Don't think there is a whole lot you can do to stop these things. How do you stop some loser living in his parents basement when he decides to carry out his plan? Most of these guys have little or no criminal history so a background check wouldn't have stopped them from getting the guns they end up using. I say we go with Chris Rock's idea... make bullets $500 a piece.
Today in mass shootings
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You're right:
A lot more people are killed by gang violence than mass shootings. Sometimes they are one in the same thing.
Despite that:
A lot more media coverage of random mass shootings than gang violence.
It's like when a young pretty upper-middle class suburban white woman goes missing. It's immediately a national news story. But when an inner-city black woman goes missing, it takes the local news three days before they report on it. Why?
Obama and the media shouldn't kid themselves about what is routine.
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Actually it only banned post 1986 full auto weapons. You go to your gun dealer fill out form 4 pay 200 bucks to the ATF, get fingerprinted , signed off by your local police chief and you're good to go.
Good luck finding a full auto pre 86 weapon that doesn't require you sell your home so you can own it though.l
Thanks to my job and it's close association with DOD I have been lucky enough to fire an mg 42, maxim, Vietnam era m16(full rock&roll no burst b.s.) and a Russian ak. Too bad I'll never own them.
Good one. Funny Republicans have no problem supporting legislation that restricts healthcare to women. They also have no problem with legislation that affects people's access to voting booths through their ridiculous voter identification laws designed to stop a problem that doesn't even really exist. But when someone suggest we should restrict people's access to devices that make going on mass killing sprees much easier, they claim that the people's rights are being infringed upon. Gotta love'em...Maybe start with this, and work out further steps later....
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Maybe start with this, and work out further steps later....
Only minor children need permission from their parents to get an abortion. Minors are not legally allowed to buy guns at all. If anyone wants to protest at gun shops they have the same constitutional right to do so that abortion protesters have. No one is stopping them. Informed consent is something that is required for most medical procedures. The government hasn't shut down any abortion clinics, the problem is so few medical professionals are really interested in being providers of death and so few citizens are willing to pay for it. Some 300 or so people have died from mass shootings annually these last few years. 1.2 million unborn children die annually from abortions. I don't think access to abortion is really an issue.
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No the answer is to respect the right of the individual and do away with "Gun Free Zones". See the Israeli response to the takeover of the school at Kibutz Maalot in the 1970s.
I think Sarge was being sarcastic.
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oneforthebus, here are a few suggestions that seem pretty reasonable to me:
Oregon shooting: eight ideas to help stop gun violence
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ays-to-stop-gun-massacres-in-the-us?CMP=fb_gu
As the country mourns the lives lost, the gun control questions take center stage again. What gun control proposals could realistically be passed in the United States today, what is stopping them being enacted into law, and what effect it would have on gun violence if they were to be approved? Here are eight possibilities.
Oregon shooting: eight ideas to help stop gun violence
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ays-to-stop-gun-massacres-in-the-us?CMP=fb_gu
As the country mourns the lives lost, the gun control questions take center stage again. What gun control proposals could realistically be passed in the United States today, what is stopping them being enacted into law, and what effect it would have on gun violence if they were to be approved? Here are eight possibilities.
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There's some good and bad in that, I'll try to address as briefly as I can:
1. Close loopholes in background checks for gun sales
I honestly don't have a big problem with that...the problem I have again is it would have prevented few of these mass shootings. Ok, Dylann Roof, the example given, got a gun he shouldn't have. I can rattle off 10 or 20 others who either did or would have passed any background check, or got their guns from somebody who would have passed any background check. Background checks should not take longer than 72 hours...that is an administrative problem that should be corrected. Why? Because allowing long delays in processing is one way the government could potentially keep citizens from lawfully arming themselves. Maybe the limit should be 5 days or 10 days or a week, but there has to be a limit.
2. End the ban on federal funding for research into gun violence
Interesting, this bullet point says it's a ban on research, when the actual ban states "no funds made available in this title may be used, in whole or in part, to advocate or promote gun control". Research doesn't promote or advocate anything. It's collection of data. You're asking to eliminate a ban that doesn't exist. Now if you're talking about research done by special interest groups whose purpose is to battle the second amendment, that's a different story.
3. Make gun trafficking a federal crime
We already have laws against these things. Do you think the Columbine shooters' 18 year old friend would have been more deterred by a federal law than a state law from buying them guns? Would the feds have broken down Nancy Lanza's door and arrested her for buying her son a gun for a Christmas gift, if he hadn't shot anyone? How would the federal government even be able to enforce such a law, unless it was after the fact of a newsworthy incident? And again, the vast majority of these shooters pass background checks and buy their guns legally. This is about more federal control over guns, it's not about preventing anything.
4. Expand the ban on sales to domestic violence offenders
All for it. Once you've shown a documented propensity for violence, you have forfeited your rights. Wouldn't have prevented any of these mass shootings that I am aware of though.
5. Public places, campuses and corporations
People who are going to shoot up a bunch of folks and die in a blaze of glory doing it, obviously don't give a rat's *** that what they are doing is clearly illegal. All this ban does is eliminate any sliver of hope that a good guy might be able to prevent one of these attacks. Please explain to me how a gun ban in any particular place stops these mass shootings. James Holmes-"Well, I was going to shoot up a bunch of people in a theater but then I remembered that guns aren't allowed there! Oops!"
6. Restore the ban on assault weapons
I've already addressed this. Real "assault weapons", automatic weapons that fire many rounds with one trigger pull, are already banned. These shootings are being done with semi-automatic rifles and handguns, common and universal. The only difference is that the AR-15s and such look like military weapons. They function exactly the same as most other guns.
7. Regulate ammunition and magazines
Addressed this too. Many of these shooters carried multiple 10 round magazines. In fact it looks like James Holmes stopped because his 100 round magazine jammed. He may have killed more people with smaller magazines, we'll never know.
8. Waiting periods, training and registration
I do not have a problem with waiting periods or requiring training in order to purchase a gun. Neither of these would likely have stopped any of these shooters, many of whom either obtained their guns illegally or were well-versed enough in the use of guns that they could have passed any training course.
There's only one reason on earth for a federal gun registry...that is so the feds can track ownership and will know where the weapons are if they ever need to collect them. There is absolutely no other purpose for it.
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You are absolutely correct. Hence, the "Good luck with that" part. I suspect that when, and I do mean when, the government decides to do this, it will likely spark a civil war. Or at the very least a long spate of violent unrest.
I'll say it again- I went into a store the other day that allowed the customers to carry guns. (KS is now a state where everyone can carry). Lo and behold, nobody got shot and nobody had guns slung over his shoulder screaming about killing people. It was no different than a store that didn't allow weapons.
I'd sign off on making all purchases be made through an FFL, if we get nationwide conceal carry reciprocity.
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1. Close loopholes in background checks for gun sales
Utter Hogwash Criminals use the black market for their gun purchases. background checks are backdoor registration and registration ALWAYS resorts to eventual confiscation.
2. End the ban on federal funding for research into gun violence
Its actually Federal funding for gun control propaganda. We already know the problems behind gun violence: 1: The breakdown of the family. 2: Psychotropic drugs being handed out like candy.
3. Make gun trafficking a federal crime
It already is a federal crime to illegally sell a fire arm to a convicted felon and it is already a federal and state crime for a convicted felon to posses a fire arm.Lets work on enforcing the laws we have alreadyon criminals.
4. Expand the ban on sales to domestic violence offenders
Already a law and a bad one to boot. You are taking away a persons God Given right based on a misdemeanor crime. "Domestic Violence" has been stretched to the point where it means nothing and a man is guilty of it simply at the say so of a vindictive partner. Its not battery to the point of physical injury anymore it has quite literally become "Shout at your spouse and lose your house."
5. Public places, campuses and corporations
We already know that "Gun Free Zones" don't work. Never have and in fact are the preferred hunting grounds for mass shooters. Stop providing large pools of innocent victims and allow people to use their right to defend themselves.
6. Restore the ban on assault weapons
Most gun violence is perpetrated with a cheap handgun not "Assault weapons". This is a ploy to disarm the citizens and give the state a large monopoly on fire power.
7. Regulate ammunition and magazines
See number 6. As anyone that has watched a few videos of "inner city youths" playing the knockout game, rioters and black flash mobs can tell you, you do need more than 6-10 rounds to defend yourself.
8. Waiting periods, training and registration
You can't legally put restrictions on a right. Shall not be infringed is unequivocal language. Do you demand training, and a waiting period before someone can write a letter to the editor or post on the internet? Do you demand the registration of computers, tablets and smart phones? No because the right to free speech is inviolate. So is the right to keep and bear arms.
The point President Obama was making the other night...
That's because he picks and chooses what he defines as "terrorism". It's only terrorism when it's done by whitey. If it's a black person and/or Muslim, it's "workplace violence".
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Thanks DBS1970 and oneforthebus for your detailed and well-worded responses. So you both think everything that can be done is already being done to stop the recurring mass shootings around the country. Duly noted.
That's a great idea, because we all know that somebody who would shoot multiple people would NEVER break the law and steal the ammo, right? Good Lord, liberals are stupid!
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Not at all. I think the things in that article where dead wrong about fixing the situation. They are just more of the same. The solution is actually quite simple and involves just three things.
1 ) Fix the famlly. Stop paying inner city females to be baby factories and produce children that fall into street gangs to provide structure in their lives that they need but aren't getting at home,
2 ) Stop handing out mind altering medication for every little problem. There is a common thread in many of these shootings where an other wise normal person is placed on Zoloft,Paxil, Aderall or Prozac for some minor funk and then goes of the rails on a killing spree because these powerful drugs **** up their brain chemistry.
3 ) FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND ALL THAT IS HOLY, STOP PROVIDING LARGE POOLS OF UNARMED INNOCENT VICTIMS VIA "GUN FREE ZONES"! Stop preventing people from using their innate right to protect themselves with a weapon that is at least comparable to the one a potential attacker may use.
Don't think they said that. The inference I drew was that everything relating to the idea of enacting further legislation instead of enforcing current ones is not a good one and that there is much more that can be done. It just doesn't have to do with restricting the rights of lac's.
Gotta love it.......
Im no gun nut, but logically gun bans are completely worthless. statistically an area always sees a jump in homicides in the first few years and when that subsides the rates go back to where the were before, sometimes higher... Britain banned guns in 96 or 97... they had a growing problem until they all but doubled the police force in 03 or 04... they have at least put legislation up to ban sharp pointy knives....
The issue, IMO, is the culture in this country. The sexy murder tool du-jour right now is handguns, for the most part... the secondary murder weapon in the country is knives... somewhere down the list is "assult" rifles. If we take those away it will be bombs, or poison, or big rocks... we have bread a violent and irresponsible society and want easy fixes and treat the issue as a politically divisive tool rather than an actual problem that needs a complex and unified fix. Im sick of people acting like this is a conservative vs liberal issue... its an American problem that isn't going to be fixed by gun control and isn't unsolvable because other countries, both with and without gun laws, have much lower murder rates than we do.
The issue, IMO, is the culture in this country. The sexy murder tool du-jour right now is handguns, for the most part... the secondary murder weapon in the country is knives... somewhere down the list is "assult" rifles. If we take those away it will be bombs, or poison, or big rocks... we have bread a violent and irresponsible society and want easy fixes and treat the issue as a politically divisive tool rather than an actual problem that needs a complex and unified fix. Im sick of people acting like this is a conservative vs liberal issue... its an American problem that isn't going to be fixed by gun control and isn't unsolvable because other countries, both with and without gun laws, have much lower murder rates than we do.
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Nope, that is a complete mischaracterization of my views. As I've already stated we need to target the source. It's a very small number of people who do this, and it seems they would be fairly easy to identify if we were paying attention. Targeting their motivations rather than trying to keep any and all weapons out of their hands makes much more sense. I would start at the elementary school level intensively working with socially isolated kids and teaching other kids to be more inclusive and supportive. As a parent of a kid who has struggled at times with some social and emotional issues (although not anger or propensity for violence) I can tell you that our understanding of and treatment for psychological issues is WOEFULLY inadequate. It's basically, fill out a bunch of questionnaires, oh sorry, you don't fit into one of our neat diagnoses, here's some drugs you can try, if those don't work here's some others, if you don't want to do that sorry you're on your own, we've got nothing more to offer you. "Therapy" is a joke. These kids need mentors and peers in their everyday lives who will care about them, support them and make them feel like life isn't something that's only for other people, not for them.
I would study the impact of psychotropic drugs and how we mitigate that.
I would give medical professionals and parents greater power to compel young adults to get treatment. Right now unless you can unequivocally prove that someone is an immediate danger to themselves or others, you can't make them do anything. Proving that is virtually impossible.
I have never said there is nothing more we can do. What I have said is we shouldn't just pass laws that won't help, take away rights of self-defense away from law abiding citizens and ignore the root causes of this problem just so we can say we "did something". People who want to kill others and don't mind dying to do it do not care what gun laws you put into place.