Time to offer Munch the HC job
- Thread starter MT~Forged
- Start date
Listen, we all know Canada sucks and the media wants to point their fingers at him cause well, they surely don't want to point their fingers at Tomlin.
But it's time to for a change at the head coaching position. Tomlin has become Marvin Lewis, actually in some ways, worse. Tomlin has wasted so much talent that it's become disgusting to think about. He has his good qualities but it has run it's course. Tomlin's best years were his first 5 years... that should tell you everything. He had a bunch of vets, Lebeau, and Arians. The more control Tomlin has taken, the worse the team has become. The culture sucks, players love to play for Tomlin cause they can say and do as they please, don't need to back any of it up and have a best buddy as head coach.
Having a .500 record each year with sometimes making the playoffs and getting our ***** kicked isn't anything to be celebrated but here we are, it's now celebrated in Pittsburgh and by media outlets everywhere. No media will dare talk negatively about the poster child of being average. It needs to end. I'm sure there are reasons behind why Tomlin is never called out, some of you may be able to guess why but he's been given plenty of years, it's ok to say you want better at this point.
Pittsburgh is no longer the City of Champions, it's the City of being Average. If it takes a few years of being terrible to be SB contenders again then so be it. Stop settling for this garbage that we have to watch every week now. The 2017 loss to the Jaguars was the last straw for me but hopefully everyone wakes up and demands better results now.
But it's time to for a change at the head coaching position. Tomlin has become Marvin Lewis, actually in some ways, worse. Tomlin has wasted so much talent that it's become disgusting to think about. He has his good qualities but it has run it's course. Tomlin's best years were his first 5 years... that should tell you everything. He had a bunch of vets, Lebeau, and Arians. The more control Tomlin has taken, the worse the team has become. The culture sucks, players love to play for Tomlin cause they can say and do as they please, don't need to back any of it up and have a best buddy as head coach.
Having a .500 record each year with sometimes making the playoffs and getting our ***** kicked isn't anything to be celebrated but here we are, it's now celebrated in Pittsburgh and by media outlets everywhere. No media will dare talk negatively about the poster child of being average. It needs to end. I'm sure there are reasons behind why Tomlin is never called out, some of you may be able to guess why but he's been given plenty of years, it's ok to say you want better at this point.
Pittsburgh is no longer the City of Champions, it's the City of being Average. If it takes a few years of being terrible to be SB contenders again then so be it. Stop settling for this garbage that we have to watch every week now. The 2017 loss to the Jaguars was the last straw for me but hopefully everyone wakes up and demands better results now.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
- Messages
- 136
- Reaction score
- 100
- Points
- 43
The fact that Canada still hasn't been fired, says no major changes are coming. Lip service as usual. But, why fire Canada, when Tomlin has said he's got his hands on the offense along with the defensive play calling? Rooney isn't even running this organization. Tomlin is. And he's destroyed everything that this organization was founded on.
Sure it is, but we all know deuce won't do it. Tomlin leaves when he wants to, and the only hope is that CBS or Fox is currently in his ear offering a boatload of cash for his perceived expert analysis. Until then, we all have a choice on how we spend 3-4 hours each Sunday during football season.
The Tomlin Way:
Assistant coaches are people he knows or worked with previously. Always.
Coordinators are internal promotions of assistant coaches, the ones he knows or worked with previously. Always.
Obviously.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 15,872
- Reaction score
- 14,253
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Lebanon, OH (Near Kings Island)
I don't love him but I also think he is at least twice as competent as Canada is. Not that that says much. WE can't win consistently despite Canada. I believe we can win consistently with Austin if we get even half way reasonable production from the offense. The defense is easier to fix.
What would take a real pair of balls from ARll would be a trade. As most say they won’t fire him. Sean Payton and a 3rd rounder got traded for a first and second. Now that would earn me some respect. Win,Win.
I don’t dislike Tomlin. I think all coaches get stale. Need new challenges/surroundings. Chuck&Bill went through the same thing. I actually think a year in the tv booth or away from the game could make you a much better coach after a long tenure with the same team.
I want more more, not that you are wrong. I want to compete for championships not just have winning records. Not saying you only want that, I am saying I believe Austin isn't good enough to be passable even with a competent OC. I want two coordinators who can scheme their way to solid halftime adjustments even if it doesn't result in a win. In the process be competitive against the upper echelon type teams. I believe Tomlin can't and won't go after high profile candidates. For that matter neither will Rooney.
I don't see this team achieving anything without this process. This ho hum approach of theirs is stale and outdated.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 15,872
- Reaction score
- 14,253
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Lebanon, OH (Near Kings Island)
I want more as well but I don't think you can change both midseason. I think you have to change Canada even if it means taking away his crayons and making him a glorified cheerleader instead of outright firing him. An adult has to call the plays. They have to stop telegraphing what's coming.
Hard to debate this isn't the biggest issue by far it is. That is the only in season change they need to talk about, otherwise don't waste our time.
Here is why I disagree. The defense has a ton of talented, highly-paid veterans in the starting line-up. Watt, Highsmith, Fitzpatrick, missing Cam of course. That is a combined 7 (?) All-Pro selections.
How many All-Pros does the offense have? Yeah, none. Talent-wise, the defense >>>>>>>>>>>>> offense.
And yet the defense gets reamed on the FIRST TWO DRIVES of the game yesterday, giving up a zillion yards and 10 points to a 3rd string OL and rookie QB. Yes, Matt Canada is beyond terrible. Agreed. But Austin sure as hell is not making me feel like the defense is the '85 Bears. More like the 1977 Bad News Bears.
I couldn’t help but notice you’ve mentioned several times (as most have) getting rid of Canada yesterday and today. Without mentioning Tomlin in the same way. Which of course is fine that’s your opinion. Here’s a question for you then.
At what point does Mike be held accountable in your way of thinking? He hired Canada,he retained him,he allows this amateur,god awful offensive scheme to continue.
And let’s be real. The offense scheme was dummied down when Mason and the duck took over after the injury. Before Canada. I am assuming under the HC supervision. And continued after it was seen Ben’s arm was deteriorating. As was the Line.
I think we try and forget the amount of absolutely hideous Offensive production we have put on the field the last 3+ years. A personal hell for a Steeler fan would be having to watch every first half offensive drive that last 3 years. All in a row.
As I said yesterday. Tomlin calls a timeout. Him and Canada go over what they want to do on the 4th and one. Obviously the HC signs off on the play and can change it to whatever he sees fit. Yet it’s “Fire Canada!”
I was already screaming as they broke huddle......playaction under center you idiots,not shotgun! As I am sure most knowledgeable Steeler fans were. It’s time for some fresh air. They both have to go.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 15,872
- Reaction score
- 14,253
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Lebanon, OH (Near Kings Island)
I have answered this. I like Tomlin, I realize he isn't without his faults, no one is. Canada is my point of breaking. If he Isn't replaced as the play caller at a bare minimum by the bye week I will be on board with Tomlin being in the hot seat. I also am realistic that even then he won't be replaced so I am not going to lose my head beating it against a brick wall. You may or may not know my belief we have actually overachieved under Tomlin leading to a false sense of how talented the team has actually been. His refusal to never give up on a season is at once his biggest strength and weakness as it has lead to lower picks and less chance to replenish that talent. Not firing Canada or demoting him at the least will be a bridge to far.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 437
- Points
- 63
Most of us agree that HCMT "is" the common denominator, and thus the "root" of the problems we have.
The problem with THIS is we ALL also agree that its unlikely/doubtful Deuce fires HCMT. Sooooo, what is a reasonable mid-season stop-gap solution?
None of the reasonable/mid-season solutions are going to FIX what's wrong BUT they can mitigate the negative a bit.
IMO, we are screwed either way. Here's why:
We have an offense that has been "repetitively practicing, repetitive offensive plays, repetitively" for how long? 2 years plus?
What NEW plays have they even been exposed to? How can we call plays that aren't/haven't been in our playbook for 2+ years without errors?
Without trying to "install" a new offense, mid-season, what CAN anyone/playcaller do?
Certainly, we can take the plays we have and "change" the "reads" to the ones we see on tape that perhaps "should be" #1, #2, etc. BUT that is NOT enough.
We can "add" new plays every week till we have some other options by the end of the season? Again, we can't just start running a different offensive scheme mid-season, imo.
This is how we are screwed, now that we are in season and why we can only mitigate the repetition we have built.
Still, we can "start" by hiring a "run-game coordinator/Ol coach" (Munch/Stoutland designated as Asst HC as well), PLUS hiring an ex-QB/film junkie as a "passing game coordinator" to cull through Niners/Eagles and other successful passing teams games (not against us, as all teams have wide-open receivers every play) and "add Plays" to our playbook/practice routine.
After the season, we can look at candidates for OC, but for now, we just have to take the play-calling away and give it to "a collective" of personnel, imo. because our OL coach and QB coach are obviously equally flawed. We need to hire the above personnel post haste, imo.
The problem with THIS is we ALL also agree that its unlikely/doubtful Deuce fires HCMT. Sooooo, what is a reasonable mid-season stop-gap solution?
None of the reasonable/mid-season solutions are going to FIX what's wrong BUT they can mitigate the negative a bit.
IMO, we are screwed either way. Here's why:
We have an offense that has been "repetitively practicing, repetitive offensive plays, repetitively" for how long? 2 years plus?
What NEW plays have they even been exposed to? How can we call plays that aren't/haven't been in our playbook for 2+ years without errors?
Without trying to "install" a new offense, mid-season, what CAN anyone/playcaller do?
Certainly, we can take the plays we have and "change" the "reads" to the ones we see on tape that perhaps "should be" #1, #2, etc. BUT that is NOT enough.
We can "add" new plays every week till we have some other options by the end of the season? Again, we can't just start running a different offensive scheme mid-season, imo.
This is how we are screwed, now that we are in season and why we can only mitigate the repetition we have built.
Still, we can "start" by hiring a "run-game coordinator/Ol coach" (Munch/Stoutland designated as Asst HC as well), PLUS hiring an ex-QB/film junkie as a "passing game coordinator" to cull through Niners/Eagles and other successful passing teams games (not against us, as all teams have wide-open receivers every play) and "add Plays" to our playbook/practice routine.
After the season, we can look at candidates for OC, but for now, we just have to take the play-calling away and give it to "a collective" of personnel, imo. because our OL coach and QB coach are obviously equally flawed. We need to hire the above personnel post haste, imo.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 16,548
- Reaction score
- 19,659
- Points
- 113
The Steelers and Tomlin need energized. I don't care if someone hires him in 30 seconds and he never has a losing season somewhere else. The results show he doesn't win playoff games anymore in Pittsburgh and that will likely extend another year. There are a lot of great football minds out there and none of them are in Pittsburgh right now. The Steelers should be ripe with brilliant young coaches getting coordinator and head coaching jobs around in league. Instead, as you said, we are stuck with a Marvin Lewis/Jeff Fisher type where mediocrity has become the new standard. If Tomlin wasn't leading the way and actually ready to make some bold moves I'd feel different. However, his offensive philosophy and unwillingness to hire a quality staff has this team stuck in neutral.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2014
- Messages
- 10,335
- Reaction score
- 6,020
- Points
- 113
Not sure why everyone is blaming Austin for the defense. We have seen the same stuff from various coordinators under Tomlin. Tomlin is a defensive "guru" and this soft tampa 2 is Tomlins. Austin may stink as a DC, but Tomlin is the one controlling it. Also whose decision is it to not play JPJ? I doubt Austin has that power.
As for HC I would not want the Chargers OC they seem to not maximize their talent either.
Wow, good for you he did not make it to Pittsburgh for an interview. Know why? He was $50 short in getting his airline ticket because some dude failed to pay him the $50 he was counting on.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 21,442
- Reaction score
- 24,109
- Points
- 113
He would have to fire himself on offense and defense. This is his baby any way you want to slice it.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 33,361
- Reaction score
- 35,945
- Points
- 113
- Location
- between $2 short & ten buck two
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
GREAT post Steelmann and thanks for all the great ones along the way.
Most here know it is Coach Tomlin to blame. Most also know Coach Tomlin is going no where.
Some scream O’camada due to the Talking Heads and no mention of Coach Tomlin being at fault, while others think the only possibility of anything happening it that O’Canada could actually be fired in season.
Myself, I realize and for quite sometime, that the core problem (team wise) is Coach Tomlin. Add in franchise wise and you have to add Art 2 to the mix as well. I guarantee tee you Art 2 is going no where and it doesn’t natter what the other share-holder owners think or want. Rooney has control of the team for a reason.
As fans, all we can do is bitchs and moan, express our ways to fix things and last of all, quit…….. Just quit being a fan.
I’m not on the quilting edge yet, but I sure am glad I didn’t buy the NFL Ticket this year.
Salute the nation
Here is the thing… supposedly Denver might have an issue between wilson and Payton so possibly in the off-season they might be willing to straight up trade him for Tomlin…
Won’t really happen, but it should be explored…
What we need from a head coach is a qb whisperer… a guy who can take a good guy and make him great or an average guy and make him good… payton is one such guy… and younger coaches are a crap shoot… get payton and let him coach 7 or 8 years then retire … and start looking for a guy to groom to replace him…
Won’t really happen, but it should be explored…
What we need from a head coach is a qb whisperer… a guy who can take a good guy and make him great or an average guy and make him good… payton is one such guy… and younger coaches are a crap shoot… get payton and let him coach 7 or 8 years then retire … and start looking for a guy to groom to replace him…
In a league where you basically need to average 24 points per game to be the champion the fact that the last OC to be hired directly as a HC was Ken Whisenhunt......tells you everything you need to know about this organization.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 5,510
- Reaction score
- 6,035
- Points
- 113
Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive genius, why would it need to be fixed? This is what happens when you hire a “flash in the pan”.
We are in the same boat as several years ago. I hoped Tomlin would not be extended. Then Rooney breaks out a fresh 3 year extension paying Tomlin top 5 money. Top 5 money for this kind of coach.
If Tomlin were to move to another team can you name anyone who would WANT to be on his staff?
If Tomlin were to move to another team can you name anyone who would WANT to be on his staff?
The Chargers OC is new I believe. Are you basing your opinion on past seasons or the present?