This should cause some convo

[Supersteeler]

"I must be right!!!" is the most common theme for how these repetitive arguments keep going year after year.

 

[Drink IRON City]

http://triblive.com/mobile/6418580-96/tomlin-coach-mike

Long, but good read. Thanks for posting it.


Saluter the nation

 

[Wingman]

Lets see, he is still not satisfied with his performance, me neither.
He does not count on security in his position, good for him he is being realistic.
He continually wants to improve, he should and has in his coaching, I still thing he has a ways to go.
Don't see the importance of relationships as it relates to his job. Did not seem to be the thing for Chuck and he won four with a team that stunk when he got it, and was close on many other seasons.
I thought the article was the usual fluff piece.
Big difference in experience between Chuck and Bill and now Mike. Mike is the least experienced when hired of all our recent head coaches and had to go further to develop than they did.

 

[Hines57]

I think this year with all the youth and roster turnover will show how good of a coach Tomlin is, or isn't. We may still be a year away from contending with the roster turnover but we shouldn't be too far away.

 

[insaniti]

You're using revisionist history and you have your timeline wrong. You're acting like Wiz went for years without trying to address the QB and that's not true.

Whisenhunt started Warner after just 5 games. That's how long he gave Matt Leinart who was obviously a much hyped prospect. Whiz gave Leinert 5 games and then Warner was the Cards starter until he retired 3 years later.

Warner's last year was 2009. Then for 2010 Whiz drafted Skelton and signed Anderson as a veteran. The 2010 draft was garbage for QBs. Skelton probably is the 2nd best QB in that draft behind Sam Bradford who hasn't done much himself. They also had Max Hall on the roster who was a good prospect at the time.

For 2011, Whiz did not stand pat. He traded for Kolb. Kolb got injured. They drafted Patrick Peterson 5th overall that year when they could have had Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder. Good move. Dalton and Kaepernick were both off the board by Arizona's 2nd round pick, so they would have had to trade up for either of them.

2012 you go with Kolb again. You traded for him, you have to give him his chance. He got injured again. It's easy looking back to say he should have drafted a QB but going into 2012 they still thought Kolb was their guy. At that time Kolb was a better prospect than all the guys you listed except Weeden. Weeden went in the 1st round and has been a bust. All the other guys you listed went later in the draft than Kolb did. And Whiz did draft a QB in 2012, Ryan Lindley in the 6th that year.


Flacco 2007 - this was Whiz's first year and he had Kurt Warner. Drafting Flacco probably means no SB for Arizona

Whiz was actively searching for his next QB after Warner left. It's hard to replace a franchise QB.

Aaron Rodgers was injured last year and without him GB went 3-5-1. If Rodgers blows out his ACL tomorrow, what are GB's prospects for this season? Not great. Would that make Mike McCarthy a bad coach all of a sudden because he didn't have a great QB lined up to take over for Rodgers?

In hindsight, Whiz was wrong on Kolb. But at that time it was a good trade. That doesn't make him a bad coach. He completely transformed a loser franchise into a Super Bowl team.

I'm not saying WHiz is the best coach in the league but he's proven a lot more than several guys ahead of him on that list.

It's not revisionist or changing of any timelines. It's my opinion. The problem with your whole argument is you feel that Kolb was a good trade. I do not, I did not at the time either. I also feel that Whiz would have HAD to have known that Warner wasn't going to play forever, and he had not plan in place for WHEN Warner retired. Also, you are correct, he started Warner after 5 games, but continued to swap them back and fourth like he was coaching in college. He'd pull Leinart when they got close to the goalline, neither QB could get into any type of rhythm. It was horrible coaching that put them in that situation to begin with. And winning the division at 9-7 is hardly impressive... You can put Whiz up on your wish list, and say he's better than their rank, and whatever else you want to claim about him. I think he's Norv Turner 2.0. Great coordinator, HORRIBLE head coach.

 

[Vader]

To be fair to Whiz he inherited Leinart and I'm sure he was pressured to play him. They paid him $51 MILLION and if people remember he was the last one to sign that year. Also people on here were upset when the Steelers @ 8-8 last year didn't make the playoffs. IF they had and made the SB how many on here would say that Tomlin did a horrible coaching job? Hell people think Tomlin did a good job because they went 6-2 down the stretch but of course Whiz did a horrible job at 9-7 and getting to the SB....

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

It's not revisionist or changing of any timelines. It's my opinion. The problem with your whole argument is you feel that Kolb was a good trade. I do not, I did not at the time either. I also feel that Whiz would have HAD to have known that Warner wasn't going to play forever, and he had not plan in place for WHEN Warner retired. Also, you are correct, he started Warner after 5 games, but continued to swap them back and fourth like he was coaching in college. He'd pull Leinart when they got close to the goalline, neither QB could get into any type of rhythm. It was horrible coaching that put them in that situation to begin with. And winning the division at 9-7 is hardly impressive... You can put Whiz up on your wish list, and say he's better than their rank, and whatever else you want to claim about him. I think he's Norv Turner 2.0. Great coordinator, HORRIBLE head coach.

You are criticizing WHiz for not having a QB waiting to take over for Warner and then you are criticizing him for trying to do just that. Kolb was not a great option. I pointed out that there was no good option. If they had drafted Gabbert instead of Patrick Peterson that would be a lot worse than the Kolb trade.

Whiz was forced to play Leinert. You have to remember he was a star and part of why the Cards drafted him is because they had trouble selling tickets. The Cards also had the reputation of being cheap so they would not have wanted Leinert on the bench. Years ago, the Cards benched Boomer Esiason at the end of the season when he would have collected a bonus if he played in one more game. That's the organization Whiz got to a Super Bowl.

When i see what he did in Arizona, i see a guy who got the most out of his available talent.

 

[insaniti]

You are criticizing WHiz for not having a QB waiting to take over for Warner and then you are criticizing him for trying to do just that. Kolb was not a great option. I pointed out that there was no good option. If they had drafted Gabbert instead of Patrick Peterson that would be a lot worse than the Kolb trade.

Whiz was forced to play Leinert. You have to remember he was a star and part of why the Cards drafted him is because they had trouble selling tickets. The Cards also had the reputation of being cheap so they would not have wanted Leinert on the bench. Years ago, the Cards benched Boomer Esiason at the end of the season when he would have collected a bonus if he played in one more game. That's the organization Whiz got to a Super Bowl.

When i see what he did in Arizona, i see a guy who got the most out of his available talent.

And now that he has his second chance to be a head coach you'll see something completely different. There were plenty of options, they may not have been Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, or etc... but there certainly was better than Jon Skelton. You also completely ignored Whiz retarded decision to play Warner AND Leinart like he was in a college setting. That "cheap" franchise you refer to gave Larry Fitzgerald a QB's contract, 7 years $115m! They are paying Carson Palmer $9m in base salary this season. And they ate Levi Browns entire contract with the trade to us last season, a cost of $6.5m. They might have been cheap when Boomer was still playing, but that wasn't the case when Whiz was there.

Vader the difference between taking the Cards to a 9-7 record and a Super Bowl birth and the Steelers going 8-8 last year is huge! For one injuries didn't cause the Cards to go 9-7. Another, 8-8 for the Steelers almost got them a WILD CARD spot, the Cards WON THEIR DIVISION with 9-7. They had NO COMPETITION in their division.

 

[bermudasteel]

To be fair to Whiz he inherited Leinart and I'm sure he was pressured to play him. They paid him $51 MILLION and if people remember he was the last one to sign that year. Also people on here were upset when the Steelers @ 8-8 last year didn't make the playoffs. IF they had and made the SB how many on here would say that Tomlin did a horrible coaching job? Hell people think Tomlin did a good job because they went 6-2 down the stretch but of course Whiz did a horrible job at 9-7 and getting to the SB....

Lest ye forget...

We were FOUR INCHES and TWO FG's away from a secured playoff spot last season...EVEN AFTER the 0-4 start...

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Lest ye forget...

We were FOUR INCHES and TWO FG's , AND A BLANTANT MISSED PENALTY away from a secured playoff spot last season...EVEN AFTER the 0-4 start...

Corrected for accuracy...

 

[Vader]

Vader the difference between taking the Cards to a 9-7 record and a Super Bowl birth and the Steelers going 8-8 last year is huge! For one injuries didn't cause the Cards to go 9-7. Another, 8-8 for the Steelers almost got them a WILD CARD spot, the Cards WON THEIR DIVISION with 9-7. They had NO COMPETITION in their division.

What happened to the "you play your schedule" argument? The Steelers were in a horrible conference for years. They got two expansion teams in the Jags and clowns. They still have 2 gimmie games every year with the clowns. Fact is that AZ won their games and still had to play a wild card game. They won MORE games than the Steelers did last year. Plus they had several injuries of their own including Boldin who was carted off the field and missed 2 games. All teams have injuries.

So the bottom line is that AZ won their division with a 9-7 record by beating the teams on the schedule. The Steelers lost their division and a chance at the playoffs by going 8-8 in a division where ONE team made the playoffs and was promptly bounced by 17 points AT HOME. Yet Tomlin did a great coaching job but Whiz sucked... wow.

Lest ye forget...

We were FOUR INCHES and TWO FG's away from a secured playoff spot last season...EVEN AFTER the 0-4 start...

Who cares? Lots of games are by inches. They were a few inches away from being 7-9 as well. Still doesn't make Tomlin a great coach for going 8-8 while making Whiz suck at 9-7 and making a SB. I'm sure if the roles were reversed people would be laughing at the idea of a 9-7 Tomlin SB team as bad coaching while an 8-8 Whiz team not even making the playoffs was great coaching. It's laughable.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

ah the bait,, the bait,,

 

[insaniti]

What happened to the "you play your schedule" argument? The Steelers were in a horrible conference for years. They got two expansion teams in the Jags and clowns. They still have 2 gimmie games every year with the clowns. Fact is that AZ won their games and still had to play a wild card game. They won MORE games than the Steelers did last year. Plus they had several injuries of their own including Boldin who was carted off the field and missed 2 games. All teams have injuries.

So the bottom line is that AZ won their division with a 9-7 record by beating the teams on the schedule. The Steelers lost their division and a chance at the playoffs by going 8-8 in a division where ONE team made the playoffs and was promptly bounced by 17 points AT HOME. Yet Tomlin did a great coaching job but Whiz sucked... wow.

you are the only one comparing the coaching jobs, I simply compared the two situations. I don't think Whiz is a good head coach, he makes bad personal moves, bad in game moves... he brought everyone he could over to Arizona to make it just like Pittsburgh and all of those players/coaches failed in Arizona. They had a solid roster when he showed up (oh wait, that's only for Tomlin)... Warner saved his ***, the only reason he even started Warner in game SIX of the 07 season was because Leinart went out with a season ending injury. They started the season 7-3, finished 2-4. 3 of the last four losses were by 20 or more points. That year they didn't just have two gimme games against one team, they had six! The niners finished 7-9, seahawks 4-12, and rams 2-14. The following year the division didn't get any better, the niners were 8-8. seahawks 5-11, and the rams 1-15. In 2010, the entire division finished below .500. He wasn't ever in a strong division with two playoff teams. He couldn't put together a defense or at least a defensive staff that could help out his offense.

People want to blame the injury to Kolb as a reason that experiment failed, but they forget that Kolb looked like **** before he even got hurt. I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed with anything that Whiz did in Arizona. I don't expect him to succeed in Tenn either. He's just not a good head coach.

 

[Vader]

you are the only one comparing the coaching jobs, I simply compared the two situations. I don't think Whiz is a good head coach, he makes bad personal moves, bad in game moves... he brought everyone he could over to Arizona to make it just like Pittsburgh and all of those players/coaches failed in Arizona. They had a solid roster when he showed up (oh wait, that's only for Tomlin)... Warner saved his ***, the only reason he even started Warner in game SIX of the 07 season was because Leinart went out with a season ending injury. They started the season 7-3, finished 2-4. 3 of the last four losses were by 20 or more points. That year they didn't just have two gimme games against one team, they had six! The niners finished 7-9, seahawks 4-12, and rams 2-14. The following year the division didn't get any better, the niners were 8-8. seahawks 5-11, and the rams 1-15. In 2010, the entire division finished below .500. He wasn't ever in a strong division with two playoff teams. He couldn't put together a defense or at least a defensive staff that could help out his offense.

People want to blame the injury to Kolb as a reason that experiment failed, but they forget that Kolb looked like **** before he even got hurt. I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed with anything that Whiz did in Arizona. I don't expect him to succeed in Tenn either. He's just not a good head coach.

I think Tomlin makes a ton of mistakes as well. But he has a HOF DC and a franchise QB. Didn't Tomlin go for a 2 point conversion from the 12 yard line? Didn't he start Adams at LT for 4 games last year and cause Ben to get hammered? Didn't he "run the wheels off" of his best RB? Didn't he rain down hell in December? Didn't he let Lewis walk away without even offering him a contract? Isn't he the one that said Hood had NO holes? Isn't he the one who has presided over the talent that lead to the defense being the worst in yardage since Noll's last year? Isn't he the guy that has had the easiest schedule last year and in 2007 than any Steeler team in 40 years. PFR has them at a -2.5 for last year and 07. The year the Cardinals lost the SB their SOS was -1.9. Isn't he the coach that allowed 28 points in ONE quarter to the pats*? Isn't he the coach that let a warm weather team like the Dolphins come into Heinz field and put up over 350 yards of offense and 34 points in a blizzard with the playoffs on the line?

Also the Steelers lost 17 points to Chicago, 24 points to NE and 10 points to the bungles. They are losing by 17 points to the Vikings and score 10 points in the 4th to get it to within 7. They got hammered this year.

My issue is only that blasting Whiz for getting his team to the SB is ridiculous while at the same time saying Tomlin did a good job this year. It's just ridiculous. Reverse roles and you and everybody else would be saying the exact opposite.

 

[AggieSteel]

I think Tomlin makes a ton of mistakes as well. But he has a HOF DC and a franchise QB. Didn't Tomlin go for a 2 point conversion from the 12 yard line? Didn't he start Adams at LT for 4 games last year and cause Ben to get hammered? Didn't he "run the wheels off" of his best RB? Didn't he rain down hell in December? Didn't he let Lewis walk away without even offering him a contract? Isn't he the one that said Hood had NO holes? Isn't he the one who has presided over the talent that lead to the defense being the worst in yardage since Noll's last year? Isn't he the guy that has had the easiest schedule last year and in 2007 than any Steeler team in 40 years. PFR has them at a -2.5 for last year and 07. The year the Cardinals lost the SB their SOS was -1.9. Isn't he the coach that allowed 28 points in ONE quarter to the pats*? Isn't he the coach that let a warm weather team like the Dolphins come into Heinz field and put up over 350 yards of offense and 34 points in a blizzard with the playoffs on the line?

Also the Steelers lost 17 points to Chicago, 24 points to NE and 10 points to the bungles. They are losing by 17 points to the Vikings and score 10 points in the 4th to get it to within 7. They got hammered this year.

My issue is only that blasting Whiz for getting his team to the SB is ridiculous while at the same time saying Tomlin did a good job this year. It's just ridiculous. Reverse roles and you and everybody else would be saying the exact opposite.

Don't forget the consistent overlooking of bad teams leading to inexcusable losses or, at best, flat efforts leading to W's by scores of something resembling 13-9

 

[topseed]

Well, if some guy named Elliot Harrison posted that Tomlin is the ninth best coach in the league, it MUST be true.