Today in mass shootings
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The worst thing beyond the obvious tragedy of the killings is how it becomes this big political thing every time this happens. And so long as the polarized politics of soft left wing liberal vs. Redneck conservative happens there can never be a solution to these types of very complex problems. If it's just going to be a bunch of rhetoric on both sides you can expect this **** to go on forever. When politics becomes your like your sports team you got a big problem.
The campus was gun free. It's an over 100 acre campus, with ONE security guard. Armed with MACE. So tell me again how gun free zones work?
FWIW- I went into a local store yesterday that allowed guns. Amazingly, nobody got shot or killed. Funny how that works.
FWIW- I went into a local store yesterday that allowed guns. Amazingly, nobody got shot or killed. Funny how that works.
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Watched Obama's angry and combative remarks last night and have to say I agree with him 100%. It's about time there's a pushback against the NRA and its supporters. No sane person would possibly be against common sense gun laws. No sane person would disagree something needs to be done. No sane person would allow themselves to be brainwashed by the tired, stale talking points of the far-right on gun control. It is the elephant in the room, and will continue to be with each mass shooting. How long till the next one, till a further group of innocent people lose their lives? At the rate we're going...we won't have to wait too long.
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So what law do you favor that would have prevented this or other shootings? We don't know much about this guy but Adam Lanza's guns were bought by his mother who would have passed any background check. Columbine shooters got their guns illegally through a friend who would have passed any background check. Exactly what is the "something" that must be done with regards to gun control?
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I don't have any answers oneforthebus. It's not my role or duty to figure that out. But I do know that that current trend of complete inaction by federal and state legislators is incorrect. As are the exaggerated and embelished talking points of the NRA. I say let them implement what Obama calls "modest gun regulations" and see what happens. What is there to lose? Decent, law-abiding gun owners wouldn't be affected at all. Yes, hardened criminals would probably still be able to get guns, no doubt. But maybe, just maybe it has an affect and reduces gun deaths and mass shootings overall. For that one reason only, it's worth trying. But no, to the far right that's "communist-facist-socialist-devil-worship" the second any form of gun control is brought up. And I think that's just dumb and backwards and self-defeating as anything currently happening in our society. And I don't understand conservatives, at all, for not wanting to do something positive regarding this issue, to help fix what is clearly a problem. Or at least trying to do something about it. Does the NRA truly have every single Republican in their back pocket? Is that much hard cash being doled out? Has corruption and special interest groups literally taken over the GOP? Regarding this issue, it sure seems that way.
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"More to the point, it's not like people say, 'Well, some guy stuck a knife to my throat and robbed me, but I still had a good day because he didn't use a gun.' The issue is less about gun crime than about crime in general. When you only look at the negative side of guns, then by definition you're ignoring the protective effect that guns have. We're only looking at the harms. And that's being willfully blind. Guns in the right hands help public safety. Guns in the wrong hands harm public safety."
It depends what the crime you're prosecuting for is. Is the local DA pretty tough on a guy who brings a gun and holds up at 711, then I would think that would have good crime suppressive effects, to the extent that his circle of acquaintances learns about him, it might make some of them more hesitant about robbing the 711 themselves with a gun.
"One of the things I think we have to look at is the concept of opportunity cost in some of this, the idea that if you are devoting your resources to micromanaging honest citizens who happen to want to buy guns, you're not spending your criminal justice resources going after professional criminals. So the individual regulatory regime in isolation may be good, may be bad, but one of the questions you have to ask is, is this the best use of our criminal justice resources, or should we be spending our resources on professional criminals who are repeat violent offenders, who use guns and who are the ones who drive up the homicide rate?"
Then we have our totally clueless politicians out there piling on the vitriol
"Vice President Joe Biden is predicting investigators will find that a semi-automatic or automatic weapon was used in the Oregon college shooting. The vice president is renewing his call for what describes as "sane gun legislation." He says the Second Amendment doesn't allow someone to own a bazooka."
It depends what the crime you're prosecuting for is. Is the local DA pretty tough on a guy who brings a gun and holds up at 711, then I would think that would have good crime suppressive effects, to the extent that his circle of acquaintances learns about him, it might make some of them more hesitant about robbing the 711 themselves with a gun.
"One of the things I think we have to look at is the concept of opportunity cost in some of this, the idea that if you are devoting your resources to micromanaging honest citizens who happen to want to buy guns, you're not spending your criminal justice resources going after professional criminals. So the individual regulatory regime in isolation may be good, may be bad, but one of the questions you have to ask is, is this the best use of our criminal justice resources, or should we be spending our resources on professional criminals who are repeat violent offenders, who use guns and who are the ones who drive up the homicide rate?"
Then we have our totally clueless politicians out there piling on the vitriol
"Vice President Joe Biden is predicting investigators will find that a semi-automatic or automatic weapon was used in the Oregon college shooting. The vice president is renewing his call for what describes as "sane gun legislation." He says the Second Amendment doesn't allow someone to own a bazooka."
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Because nobody ever lies on the internet......just Sayin.
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So you favor the federal government passing laws for no other reason than to say we "did something", to make people feel better. I don't believe in governing that way. We already have modest gun regulations in most places. There are no background checks or or registries or bans on certain types of weapons or anything else that logic would tell you would prevent these shootings. People who want guns and aren't afraid to break the law and/or die are going to get them. The only thing that would prevent them is the government banning all guns and then collecting up all the guns in circulation. Then you'd still have people making bombs out of crockpots.
What's to lose? I mean, you have to look at the history of the second amendment to understand what we have to lose. You also take away the only chance people might have at defending themselves against someone like this. If one law abiding person at that school had a gun maybe some lives could have been saved. One teacher packing at Sandy Hook and maybe some lives could have been saved. Guns have been banned from those places of course, and the element of surprise favors the shooter anyway, I understand that, but at least they have a sliver of a chance. I don't have guns and don't trust myself enough to have them, but I'm not going to take the basic right to defend themselves away from anyone else.
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I'll post it again. Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
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When these nutjobs go kablooey I wish they's do it somewhere other than schools with innocent kids. Like at a mosque or a liberal think tank.
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Why do you think they choose schools? They know there won't be anyone there with a gun.
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Now please name me the mass shooting that could have been prevented by gun laws...and which laws those might be...
https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/01/obama-talks-earnestly-of-simple-laws-tha
https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/01/obama-talks-earnestly-of-simple-laws-tha
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Bull ****! Where did you come up with that. Every time an armed citizen stops a crime with their gun it could have prevented a mass murder. Their is no way you can prove that statement.
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Oregon shooter targeted Christians
https://twitter.com/search?q=Oregon...&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^search
https://twitter.com/search?q=Oregon...&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^search
that's the problem.
people want something done, but refuse to say what.
background checks? we have those. ever tried to get past one?
ex-felons can not own weapons. they can after a period of time, but that takes a lot of work and commitment on the part of the ex-felon.
does anyone even know the number of firearm laws we have on the books now?
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/national-firearms-act-handbook
click around... we have a metric **** ton of laws already on the books.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
while we know that guns are involved in mass shootings, obviously, there can also be something more. psychiatric drugs?
http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html
(NaturalNews) The following is a republishing of an important article written by Dan Roberts from AmmoLand.com. It reveals the real truth about mass shootings that bureaucrats and lawmakers are choosing to sweep under the rug: psychiatric drugs. If you want to know the real reason why mass shootings are taking place, this is the "inconvenient truth" the media won't cover.
As part of a collective grassroots effort to defend the Bill of Rights against usurpers and tyrants, Natural News is republishing this article without asking for permission first. When it comes to fighting tyrants and defending liberty, the unstated agreement across the entire liberty-loving grassroots community is, "Use our articles; help spread the word!" Every article I write here on Natural News, for example, may be reprinted with credit and a link back to the original source article on NaturalNews.com.
Here's the full article by Dan Roberts:
(Ammoland.com) Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and it's not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Multiple credible scientific studies going back more than a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves. www.ssristories.com is one popular site that has documented over 4500 " Mainstream Media " reported cases from around the World of aberrant or violent behavior by those taking these powerful drugs.
The following list of mass shooting perpetrators and the drugs they were taking or had been taking shortly before their horrific actions was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks just days before he was mysteriously killed in a single car accident. Is there a link between Noveske's death and his "outting" of information numerous disparate parties would prefer to suppress, for a variety of reasons?
I leave that to the individual readers to decide. But there is most certainly a documented history of people who "knew too much" or were considered a "threat" dying under extraordinarily suspicious circumstances.
From Katherine Smith, a Tennessee DMV worker who was somehow involved with several 9/11 hijackers obtaining Tennessee Drivers Licenses, and was later found burned to death in her car, to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Webb, who exposed a CIA Operation in the 80's that resulted in the flooding of LA Streets with crack cocaine and was later found dead from two gunshot wounds to the head, but was officially ruled as a "suicide", to Frank Olson, a senior research micro biologist who was working on the CIA's mind control research program MKULTRA.
After Olson expressed his desire to leave the program, he was with a CIA agent in a New York hotel room, and is alleged to have committed "suicide" by throwing himself off the tenth floor balcony. In 1994, Olson's sons were successful in their efforts to have their fathers body exhumed and re examined in a second autopsy by James Starrs, Professor of Law and Forensic science at the National Law Center at George Washington University. Starr's team concluded that the blunt force trauma to the head and injury to the chest had not occurred during the fall but most likely in the room before the fall. The evidence was called "rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide." Based on his findings, in 1996 the Manhattan District Attorney opened a homicide investigation into Olson's death, but was unable to find enough evidence to bring charges.
As I said, I leave it to the individual readers to make up their own minds if Noveske suffered a similar fate. On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.
• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
• Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
• Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
• Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
• Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
• Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
• Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
• Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
• Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
• Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
• Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
• A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
• Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
• Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
• Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
• Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
• Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
• Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
• What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
• What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?
• What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
• What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?
Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.
Don't let them! Force our elected "representatives" and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don't stop hounding them until they do.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who already jump through hoops to own a gun.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who store their weapons securely.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who practice gun safety.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who have guns to protect themselves and their families.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who are disgusted with the news of mass shootings.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who arm themselves because society in general is ******.
it's NOT the fault of the lawful gun owners who value life itself and would not take it unless their own were in danger.
it IS the fault of criminals and their desire to be the next Scarface and quest for fleeting popularity.
focus on the criminals and not the lawful gun owners.
what makes these criminals do what they do? how do we resolve that?
Well duh, what's the law of averages on that.
On October 9, the Crime Prevention Research Center (CPRC) released a revised report showing that 92% of mass public shootings between January 2009 and July 2014 took place in gun-free zones.
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. In a way, this is no surprise. If there's someone present with a gun when a mass shooting begins, the shooter is likely to be shot himself. And, in fact, many mass shootings — from the high school shooting by Luke Woodham in Pearl, Miss., to the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, Colo., where an armed volunteer shot the attacker — have been terminated when someone retrieved a gun from a car or elsewhere and confronted the shooter.
Given that gun-free zones seem to be a magnet for mass shooters, maybe we should be working to shrink or eliminate them, rather than expand them. As they say, if it saves just one life, it's worth it.
So in other words when there is a Republican President there are less mass shootings?
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We have averaged 90 gun deaths a day for quite awhile now, so that is like 9 of these a day. These cluster ones just get all the attention.
But 80 of those are in Chicago where guns are not allowed.
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http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...un-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/
This is the only study I could find that shows the reason we have more gun deaths than any other nation. They compare
guns per capita with gun deaths per capita. The evidence shows that the more guns in circulation per capita, the higher
the gun death rate per capita will be. If you want to reduce the rate of gun deaths per capita, then you have to reduce the
number of guns in circulation per capita.
It turns out it is the guns fault. It doesn't matter if its legal or illegal, its the existence of the gun that is the problem.
This is the only study I could find that shows the reason we have more gun deaths than any other nation. They compare
guns per capita with gun deaths per capita. The evidence shows that the more guns in circulation per capita, the higher
the gun death rate per capita will be. If you want to reduce the rate of gun deaths per capita, then you have to reduce the
number of guns in circulation per capita.
It turns out it is the guns fault. It doesn't matter if its legal or illegal, its the existence of the gun that is the problem.
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Here's the perfect example
Good Guy With A Gun Shoots Carjacking Victim In Head, Runs Away Before Police Arrive
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/0...in-head-runs-away-before-police-arrive-video/