fell in love with Harris early in the draft process and seemed to believe a top running back would fix the ground game even with a bad offensive line. Sure DeCastro seemed to surprise them and Turner seemed like a fair replacement. They also were firm on starting Green at center. They probably didn't expect Dotson was going to underperform and of course, as you said, thought Banner would be at RT. Having Chuks as a part of the starting line is just a terrible decision all around.
 
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